View Full Version : Caroline Easter Reffell
Can anyone please help me trace Caroline on the 1841 census?
The following year she became 2xg grandfather Henry William Headland's 2nd
wife, giving her address as 27 Greece Street. She was b 1821, parents Thomas
& Johanna Reffell & d 1849, aged 28 - the same age as HW's 1st wife, my 2xg
grandmother (!)
Sorry folks - forgot to add "London" to above post.
kiterunner
07-06-15, 14:51
UK Census Online has a Caroline Reffell age 20 listed, in London, birthplace out of county, and a Caroline Ruffell age 20 in Surrey. I'll see if I can find them on ancestry now given that they are probably mistranscribed on there... or maybe the "Ruffell" one is mistranscribed on UK Census Online.
kiterunner
07-06-15, 15:04
Not found her on ancestry yet but are these her parents and siblings in 1851?
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/MDXHO107_1466_1467-0228/2050484?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1851%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dROO T_CATEGORY%26gss%3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn_x%3d1 %26gsln%3dr*f*l%26gsln_x%3d1%26mswpn__ftp_x%3d1%26 msfng%3dtho*%26msfng_x%3d1%26msfns_x%3d1%26msmng%3 dj*n*a%26msmng_x%3d1%26msmns_x%3d1%26gskw_x%3d1%26 _83004002_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d4%26catbucket%3d rstp%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
17 Bishops Mews, Paddington, London, Middlesex
Thomas Reffell Head Married 53 Plumber Painter Hoxton Middlesex
Johanna Reffell Wife Married 53 Bisbrook Rutlandshire
Mary Reffell Daur Un 16 Hoxton Middlesex
Maria Reffell Daur Un 14 Islington Middlesex
Ann Reffell Daur Un 10 Scholar Paddington Middlesex
William Carter Visitor Un 25 Ostler Uxbridge Middlesex.
Should make it easier to find them in 1841 and maybe Caroline will be with them.
kiterunner
07-06-15, 15:15
On FMP there is this household at Shere, Surrey, in 1841:
Elizabeth Reffell 45 Ind Yes
Caroline Do 20 Y
Maybe the one transcribed as Ruffell on UK Census Online but probably not your Caroline.
Thanks Kite - no, don't believe last one is mine, but Thomas the plumber & painter looks
like her dad. I have her siblings as Joseph, John, Mary Ann & Annie, so that probably
right. "Reffell" is often wrongly transcribed - on her marriage cert its shown as "Reffle" but
she's signed it "Reffell""
kiterunner
07-06-15, 15:36
Ancestry says that Paddington parish is missing from the 1841 census so maybe Thomas and Johanna and their family are lost (since Ann is supposed to have been born in Paddington around 1841). But I wish I could find the Caroline Reffell who is listed on UK Census Online on another site! Of course she could be mistranscribed on UK Census Online and not really a Reffell at all.
Its always the one you want that's missing, isn't it? I'm hoping to find her occupation for
a piece I'm preparing on HW.
Its always the one you want that's missing, isn't it? I'm hoping to find her occupation for
a piece I'm preparing on HW.
I'm sorry to be able to confirm that Bishops Mews is not in my CD index of 1841 street names. I checked a few other nearby streets - Bishops Bridge Road, Porchester Terrace, Westbourne Terrace - and they are missing too.
You have my sympathy as I have loads of people missing in 1841 in that area and over in Notting Hill and North Kensington.
Could this be Caroline? She's aged 15 but allowing for ages being up to 5yrs younger it is a possible. Indexed on Ancestry as Caroline Ressele there's also a John Ressele age 13 in the same household.
HO107; Piece: 694; Book: 1; Folio: 55; Page: 25;
kiterunner
07-06-15, 18:57
The consonants in the middle of that surname are s's, not f's, Libby, because only the first of the two is f-shaped, like in the word "Brass" in the Occupation column a few lines further down.
her address as 27 Greece Street. She was b 1821, parents Thomas
Incidentally, I cannot find a reference anywhere to Greece Street!!!!
Incidentally, I cannot find a reference anywhere to Greece Street!!!!
I know, Libby! I'm wondering about Greek Street?
I know, Libby! I'm wondering about Greek Street?
I too considered Greek St but cannot find a reference to it in 1841, also it wouldn't be in the parish of St George Bloomsbury.
