Pre 1800 Lincolnshire baptism conundrum

[Glen TK]

1841 Census, John Chambers born in county aged 40

1851 Lincoln Union Workhouse, John Chambers, born Tattershall aged 63

Nov 25th 1852 Death cert Lincoln Union Workhouse. John Chambers aged 64, informant was the workhouse master.


I've found two baptisms for Tattershall in the right name;

29 May 1791 to Robert and Mary

05 Jan 1783 to Thomas and Elizabeth


The earlier one seems too early based on census and death cert, his oldest daughter was called Elizabeth but none of his other children have the names from the baptisms.

Any thoughts?

[kiterunner]

Have you checked for burials, Glen?

[Glen TK]

Nothing in the name for Tattershall in burials or baptisms around the timeframe.

I was going to check for possible children to the two couples above and maybe find they moved around but the IGI is down now.

[kiterunner]

Do you have any info from your John Chambers' marriage, Glen?

[Glen TK]

Yeah sorry, I thought I'd posted it though it's not detailed;

25 Nov 1828
Wragby, Lincolnshire
Spouse Ann Chambers

[ElizabethHerts]

Glen, are you sure it's not your computer that is causing all these problems? Family Search is working fine for me and I use FMP every day, often for long periods, without any problems.

[kiterunner]

That marriage comes up in FMP's Lincolnshire Marriage Index as taking place in the parish of Rand, not Wragby, and it is in their Rand PR images, luckily, as the Wragby marriage images for that period don't seem to be on either FMP or Lincs to the Past.

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record/browse?id=gbprs%2flincs%2frand_par_1_4%2f0188

John Chambers of the parish of Applay, bachelor, and Ann Chambers OTP, spinster, by banns, both make their mark, witnesses William Robinson and John Brewer.

[kiterunner]

Glen, are you sure it's not your computer that is causing all these problems? Family Search is working fine for me and I use FMP every day, often for long periods, without any problems.

FamilySearch was definitely down earlier, Elizabeth, though it's back now, and there are a lot of messages posted on FMP's Facebook page about problems this weekend, presumably due to the free access offer.

[kiterunner]

Glen, please can you post a link or more details for the 1841 census entry?

[Glen TK]

I think the household was on two images, wife Ann being first on the page, St Swithin's Parish in Lincoln.

FMP doesn't have any Chambers results for them in '41.


Details from the image I have got for Ann;
Ann aged 30
William 15
Eliza 7
Joseph 5
Louisa 3

[kiterunner]

Thanks, Glen. So this is the 1841 census entry on ancestry:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/LINHO107_651_653-0292/6899303?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1841%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_db%2 6new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsf n%3dlouis*%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln_x%3d1%26msbdy%3d183 8%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msrpn__ftp_x% 3d1%26msypn__ftp_x%3d1%26gskw%3dswithin%26gskw_x%3 d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=LINHO107_65 1_653-0291

Flaxen Gate, St Swithins, Lincoln
John Chambers 35 Labourer Y
Ann Chambers 30 Y
William Chambers 15 Labourer Y
Eliza Do 7 Y
Joseph Do 5 Y
Louisa Do 3 Y

HO107 / 651 / 21 folio 22 page 8

There is a Robert Chambers age 20, Cab m, Y, at the top of the preceding page.
I can't find these pages on FMP.

[kiterunner]

And this is the 1851 census entry that you mentioned:
1851 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/LINHO107_2105_2105-0486/9965491?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1851%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_db%2 6new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsf n%3dlou*%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dchamb*%26gsln_x%3d1 %26msbdy%3d1838%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d2%26msbpn_ _ftp_x%3d1%26msrpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msypn__ftp_x%3d1%2 6msfng_x%3d1%26msfns_x%3d1%26msmng_x%3d1%26msmns_x %3d1%26msbng0_x%3d1%26mssng0_x%3d1%26mssns0_x%3d1% 26mscng0_x%3d1%26gskw%3dlinc*%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV% 3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

Lincoln Union Workhouse, Saint Peter in Eastgate, Lincoln
John Chambers Pauper "Head" Mar 63 Bricklayer's Labourer Lincs Tattershall
Henry Chambers Do "Son" U 19 Labourer Lincoln City
George Chambers Do "Son" 9 Scholar at Home Lincoln City
Louisa Chambers Do "Daugt" 11 Lincoln City

[kiterunner]

Presume this is Henry Chambers in 1841:

1841 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/LINHO107_651_653-0075/6893096?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1841%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_db%2 6new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsf n%3dh*r*y%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dch%253fm*%26gsln_x %3d1%26msbdy%3d1832%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d2%26ms bpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msrpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msypn__ftp_x%3 d1%26gskw%3dlinc*%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3 dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
Age 9, at Christ's Hospital / Blue Coat School in Lincoln.

