View Full Version : WYLIE family of Glasgow
Hi, me again. I'll just leave this here if I may; one of the two families I am researching. :)
I am searching for information regarding the family of Andrew WYLIE (1906 - 1945), originally from Cathcart, Glasgow. He was the son of another Andrew Wylie (1882 - 1954) and had siblings named Sam, Jack, Annie and May. The younger Andrew was a chemist and married Mary/Maidie Innes c1933; they had children names removed in case still living -- one or more may still be alive. Some of the family may have emigrated to South Africa at some point, but this is unconfirmed. If you have any information about Andrew or his family please contact me as the other four branches of the family are now all in touch once again.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:1:9CBG-NYP
(I didn't submit that information, but I'd be keen to find out who did)
kiterunner
19-08-15, 17:25
James, please note that our site doesn't allow posting of details (names etc) about people who may still be alive unless they have given their consent.
My apologies indeed. I shall bear that in mind in the future.
Oh well, hopefully something comes up.
Thanks. :)
kiterunner
19-08-15, 17:40
If you search the Statutory Marriages on Scotland's People without actually viewing the results list, just the free search to see how many matches you get, there is 1 match for Andrew Wylie marrying Mary Innes in 1933 in Glasgow City, Cathcart district.
To find out the bride's first name, since there was no match for Maidie, I tried "names beginning with" M, then Ma, then Maa, Mab, etc until I got a match for Mar, then I guessed Mary so I tried that and got a match, then changed to "Exact forenames only". For county / city and district you have to try them 1 at a time but of course Glasgow City was my first guess.
If you want to view the full details of the marriage you would have to buy credits on SP.
That's very clever, thanks. I never thought to try that, as I knew I didn't have any credits to view the results.
How did you narrow it down to 1933, though? All I get is 'Your search found 1 match' and a tick. Did you just try searching one year at a time until you got to 1933?
Is there any way to use SP without buying individual credits? I'm not really sure what the point of that is, aside from fleecing customers who wish to view multiple records. I mean, clearly you're going to have misses as well as hits, so it seems odd to literally charge someone for that.
Also, do you know what year the records go up to? Is there a cut-off point?
Well done for figuring out that little piece of information anyway. I'm very thankful. I wish there was a way to get a free trial for SP, as I could probably answer most of my queries within a few hours.
kiterunner
19-08-15, 18:36
That's very clever, thanks. I never thought to try that, as I knew I didn't have any credits to view the results.
How did you narrow it down to 1933, though? All I get is 'Your search found 1 match' and a tick. Did you just try searching one year at a time until you got to 1933? I tried a wide range first and then smaller ranges within that range to see which got matches and which didn't - something like 1920 to 1945 (1 match), then 1920 to 1930 (none) 1931 to 1937 (1 match), 1931 to 1934 (1 match) and so on.
Is there any way to use SP without buying individual credits? I'm not really sure what the point of that is, aside from fleecing customers who wish to view multiple records. I mean, clearly you're going to have misses as well as hits, so it seems odd to literally charge someone for that. You can search without having credits although you do need to be logged into your account. You only need credits to view the list of matches and then to view the actual records. I would say it is worse for people who only want to view 1 record than it is for people who want to view multiple records, as you have to buy the credits in batches of 30 or so.
Also, do you know what year the records go up to? Is there a cut-off point? The BMD indexes go up to 2014, but for recent records, you have to order a copy of the actual record rather than being able to view online. The cutoff date varies depending on whether it is a birth, marriage or death, though. Full details on here:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=554&413
Well done for figuring out that little piece of information anyway. I'm very thankful. I wish there was a way to get a free trial for SP, as I could probably answer most of my queries within a few hours. Sometimes a code will be published that gives you a small number of free credits, but I don't know of a current offer. Maybe someone else on here will know of one?
Olde Crone
19-08-15, 20:37
I managed to do the Scottish side of my family in about a week, downlading any number of certs on SP for a total of less than £100. That would not buy ten certs in England, so I think SP is very good value for money. I didn't feel fleeced!
You can often find early registration details on Familysearch (free), so always worth a look there first.