I'm struggling to think where Henry and Caroline lived which could have been misheard by the vicar,
Greek Street is in St Anne Soho, so that's the next parish to Bloomsbury. The 1841 index says it is in piece 730, book/district 1 and starts on page 2. A quick search for a Caroline with those details on Ancestry doesn't yield anything promising, but you could trawl the street fairly easily.
I've just found GRESSE STREET, it is only half a mile from St George's Bloomsbury.
I've just found GRESSE STREET, it is only half a mile from St George's Bloomsbury.
That's St Pancras rather than Bloomsbury according to the index - piece 686, book 2 in 1841.
That's St Pancras rather than Bloomsbury according to the index - piece 686, book 2 in 1841.
Yes, but it's the only street name I can find which sounds like GREECE and is anywhere near St George's.
kiterunner
07-06-15, 22:35
Googling brought up a mention from the London Gazette in 1846 of "Greece-street, Tottenham-court-road", and Gresse Street is off a street which is off Tottenham Court Road, while Greek Street is very close too.
Also Connected Histories has a mention of a J Rowney, 2 Greece-street, from 1840 but I can't view the actual image on there to check it.
Googling brought up a mention from the London Gazette in 1846 of "Greece-street, Tottenham-court-road", and Gresse Street is off a street which is off Tottenham Court Road, while Greek Street is very close too.
Difficult to know which street was being referred to on the marriage cert isn't it? I've taken a trip down Gresse Street but not found any Headland's, Reffell's or Dickens (who were witnesses to the marriage and Henry's brother in law and sister, I think)
kiterunner
07-06-15, 22:49
Another London Gazette hit, from 1834, mentions "Greece-Street, Rathbone-Place", which would be Gresse Street, going by the present-day map.
Thanks for your efforts, all. I've been looking at HW's various other addresses in the hope
of a clue, but nothing looks likely. Thanks to his numerous court appearances &
imprisonment his movements are pretty well documented but nothing looks like Greece
St. In 1841 he's in Chapel St, Islington - presumably to be near family after my 2xg
grandmother's death in 1838 left two children under five - & an 1853 summons refers to
him living at 41 West St,New Road, St Pancras,& being late of 39 Seymour St, Euston
Square.In 1833 he was a York Place, Upper St, Islington & had also lived at Frances Place,
Holloway & 8 Moon St, Islington. As well as having rotten luck with wives, he also seems
to have moved around a lot.
Libby - no, Sarah Dickens (Dickins?)wasn't HW's sister. I don't know who the Dickens
they were(sorry!) and although HW's brother did get to know the great Charles around
1842,I don't believe there is a connection there either. Anyway, brother was the
ambitious one - HW was just a humble dyer & scourer.
Libby - no, Sarah Dickens (Dickins?)wasn't HW's sister. I don't know who the Dickens they were(sorry!) .
If not Sarah's brother, perhaps a cousin?
There's this marriage at St James, Paddington 2oth June 1830
George Dickins and Sarah Ann Headland, one of the witnesses was HENRY WILLIAM HEADLAND.
If not Sarah's brother, perhaps a cousin?
There's this marriage at St James, Paddington 2oth June 1830
George Dickins and Sarah Ann Headland, one of the witnesses was HENRY WILLIAM HEADLAND.
Very interesting, Libby! I haven't come across Sarah Ann before, but you might
just have found something that will make a lot a other things clearer.
HW's father Thomas's parentage was a stubborn brick wall, eventually
identified here as most likely Isaac & Sarah Headland of Uxbridge - your
discovery might well settle that. Plus, there's links to other Headlands in
Uxbridge, Kent & Beds/Northants to tie in - so well done, you clever old thing!
Now, for Sarah Ann .......
OK.... looks like Sarah Ann was b abt 1812 in Uxbridge, daughter of William Headland.
Children with George Dickens were George William 1831, Cecilia Jane 1843 (big gap
there) Harriett 1845, Charlotte 1847 & Alice 1850.
Seem to remember a William Headland was a bone of contention for Merry & others when
trying to establish parentage of Thomas Headland b Uxbridge 1786, father of HW.
Off to check that out now - do feel free to pitch in as I'm not that good at this!
Pleased to see you're progressing, Vita. I've some jobs to do now but will take a look here later.
Pleased to see you're progressing, Vita. I've some jobs to do now but will take a look here later.
Thanks Libby. I've been reading through link "A Stubborn Brick Wall" & I was
right about a William. Looking likely HW did have an uncle of that name.
