Who Do You Think You Are - Paul Hollywood 13th Aug

[kiterunner]

On BBC1 at 9 p.m. and it will be repeated on Tuesday the 18th on BBC1 at 11:35 pm.

[kiterunner]

Episode synopsis:

Paul Hollywood lives in Kent with his wife Alex and their son. Paul's parents divorced when he was 10. He was very close to his maternal grandparents, Amy and Norman Harman. Norman played the piano in church and ran open services on the beach at Wallasey, where Paul grew up. Norman served in North Africa and Italy (Anzio) in WW2.

Paul went to visit his mum, Jill and his brother Lee in Wallasey. His other brother Jason had Norman's war medals, which showed that Sergeant Norman Harman served in the 90th Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment) in Britain, Tunisia and Italy, including the Anzio landings.
Norman had a facial tic after the war, which the family believe was caused by his wartime experiences.

Paul's mother showed him Norman's service record, which showed his trade on enlistment as "grocer's assistant". His marriage date was shown as 1st Jun 1940. He left for Africa on the 28th Feb 1943 and returned to Britain on the 21st Dec 1945, with Paul's mother having been born while he was away. He went back to Anzio for the 50th anniversary.

Paul's mother gave him the letters and telegrams which Norman sent his wife during the war.

Paul went to Tunisia and met an historian at Medjez Al Bab, who told him about the actions that Norman took part in there, ending with the taking of Tunis from the Germans.

Paul then went to Italy, to see where Norman took part in the Anzio landings, trench warfare, and finally the liberation of Rome.

Paul then returned to England to look at the family tree that his uncle Les, his mother's brother, had done of the Mackenzie family. Margaret Mackenzie was Norman's mother, and her parents were Alexander Mackenzie who played piano in Liverpool and drank heavily, and Rebecca Elliott. Paul found the family in Liverpool on a census, which showed that Alexander was a wood turner, born in Glasgow.

Paul went to Glasgow and met an historian who showed him Alexander's birth certificate. Alexander's father was Kenneth McKenzie. Kenneth's marriage certificate showed that he was a police officer in Glasgow. Glasgow's police force was the first in Britain.

Kenneth's police records showed that he was a farm servant born in Ross-shire, age 29 and height 5'10" when he joined the police. His beat was the dock area. He was dismissed from the police in 1852 after various misdemeanours such as drinking while on duty, assaulting a prisoner, etc. He moved down to Liverpool but later returned to Glasgow, applying for poor relief on the 7th Apr 1893 and dying two days later in Govan Poorhouse. The application showed that his father was Donald McKenzie, a crofter at Poolewe, parish of Gairloch, Ross-shire.

Paul went to Poolewe to meet a local historian and to see where Donald's croft used to be. It has modern buildings on it now. The estate's rental records showed that as well as being a crofter, Donald was a "post runner" - he ran from Poolewe to Dingwall and back with the post every week, a round trip of 120 miles. There was mention of him in a book but his name was wrongly given as Duncan. He was listed on the 1841 census in his 80's.

[kiterunner]

This is Alexander and Rebecca's family in 1891:
1891 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/6598/LANRG12_2975_2977-0577/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=6598&iid=LANRG12_2975_2977-0577&fn=Alexander&ln=Mc+Kenzie&st=d&ssrc=&pid=25395209)
11 Roderick Rd, Walton on the Hill, Lancashire
Alexander McKenzie Head M 34 Wood Turner Glasgow, Scotland
Rebecca Do Wife M 34 Armagh City, Ireland
Mary Elizabeth Do Daur 11 Scholar Bootle, Lancashire
Lilian Isabella Do Daur 6 Scholar Do Do
Gertrude Matilda Do Daur 4 Do Do
Edith Kate Do Daur 2 Do Do
Emily Rebecca Do Daur 11 mo Walton Do

[Guinevere]

I wasn't enthralled.

[Olde Crone]

I'm afraid I found the first half of this episode a bit tedious. I am sure his grandfather's wartime experiences were very moving but they were hardly unique and it felt like a school history lesson, not a family history story.

The second bit was much more interesting, not least because I have MacKenzies in my tree from the same area! The Post Runner was almost incredible - can you imagine anyone these days being able, let alone willing, to do such a job day in day out. I was interested to learn that Donald had died at a great age as my McKenzies all lived to a great old age too.