OC
Hi guys. I have some more information received over the phone from a relative yesterday. He says he remembers a JIM or JAMES Wylie, who was a doctor in Giffnock, Glasgow and was possibly the elder ANDREW's brother. He'll be long dead now, as he was was roughly the same age as Andrew, who died in 1954.
That's another small piece of the puzzle, anyway. They lived at Giffnock, and sometimes used to pop up to Oban on small family holidays. This would be 1940s/50s.
My relative seems to recall that Jim practiced homeopathy, which would have been fairly rare in those days.
Well, big thanks to kiterunner, as the 1933 marriage was indeed the correct one.
I have since managed to find and download birth, marriage and death certificates for both Andrew and Samuel Wylie, but sadly haven't been able to find anything for Jack. He died in 1968 and my mother remembers visiting him in hospital in Edinburgh not long before he died, but for some reason I can't find anything.
Does anyone know if the old Royal Infirmary (Edinburgh) would have been in the George Square district of the city? It's since moved to another part of the city.
The 'Maidie Innes' was Mary Geddie McKechnie Innes (b. c1909), and I've e-mailed someone who I believe may be able to help me on that front. I think I've managed to confirm at least one of the three cousins I am searching for, but sadly I can't be 100% and don't have any contact details. Still, baby steps.
I'm really happy with the progress I've made so far, even if it's cost more than I'd have liked to get there. :D
James, had you thought to look for John as a variation of Jack? I found a blog called Glasgow Ancestry that lists the following information from a memorial stone in Old Cathcart Cemetery:
John Wylie, manufacturer of Glasgow
His wife Isabella Mitchell McKechnie
Sons- John, William, Alexander and Hugh.
There are no dates given so I don't know how relevant this is but there is also a video of the stone. You be the judge, but it doesn't look very ancient to me, so possibly some of the family you are looking for?
Wylie ancestry Glasgow Scotland (http://glasgowancestry.blogspot.com/2009/09/wylie-ancestry-glasgow-scotland.html)
The McKechnie name struck me.
Good point, Janet. Men named John in Scotland were often called Jock which can appear as Jack in the records. My late father was called Jock by family - his middle name was John.
Hello folks, and thanks for the help! :)
Yes, I had tried John, and indeed had considered William (also, though more rarely, shortened to Jack).
re the gravestones; it's interesting that there's an Isabella Mitchell McKechnie having married a John Wylie, as my Andrew Wylie's wife was Mary Geddie ('Maidie') McKechnie Innes, so I wonder if there's a link there?
As for Jack Wylie, there is a record of a John Wylie having died in 1968, aged 58, and registered in the George Square district of Edinburgh, which is why I was querying the location of the old Royal Infirmary. I should perhaps have mentioned this entry before, sorry. The age would be about right, though. Sam and Andrew's records were easy to find and have three detailed records each, so it's a shame Jack doesn't also.
Interestingly (and sadly) Sam and Andrew - who died at home in 1942 and 1945 - had their death certificates signed by the same man, their uncle Jim Hendry, a doctor from Giffnock.
I've contacted a couple of relatives, including Jack's daughter, regarding details for him, so hopefully that bears fruit.
As for Andrew and Mary Innes' children, I've found a possible link, but a second opinion would be more than welcome, so I'll explain that below.
I have a copy of Andrew and Mary's marriage certificate, and Mary's father is listed as being a Robert Alexander Innes. No age is given, but she was 24 when she married Andrew in 1933, and so we assume Robert would have been 50s or 60s, right?
Well, I found this: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/MORAY/2008-09/1221329406
It lists a Robert Alexander Innes as being 27 years old at the time of the 1901 census, which would make his year of birth c1874. So, 1933 - 1874 = 59.
I wonder, then, if this is the same Robert Alexander Innes, and so perhaps the person who posted that information may know something about his grandchildren. I hope so, anyway. Another clue is that some of those names are very interesting with regards to the lost cousins I am looking for.
What do you think?
kiterunner
29-08-15, 11:02
You can't assume the age of someone's father from the child's age; all you can get from that is the father's minimum possible age.
