View Full Version : On The Trail Of The Troublesome Trenleys
Could I please have some help establishing a possible link between my
Trenleys of Denham, Bucks & those of Central London? Some of it is probably
not that hard, but I'm still not very good & would appreciate any guidance.
First, the most likely candidate - John Trenley Birch b abt 1816, a piano turner
& professor of music in Hillingdon, Middlesex.
4xg/grandmother's sister Harriet m James Birch 1787 St Giles Cripplegate so
I'm pretty sure JTB 1816 is one of mine. He m Sophia Rawlinson 1843 &
appears to have had sons John Birch b 1851 & Walter Birch b 1860.Walter m
Florence Scotford in 1888 at St Andrews, Uxbridge.
I also have a William Henry Birch apprenticed to JTB in 1842. I see William
Henry Birch of Uxbridge, tailor, was the father of a William Henry Birch b 1826
whose age would be abt right for this apprenticeship.
Next comes the wonderfully named Fynboe John Trenley b 1738. Merry alerted
me to him a couple of months ago - he was a Procurator in Doctors
Commons, son of John & Mary, wife Hester Hawkins. Father John was also a
Procurator in Doctors Commons who d 1763 near Blandford, Dorset "where he
went for the recovery of his health" - no luck with that, then.
I've found records of official correspondence between Fynboe & residents of
the Denham area, but that might be just work - wills, etc. However, we know
my Denham Trenleys had inks to central London as 4xg/grandfather John
Trenley b 1728 & his sister Ann both married at St Gregory by St Paul, where
Fynboe married & is buried.Finally, I have a 1673 marriage allegation for a
John Trenley of St Giles Cripplegate, leatherseller, aged abt 28 & Elizabeth
Salter.
I seem to be floundering in a sea of Trenleys (most of them named John)
without making much progress - and that's before I even start on the
Trenley Birches in the Cheltenham area who appear to have had links to
South Africa!
Perhaps someone with more experience & a fresh perspective could help
me untangle some of these Trenleys?
I may have misread this, but are you assuming that the link must be because of John Trenley Birch's middle name?
I may have misread this, but are you assuming that the link must be because of John Trenley Birch's middle name?
Thats right Nell - that & the Hillingdon ref which crops up in mine.
Should have said that Harriett who married James Birch was Harriett Trenley,
which would have made things clearer.
There's an awful lot to read back about these families (on old threads) and I'm not entirely sure what you are looking for specifically. Is there a missing link between the Denham and London people?
There's an awful lot to read back about these families (on old threads) and I'm not entirely sure what you are looking for specifically. Is there a missing link between the Denham and London people?
The "awful lot2 being the main reason I didn't mention any links to the old
threads!
John Trenley Birch was the one that got me going over the last few days &
then everywhere I looked I came across another John Trenley! What I was
hoping for was some sort of definite link between London & Denham that might
lead me back - perhaps to London - based early ones.
The "awful lot2 being the main reason I didn't mention any links to the old
threads!
But we don't want to be looking up the same stuff again and typing it all out with two fingers (in my case lol)
is it the professor of music you need to get the ancestors for?
4xg/grandmother's sister Harriet m James Birch 1787 St Giles Cripplegate
Do you have details of children for this couple?
What info do you have on William Henry Birch, tailor, father of John T Birch b 1816ish Uxbridge?
I presume this is him?
William Henry Birch
Baptism 22 Aug 1790 at Uxbridge, Middlesex, parents James and Harriot
But we don't want to be looking up the same stuff again and typing it all out with two fingers (in my case lol)
is it the professor of music you need to get the ancestors for?
Definitely not - which is why I tried to pick out only the necessary facts in
hope of not testing anyone's patience!.
JTB b abt 1816's origins would be a great help - I just need some advice on
how I might get started on establishing the Denham/London link.
BTW, its William Henry Birch b 1826 (who may or may not have been JTB's
apprentice) whose father was William Henry Birch b 1802.
All I have on William Henry Snr is that his wife was named Sarah &
William Henry Jnr was b May 1826 & they lived in Norwood, Hayes, Middlesex.
William Henry Birch aged 70 b Uxbridge, tailor, is on the 1861 census with wife Grace 64.
William Henry Birch aged 70 b Uxbridge, tailor, is on the 1861 census with wife Grace 64.
Maybe I've got the wrong William Henry Birch when I said b 1802 & wife
Sarah. He was the one b Norwood.
The William Henry Birch b 1826 is shown a son of WHB, tailor, mother Sarah.
Surely the father of JHT b 1816 isn't going to be born after 1800? I thought he was the one you were interested in?
Surely the father of JHT b 1816 isn't going to be born after 1800? I thought he was the one you were interested in?