OC

[kiterunner]

Here are Alexander and Rebecca in 1881:
1881 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/LANRG11_3690_3694-0619/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7572&iid=LANRG11_3690_3694-0619&fn=Rebecca&ln=McKenzie&st=d&ssrc=&pid=9180747)
33 Berry St, Bootle, Lancashire
Matilda Squires Head Mar 39 Dressmaker Ireland
James Do Son Unm 16 Joiners apprentice Do
Matilda Do Daur 11 Scholar Bootle Liverpool
George Do Son 8 Do Do Do
Emily Do Daur 5 Do Do Do
Rebecca McKenzie Sister Mar 25 Dressmaker Ireland
Mary E Do Niece 1 Bootle Lpool
Alexander Do Brother in Law Mar 24 Wood Turner Scotland

[kiterunner]

And the 1911 census with Harmans and McKenzies on it:
1911 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_22073_0371_03/20937012?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3d1911england%26so%3d2%26pcat%3 dROOT_CATEGORY%26gss%3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsfn%3dmarg*%26 gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3d*kenzie%26gsln_x%3d1%26mswpn__ ftp_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26mssng0_x%3d1 %26mssns0%3dharman%26mssns0_x%3d1%26gskw_x%3d1%26_ 83004002_x%3d1%26cp%3d0%26catbucket%3drstp&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

22 Poole Rd, Egremont, Cheshire
James J S Harman Head 31 Married Upholsterer Lancs L'pool
Margaret C Harman Wife 29 Married 7 yrs 2 children, 2 living, Lancs Bootle
Emily F Harman Daughter 6 School Cheshire Liscard
James A Harman Son 3 Cheshire Liscard
Rebecca McKenzie Mother-in-law 55 Married 32 years, 8 children, 7 living, 1 died Armagh, Ireland
Gertrude McKenzie Sister in law 24 Single Cork Sorter Lancs Bootle
Emily McKenzie Do 20 Single Packer Lancs Walton
Alexander McKenzie Brother in Law 18 Single Mechanic Lancs Walton

I have found a transcription of Alexander and Rebecca's marriage, 25 Dec 1878 at Walton on the Hill, Lancashire, fathers' names given as John McKenzie and James Elliott. Haven't managed to find an image yet to check this, but Alexander's father is down as John on the 1871 census:
1871 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/LANRG10_3828_3830-0216/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=LANRG10_3828_3830-0216&fn=Alexander&ln=McKenzie&st=d&ssrc=&pid=17055827#?imageId=LANRG10_3828_3830-0215)
8 Rooney St, Kirkdale, Liverpool
John McKenzie Head Mar 45 Railway Porter Rossshire Scotland
Mary Do Wife Mar 36 Greenock
Donald Do Son Unm 16 Joiners Apprentice Glasgow
Alexander McKenzie Son Unm 14 Shop Boy Glasgow Scot
Christena Do Daur 9 Scholar Liverpool
Mary S Do Daur 6 Do Do
David Do Son 4 Do Do
John Harker Lodger Unm 34 Dock Labourer Rothshire Scotd

But I'm sure "John" is really Kenneth!

Edit - yes, here is David's baptism and father's name is Kenneth:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2196/engl56170_283-pet-2-60_m_00062/2808238?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgss%3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsfn%3ddavid%26 gsln%3dmckenzie%26MSAV%3d1%26msbdy%3d1866%26msbpn_ _ftp%3dLiverpool%252c%2bLancashire%252c%2bEngland% 26msbpn%3d92187%26msbpn_PInfo%3d8-%257c0%257c0%257c3257%257c3251%257c0%257c0%257c0%2 57c5271%257c92187%257c0%257c%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11% 26catbucket%3drstp%26uidh%3dvm5%26pcat%3dROOT_CATE GORY%26h%3d2808238%26recoff%3d9%2b10%2b34%2b46%26d b%3dLiverpoolCoEBaptisms%26indiv%3d1%26ml_rpos%3d3&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

[Margaret in Burton]

We enjoyed watching it. Father in law was in North Africa and Italy in WW2. We found it very interesting.

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

Not so interested in the first part but the Scottish bit was interesting, particularly the post runner part.

[Sue from Southend]

We enjoyed watching it. Father in law was in North Africa and Italy in WW2. We found it very interesting.

My father was also in N Africa and Italy - the programme makers are probably very aware that there are huge numbers of us whose father/grandfathers went through the same thing which is why they've included it. But personal interest aside I also thought it was more like a history lesson than a programme about genealogy, the last series was heading that way and I gave up on it, I'll give this one a few weeks to redeem itself....

As an aside I'm sure my Dad would have been telling them that they'd got it all wrong!

[Jill]

We enjoyed watching it. Father in law was in North Africa and Italy in WW2. We found it very interesting.