Hello James - the hospital was in Lauriston Place which is quite close to George Square, so it could have been in that registration district. Given that reg districts have changed over time, you could email
[email protected] with your question.
You can't assume the age of someone's father from the child's age; all you can get from that is the father's minimum possible age.
Yes, indeed, which is why I've contacted the person who posted that information to ask if they know any more. It's just an avenue of investigation.
Hello James - the hospital was in Lauriston Place which is quite close to George Square, so it could have been in that registration district. Given that reg districts have changed over time, you could email
[email protected] with your question.
Thanks Shona.
I tried the e-mail address but got an automatic response that it isn't used, so I contacted them via the form on their website.
Ha! Lost cousins found. Case closed (for now!) :)
Coming back to the Wylies briefly, if I may, I have been moving back a generation to include Andrew Wylie's (1881 - 1954) siblings and their children. As with the Hendry family from my other thread, there are certain spelling discrepancies between names which can make tracing people/events difficult.
On Andrew Wylie's marriage certificate, his parents are listed as Andrew Wylie, tailor, and Mary McIntyre. At that time - 1905 - both were still alive. I have since managed to find the deaths of both parents using GRONI, and these are confirmed by the fact that the same woman - Jeannie Fenton, the married name of their daughter Jane Wylie - is named as present on both certificates.
I have managed to find references to several of Andrew Wylie and Mary McIntyre's children, both on GRONI and on public member trees on Ancestry. However, this is where the naming discrepancies come into effect...
I have copies of the 1901 (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Crumlin/Skerry_East/929825/) Wylie census (Antrim), 1911 (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Clogh/Killyree/119887/) Wylie census (Antrim), 1911 Wylie census (Glasgow; Andrew, the eldest brother, who by this time had married Elizabeth Hendry) and 1911 (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Clogh/Killyree/119886/) Wylie census (Antrim; George, the second brother, who by this time had married Mary Agnes Gillan).
Andrew and Mary married October 9th, 1880 in Ballymena -- her name is McAteer and his is Wiley.
So, looking at the children...
Andrew (1881 - 1954) - b. Antrim, d. Leicester
Andrew was my great-grandfather and I have already done a family tree for his branch of the family. I know where and when he died, but have not been able to find a sufficiently credible birth record for him. There is an Andrew Wylie born October 4th, 1881 in Ballymena on GRONI, and I have seen this date used for him (and others) on public family trees... however, the mother's maiden name is McAleese, as opposed to McIntyre or McAteer/McAteere as we see with other siblings. These are all clearly variants of McIntyre, whereas McAleese seems a little suspect to me, and on top of that there are further Wylie children born to a McAleese and I suspect it may be a different family. If anyone could confirm this point either way I'd be much obliged.
George (1883 - 1959) - b. Antrim, d. Glasgow
Luckily there is a lot of information for George on a public tree here (http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/25076049/person/26090890516/facts), which I have no reason to doubt. Obviously George fits into the author's family tree somewhere, and there is a death certificate for George available on SP, of which I have a copy. However, I would be keen to find the correct Mary Agnes Gillan, as I do not have a birth for her which matches her age on the 1911 census, and she appears here (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gss=angs-g&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=Mary+Elizabeth+Agnes&gsfn_x=0&gsln=Gillan&gsln_x=0&MSAV=1&msbdy=1887&cpxt=1&cp=8&catbucket=rstp&uidh=yke&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=12627726&db=WebSearch-4150&indiv=1&ml_rpos=1) on the 1901 census.
Mary (1885 - ????) b. Antrim, d. ????
Born December 5th, 1885 in Ballymena. Married John Falconer July 18th, 1911 in Ballymena. I do have a photo of her and her sister Jeannie Fenton when both are well into middle age, but I do not know the year it was taken or what happened to her or John after that. He may well have been dead by then, I'm afraid I have no idea. There are two or three candidates for John's birth on GRONI, but I don't know which would be him.
John (1888 - ????) b. Antrim, d. ????