[kiterunner]

Okay, and here is the rest of the family in 1851 (I realise you will already have all these, Glen, but just to help us try to trace John back)
1851 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/LINHO107_2105_2106-0168/9970978?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1851%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_r_db %26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3djos* %26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dch%253fm*%26gsln_x%3d1%26ms bdy%3d1836%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d5%26msbpn__ftp_ x%3d1%26msrpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msypn__ftp_x%3d1%26msfn g_x%3d1%26msfns_x%3d1%26msmng_x%3d1%26msmns_x%3d1% 26msbng0_x%3d1%26mssng0_x%3d1%26mssns0_x%3d1%26msc ng0_x%3d1%26gskw%3dlinc*%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%2 6uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
Ann Chambers Head Mar 50 Laundress Lincolnshire Wragby
William Do Son U 28 Mason's Laborer Do Minting
Eliza Do Dau U 17 House Servant Do Lincoln
Joseph Do Son U 14 Errand Boy Do Do
Charlotte Do Dau 3 Do Do

[kiterunner]

William Chambers' baptism is on FreeREG2: 30 May 1824 at Minting, William, bastard son of Ann Chambers, singlewoman.

[kiterunner]

The 1871 census has a John Chambers age 93, born Tattershall, farmer of 51 acres, living at Bardney, Lincolnshire, with a wife Jane.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/LINRG10_3365_3369-0373/3211007?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1871%26so%3d2%26pcat%3d35% 26gss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn_x%3d1 %26gsln%3dch%253fmb*%26gsln_x%3d1%26mswpn__ftp%3dL incolnshire%252c%2bEngland%26mswpn%3d5273%26mswpn_ PInfo%3d7-%257c0%257c0%257c3257%257c3251%257c0%257c0%257c0%2 57c5273%257c0%257c0%257c%26mswpn__ftp_x%3d1%26mswp n_x%3d1%26gskw%3dtat*h*l*%26gskw_x%3d1%26_83004002 _x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26catbucket%3drstp%26M SAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

Could he be the one baptised in 1783? There is a John Chambers death Jul-Sep 1875 Lincoln, age 98. Bardney was in Lincoln district. Could be nobody was sure of his exact age?

[kiterunner]

John and Jane in Bardney have children named Thomas and Elizabeth (among others) on the 1841 census:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/LINHO107_627_628-0035/6696445?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1841%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_r_db %26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3djane %26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dch%253fm*%26gsln_x%3d1%26ms bdy%3d1786%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d10%26msbpn__ftp _x%3d1%26msrpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msypn__ftp_x%3d1%26gsk w%3dlinc*%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[Glen TK]

The ages for John and Ann jump wildly in the 41 and 51. I'm pretty sure the 52 death cert is his as the only other John death I found matches a newspaper report for a youth who died in a village outside of Lincoln and the John you found at Bardney, again reported in newspapers of the time.

Part of my problem is the Chambers/Chambers marriage is one of three in my tree, two are interfamily and link back to Wragby/Barlings, the only one that doesn't seem to be interfamily is John/Ann in 1828 and there's only the two census and death cert for him.

Althoughnthere are odd bits around Tattershall there isn't much for the surname so maybe he wasn't baptised there anyway? I just can't think what else to do to narrow down the place/timeframe.

[Glen TK]

William Chambers' baptism is on FreeREG2: 30 May 1824 at Minting, William, bastard son of Ann Chambers, singlewoman.

Also Frederick c1821 and Elizabeth c1827 , neither appear in the 1841 and I suspect they both died as infants, as there was Eliza in 1834 that seems to add to Elizabeth 1827 not surviving. Not that it helps find John.

[kiterunner]

Something which probably won't help, but to save others going down the same road:
William Chambers baptised 22 Sep 1810 St Swithin, Lincoln, parents Robert Chambers and Mary Hardy. Robert Chambers married Mary Hardy 1 Feb 1798 Worksop Priory (Nottinghamshire). FreeREG2 shows that this Robert Chambers was a bachelor, of Tuxford.

So the Robert and Mary who had a son John baptised in 1791 at Tattershall are not the same couple as the parents of William 1810.

[kiterunner]

There is another Robert and Mary couple who had a daughter Elizabeth baptised 16 Sep 1781 at Langton by Wragby. They could be Robert Chambers and Mary Johnson who got married 30 Jun 1781 at Fiskerton. FreeREG2 has this Robert down as a bachelor, of Scampton. But if they are the same couple as the parents of John baptised 1791, there should be some more children in between Elizabeth and John. You could try going through all the Chambers baptisms in the Lincolnshire surname browse on FMP to see whether any have parents Robert and Mary?

[Glen TK]

That's interesting.


One thing I've noticed is the illegitimate children Ann had seem to share the forenames of their ancestors, once she married John there is only really Eliza that does, the rest of them are "new" names, unless of course they used names associated with John. Not knowing names of siblings and parents is a problem trying to prove/disprove whether there is a naming pattern though.

Siblings of Ann are far more likely to name children after their ancestors and often retain a maiden name as a middle name somewhere too.


I suspect John comes from a family of ag labs or suchlike but it's a very common surname in the county.