John Fielding

[BlueSavannah]

Hi, I'm hoping for some help with finding John on most census.

This is my great x 2 grandmother, Elizabeth Rowland's first husband who she married in Sheffield on the 20th November 1882. Marriage cert says he is the son of John Fielding, Table Blade Forger. They have one known child, Eliza Fielding born Sheffield in 1885. By the 1891 census, Elizabeth is now living as the 'wife' of Walter King who she actually didn't marry until the 10th November 1915. But what happened to John? I don't know if their split was mutual or one left the other.

On Ancestry, I have found countless entries for John in the West Yorkshire prison records for HMP Wakefield. There's also an entry for him at Calder Farm Reformatory School on the 5th July 1866. This reform record gives his parents as John Fielding & Mary Ann Fielding of Pond Street, Sheffield.

I've found John on the 71 census at Calder Farm Reform School but that's it. I can't see him on the 61 census (or his parents on this census). Also can't see him on the 81, 1901 or 1911 (if he was still alive). I know he was alive in 1905 as there are two prison records for him. I have found a record on the 1891 census at Arundel Street, Sheffield which I think might be John. He's with a 'wife' Sarah & 'son' Joseph but I am not convinced that they are married or that Joseph aged 8 is his son. I can't find Sarah or Joseph either on the 1901 census.

There is a death in the Rotherham district in 1915 of a John Fielding which I always thought was the right one as it fitted perfectly with Elizabeth suddenly marrying Walter King only months later but I now doubt that this is the right death. As far as I am aware, John never had dealings with Rotherham but also the age of that John is wrong. There was another John living in Brampton Bierlow which comes under Rotherham.

Aside of John, I have a marriage for Eliza Fielding to a relative of her stepfather Walter King but the marriage cert gives her father as George Fielding which even though census etc backs up it being the same Eliza, would giving a different father's name be enough to rule out this marriage or could it be that she just didn't know who her father was (even though she never changed her surname from Fielding to King?).

Any help, much appreciated :)

[kiterunner]

So for reference, this is the 1871 census entry you have found, age hard to make out but maybe 18, birthplace Sheffield Yorkshire:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/WRYRG10_4599_4601-0075/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=WRYRG10_4599_4601-0075&fn=John&ln=Fielding&st=d&ssrc=&pid=28018196

[kiterunner]

And this is the reform school admission record that you found, which also mentions an uncle W G Fielding, also of Pond St, also a table blade maker:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8633/41418_1831109388_2997-00257/7352?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgss%3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3djohn%26gsln%3dfiel ding%26msbdy%3d1853%26msbpn__ftp%3dSheffield%252c% 2bYorkshire%252c%2bEngland%26msbpn%3d1652386%26msb pn_PInfo%3d8-%257c0%257c0%257c3257%257c3251%257c0%257c0%257c0%2 57c5292%257c1652386%257c0%257c%26msfng%3djohn%26cp xt%3d1%26cp%3d4%26catbucket%3drstp%26MSAV%3d1%26ui dh%3dvm5%26pcat%3dROOT_CATEGORY%26h%3d7352%26recof f%3d8%2b9%2b33%2b44%2b45%26db%3dWYorkshireSchoolRe cords%26indiv%3d1%26ml_rpos%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

[BlueSavannah]

Hi Kate, yes those are two of the records that I have found for John. The age on the 71 census is 18 which is consistant with the ages that are given on his later prison records. There is a John Fielding born in the March Q 1853 in Ecclesall Bierlow which is probably him.

I noted the uncle too but I've not found him either :(

John did lie about his age on his marriage to Elizabeth though, he claimed to be 26 when he was more 30. Although Elizabeth lied too. She said she was 19 when she was actually 17.

[kiterunner]

This looks to be his parents in 1871:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/WRYRG10_4668_4670-0027/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=WRYRG10_4668_4670-0027&fn=John&ln=Fielding&st=d&ssrc=&pid=28318246
No 7 Court 2 Trafalgar St, Ecclesall Bierlow, Sheffield, Yorkshire
John Fielding Head Mar 46 Table Knife Blade Forger Yorkshire, Sheffield
Mary Ann Do Wife Mar 32 Do Do
Charles Do Son 12 Do Do
James Do Son 8 Do Do
George Do Son 6 Do Do

[BlueSavannah]

oh that's great, thank you :)

[Merry]

I noted the uncle too but I've not found him either


Would this be him?