OK.... looks like Sarah Ann was b abt 1812 in Uxbridge, daughter of William Headland.!
Vita, have you found a baptism naming her father William?
I ask as if not I'm inclined to think she was the dau of Thomas and Christiana and here's why.
City of London Lying-In Hospital, City Road, Finsbury, baptised 31 Jul 1833
Sarah Christiana Dickens dau of Sarah Ann and George (cabinet maker) abode: N. Road.
Of course the middle name doesn't prove anything but feels more 'right' for Sarah Ann to choose her mother's name,
Oh dear, are we going one step forward and two back!
Children with George Dickens were George William 1831, Cecilia Jane 1843 (big gap
there) Harriett 1845, Charlotte 1847 & Alice 1850.
From the 1841 census there's also Mary Ann aged 4 and Eliza aged 2.
Sadly I think some of their children must have died between census.
Here's some baptisms all with father George and mother Sarah or Sarah Ann depending on the record
Name: George William Dickens
Mother: Sarah
Father: George Dickens
Birth: 25 Jul 1831
Baptism: 25 Dec 1831 - Old Church,Saint Pancras,London,England
Name: Thomas Henry Dickens
Birth: 9 Jun 1835
Baptism: 27 Jul 1836 - Old Church,Saint Pancras,London,England
Name: Mary Ann Dickens
Birth: 14 Mar 1837
Baptism: 22 May 1847 - Old Church,Saint Pancras,London,England
Name: Eliza Dickens
Birth: 14 May 1839
Baptism: 20 Nov 1847 - Old Church,Saint Pancras,London,England
Name: Cecilia Jane Dickens
Birth: 5 Jan 1843
Baptism: 13 May 1854 - Old Church,Saint Pancras,London,England
Name: Harriet Dickens
Birth: 5 Mar 1845
Baptism: 13 May 1854 - Old Church,Saint Pancras,London,England
Name: Charlotte Dickens
Birth: 14 Dec 1846
Baptism: 22 May 1847 - Old Church,Saint Pancras,London,England
Name: Alice Dickens
Birth: 5 Aug 1850
Baptism: 13 May 1854 - Old Church,Saint Pancras,London,England
Libby - no, not a baptism, but a ref to Sarah Ann being the daughter of William Headland
& his wife Mary, nee White. If Sarah Ann is indeed the daughter of Thomas & Christiana
she's been hidden to all - not that I'm saying you're definitely wrong, you understand.
T & C would have been in Uxbridge around the time of her birth - daughter Mary Ann was
b there 1810. They did give the name Christiana to another daughter though - Charlotte
Christiana b 1817.
Merry - sorry to bring a William back into the mix, but I really do think there's a chance
of getting to the bottom of things now.
Don't you just love it when one thing leads to another completely different one?
Will pick it up again tomorrow.
Libby - no, not a baptism, but a ref to Sarah Ann being the daughter of William Headland.
Please can you say what the reference is?
not that I'm saying you're definitely wrong, you understand.
Oh Vita, I don't mind at all being wrong, my main concern is that you follow the right folks and why I'm looking at all possibilities.
It's a pity we haven't found Sarah Ann's baptism, she says on 1851 census born Uxbridge so that is the first place to look.
This Non-Conformist Register for Uxbridge 1812-1826 is in poor condition with some print missing. There's a baptism for an Ann Headland which looks like it has a first given name missing also parents names are not legible - how annoying. Could be Sarah Ann Headland but if so we'll never know who her parents were via PR's. It's the record on left side 5th down list
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2972/40612_B0149761-00006/2557085?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3dUKNonConformistVi tals%26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26g sln%3dheadland%26gsln_x%3dNN%26msbdy%3d1814%26msbd y_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d2%26msbpn__ftp%3dmiddlesex%26MSA V%3d1%26uidh%3dun5%26pcat%3d34%26fh%3d1%26h%3d2557 085%26recoff%3d8%26ml_rpos%3d2&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord#?imageId=40612_B0149761-00005
It appears there was a Thomas Hughes Headland born years before 'yours', and he too was a silversmith.......could be a connection!
http://www.christies.
com/lotfinder/lot/claret-thomas-hughes-headland-circa-1780-1973964-details.aspx?intObjectID=1973964
Sorry its taken so long to reply Libby - at Dr's with OH this morning. You probably realise
we cross - posted last night, so thanks for details of children.
