Elizabeth Lanning [Archive] - Genealogists' Forum

Phoenix

14-09-15, 18:32

This is Elizabeth's marriage: http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31280_194684-00196/5823271?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dlmamarriages%26so%3d2%26pcat% 3d34%26gss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsfn%3de%253bli zabeth%26gsln%3dlanning%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d4%26MSAV %3d0%26uidh%3d9vh&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

By 1861, she is a widow with a small son. One small son, born about 1854.

In 1841, Elizabeth is aged 14, in her father's household. She has vanished in 1851.

William Matthews is more elusive. I don't have the birth certificate of his son, to know where the family were in 1854. I don't have William's age at marriage, or a more positive address than St Marylebone.

When William's only known son marries in 1875, he continues to insist that his father is a jeweller.

Can anyone find any reference to William Matthews in 1851, a jeweller, or his father John, also a jeweller?

I don't actually know whether William died before 1861, or simply parted with Elizabeth.

Phoenix

14-09-15, 18:33

The witnesses, by the way, to Elizabeth Lanning's marriage are her father and step mother

Merry

14-09-15, 21:40

This is from the 1851 census on fmp. His father is John, but John is a journeyman carpenter:

William Matthews Son Unmarried Male 19 1832 Jeweller Apprentice b Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England

kiterunner

14-09-15, 21:52

Merry

14-09-15, 21:57

Hmmmmmm...that William seems to be still alive and married to Jane (Moss?) in 1861. I can't find a marriage though, so perhaps the right man?

kiterunner

14-09-15, 22:01

Is this the 1861 entry for Elizabeth and her son that you referred to, please, Phoenix?

1861 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/SRYRG9_332_335-0348/6161373?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1861%26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn_x%3d1 %26gsln%3dmat*w*%26gsln_x%3d1%26msbdy%3d1855%26msb dy_x%3d1%26msbpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msrpn__ftp_x%3d1%26m sypn__ftp_x%3d1%26msfng_x%3d1%26msfns_x%3d1%26msmn g%3deli*%26msmng_x%3d1%26msmns_x%3d1%26msbng0_x%3d 1%26mssng0_x%3d1%26mssns0_x%3d1%26mscng0_x%3d1%26_ 83004003-n_xcl%3df%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5%26gl%3d%26gst%3d %26hc%3d10%26fh%3d30%26fsk%3dBEEGZmYIgAAiPwCm7Ow-61-&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

The son's name just happens to match the name of the man above their family!

51 Pitt St, St George Southwark
Mary A Anderson Head Un 33 Licensed Dealer Devon Plymouth
-
George Parker Head Mar 40 House Painter Surrey Croydon
-
Elizabeth Matthews Head W 45 Keeper of a Mangle Middx N K
George W Do Son 6 Scholar Surrey Southwark
Martha Culver Visitor Un 17 Domestic Servant N K Royden
-
William Idfrey Head Mar 37 Deal Porter Sussex Hastings
Jane Do Wife Mar 36 Wilts Littleton

kiterunner

14-09-15, 22:14

This is the son's marriage and his father is William Matthews, jeweller. None of the fathers on the page are down as deceased so it could just be that the vicar didn't ask:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31280_194611-00391/1846061?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

Merry

15-09-15, 06:11

The one I found is probably a red herring as I've now found the marriage:

Marriages Mar 1856
Mathews William Islington 1b 213
Moss Jane Elizabeth Islington 1b 213

The LMA entry shows his father to be John, carpenter.

kiterunner

15-09-15, 08:05

Elizabeth's birthplace on the 1871 census is Marylebone, so we know what to look for in 1851.

Phoenix

15-09-15, 09:51

Yes, the Pitt Street address is the correct entry, Kite. The Lannings yo-yoed across the Thames and members did live in Pitt Street at various times. I suspect George Parker is a coincidence as they move about London on a regular basis.

The Jane Moss marriage is interesting - I must check the signatures!

