Passenger list to Canada from the UK

[Margaret in Burton]

Does anyone have world Ancestry please?

I have Willoughby John Warren marrying Edith Kate Rust in East Dulwich on 17 Oct 1880.

I know they emigrated to Canada and somewhere along the line the surname changed to Burt.

I can't find them on the 1881 census but that doesn't mean they left before then.

Willoughby also went by the name John Willoughby, and Edith as just Kate or Kathleen.

[kiterunner]

Here is Willoughby on the 1901 Canadian census (free site):
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census/ViewFrame.jsp?id=64169&highlight=47

Neepawa, MacDonald, Manitoba
Currie Mrs Head married 50 born Ont
" May Daughter Single 16 born Ont
" Hugh Son 13 born United States
Burt Willoughby J Lodger born 7 Mar 1860, 41, born England, year of immigration 1881, nationality Canadian, Electrician.

[kiterunner]

This is my transcription of the 1911 census entry from ancestry:

17 Emilie, Montreal St Laurent, Quebec
Burt Willoughby J Head M born Mar 1860 51 born England, year of immigration 1888, nationality Canadian, occupation Electrician
Edith K Wife M born Sep 1863 47 born England, year of immigration 1888, nationality Canadian
Evelyn F Daughter S born June 1889 21 born Quebec, nationality Canadian, occupation Clerk
Edgar J Son S born June 1904 6 born Quebec, nationality Canadian

[kiterunner]

Okay, here is the 1911 census image on the free site:
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=117863

[Margaret in Burton]

Thanks Kate

1901 says he emigrated 1881 but the 1911 says 1888.

It does look as though he was there alone in 1901 and maybe she moved over later.

[kiterunner]

I assume this is them on the 1881 English census:

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/LNDRG11_147_152-0377/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7572&iid=LNDRG11_147_152-0377&fn=Willorby+J.&ln=Warren&st=d&ssrc=&pid=13761785

36 Newnham St, Marylebone, London
Willoby J Warren Head Mar 21 Clerk Middlesex St Georges
Kate " Wife Mar 18 Do Do

[kiterunner]

Thanks Kate

1901 says he emigrated 1881 but the 1911 says 1888.

It does look as though he was there alone in 1901 and maybe she moved over later.

Except their daughter is supposed to have been born in Canada in 1889.

I'm having trouble finding any trace of any of them anywhere! Not found them on any passenger lists yet.

[Margaret in Burton]

Kate, you are brilliant.

[Margaret in Burton]

Except their daughter is supposed to have been born in Canada in 1889.

I'm having trouble finding any trace of any of them anywhere! Not found them on any passenger lists yet.

This change of name doesn't help from Warren to Burt. According to our new member Scott, who I believe is a 3rd cousin of mine, they had a daughter Elsie Annie Warren Burt who he believes was born in England on 20 Aug 1882. I can find no birth reg for her though.

I've emailed Scott with a link to this thread so maybe he will join in. He's in Canada.

[maggie_4_7]

Marg

I think this might be Elsie

Name: Elsie Annie Warren
Registration Year: 1881
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Marylebone
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1a
Page: 595

[Margaret in Burton]

Marg

I think this might be Elsie

Name: Elsie Annie Warren
Registration Year: 1881
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Marylebone
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1a
Page: 595

Thanks Maggie

A year out from the date Scott gave me then.

[Margaret in Burton]

Except their daughter is supposed to have been born in Canada in 1889.

I'm having trouble finding any trace of any of them anywhere! Not found them on any passenger lists yet.

Just a thought, was there another page to that 1901 census where Willoughby was a lodger. He was at the bottom of the page.

I can't see how to access it..

[kiterunner]

I looked at the next page but it started with the next household, Marg.

[Margaret in Burton]

Thanks Kate

[Scott]

First let me thank both of you for all the work. We on this side of "the pond" truly appreciate it.

It seems this mystery is weaving it's way towards some resolution.

To add some information,

- Willoughby John Burt was an electrician who was on a job in Manitoba while the rest of his family (including my grandmother Evelyn b Jun 13, 1889 in Canada (she told me and on gravestone BUT no birth certificate yet). I did find an official church document stating my GGrandmother Burt declared her daughter's dob but....

I'll do a little digging and report later. I'm attempting to track down Elsie Annie Warren Burt and John Earl Mcleod's family. They had a daughter Muriel (sp?) who I spoke w/ 20 yrs ago or so. She's probably passed by now.


Again, thank you both for the impressive work.

[Margaret in Burton]

First let me thank both of you for all the work. We on this side of "the pond" truly appreciate it.

It seems this mystery is weaving it's way towards some resolution.

To add some information,

- Willoughby John Burt was an electrician who was on a job in Manitoba while the rest of his family (including my grandmother Evelyn b Jun 13, 1889 in Canada (she told me and on gravestone BUT no birth certificate yet). I did find an official church document stating my GGrandmother Burt declared her daughter's dob but....