Born March 3rd, 1888 in Ballymena. John is single and living with his parents on both the 1901 and 1911 census' -- I suspect he may have moved to Glasgow, and subsequently to Buffalo, New York. I am in contact with a lady on Ancestry who I believe to be his granddaughter, and so I shall try to confirm this point. If anyone can find contrary information, do let me know. -- deconfirmed!
David (1894 - 1916) b. Antrim, d. France/Flanders
Born December 17th, 1894 in Ballymena. There is a military record (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=try&db=UKsoldiersGreatWar&h=209917) of a David Wylie of Ballymena dying of his wounds on April 5th, 1916. Do we think this is him? I don't have any other information to go on right now.
Jane (1899 - 1979) b. Antrim, d. Antrim?
Born June 14th, 1899 in Ballymena. Married William John Fenton July 20th, 1920 in Ballymena. Died January 17th, 1979 in Ballymena? There's a public family tree for her here (http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/53210903/person/26006914895/facts), which I have no reason to doubt, but of course it's nice to confirm all of these things independently.
According to the 1911 census, Andrew and Mary had two children who died, bringing the total to 8. I'd be very interested to know who these children were, and when they were born and died, as I'd like to add them to the tree.
I think that's everything covered... does anyone think they could help me fill in some of the gaps?
Thanks,
James
kiterunner
14-10-15, 12:26
David Wylie is listed in the Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects on ancestry and his money was sent to his widow Jane:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/60506/42511_6117463_0063-00286/368104?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dukarmyregisterseffects%26so%3 d2%26pcat%3d39%26gss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26_F8007A65%3d204 46%26MSAV%3d1%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
Thanks Kate, well-spotted, although sadly without a surname that won't help us with tracing their marriage on GRONI.
Also, I edited the post re John Wylie. The lady from Ancestry e-mailed me back; her John Wylie was Andrew's uncle not his brother, so we're back to square one with him.
EDIT: The only marriage record on GRONI involving a David Wylie is with a [forename] Reid, February 19th, 1914 in Armagh. If it's the same David Wylie, he must have married at some point between the 1911 census and his death in 1916.
kiterunner
14-10-15, 13:02
however, the mother's maiden name is McAleese, as opposed to McIntyre or McAteer/McAteere as we see with other siblings. These are all clearly variants of McIntyre, whereas McAleese seems a little suspect to me, and on top of that there are further Wylie children born to a McAleese and I suspect it may be a different family. If anyone could confirm this point either way I'd be much obliged.
McAleese could easily be a mistranscription of McAteere. Are you saying that you have viewed the birth cert and everything looks right except for the mother's maiden name, or that you aren't sure whether to view it because of the MMN in the index?
kiterunner
14-10-15, 13:06
EDIT: The only marriage record on GRONI involving a David Wylie is with a [forename] Reid, February 19th, 1914 in Armagh. If it's the same David Wylie, he must have married at some point between the 1911 census and his death in 1916.
According to ancestry and FamilySearch, the matching bride's name for that one is Sarah Reid.
McAleese could easily be a mistranscription of McAteere. Are you saying that you have viewed the birth cert and everything looks right except for the mother's maiden name, or that you aren't sure whether to view it because of the MMN in the index?
No, I haven't viewed Andrew's birth certificate, but I know that he died on July 21st, 1954 and that he was ~72 at the time, which would fit in with the Wylie / McAleese birth index. I also know he was born in Antrim, and that I couldn't find another Andrew Wylie birth at the right sort of time.
However, if you search GRONI for Wylie / McAleese births, there aren't any after Andrew in 1881 until you get to the mid-1890s, from which time there are numerous births.
What do you think? Bearing in mind that, going by the 1911 census, we're only looking for two children who died.
kiterunner
14-10-15, 13:15
However, I would be keen to find the correct Mary Agnes Gillan, as I do not have a birth for her which matches her age on the 1911 census, and she appears here (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gss=angs-g&new=1&rank=1&gsfn=Mary+Elizabeth+Agnes&gsfn_x=0&gsln=Gillan&gsln_x=0&MSAV=1&msbdy=1887&cpxt=1&cp=8&catbucket=rstp&uidh=yke&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=12627726&db=WebSearch-4150&indiv=1&ml_rpos=1) on the 1901 census.