Uxbridge records - another case of just the one you want being unavailable!
The Christie's ref for Thomas Hughes Headland has cropped up before & antique dealer
OH assures me its a mistake.Even major auction houses do make them, he says.
Apparently, it all rests on the silver mark. Thomas's wasn't registered until 1834 & if
that mark had been used previously he could not have chosen the same one.
Returning to Sarah Ann - my feeling is she's HW's cousin, daughter of William b abt
1787 Uxbridge, who was brother of HW's father Thomas, b abt 1786 Uxbridge.
I realise this causes a problem with the likely parentage of Thomas 1786, as the
candidate for mother, Sarah Headland, husband of Isaac who'd done a runner around
1800, says she has two sons -Thomas & Robert - with no mention of a William.
Not sure where that leaves things, but Sarah Ann is a major find & I live in hope, so
thanks again.
Found ref by Googling "Sarah Ann Headland" - www.wikitree.com/wiki/Headland - 18
No idea how accurate that might be, though.
Not a problem, Vita, there's never a hurry as the dead aren't going anywhere. I do wish we could unearth Sarah Ann Headland's baptism, I (sorry) remain unconvinced she was William and Mary's dau, the wiki link naming her as dau of William and Mary has no source record and William and Mary were married in 1807 at Spitalfields Christ Church. Have other children been found for William and Mary and if so when/where we they baptised?
Remind me has a baptism been found for William a son of Sarah and Isaac?
Your OH reasoning re the silver mark sounds good.
I thought as a more experienced researcher you might find the wiki link weak. This is
where I appreciate a firm guiding hand. No - no siblings of Sarah Ann have appeared yet.
No baptism found for a William, son of Isaac & Sarah either.
Its only a gut feeling, but I've always had doubts about I & S being mine, despite them
having a Thomas whose b would fit & a Robert who crops up amongst mine too.
No doubt about it, Sarah Ann appears to be the key ........
Must say OH is usually right about all things antique related - awesome amount of
knowledge on that topic.
OK Vita, thanks for the clarification. This evening I'll read through your other thread concerning these folks to see what has been established, and see whether I'm able to add anything.
I'll look more closely at Isaac and Sarah too. Headland is a name often mis-read or mis - heard and therefore indexed wrongly - doesn't help, does it? But hey, it's part of the fun of the chase.
I took a cursory look at your other thread and see lots of good info was found.
I'm afraid I can't face going back through the old thread and only have a tenuous grasp of your Headland family! I just wondered if you have a death record for Sarah Ann Dickens? I noticed her daughters, Charlotte and Alice, were admitted to the workhouse in 1855.
George is a widower in 1881, but I can't find him in 61/71. He might be on one of the missing pieces in 1861.
OK Vita, thanks for the clarification. This evening I'll read through your other thread concerning these folks to see what has been established, and see whether I'm able to add anything.
I'll look more closely at Isaac and Sarah too. Headland is a name often mis-read or mis - heard and therefore indexed wrongly - doesn't help, does it? But hey, it's part of the fun of the chase.
I took a cursory look at your other thread and see lots of good info was found.
Thanks so much Libby - very grateful. Yes, I've seen Headland as Edland,
Edling, & even Haldane.
Info found was good wasn't it? So glad I found you all here.
Merry - can't say I blame you. No, nothing concrete for Sarah Ann's death -
just the date 1865 from the wikitree.
just the date 1865 from the wikitree.
I don't see any likely death reg to fit a death in that year.
I missed this baptism off the list for children of Sarah Ann and George Dickens.
He was baptised the same day and church as Alice.
Alfred born 20th Aug 1853, son of Sarah Ann and George (cabinet maker)baptised 13th May 1854.
I therefore believe this 1861 census is George with another wife?? (haven't as yet found a marriage) Indexed on Ancestry as Wickens and does look like a W not D however I think it has to be him, remember the census sheet was filled out by either the householder or if illiterate a friend, neighbour or A N Other and then copied into the enumerators book, therefore always open to error.