Same here, f-i-l rarely spoke about it except one evening when he called round without m-i-l to deliver something and stayed for over an hour telling us about his war.

[Margaret in Burton]

Father in law didn't say anything about the horrors of war except to say no, when I asked if he was ever injured.

I think he enjoyed his time in the army. He was called up in 1939 at the age of 19 and wasn't demobbed until 1946. He said he went in a boy and came out a man.
He liked Italy. Ate with an Italian family a lot, then confided that there was a girl involved. We wanted to marry her, we discovered this after he died. His brother told us, and he'd kept her photo. Apparently his father said no, even though he didn't really need his permission and he did as he was told.
Another story he told us was visiting The Vatican. He said that only Catholics were supposed to go. A lot of them pretended they were catholic just to see the place. He said he didn't know how they got away with it as your religion was in your pay book. His said C of E.

[Anstey Nomad]

"He said he went in a boy and came out a man."

That sounds about right. My Dad was called up in 1939 and not demobbed until 1947. He was 21 when he went in and 29 when he came out. He'd been to Ireland, Africa (Sierra Leone) and all across Europe. He was in the RAMC so he'd seen all sorts of stuff, that of course he never talked about.

When he came out, he was a completely different person. Unfortunately though, he had married my mother in May 1940 when she was just 20. She'd spent the war back in Leicester and had not changed at all. Their marriage never recovered from the fact that she hardly saw him for the seven years and when he did come back, he was not the same.

[Shona]

Paul Hollywood was an affable subject. Although I admit to enjoying the second part about Paul's McKenzie branch more than I did the first part about his grandfather.

[Shona]

This is the account of Paul Hollywood's postrunner ancestor from 'Gairloch in north-west Ross-shire: its records, traditions, inhabitants, and natural history with a guide to Gairloch and Loch Maree' by John H. Dixon, from 1886.

It is impossible to fix an exact date when the post was established to Gairloch; it was probably some time in the eighteenth century. In 1730 letters from Inverness and Edinburgh were carried by foot-post.

Originally one 'post-runner' was employed on the service. He seems for a long time to have come regularly only when the laird of Giarloch was in residence at Flowerdale in summer and autumn. The post-runner came from Dingwall bu Strath Baan and Glen Dochartie to the head of Loch Maree, then along the east side of the loch via Letterewe to Poolewe, and then, if necessary, forward to Flowerdale.

Sometimes, during the residence of the laird at Flowerdale, the post-runner seems to have gone by the west side of Loch Maree to Slatadale, and thence over the pass, by the falls of Kerry, to Flowerdale. During the winter months the post was suspended; even in the summer he originally came to Gairloch only once a week. When a second runner was employed the post bags were brought twice a week.

Dr McKenzie, writing of the ten years commencing with 1808, describes the Gairloch post as follows: -

'Then the mail north of the Highland metropolis (Inverness) went on horseback; and when we squatted on the west coast (Gairloch) our nearest post-office was sixty miles away in our county town (Dingwall), and the only letter-carrier was one of my father's (Sir Hector's) attaches, little Duncan, a bit of kilted india-rubber, who, with a sheepskin knapsack on his back to keep his despatches dry (for Mackintosh waterproof had not been invented of then), left the west on Monday, got the sixty miles done on Wednesday, and returning on Thursday delivered up his mail to my father on the Saturday, and was ready to trip off east next Monday; and so on all of the five months of our western stay, doing his one hundred and twenty miles every week! I never heard of his being a day off work in many a year, And what a lot of news was extracted from him ere he got away to his home on Saturday evening! When we retired to the east the natives left behind us for their postal delivery the best way the could.'

James Mackenzie states, that before 1820 there were two Gairloch post-runners viz., Donald Mackenzie, always called Donald Charles, grandfather of the present John Mackenzie (Iain Glas) of Mossbank, Poolewe, and Roderick M'Lennan of Kirkton, father of George M'Lennan of Londubh, who is the present foreman to Mr O.H. Mackenzie.

James Mackenzie thinks that Dr Mackenzie is mistaken in giving the name Duncan to the post-runner he mentions and that it was Donald Charles (who was the last single post-runner) that Dr McKenzie knew in his youth.

This opinion agrees with the fact that Donald Charles always wore the kilt, then falling into disuse among the common people of Gairloch. The kilt seems, however, to have been generally in favour with post-runners, who doubtless found it suitable for their long walks; both Rorie (Roderick M'Lennan) and William Cross (a subsequent post-runner) always wore the kilt, Donald Charles and Rorie alternately brought the post from Dingwall. They came to Poolewe on Wednesdays and Saturdays, walking 'through the rock', ie, via Letterewe, the Bull Rock, and the east side of Loch Maree. When the laird was staying at Flowerdale the post-runners went there first.