Do you have any information about her family from her marriage cert?
You could try contacting the Preby church in Ballymena as they will do look-ups for baptisms.
http://www.firstballymena.org/church/churchRecords.php
Do you have any information about her family from her marriage cert?
No, I don't have that yet. I just got the free information from GRONI, and found his death certificate on SP; on that, she is down as Mary Wylie (widow) and Mary Agnes Gillan on the 'married to' bit.
I did find a birth index for a Mary Elizabeth Agnes Gillin on Ancestry yesterday, but I think that was 1887, so she'd be a bit too old. I suppose it depends how accurate the census records are.
kiterunner
14-10-15, 13:30
You could try contacting the Preby church in Ballymena as they will do look-ups for baptisms.
http://www.firstballymena.org/church/churchRecords.php
Would Plymouth Brethren have their children baptised at a Presbyterian church?
Would Plymouth Brethren have their children baptised at a Presbyterian church?
That was my first thought also.
Tracing Wylies and Hendrys in Canada has been difficult for that very reason; many of them were Plymouth Brethren, and so were often excluded from the primarily Roman Catholic Drouin Collection.
Has to be worth a try, though.
Would Plymouth Brethren have their children baptised at a Presbyterian church?
I remember now - they were Brethren. As far as I can see from the Ulster Historical Foundation, they have Ballymena Christian Brethren marriages, but not baptisms.
As regards name variants in Ireland, James. It's worth checking the Irish Times surname database. http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/surname/index.cfm?fuseaction=Go.&UserID=
Thanks for the tip, Shona. :)
I have submitted a request to that Ballymena church website for a marriage between Andrew Wylie / Wiley and Jane McBride c1840 - 1860. These are Andrew's parents.
I've also sent a separate request for baptisms for Andrew Wylie / Wiley and Mary McIntyre / McAteer / McAteere c1850 - 1860.
So, whilst we await that information.
John Wylie -- no idea.
David Wylie -- unconfirmed, but could be a WW1 casualty.
Mary Wylie (Falconer) -- no idea after she married John.
Jane Wylie (Fenton) -- d.1979 somewhere in Ireland? Two daughters on the public family tree, both now dead.
And two (?) unnamed children who died pre-1911.
I am told that Mary Agnes Gillan's father was named James, and I believe they were from Clough.
I got a reply back from the church in Ballymena -- much quicker than I expected. They said they couldn't find anything despite searching all variants of Wylie, Wiley, McIntyre, McAteer and McAteere, but that I should contact two of the other churches in the area.
kiterunner
15-10-15, 13:31
I've just noticed that the British Newspaper Archive has a lot of issues of the Ballymena Observer, which you might find useful. They are counted as "Irish Newspapers" on Findmypast but on the British Newspaper Archive there is no separate section for Irish papers.
I think I've found one of the two 'missing' children; there are two mentioned on the 1911 census, who died.
Jane Wylie
U/1893/22/1004/12/49
Registration district
Ballymena(pre-1973 Q4)
Registration sub-district
Clough Ballymena
Child details
Surname of child
Wylie
Forename(s) of child
Jane
Date of birth
18th January 1893
Sex of child
Female
District of birth
Ballymena(pre-1973 Q4)
Mother details
Forename and surname of mother
Mary Wylie
Mother's maiden surname
McIntyre
Father details
Forename and surname of father
Andrew Wylie
Jane Wylie
D/1894/22/1004/6/406
Registration district
Ballymena(pre-1973 Q4)
Registration sub-district
Clough Ballymena
Deceased details
Surname of deceased
Wylie
Forename(s) of deceased
Jane
Sex of deceased
Female
Marital status of deceased
Single
Date of death
11th March 1894
Age at death
1
Place of death
District of death
Ballymena(pre-1973 Q4)
Does that look about right?
The Jane ('Jeannie') who survived and married William Fenton wasn't born until 1899.
Not sure who the other missing child is, but I'm trying to work out some births and deaths using GRONI.
