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Any ideas what the name "Lacey" (male) might be short for or derived from?
I have a Lacey Turner who married twice but doesn't appear to have been born or died.
Thanks
kiterunner
18-09-15, 14:06
Could be taken from a family surname, perhaps given to him as a middle name. But of course then he should appear in the records. Do you want to give us more info so we can look for him, Terri?
Thanks Kate, but I have almost no information! His wife was called Margaret Clift, born c 1909, probably Surrey, daughter of Eleanor Clift (no father) and coincidentally, Margaret doesn't seem to have been born either!
Neither Lacey nor Margaret show on 1911 census but they married in Surrey in 1930, both remarrying in 1940's.
Is Margaret's mother the Eleanor Clift born in Esher in 1878, father John and sister Ada (amongst others)?
kiterunner
18-09-15, 16:51
Margaret is listed as Peggy on the 1930 electoral register, if that's any help.
If I'm looking at the right Eleanor, she is with her parents in 1881 and 1891 and is Ellen Clift servant in 1901. Always says b Esher. Cant find her in 1911.
I wondered if she was living with a man as his wife and the dau, Margaret (Peggy), was going by his name in 1911 (and registered in his name) but the relationship broke down and Eleanor and Marg reverted to the name Clift? Having the idea hasn't helped though!
Eleanor died in 1957 still single (mentioned her sister Ada in the probate entry)
Do we know Margaret's second married surname? I was wondering if we could find her death and it might give a dob.
kiterunner
18-09-15, 17:16
There are some male Lacey Turners in the USA but if he was American, I don't know whether he would be on the UK electoral register (and he was). Shame we don't have his father's name etc from one of the marriage certs.
If Lacey Turner was from the USA, he could still appear on the electoral register, but his franchise would be limited to local elections (I think!).
Sorry I had to go out. The name McFarland/McFarlane has been bandied about within the family as potential father for Margaret, but with no information whatsoever on him, or even if he actually existed.
Her second marriage was to a Herbert Brewer, about 1945 or 47 I think. She died 1981? (not got the notes to hand)
All the other info you have supplied is correct. Margaret stayed in the area all her life as far as can be told.
Thanks for looking too x
PS Lacey remarries to Celia Honey in Portsmouth. I did wonder if they emigrated from there.
kiterunner
18-09-15, 18:18
If Margaret is the Margaret Brewer who died Oct-Dec 1981 Surrey NW, then the death index gives her DOB as 20 Dec 1908 (the death index page on FMP is clearer than on ancestry.) But I couldn't find a matching birth.
kiterunner
18-09-15, 18:19
Anyway, the 1939 Register is supposed to go online by the end of this year, so hopefully they will be on that and it will give you more info.
She is a flamin mystery! Thanks so much for looking anyway. I'm having a fight with fmp at the moment. Making the most of the free weekend, lol
I wonder if he could be going by a middle name? There is an Ancestry record for a Mr Lacey F Turner and Mrs Celia Turner arriving in Freemantle, Australia, on 13 June 1963.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/5378/32704_334745-00279?pid=1509053&backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f%2fcg i-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3dauswestpassengerl ists%26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3dlacey%26gsfn_x%3dN N%26gsln%3dturner%26gsln_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26mssng0 _x%3d1%26cp%3d0%26catbucket%3drstp%26uidh%3dfpy%26 pcat%3d40%26fh%3d0%26h%3d1509053%26recoff%3d6%2b8% 26ml_rpos%3d1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true
Lacey Frederick Turner appears on a number of Australian Electoral Rolls - all Victoria. In 1968, he was in Geelong West. Then in 1972, he was in Geelong North. I found him in 1977 in Ballan and then in Ballarat East in 1980. He was a shopkeeper. I had a look at 1972 and Celia is also listed. Middle name Marie. http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1207/33112_202690__0031-00074/88471609?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dauselectoralrolls%26so%3d2%26 pcat%3dROOT_CATEGORY%26gss%3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3dlacey%26gsfn_x%3dN N%26gsln%3dturner%26gsln_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26cpxt%3 d1%26cp%3d2%26catbucket%3drstp%26uidh%3dfpy&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
That sounds extremely hopeful, Shona.. I don't have a world sub, so can't search the Australian records. :o
.......and the UK outward passenger lists only go up to 1960!