RG 9; Piece: 70; Folio: 82; Page: 2
George Wickens 48, cabinet maker, Cambridgeshire
Mary A Wickens 49, Ireand
Alfred Wickens 7, St Pancras
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/MDXRG9_68_71-0412/380055?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1861%26indiv%3dtry%26h%3d3 80055&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
And this looks like Alfred's marriage, a pity no Dicken's was a witness
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31280_199210-01043/4564133?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3dalfred%26gsfn_x%3d NN%26gsln%3ddick%253fns%26gsln_x%3dNP_NN%26msbdp%3 d2%26msbpn__ftp%3dSt%2bPancras%252c%2bMiddlesex%25 2c%2bEngland%26msbpn%3d85759%26msbpn_PInfo%3d8-%257c0%257c0%257c3257%257c3251%257c0%257c0%257c0%2 57c5275%257c85759%257c0%257c%26msrpn__ftp%3dLondon %252c%2bEngland%26msrpn%3d5274%26msrpn_PInfo%3d7-%257c0%257c0%257c3257%257c3251%257c0%257c0%257c0%2 57c5274%257c0%257c0%257c%26msgdy%3d1876%26msgdy_x% 3d1%26msgdp%3d5%26msypn__ftp%3dLondon%252c%2bEngla nd%26msypn%3d5274%26msypn_PInfo%3d7-%257c0%257c0%257c3257%257c3251%257c0%257c0%257c0%2 57c5274%257c0%257c0%257c%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26MS AV%3d1%26uidh%3dun5%26pcat%3dBMD_MARRIAGE%26h%3d45 64133%26recoff%3d10%2b11%2b32%26db%3dLMAmarriages% 26indiv%3d1%26ml_rpos%3d3&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
Alfred can be easily found on census with his wife and famiy
Crikey Vita, it truly is a difficult search isn't it? No marriage found for Thomas and Christiana, no definite baptism found for Thomas, or Robert who must fit into your family of Headlands'. I haven't had a lot of time to search but will try again later, must try to sleep now.
I did search the Uxbrindge nonconformist register 1790 > page by page but didn't find any Headlands other than the ones already found.
Could this be Caroline? She's aged 15 but allowing for ages being up to 5yrs younger it is a possible. Indexed on Ancestry as Caroline Ressele there's also a John Ressele age 13 in the same household.
HO107; Piece: 694; Book: 1; Folio: 55; Page: 25;
The consonants in the middle of that surname are s's, not f's, Libby, because only the first of the two is f-shaped, like in the word "Brass" in the Occupation column a few lines further down.
I take your point, Kite, and you may well be right but as I mentioned previously the census returns we see are not the originals but copied from the enumerators book and if he was unable to decipher he'd make a calculated guess. The reason I think the census is a possible is John who is age 13 is about the right age to be Caroline's brother. Perhaps worth considering? Vita, maybe you can look for a John and Caroline Russell and if found then forget the 1841 census.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1558/31281_A101319-00111/741371?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgss%3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3djohn%26gsfn_x%3dNN %26gsln%3dreffel%26gsln_x%3dNP_NN%26msbdy_x%3d1%26 msbdp%3d10%26MSAV%3d1%26msbdy%3d1821%26msfng%3dtho mas%26msmng%3djoanna%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26catbuc ket%3drstp%26uidh%3dun5%26pcat%3dROOT_CATEGORY%26h %3d741371%26recoff%3d8%2b9%2b27%2b28%2b39%2b40%26d b%3dLMAbirths%26indiv%3d1%26ml_rpos%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
And I really MUST try to get some sleep now, hope I don't dream about Headlands, Dickens or Ruffells. :rolleyes: :D
Know how you feel Libby - I've been dreaming about them for some time now!
It is a difficult one, isn't it? When I first started I thought I'd never make headway, what
with five generations of eldest sons named Henry William & other researchers adamant
about Christiana's maiden name being Hughes, not Atkinson.
Still, I've made more progress here than anywhere else - family researchers have been
trying to crack this one for years. So, no pressure then .........
Merry - that info on two of Sarah Ann's daughters entering the workhouse would seem to
fit with her possible death around the mid 1850s, wouldn't it?
FreeBMD has a Sarah Dickins d June 1855 St Pancras.
FreeBMD has a Sarah Dickins d June 1855 St Pancras.
Not long before her younger daughters were admitted to the workhouse. There's a discharge the following year for the girls plus their father and a younger brother (haven't searched under their names yet), Alfred. they were being transferred to Marylebone. Don't have time to type up now but they are easy to find.
Not long before her younger daughters were admitted to the workhouse. There's a discharge the following year for the girls plus their father and a younger brother (haven't searched under their names yet), Alfred. they were being transferred to Marylebone. Don't have time to type up now but they are easy to find.
Thanks Merry.