The only other possibility I can find is this:
David Wylie
U/1890/22/1004/11/172
Registration district
Ballymena(pre-1973 Q4)
Registration sub-district
Clough Ballymena
Child details
Surname of child
Wylie
Forename(s) of child
David
Date of birth
6th July 1890
Sex of child
Male
District of birth
Ballymena(pre-1973 Q4)
Mother details
Forename and surname of mother
Nancy Wylie
Mother's maiden surname
McIntyre
Father details
Forename and surname of father
Andrew Wylie
David Wylie
D/1894/22/1004/6/405
Registration district
Ballymena(pre-1973 Q4)
Registration sub-district
Clough Ballymena
Deceased details
Surname of deceased
Wylie
Forename(s) of deceased
David
Sex of deceased
Male
Marital status of deceased
Single
Date of death
24th February 1894
Age at death
3
Place of death
District of death
Ballymena(pre-1973 Q4)
I'm not sure about Nancy... could be mistranscribed from Mary, but I don't know. The rest would be about right, and I can't find a marriage between a Nancy McIntyre and an Andrew Wylie.
All of the other Wylie / McIntyre births are Andrew and Mary's.
Ah, I took a chance on the full death indexes for both of them. They both died of Measles, with the father present. I thought it was strange they died a couple of weeks apart.
Fairly sure they're the right people, and the parents obviously re-used the names for later births.
Hi all,
Thanks to a relative sending me some old hand-written notes, I have plenty more names to go on.
Previously I was unable to progress with the Wylie family as I had completely run out of information regarding several family members, and so it would have been a case of simply relying on expensive guess work, which would likely have been a waste of time. However, I hope that some more progress can now be made. :)
Firstly, my above findings for David and Jeannie Wylie are accurate, as this relative has the same names, and then the later children with those names and (2) after them.
I've also managed to find some dates of birth for several of George Wylie's children on the Dunminning School Register, which was a very useful thing to have stumbled across.
Anyway, here's the information relevant to my particular query right now:
George Wylie (1883 - 1959) m. Mary Agnes Gillan (1888 - 1981) 10/06/1908 Ballymena
May (1909 - ????)
George (1911 - 1989)
John James (1913 - 1913)
James (1914 - 2009)
Andrew (1917 - 1985?)
name removed (1920 - ????)
name removed (1923 - ????)
name removed (1925 - ????)
Harold Coupton? (1929 - 2001)
Mary Wylie (1885 - ????) m. John Falconer/Faulkner (1885 - ????) 18/07/1911 Ballymena
Jack (???? - ????)
'Jack' is the name written down as being their only child. No dates given, sadly. I would be very keen to trace this individual, as although they are very unlikely to be still be alive, if I can find reference to them somewhere it would help me fill in some of the blanks for Mary and John.
John Wylie (1888 - ????) m. Sarah McSeveney (???? - ????) 18/07/1917 Ballymena
" m. Ella Guy (???? - ????)
names removed
These are the names given as John's children, and presumably by his first wife. No dates given. There are a number of McSeveney births on GRONI but I have not been able to find one for a Sarah at about the right time, but I was able to find their marriage (given above).
David (1894 - ????) m. Minnie McBurney (1901 - ????)
" m. Jean Turtle (???? - ????)
names removed
There is a dividing line between name removed and name removed, so presumably David had children by both wives.
Of course, the main revelation here is that if David did indeed marry twice and have numerous children then he is certainly not the same David Wylie from Ballymena who died in France in 1916. If so, I am curious as to who that was. It must have been a cousin of some sort.
Jane ('Jeannie') Wylie (1899 - 1979) m. William John Fenton (1895 - 1983) 20/07/1920 Ballymena
Mollie Mary (1922 - 2012)
Marjorie (1923 - 2006)
name removed (???? - ????)
I've written down the children's names exactly as they are on the notes, and so most or all of the Jacks are probably Johns for example.
In particular I would be keen to use this information to find out what happened to John, Mary and David Wylie and their spouses. Until now I had no names to go on, so this is all very interesting information.