1881 census:

40 Pond St Sheffield

William Fielding Boarder Single Male 33 1848 Blade Forger b Sheffield, Yorkshire

He's in the house of a family named Taylor.

[Merry]

The father of Wm 1848 is John, the same age as the John Kate found, so is Wm the brother of John 1853?

[BlueSavannah]

Thank you Merry :) I think he is likely to be John 1853's brother rather than the uncle. Where did you find that William's father was called John?

[Merry]

W F is in Wakefield Prison in 1871 under his initials.

[Merry]

Thank you Merry :) I think he is likely to be John 1853's brother rather than the uncle. Where did you find that William's father was called John?

There was only one Wm Fielding b in Sheffield about 1848 in 1851 so I presumed he was the same Wm!. John was married to Eliza at that date and his mother in law was Maria Thornhill aged 57.

[BlueSavannah]

W F in prison in 1871...that doesn't shock me at all with how often his brother was in there :rolleyes:

Ah, I hadn't looked at the 51 census as until Kate found the 71 census with John senior, I wasn't sure how old the parents were.

[Merry]

Maria Thornhill must have remarried as in 1841 she is Thornhill and her dau is Eliza Gascoigne.


Marriages Dec 1846

Fielding John Sheffield 22 552
Gascoigne Eliza Sheffield 22 552

[Merry]

Second marriage?:


Marriages Jun 1865

Fielding John Sheffield 9c 312
Patman Mary Anne Sheffield 9c 312

[Merry]

But that would mean John jr's mother was Eliza not Mary Ann:


Deaths Jun 1863
FIELDING Eliza Sheffield 9c 226

Still can't find them in 1861

[BlueSavannah]

Thats very interesting. All I have to go on that Mary Ann was John jnr mother was his reform school record. It could be wrong.

I wonder if Eliza being his mother was a factor in calling his only known child Eliza ?

[Merry]

Quite possibly.

I don't think it's surprising his step mother was put down as his mother on the school record.

[kiterunner]

Second marriage?:


Marriages Jun 1865

Fielding John Sheffield 9c 312
Patman Mary Anne Sheffield 9c 312

FMP has a transcription of this marriage with John as a widower, age 38, table blade forger, so it looks right. His father's name is down as William.

[kiterunner]

The Sheffield Indexers website has the baptism of a John Fielding 3 Apr 1825 at Sheffield Parish Church, dob 3 Mar 1825, parents William and Alice, father's occupation blademaker.

[Merry]

John appears in 1841 with his parents here (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/WRYHO107_1333_1335-0071/12734132?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1841%26gss%3da ngs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26 gsfn%3djohn%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dfielding%26gsln_ x%3d1%26mswpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msbdy%3d1825%26msbdy_x% 3d1%26msbdp%3d2%26msbpn__ftp_x%3d1%26gskw%3dyorksh ire%26gskw_x%3d1%26_83004002_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp %3d11%26catbucket%3drstp%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3d672%2 6pcat%3d35%26fh%3d9%26h%3d12734132%26recoff%3d7%2b 8%26ml_rpos%3d10&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord).

[Merry]

William said No for born in County in 1841. I wonder if this (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/WRYRG9_3484_3487-0472/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8767&iid=WRYRG9_3484_3487-0472&fn=Wm&ln=Fielding&st=d&ssrc=&pid=11549106)is him in 1861? (can't see him in 1851. Alice may have died in 1847)

[Merry]

Oh, here's (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/YRKHO107_2337_2337-1437/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=8860&iid=YRKHO107_2337_2337-1437&fn=William&ln=Fielding&st=d&ssrc=&pid=14131974) Wm in 1851 with a new wife, so you could pick up his father's name from the cert (if you can find the right one!):

Note there are Kings next door!

[BlueSavannah]

Good Morning Merry & Kate.

Many thanks for all the info regarding John's father and grandfather :) I wonder what happened to John jnr apart from a lifetime in HMP Wakefield. I get the feeling that Elizabeth left him after yet another stint in there.