If Sarah Ann is the child baptised in 1814 at the independent church in Uxbridge, isn't she more likely to be a child of Thomas and Christiana, as they seem to be the only couple using that church?
Also, when you said you thought her father was William, did you mean the William who married Mary White or the one who married Harriet Birch? (maybe this question could be answered f I could see the WikiTree page, but it just says t'his page can't be found' :o)
If Sarah Ann is the child baptised in 1814 at the independent church in Uxbridge, isn't she more likely to be a child of Thomas and Christiana, as they seem to be the only couple using that church?
Also, when you said you thought her father was William, did you mean the William who married Mary White or the one who married Harriet Birch? (maybe this question could be answered f I could see the WikiTree page, but it just says t'his page can't be found' :o)
Damn! another case of "just the one you want" missing.
I thought William who married Mary White, but only because Wikitree said so
but that, as Libby said, has no source so can't be relied on.
Agree it would look as if Sarah is daughter of T & C, but I'm surprised other
researchers have haven't found her before. B would fit - Mary Ann was 1812 &
Charlotte Christiana 1817.There were other Headlands in Uxbridge at that
time, including another family who ended up in Chapel Street, Islington at
the same time as mine (that's always seemed a bit of a coincidence to me)
but obviously not using same church.
Unsure if you've come across baptism certificates naming those present (sponsors?) So far I've found two Henry William's and Mary Ann's children of Thomas and Christina. Let me know if you don't already have them and I'll post names. Going to see now if I can find anything else.
vita, do you have your Headland tree online anywhere I can look at it, please?
vita, do you have your Headland tree online anywhere I can look at it, please?
Sorry Merry, I don't - but if there's anything in particular you were thinking of
checking, I may be able to help.
Thomas Hughes and Henry William also both had Mary Ann Atkinson as a sponsor.
Thomas Hughes also: I think Ann Moore but possibly Ann Wrose.
Henry William also: Elizabeth Crook
No not really vita - there are so many threads, I expect most things I see online you already have, but it's all too random to keep asking, plus, I often forget the question because I'm moving on to the next thing!!
I suppose I'm confused about the generation who were having children in Uxbridge and London in the 1800s, '10s and '20s and how these children's father's fit together (brothers, cousins etc?). I see there's a couple of Williams, your Thomas and maybe an Isaac and a Richard (or was it Robert?). It would be helpful to know which of these have a year of birth and a father!
Thomas Hughes and Henry William also both had Mary Ann Atkinson as a sponsor.
Thomas Hughes also: I think Ann Moore but possibly Ann Wrose.
Henry William also: Elizabeth Crook
Thanks so much Libby - Crook doesn't ring a bell, but those other Headlands -
the ones in Chapel St Islington same time as mine - their mother's maiden
name was Moore.
Just checking Harriot Trenley - think Sarah, wife of Isaac had sister Harriot
b1759.
No not really vita - there are so many threads, I expect most things I see online you already have, but it's all too random to keep asking, plus, I often forget the question because I'm moving on to the next thing!!
I suppose I'm confused about the generation who were having children in Uxbridge and London in the 1800s, '10s and '20s and how these children's father's fit together (brothers, cousins etc?). I see there's a couple of Williams, your Thomas and maybe an Isaac and a Richard (or was it Robert?). It would be helpful to know which of these have a year of birth and a father!
I know - I do feel bad at making it even more difficult for you. No father for
Thomas, Robert or assorted Williams I'm afraid - but make no mistake about it,
this is real progress. Exciting stuff - you're making an old lady very happy!
you're making an old lady very happy!
lol vita - well Libby is; I don't think I've done anything yet!!
lol vita - well Libby is; I don't think I've done anything yet!!
Don't sell yourself short. Have to bail out now to tend to OH but will back
tomorrow. Will tell Libby same.
I'm afraid I can't face going back through the old thread and only have a tenuous grasp of your Headland family!
Well, you will be riveted to know I have just spent from 6.30am until now going through the 16 threads posted by you and blueangel regarding the Headland families. I have two pages of cryptic notes that I hope to make into a skeleton tree and hang on to, so I don't have to read al the threads again (ever!!). Let's hope I can still understand my cryptic notes by tomorrow evening, as I probably won't have time to go through them until then :eek:
Time to get out of bed now (lol :o:o:o) and see if the kids are awake :rolleyes:. Son finished his GCSEs yesterday, so is having a long lie-in!