All help is appreciated!
kiterunner
15-11-15, 12:52
James, I have removed some of the names from your latest post in case any of those people are still living. If there are any of them who you know are deceased let me know and I will put their names back in. If anybody wants the names so they can help search, just PM me or James for them.
kiterunner
15-11-15, 15:01
Of course, the main revelation here is that if David did indeed marry twice and have numerous children then he is certainly not the same David Wylie from Ballymena who died in France in 1916. If so, I am curious as to who that was. It must have been a cousin of some sort.
Some of the online records for the David Wylie who died in 1916 (Corporal and then Lance-Sergeant in the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, army number 20446, wife's name Jane) say that he enlisted in Glasgow. If this is correct, then maybe he is the David Wyllie who is in Glasgow on the 1901 Scottish census (according to ancestry's transcription) age 23, born Ireland, with wife Jane (also 23, born Ireland) and daughter Matilda age 7 (born Glasgow). There is a David Wylie birth registration Apr-Jun 1878 Ballymena.
Thanks, Kate. I shall look into that avenue at some point.
I have just found Mary Wylie/Falconer's death index on GRONI. Pretty sure this is her, as the DOB matches up; she died the day before her 73rd birthday.
D/1958/22/1004/13/489
Registration district
Ballymena(pre-1973 Q4)
Registration sub-district
Clough Ballymena
Deceased details
Deceased name(s)
Mary Falconer
Sex of deceased
Female
Marital status of deceased
Married
Date of death
4th December 1958
Age at death
72
District of death
Ballymena(pre-1973 Q4)
It says she is married, which means that John Falconer must have died after her. Sadly death records on GRONI only go up to 50 years ago, and so I can't find him on there as Mary died just in time -- so to speak.
The informant at death was a William Aitken, which is a family connection I am aware of, so it won't be coincidence.
Sadly I don't know when John Falconer died, but as Mary is given as married and not a widow he presumably outlived her. Hopefully something appears on Ancestry, as he won't be on GRONI if he died less than 50 years ago.
Here (https://i.imgur.com/9BdTHQU.jpg) is the marriage certificate between Sara(h) McSeveney and John Wylie. It seems his brother David was a witness.
Perhaps the additional information can help us locate some of these people.
There are two marriages for a William McSeveney on GRONI during this time frame:
1) 19/10/1865 in Ballymena, to a woman with the surname Walker.
2) 10/07/1894 in Ballymena, to a woman with the surname Dawson.
If the age on the marriage certificate is correct, then Sara(h) would be born ~1895.
Curiously, this (http://apps.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar_IE/willsSearchResultsDetails.aspx) death doesn't seem to be on GRONI. I wonder if it is our John Wylie? The name, location and time frame seem accurate, but there's not much to go on, and he would presumably have had a wife at that point (he married twice, apparently) and a few children.
kiterunner
16-11-15, 12:37
Curiously, this (http://apps.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar_IE/willsSearchResultsDetails.aspx) death doesn't seem to be on GRONI. I wonder if it is our John Wylie? The name, location and time frame seem accurate, but there's not much to go on, and he would presumably have had a wife at that point (he married twice, apparently) and a few children.
Your link just takes me to the search screen, James.
kiterunner
16-11-15, 12:39
This is Sarah McSeveney with her family on the 1911 census:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Newtown_Crommelin/Skerry_East/120645/
It says she was born in Scotland.
kiterunner
16-11-15, 12:42
But in 1901 it says she was born Co Antrim:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Crumlin/Skerry_East/929863/
kiterunner
16-11-15, 12:49
If I search on Scotland's People for exact forename Sarah, surname McSeveney with surname variants, birth 1895-1895, county Lanark, I get one match (I started with a wider range and narrowed it down), but if I change it to exact surname, no matches. I typed McSeveney into the will search to see what surname variants there are but it said there were none!
There are several McSeveneys born around the right time on GRONI, but the first Sarah isn't born until 1904, so perhaps she was born in Scotland. Good find.
The will I linked to is John Wylie, d. 26/07/1963 in Ballymena. I just thought it would link you straight to it, sorry.