Phoenix

15-09-15, 17:45

Noting this for reference: the marriage of a George Matthews, son of John, silversmith:

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31280_195178-00030/2533434?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dLMAmarriages%26gss%3dsfs28_ms _r_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3dgeorge%26gsln% 3dmatthews%26mssng0%3dsusanna%26MSAV%3d0%26uidh%3d 9vh&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

kiterunner

15-09-15, 18:02

This is George and Susannah in 1861:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/MDXRG9_47_48-0179/240260?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1861%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_db%2 6new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsf n%3dgeo*%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dmat*w*%26gsln_x%3d1 %26msbpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msrpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msypn__ft p_x%3d1%26msfng_x%3d1%26msfns_x%3d1%26msmng_x%3d1% 26msmns_x%3d1%26msbng0_x%3d1%26mssng0%3dsus*%26mss ng0_x%3d1%26mssns0_x%3d1%26mscng0_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2 %26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

1 Coburg Terrace, St John Westminster
George Matthews Head Mar 47 Jeweller St Martins
Susannah Do Wife Do 22 St Anns Oxford St

kiterunner

15-09-15, 18:09

This is George's baptism:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1558/31281_A101972-00006/925298?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dlmabirths%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dR OOT_CATEGORY%26gss%3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsfn%3dgeo*%26g sfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dmat*w*%26gsln_x%3d1%26mswpn__ft p_x%3d1%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d5%26MSAV%3d2%26MS_ AdvCB%3d1%26msbdy%3d1814%26msbpn__ftp_x%3d1%26gskw %3dmart*n*%26gskw_x%3d1%26_83004002_x%3d1%26cpxt%3 d1%26cp%3d11%26catbucket%3drstp&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

St Martin Ludgate, City of London
30 May 1813 George, parents John & Elizabeth Mathews, 3 Horse Shoe Court, Ludgate Hill, Silver Smith.

kiterunner

15-09-15, 18:14

And there is a William baptised at the same church 27 Jan 1811, parents John and Elizabeth but father's occupation isn't shown:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1624/31281_A101974-00102/7546650?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dLMAearlyparish%26gss%3dsfs28_ ms_r_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn %3dwil*%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dmat*w*%26gsln_x%3d1% 26msbdy%3d1803%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d10%26msbpn_ _ftp_x%3d1%26msdpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msgpn__ftp_x%3d1%2 6msypn__ftp_x%3d1%26msfng%3djohn%26msfng_x%3d1%26m sfns_x%3d1%26msmng%3deli*%26msmng_x%3d1%26msmns_x% 3d1%26mssng0_x%3d1%26mssns0_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uid h%3dvm5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

kiterunner

15-09-15, 18:22

There is this William in 1841:

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/MDXHO107_686_686-0020/7458767?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1841%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_r_db %26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3dwil* %26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dmathew*%26gsln_x%3d1%26msbd y%3d1811%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msrpn_ _ftp_x%3d1%26msypn__ftp_x%3d1%26gskw%3dmiddlesex%2 6gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

Tottenham Court Road, St Pancras
William Mathews 30 Jeweller Y
Elizabeth Do 30 Y
Rhoda Do 5 Y
Jemima Do 3 Y
Caroline Do 1 Y

kiterunner

15-09-15, 18:27

That William is still with his wife and children in 1851, in Clerkenwell, but it says he was born in Bristol:

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/MDXHO107_1518_1519-0465/16527964?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1851%26so%3d2%26pcat%3d185 1UKI%26gss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26 gsfn%3drhoda%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dmat*w*%26gsln_x %3d1%26msbdy%3d1836%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d5%26ms bpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msrpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msypn__ftp_x%3 d1%26msfng_x%3d1%26msfns_x%3d1%26msmng_x%3d1%26msm ns_x%3d1%26msbng0_x%3d1%26mssng0_x%3d1%26mssns0_x% 3d1%26mscng0_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