Above & beyond the call of duty, Merry - what can I say except express my grovelling
thanks. That goes for Libby too. Tremendously excited by this breakthrough. I'm all over
the web trying to make connections but I know I'm not good enough. You all are though,
& I'm so very grateful.
Hopefully, putting the info together will mean I don't run away every time you post a Headland thread!
I did the same with the other Libby's (harrysmum) Ariel tree (she has a lot more threads than you! lol) and I still have the tree I produced a few years back for similar reasons. Haven't looked at that one in ages, but if she ever posts another question I will be ready! lol
Hopeless aren't I? Never seem to have enough time to get myself really organised.
Reams of notes that would be a nightmare for anyone else to refer to,but that I know
almost off by heart!. Ashamed to say I was the same at work - a clear desk policy was
never going work for me. But thanks again - so very much appreciated.
A final thought - do hope you haven't gone to this trouble because you're sick of me
going on about my illusive Headlands & want to get rid of me once and for all(!)
lol No!!!
Erm, don't you have all this on any sort of tree program? *frets*
If I don't reply I've gone out!!
lol No!!!
Erm, don't you have all this on any sort of tree program? *frets*
If I don't reply I've gone out!!
:D
Vita, please say you do have it all on a tree programme. If you don't you must have a super duper memory, lol.
Realise I must be the despair of you, but don't really know what you mean by tree
programme.
Here's what happened when I began five years ago :- after establishing the bare basics
an amateur genealogist friend of a friend took over & provided me with a fuller picture
ie partial tree going back to Thomas b 1786. She explained it was by no means complete
but as much as she could undertake at the time & it was at least enough detail for me
pick up some threads & progress. Apart from my reams, of notes, that's all I do have.
Please don't expel me for incompetence.
Uncle John
13-06-15, 13:38
Please put away the dunce's cap immediately! I inherited reams of paper family tree info from my late uncle, who had gathered a lifetime's "stuff" from all branches of the family. I purchased Family Tree Maker when I got my first computer over 20 years ago and started to transfer the information. It took ages but made a lot more sense when it was all linked together.
You can pick up last year's Family Tree Maker for a lot less than the retail price and if you work back logically from "you", as you should, in no time at all you'll have a work of art which clearly shows your info. in an accessible form.
Thank you, Uncle John :). You've just saved me typing out a similar answer to yours.
Vita, it will be laborious for you in the beginning as you must now have so much to input, but it will be worth it in the end.
Thanks OJ - its good to know I'm not a totally lost cause. Promise I will do it - trouble is,
there always seems to be something more pressing.
Libby - I don't actually mind laborious. I find it quite therapeutic if I've got time to spend
on the task.
Sorry UJ - just noticed I called you OJ & we don't want to go there, do we ??????
Vita, why not have a play around with the tree facility on Ancestry. Go to 'Family Trees' on the band across the top on home page, click and select 'start a new tree'. If you add a few names each day you'll soon have a tree to be proud of. There's an option to make your tree private or public.
Vita, why not have a play around with the tree facility on Ancestry. Go to 'Family Trees' on the band across the top on home page, click and select 'start a new tree'. If you add a few names each day you'll soon have a tree to be proud of. There's an option to make your tree private or public.
Thanks for that Libby. Have you seen my 'Ann Headland' post on 'A Stubborn
Brick Wall'?
Its all happening today!
Caroline's d/cert also arrived yesterday & I'm a bit confused about cause of death. This is
what it says:-
Puerperal
Typhoid (this is struck through) 2
Typhoid Fever
7 days
certified
Would this mean she was pregnant & that was the 1st cause and that typhoid fever was
was the secondary cause, or that she had something called puerperal typhoid fever?
I've been unable to trace a disease of that name.
kiterunner
11-07-15, 10:11
Puerperal is "relating to childbirth", not pregnancy. The dictionary says that puerperal fever was "originally any fever occurring in connection with childbirth, now confined to endometriosis or septicaemia caused by the introduction of bacteria into the genital tract". So maybe her puerperal fever was caused by typhus?
Puerperal is "relating to childbirth", not pregnancy. The dictionary says that puerperal fever was "originally any fever occurring in connection with childbirth, now confined to endometriosis or septicaemia caused by the introduction of bacteria into the genital tract". So maybe her puerperal fever was caused by typhus?
Sorry Kite - should have said childbirth. Thanks for that.
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