Wylie, John otherwise Jack of Ballywatermoy Glarryford Ballymena county Antrim retired rate collector died 26 July 1963 Probate Belfast 28 January to Hugh Fulton tailor and Samuel Marshall retired solicitor. Effects £9264 16s.
re SP, I used my final credit to check who it was:
1 1889 MCSEVENY SARAH MOODIE F LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0123
The date is certainly off, as if born 1889 she'd only be a year younger than John. Also, her marriage certificate does list her as 'Sara D McSeveney' so if she has a middle name, it'll be something beginning with D.
kiterunner
16-11-15, 13:09
Using the free search on GRONI, John Wylie death 1963-1964 1 match, 1963-1965 1 match, 1964-1965 0 matches, so that must mean one John Wylie death in 1963. Have you ruled that one out?
kiterunner
16-11-15, 13:17
re SP, I used my final credit to check who it was:
1 1889 MCSEVENY SARAH MOODIE F LINLITHGOW /WEST LOTHIAN 668/00 0123
The date is certainly off, as if born 1889 she'd only be a year younger than John. Also, her marriage certificate does list her as 'Sara D McSeveney' so if she has a middle name, it'll be something beginning with D.
That's not the one I found - mine was county = Lanark, year of birth 1895.
Using the free search on GRONI, John Wylie death 1963-1964 1 match, 1963-1965 1 match, 1964-1965 0 matches, so that must mean one John Wylie death in 1963. Have you ruled that one out?
John Wylie was born 03/03/1888.
The results on GRONI are:
- 12/06/1962, Ballymoney, age 0
- 04/08/1962, Belfast, age 76
- 18/04/1963, Antrim, age 81
The will on PRONI is for a man who died 26/07/1963. No age is given, but it does say he is a retired rate collector.
That's not the one I found - mine was county = Lanark, year of birth 1895.
My search criteria were:
You searched for: Surname: "McSev"; Surname Option: Prefix; Forename: "Sara"; Forename Option: Prefix; Sex: "Female"; Year From: 1885; Year To: 1900;
So any variant of McSeveney or Sara/Sarah should be covered.
kiterunner
16-11-15, 13:27
I didn't specify sex on my search and I put surname McSeveney including surname variants. Surnames beginning with McSev wouldn't include any Mac... surnames, would they?
Anyway, messing about with the "surnames that begin with", I've managed to figure out it is McSaveny. (For the 1895 Lanark birth)
(Edit - it does match if I add in sex = female too; I just wouldn't normally bother when it is a name such as Sarah.)
Incidentally, if you search deaths for:
Wylie (surnames beginning with)
Sara (forenames beginning with)
McSeveney (other surnames)
...you get one result, but I can't view it atm.
Right, got some credits.
It's Sarah Dawson McSeveney. She died 03/09/1934 in Springburn, Glasgow. Age 39.
Parents are William McSeveney and Jane Dawson, so it must be the:
'10/07/1894 in Ballymena, to a woman with the surname Dawson.'
...wedding. Born in Scotland, then?
EDIT: Yes, you were right, Kate:
1 1895 MCSAVENY SARAH DAWSON F CALDERHEAD /LANARK 626/0B 0130
And here's the second marriage, which fits the notes I have:
1 1942 WYLIE JOHN GUY ELLEN ATKINSON PROVAN GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/04 0251
I'll see if I can find what happened to her and John.
EDIT: Well, there's a record of an Ellen Atkinson Wylie going to New York. It's on the 1820 - 1957 New York Passenger Lists on Ancestry, but I don't have a Worldwide sub so I can't view it.
There's also a death index for an Ellen A Wylie in Sacramento, 1970. Could be anyone, though.
I've found one of John and Sarah's children:
Ruby McSeveney Wylie b. 1929 Glasgow d. 2007 Glasgow
I've found a second cousin of my mother's who lives about twenty minutes' away from her, and he sent me a letter and some old photos in the post that arrived this morning.
I certainly never expected to find him, so it just goes to show that if you keep digging you will unveil something or someone unexpected. :D
Thanks again for all your help over the past few months. I'm not going to stop here of course, but I'm amazed at how much has been achieved across the various threads (Eighteen, Hendry, Wylie, etc.) and just wanted to say thank you. It is greatly appreciated.
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