Shona

16-09-15, 13:08

Here's the link to the entry that Merry found:
1851 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/MDXHO107_1521_1521-0469/2838733?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1851%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_db%2 6new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsf n%3dwil*%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dmat*w*%26gsln_x%3d1 %26msbdy%3d1832%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbpn__ftp_x%3d1%2 6msrpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msypn__ftp_x%3d1%26msfng_x%3d1 %26msfns_x%3d1%26msmng_x%3d1%26msmns_x%3d1%26msbng 0_x%3d1%26mssng0_x%3d1%26mssns0_x%3d1%26mscng0_x%3 d1%26gskw%3dclerkenwell%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26 uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
43 Galway Street, Finsbury, St Luke
John Matthews Head Mar 47 Carpenter Journeyman Devon Colyton
Mary Do Wife Mar 47 Middlesex St Sepulchre
John Do Son U 23 Jeweller Journeyman Do Clerkenwell
William Do Son U 19 Do Apprentice Do Do
James Do Son 13 Errand Boy Do Saint Lukes
Maria Do Daur 8 Scholar Do Shoreditch

There is this baptism for a William Mathews on 1 April 1832 at St James, Clerkenwell. Father is John, a carpenter, and mother is Mary. Abode looks like Clerkenwell Close. http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1558/31280_199034-00104?pid=5067585&backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f%2fcg i-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3dlmabirths%26gss%3 dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsfn%3dwilliam% 26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dmatthews%26gsln_x%3dNN%26MSA V%3d1%26gskw%3dclerkenwell%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1 %26cp%3d11%26catbucket%3drstp%26uidh%3dfpy%26pcat% 3d34%26fh%3d1%26h%3d5067585%26recoff%3d8%2b9%2b28% 2b40%26ml_rpos%3d2&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true

kiterunner

16-09-15, 13:51

The William Mathews who married Jane Moss in 1856 is a bachelor, father John Mathews, carpenter, with a John Mathews as a witness. This William's signature doesn't match the one on the marriage to Elizabeth Lanning. So it looks as though they are two different people.

Shona

16-09-15, 14:04

I found Elizabeth's father, George, and step-mother, Rebecca, in 1851. She wasn't with them.

What do people think of this as a possibility for Elizabeth Lanning in 1851? Ancestry have indexed the surname as Sanning, but it looks like Lanning to me.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/MDXHO107_1479_1480-0548?pid=1820458&backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f%2fcg i-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1851%26gss%3da ngs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3delizabeth%26gsfn_x %3d1%26gsln%3d*anning%26gsln_x%3dNN%26msbdy%3d1827 %26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d2%26MSAV%3d1%26uidh%3dfpy %26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d29%26h%3d1820458%26recoff%3d7% 2b8%26ml_rpos%3d30&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true

St Margaret's, Westminster

Cannon Row

Ann Major, head, widow, 66, coffee house keeper, born City of Lincoln
Henry Major, son, 19, solicitor's clerk, born City of London
Elizabeth Sanning/Lanning?, servant, 24, waitress, born George St, Grosvenor Square
Henry Allen, visitor, 39, turner, born Bristol
Thomas Allen, visitor, 29, ships rigger, born Portsmouth
Ann Allen, visitor, 35, house keeper, born Portsmouth

kiterunner

16-09-15, 15:31

Yes, it is Lanning, comparing the first letter with the other L's and S's on the page. I have put in a correction.

Phoenix

16-09-15, 16:15

Definitely the right person as the family were in George Street (now Balderton Street) off Oxford Street in 1841.

Thank you, Shona!

Oh, and since her father ran a coffee house, the occupation is appropriate too.

Shona

16-09-15, 16:51

Excellent! Happy to have been of help.

While I was searching, I came across this report from 1851 of a murder of a lodger at the house of George and Rebecca Lanning. Elizabeth's father and step-mother, perhaps?

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000369%2f18511115%2f043

Phoenix

16-09-15, 17:27

Oh yes. That's them. And if you read all the gory details, you wonder why they let the man with his carefully sharpened chisel wait till the woman returned, and once she was safely in her room, sent him up after her. And then delayed calling the police. And why the man got off with manslaughter. They had been at North Street for several years, but moved shortly afterwards. There is also an online account from an American who had come over for the Great Exhibition, saw the crowds and then attended the trial. Theirs was not an upmarket coffee lodging house!