John Mackenzie son of Donald Charles, was the last running post to Gairloch. He was called Iain Mor am Post, and was a remarkably strong and courageous Highlander, When the mail-car began to run he emigrated to Australia.

[Rosie Knees]

I also found the first part tedious.

I do wish the programme makers would say where they have found this information and is it only me that was annoyed by the fact that Paul did a search on Ancestry and 'found' his ?xGF "that'll be him". No mention of verifying any generations between?

[kiterunner]

I do wish the programme makers would say where they have found this information and is it only me that was annoyed by the fact that Paul did a search on Ancestry and 'found' his ?xGF "that'll be him". No mention of verifying any generations between?

I thought he was using "The Genealogist" website, not ancestry? But yes, I would have liked to see him quickly check through his uncle's tree step by step.

[Rosie Knees]

It's many years since I've looked at Ancestry; just assumed that was it when he said 'a genealogy website'.

[kiterunner]

They showed it on the screen and it was "The Genealogist".

[Olde Crone]

Thanks Shona, that is fascinating and answers my question to myself of "Did he walk through the winter snows as well?"

OC

[Jen Red Purple]

I was watching this with my gf and a non-tv friend (I converted her to fh the next day). Said to my gf, ooh you have Mackenzie rellies but from that tiny Gairloch place we went to once!

[Olde Crone]

Jen

I have Mackenzies from Gairloch and also from Garioch! So confusing. They don't seem to be related to each other.

OC

[Jen Red Purple]

A copy and paste from a long-ignored file!

THE MACKENZIES OF MOUNTGERALD.

I. COLIN MACKENZIE, first of Mountgerald, was the second surviving
son of Kenneth Mackenzie, VI. of Gairloch, by his third wife,
Janet, daughter of John Cuthbert of Castlehill, Inverness. He
was a Lieutenant in the Scotch Fusilier Guards, and fought at
the battle of Stenkirk, after which he retired from the army,
purchased the estate of Mountgerald and, in 1726, built Woodlands
House. He married, first, Margaret, widow of Roderick Mackenzie
of Findon, daughter of Alexander Mackenzie, I. of Ballone, without
issue. He married, secondly, Katharine, daughter of James Fraser
of Achnagairn (marriage contract 1721), with issue -

1. James, his heir and successor.

2. Alexander, who died, without issue, in 1725.

3. Kenneth, who died in 1727, withoutissue.

4. Colin, who succeeded his brother James.

5. Isabel, who married Sir Lewis Mackenzie, VI. and third Baronet
of Scatwell, with issue.

6. Anne, who married Alexander Mackenzie, II. of Lochend, with
issue.

Colin died in 1727, and was succeeded by his eldest son,

II. JAMES MACKENZIE, second of Mountgerald, who has a sasine as
eldest son dated 15th of April, 1732. He died withoutissue, and
was succeeded by his eldest surviving brother,

III. MAJOR COLIN MACKENZIE, third of Mountgerald, who in 1759,
married Elizabeth, daughter of Sir Roderick Mackenzie, V. and
second Baronet of Scatwell, with issue, an only son,

IV. MAJOR COLIN MACKENZIE, fourth of Mountgerald, who, in 1795,
married Emilia, daughter of Colonel James Fraser of Belladrum
with issue -

1. Colin, his heir and successor.

2. Alexander, who succeeded his brother Colin.

3. Simon Fraser, who succeeded his brother Alexander.

4. Hannah, who died unmarried.

5. Mary, who died unmarried.

6. Eliza, who married, first, David Dick, of Glenshiel.

7. Isabella, who married Archibald Dick, with issue.

8. Sarah, who died unmarried.

9. Jemima, who died unmarried.

Major Colin died in 1824, and was succeeded by his eldest son,

V. COLIN MACKENZIE, fifth of Mountgerald, who died, in Jamaica
without issue, when he was succeeded by his next brother,

VI. ALEXANDER MACKENZIE, sixth of Mountgerald, who also died
without issue, and was succeeded by his next brother,

VII. SIMON FRASER MACKENZIE, seventh of Mountgerald,
a Lieutenant-Colonel in the Madras Cavalry. He married, first,
a daughter of Colonel Pendergast, with issue - an only daughter,
Mary. He married, secondly, Margaret, daughter of General Stewart
without issue. In 1855, he sold Mountgerald to Lewis Mark Mackenzie
of Findon, who died unmarried in 1856.
(No 6, Eliza is probably my OH's)
Jen x