Frederick Lacey Turner seems to have died in Victoria in 1987.
His father's name was recorded as Albert Turner and his mother Kate surname unknown (I haven't examined whether they had middle names recorded).
I couldn't find a death for Celia Marie.
The above info hasn't helped me to find Fred in 1911. I suppose he could have been born just after the census, but having looked at the possibilities I still got nowhere!
Thanks girls, you are working wonders here! I almost knew he had emigrated to Oz, but I didn't have his parents' names. xx
The informant might be wrong about those names! I did notice his wife's details are not on his death entry. Maybe they were divorced?
I just realised you can try place of birth on the death index entry, so I tried England and that was accepted, so I tried London and that worked too.
So that's brought me back to this one again!
Births Jun 1912
Turner Frederick L Webb Kensington 1a 175
But he would only be 18 at his first marriage. Maybe he didn't have his middle name at birth?
There's Albert Edward and Frances Kate Turner in Kensington in 1911. They are both 40, married 20 years and have three children, the youngest of which is 10. At the moment I can't make her maiden name Webb. They have a son called Albert too (Albert Francis aged 18)
Kate, do those Oz records give any indication of when Lacey was born, or where?? Still can't find him in England, nor an Albert and Kate Turner of the right age-ish
The Oz records I looked at didn't give place of birth. Boo!
Well he'd divorced once, so wouldn't surprise me
The Oz records I looked at didn't give place of birth. Boo!
Thanks for looking anyway Shona, had a feeling we weren't going to be that lucky
The place of birth on his death record was London England. But it may not be correct.
Have to go out for a bit now, but I have a few to follow up:
A Frederick L Turner born Kensington in 1912
An Albert Edward Turner and Frances Kate, born Devon, but living in Kensington in 1911. Long shot I know!
Edit, ooh Merry I hope it is correct! Makes this long shot slightly less long!
I cant decide which is their marriage (possibly to eliminate them, and which Frances Kate b in Newton Abbot is Mrs Turner) or which Turner/Webb marriage might belong to the boy b in 1912 if it's a different couple (and if it's a second marriage for the wife then it could be very tricky!)
I have to go out soon too!
Thanks Merry, I too was trying to get a Frances/Kate/Webb/Turner marriage to fit too.
I was wondering about America. If Margaret wasn't registered (in this country) and neither her nor her mother seem to be here in 1911, could they have left the country? There seem to be a number of Lacey Turners in the US (though they could be girls). Have just found Eleanor's brother George dying in NY in 1971.
Also there is in Esher in 1911 an Arthur Clift, born in America. So I have no evidence that he is any relation, but Clift isn't the commonest name, so it seemed a bit of a coincidence.
Really grabbing at straws now
To find the needle in the haystack, you have to grab a few straws, Terri!
Another Q.... If Fred L Turner b 1912 is the same person as Lacey Turner who married Marg Clift, isn't it wrong that he appears on the electoral rolls in 1930 when at best he would have been 18? (I had imagined people wouldn't appear until they were 21, but don't know if that's correct? My son filled up an e-roll form the other day because he has turned 16)
Another Q.... If Fred L Turner b 1912 is the same person as Lacey Turner who married Marg Clift, isn't it wrong that he appears on the electoral rolls in 1930 when at best he would have been 18? (I had imagined people wouldn't appear until they were 21, but don't know if that's correct? My son filled up an e-roll form the other day because he has turned 16)
I reckon that's true Merry. I think we might have to dump that straw. Had a search for Lacey in the US, but they all seem to be female. Obviously there are probably hundreds of Frederick Turners, and with no birth date he is impossible to pin down. But I couldn't find any sign of Margaret or Eleanor there either.
This is really starting to get on my nerves now!! :mad: Talk about elusive!
And remember, his death informant thought he was English! As he lived here probably into his 50s (Shona's passenger list find) he might well have retained his accent whilst living in Oz.
kiterunner
19-09-15, 16:17
Do we know for sure that the Lacey who married Celia is the same one who married Margaret?
Yes Kate, as sure as we can possibly be.
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