Yes - he is but I thought the William Henry Birch who became his apprentice
was most likely a relative (nephew perhaps?) & might therefore be of help.
Please put any vagueness on my part down to the fact that I probably still have
strong antibiotic surging through my system, along with & a still - throbbing
abscessed leg & please be gentle with me!
Plenty of vagueness here too with two teens kept in by the rain!
is there anything to stop the apprentice being the brother of JTB?
Plenty of vagueness here too with two teens kept in by the rain!
is there anything to stop the apprentice being the brother of JTB?
Horrible here too. Thought teens didn't mind being in these days with tablets,
phone etc?
Nothing to stop apprentice being JTB's brother except it was dated 1843 & as
JTB is shown as b 1816 & apprentices are generally younger guys, I thought
WHB b 1826 was likely.
On the 1841 census in Uxbridge there's:
William Birch 50 tailor Yes
Grace Birch 40 Yes
William Birch 15 musician Yes
George Birch 12 Yes
Edwin? Birch 9 Yes
and a couple of tailor's apprentices.
it would seem grace is a step-mum:
Name: William Henry Birch
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 20 Feb 1834
Marriage Place: Langley, Bucks, England
Spouse: Grace Dunton
Oh, thanks Merry - so it looks like WHB the musician is probably the one who became
apprentice to JTB the piano turner & Prof. of Music?
I expect this is his previous marriage:
Name: William Henry Birch
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 11 Jun 1810
Marriage Place: Langley-Marish, Buckingham, England
Spouse: Mary Hilliar
Oh, thanks Merry - so it looks like WHB the musician is probably the one who became
apprentice to JTB the piano turner & Prof. of Music?
Yes, his brother!
... and his Mum was Sarah.
The Langley area is where Fynboe (love that name) was sending his correspondence,
but I don't think we want to go there!
... and his Mum was Sarah.
... or Mary ?????
Thanks again Merry, but ...... I can't get my head round WHB the musician being JTB's
brother! How do we arrive at that? Or have I missed something really obvious? (Gently,
remember.)
lol!
JTB was b about 1816 Uxbridge (from census) and you would like him to be related to your Harriet Trenley and James Birch (I'm doing this from memory, so some dates are approx.!). We know from his marriage cert his father was WHB, tailor.
Harriet and James Birch had a son called WHB b about 1790 in Uxbridge, who I decided was JTBs father. On the censuses he is married to Grace and I found two marriages for him in Bucks, the second to Grace and the first to Mary who I hope if JTB's mother.
On the 1841 census the same WHB (aged 50, wife Grace) has a boy in his house called WHB who is a musician. This boy is the right age and occ to be JTB's apprentice. Most likely these two WHB's in the same house are father and son and certainly when the musician got married (to Eliza?) he said his father was WHB a tailor.
Does that make sense? :)
Certainly does - you're so good (and so good to me, the Vague One.)
Since we last spoke I've seen a posting on Roots Chat about a Charles Samuel Birch b
1866 who emigrated to Australia. It says he came fro a very musical family - and was the
son of William Henry Birch b 1826 who was a Professor of Music.
I then found this entry for WHB
.... ooops, bad case of finger slippage!
Entry in book on composers of church music reads -
'Birch William Henry (1826 -1888)
B Uxbridge, Middlesex 5 May 1826, D Caversham, Berkshire 18 July 1888.
Studied under George Elvey, Richard Blagrove and Robert Barnett. As a chorister at St
Paul's Cathedral he was a pupil of William Hawes and Thomas Attwood.
Organist of St Mary's Church, Amersham, Bucks. Taught music at Caversham.
Composed a cantata 'The Wreck Of The Argosy' (1879) his church music includes canticle
settings. A set of 12 anthems was published in 1879. His anthems include 'Enter Not Into
Judgement' and 'Ponder My Words.'
Well, I'll go to the foot of our stairs !!!!!!!
Very interesting that WHB the tailor, managed to apparently progress at least two sons into such an unusual occupation.
I don't have time to type this out now, but this partial info from the 1871 census and is the household of WHB b 1826 Uxb. showing he did have a son named as your contact suggested. Edward is his father-in-law:
William H Birch 45
Eliza Birch 49
Eliza Birch 18
William H Birch 15
Frederick G I Birch 13
Charlotte H Birch 11
John J Birch 8
Charles S Birch 5
Leopold A Birch 2
Edward Ingram 70
What a very satisfying result - thanks so much for your help, Merry. Have a drink on me.
lol vita, I just had a cup of tea!
lol vita, I just had a cup of tea!
Its never too late, Merry.
I've just been reading about Charles Samuel in Australia. He married an
actress but eventually ran off with a much younger man (!) & died in a
Salvation Army Hostel.
Thought OH took that news very well - he's a bit old fashioned that way - but
he's used to surprises in my tree by now.
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