I'll do a little digging and report later. I'm attempting to track down Elsie Annie Warren Burt and John Earl Mcleod's family. They had a daughter Muriel (sp?) who I spoke w/ 20 yrs ago or so. She's probably passed by now.


Again, thank you both for the impressive work.

It's also making me look at my Rust family again Scott.

[Scott]

1901 Census for family that remained in Montreal while father Willoughby was in Manitoba

Original:
http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1901/z/z004/jpg/z000157053.jpg


Typed version:
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census/View.jsp?id=88378&highlight=7&desc=1901+Census+of+Canada+page+containing+Eva+Bur t

Ages, birthday, names close but... BTW, my grandmother Evelyn Francis Burt (Warren :) ) always used the name Eva. Stella, I'm assuming is Elsie but never seen her referred to as such. Look at Willoughby (Will's) date/year of birth and age. Also states that he immigrated in 1850 (the supposed yr of his birth). Note "Stella" (not sure if that's really the name written) is marked with a "Q" (born in Quebec) and N (in an urban area). Probably another mistake.

Some of the variation in information might've been due to a language barrier but most French people understood English well enough back then.

Onward!

[Margaret in Burton]

I don't think that's the same family Scott. Willoughby was born 1860/ 1861 not 1850.
The date of birth is out for Kate as you told me 27th Sept

[Margaret in Burton]

Remember the marriage was in 1880 in London and the eldest child born there in 1881.

I'm positive that's a different family.

[Scott]

I thought the same thing until I saw the info on the kids.

Evelyn's (using Eva) birthday is near the same (1 yr off and 1 month - June and July are often confused when translated) as is Arthur's. The one they call Stella is very close too.

Burt is an uncommon name in Montreal (in fact I've never heard of it) so I might be wrong but I'm betting it was maybe a kid giving the info and/or a census taker who didn't understand English. Mistakes in all the census...but this is the worst yet.

Will's job is listed as Agent ??? can you read the letters? 1911 and 1921 show boarders living w/ Burts so wondering if one was confused for Willoughby?

I'm looking through paperwork to see if I have an address placing them there.

Day-by-day :-)

[kiterunner]

I don't think Arthur had been mentioned on this thread before we saw that 1901 census entry?

This is his WW1 attestation paper:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1086/gpc001-274975a/?backlabel=ReturnBrowsing&dbid=1086&iid=gpc001-274975a&pid=373817&ssrc=&fn=Arthur+James&ln=Burt&st=g

But it doesn't give his parents' details as his next of kin is wife Nellie.

This is the link to his full army record on a free site but I haven't got time to read through it all just now:
http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B1319-S042

[Margaret in Burton]

Good find Kate.

No, I can't make out what it says Scott.

[kiterunner]

Arthur's army record says he was killed in action 1st Sep 1917. The CWGC site says "Son of Willoughby J. and Edith Kate Burt; husband of Nellie G. F. Burt, of 3, Tara Hall Avenue, Montreal."

[Scott]

Kate, Thanks so much. You and Marg work this research like masters.

I have Arthur married to a Georgie Hedley (called Nellie). She's listed as his widow living w/ WJ Burt and EK Burt in 1921 census (Montreal). As I wrote to Marg, I have his dog tags and a letter of condolence from his commanding officer to his mother.

His sister, my Grandmother Evelyn's was a tiny woman (5', very thin). Seems he was built the same way. 35' chest is very small for a man.

As for Edith Kathleen Burt/Warren/Rust

I just located/scanned her signature and believe it matches that of Edith Kate Rust on the Warren/Rust marriage certif.

I'm sending copy to Marg.

[Margaret in Burton]

The marriage I found for Willoughby John Warren and Edith Kate Rust was a parish register copy so will be her actual signature. I've just switched off the laptop for tonight and it takes ages to boot up again, it's getting old. The marriage record is on that.

I'm on my iPad now but will compare those signatures Scott when I switch on again tomorrow.

[kiterunner]

This is the link to the 1921 census entry on ancestry, though you won't be able to access it if you don't have a world sub / credits:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8991/1921_141-E003104127/?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=8991&iid=1921_141-E003104127&fn=Willonghbery+J&ln=Burt&st=d&ssrc=&pid=4722174

3 Tara Hall Av
Burt Willoughby J Head M 61 England year of immigration 1880 Superintendent Electrical
Edith Kate Wife M 56 England year of immigration 1881
Nellie G F Daughter-in-law W 39 Scotland year of immigration 1891

I don't think Automated Genealogy (the free website) have done 1921 yet.

[Scott]

I'm trying my luck with the 1891 Canadian Census. So far none, trying all types of combinations. My grandmother Evelyn Francis Burt said she lived as a young child in Longueuil, a suburb of Montreal. I never heard of her living outside the province of Quebec as a girl although I knew her father had done so on occasion for work.

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/census/1891/Pages/1891.aspx

[kiterunner]

I tried looking for them in 1891 the other day but had no luck.

[Scott]

Thanks for looking. I wonder if they took on an "in-between" name :-)

I tried searching combinations of family first names with no last name just in case but no luck. I'm hoping my father has some clues tucked away.