[Merry]

Hmmmm, I've been looking at other people b Ring* (moor/more) Sussex living in Sheffield, to see if I could work out Mary Fielding's previous surname(s). No luck with that yet, but I did discover she is listed twice in 1851. First with William Fielding and also as the widowed housekeeper of Wm Hall aged 83. This Mary is 55 not 57, but it seems likely to be the same woman, given her place of birth!

[Merry]

Mary Fielding says she is a widow in 1861 too, yet her husband was in the workhouse (unless there are two Marys!)

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/WRYRG9_3469_3471-0213/11466777?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1861%26gss%3da ngs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3dmar y%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln_x%3d1%26mswpn__ftp_x%3d1%26m sbdy%3d1794%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d5%26msbpn__ftp _x%3d1%26gskw%3dsussex%2byorkshire%26gskw_x%3d1%26 _83004002_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26catbucket%3 drstp%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3d672%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d4 %26h%3d11466777%26recoff%3d%26ml_rpos%3d5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord#?imageId=WRYRG9_3469_3471-0213

[BlueSavannah]

I found that Fielding turned to be quite a common name in Sheffield so its possible there are two Mary's.

[Merry]

Two from the same place in Sussex though! And both spelling it Ringmoor instead of Ringmer!

[Merry]

I forgot William was apparently a widower in 1861 so, as you said, maybe there are two Marys, though I did wonder if they split up and were never actually married? That could explain the double entry in 1851 and his marital status in 1861.

[Merry]

Re John jr, have you considered this one for the 1881 census?

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/WRYRG11_4643_4646-0323/25535686?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1881%26indiv%3dtry%26h%3d2 5535686&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

I can't see a marriage to fit!

[Merry]

Have you signed up to Sheffield Records Online? (http://www.sheffieldrecordsonline.org.uk/)

[BlueSavannah]

Hi Merry, apologies for late reply, been to the coast for a lovely few hours with my toddlers.

I do have an account with Sheffield Records Online but not used the site in a long while as I always use Sheffield Indexers as I transcribe/check for them.

That 1881 census is very interesting. Everything matches for it being the same John...age/occupation/birth place. The area he's living in is fairly close to the church he married Elizabeth in in 1882. Hmmm, so he's saying he's married to Sophia or the head of household assumed so. He claimed to be a bachelor on his 1882 marriage but what's another crime to him on his long list of crimes lol.

[Merry]

I couldn't find a marriage to Sophia, so perhaps more likely they were not married and he was a bachelor in 1882. He sounds like a fast mover!

Are you certain the 1905 (or did you say 1907?) criminal record docs were for this John?

[BlueSavannah]

Yes, i'm certain the two prison records in 1905 for John was the same John. All his personal info is the same and the first of the two records has written that he had attended Calder Farm.

I agree that they probably weren't married but it wouldn't shock me at all if he was a bigamist lol.

[Merry]

I wonder how your relative got him up the aisle?

[BlueSavannah]

I wonder how your relative got him up the aisle?

Haha no idea, he spent more time in prison than he did at work in Sheffield :rolleyes:

Now Elizabeth was clearly poor as her parents ended up in the workhouse not long after the 1891 census and stayed there until their deaths. Her mother Lydia was one of the witnesses to her marriage so she clearly had no issues with her daughter adding a couple of years to her age to be able to marry. I wonder if Lydia also knew that John had shaved a few years off his age to make himself look younger?

I still think this is John in 1891. He age is transcribed as 32 but looking at the image, it is 38 which is right. I don't think he married this Sarah either and I don't think that the child is his son, I think its her son.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=uki1891&h=5181611

[Merry]

I tried hard to work out who Sarah (and/or Joseph) from East Markham was, to no avail :o

[BlueSavannah]

I tried hard to work out who Sarah (and/or Joseph) from East Markham was, to no avail :o

Me too. I just can't find any Sarah or Joseph born in East Markham elsewhere. But I also can't find John Fielding Jnr on the 1901 census (or the 1911 if he's still alive).

I am still a little doubtful now that the 1915 death of John Fielding in Rotherham is the right man. It did fit perfectly with Elizabeth suddenly marrying Walter King in the next quarter but the facts of that John just don't fit. I've got no previous links to Rotherham at all, the age is wrong and there was another John living in Brampton Bierlow who this death could be.