1 Redcar street,Anfield,Liverpool

[wendythomas]

I'm trying to find any informatio about my graet grandmother's brother,he was called Rowland Williams born about 1876 to Robert and Jane Williams of Ty Capel Galltraeth,Bryncroes,Caernarvonshire,the family moved to Ty Capel Tyddyn ,Bryncroes.He lived at 1 Redcar Street,Anfield,Liverpool when he died in December 1923 when he was 47 years old and he is buried at Anfield cemetry,we have his obituary card here.His wife was called Ellen we have no idea where he married her,if it was in Wales or in Liverpool.I would love to find out if he had any children.

[ElizabethHerts]

If you use FreeBMD you will find a couple of marriages which might be them, one being in the West Derby Registration District:

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

[wendythomas]

I can never have any luck with Free BMD a box always pops up at the top and I can't continue,do you have to register with them?

[ElizabethHerts]

Wendy, it's free and easy to use which is why I posted the link.
You don't need to register.

I'm sure you'd get a great thrill getting a result yourself. You probably need to block something on your computer.

[Shona]

The West Derby one is on Ancestry's marriage index.

[kiterunner]

This must be the family on the 1881 census, at Galltraeth, Bryncroes, Caernarvonshire, and Rowland is age 8 on that census so he was born about 1872-3.
1881 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8059/CAERG11_5554_5559-1061/698550?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1881wales%26so%3d2%26pcat% 3dROOT_CATEGORY%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d 1%26MSAV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-g%26gsfn%3dro*land%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dwilliams %26gsln_x%3dXO%26msbdy%3d1876%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msfn g0%3drob*%26msfng0_x%3d1%26msmng0%3djane%26msmng0_ x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3dvm5%2 6msbdp%3d5%26cp%3d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
His birthplace is Bryncroes, Caernarvonshire.

This looks like him in 1891, as a farm servant in Bryncroes, still single:
1891 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/6897/CAERG12_4652_4654-0210/95312?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2 fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1891wales%26so%3d2%26pcat% 3dROOT_CATEGORY%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d 1%26MSAV%3d2%26gss%3dangs-g%26gsfn%3dro*land%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dwilliams %26gsln_x%3dXO%26msbdy%3d1873%26msbdy_x%3d1%26gskw %3dca*rn*%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26catBucket%3drs tp%26uidh%3dvm5%26msbdp%3d2%26cp%3d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

Do you have his occupation from his death certificate (or elsewhere), please?

[kiterunner]

On the 1911 census at 1 Redcar St is a William Henry Williams age 33 but probably just a coincidence as his birthplace is Liverpool.

[kiterunner]

Did you ever order the 1914 marriage certificate mentioned in this thread (reply #11)?

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=699913.9

Lancashire BMD has it as Rowland Williams / Ellen Jones at West Derby Register Office or Registrar Attended, so it will not be in any parish registers and you would have to order it from the register office. The marriage certificate would give the father's name so you would be able to see whether it was the right Rowland or not.

[wendythomas]

Hi ,he was a joiner like his brothers.I do not have the marriage certificate.

[Shona]

The 1911 Gore's Directory of Liverpool has a Rowland Williams, barman, living at 179 Gloucester Road, Bootle. There is another entry in the same directory for an R Williams, joiner, 35 Milner Road.

[kiterunner]

I should think it would be worth you ordering that marriage certificate, Wendy, to see whether it is him.

This could be him on the 1901 census but the age is a few years out:

1901 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7814/LANRG13_3471_3472-0617/20777363?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3duki1901%26rank %3d1%26new%3d1%26so%3d3%26MSAV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26gss %3dms_db%26gsfn%3droland%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dwi lliams%26gsln_x%3dXO%26msbdy%3d1869%26msbdy_x%3d1% 26dbOnly%3d_F00079A7%257c_F00079A7_x%26dbOnly%3d_F 0005DFC%257c_F0005DFC_x%26dbOnly%3d_83004006%257c_ 83004006_x%26dbOnly%3d_F0005DFB%257c_F0005DFB_x%26 dbOnly%3d_F0007AD6%257c_F0007AD6_x%26dbOnly%3d_F00 06867%257c_F0006867_x%26dbOnly%3d_F0005C4F%257c_F0 005C4F_x%26dbOnly%3d_F0005E11%257c_F0005E11_x%26db Only%3d_F0005906%257c_F0005906_x%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

10 Pansy St, Kirkdale, Liverpool
Henry Williams Head M 52 Dock Labourer Carnarvonshire
Catherine Do Wife M 48 Do
Charles Parry Boarder S 32 Seaman Do
William Roberts Do S 19 Carter Do
William Griffiths S 21 Seaman Do
Roland Williams S 32 Joiner Do

But we need to go back and check that this Roland isn't the son of Henry and Catherine.

[wendythomas]

It could very well be the one living at 35 Milner Road,would it be possible to find a census for that address?

[Merry]

That address does appear on the 1911 official site:

35 MILNER ROAD AIGBURTH LIVERPOOL

but fmp won't let me find it!

[Merry]

Found it now:

35 Milner Road Aigburth Liverpool

W R Jones Head Married Male 42 1869 Liverpool Joiner House
Kitty Jones Wife Married Female 41 1870 Liverpool -
G J Walsh Sister Single Female 43 1868 Lancs Liverpool -
W D Jones Son Single Male 16 1895 Lancs Liverpool Engineer Marine
Edna Mary Jones Daughter - Female 8 1903 Lancs Liverpool -
J P Jones Son - Male 5 1906 Lancs Liverpool -
D C Jones Daughter - Female 1 1910 Lancs Liverpool

another joiner!

[wendythomas]

He doesn't seem to be there.

[kiterunner]

R Williams could well be a Richard or a Robert anyway.

[garstonite]

That address does appear on the 1911 official site:

35 MILNER ROAD AIGBURTH LIVERPOOL

but fmp won't let me find it!

about a mile from where I live !!...if you would like a photo of the house if it is your family ,let me know :)

[Merry]

There's this on fmp:

Britain, Trade Union membership registers

First name(s) Rowland
Last name Williams
Birth year 1876
Admission year 1898
Age 21
Trade: Carpenters & joiners
Union name Amalgamated Society of Carpenters & Joiners
Union branch: Manchester 6
Union branch as transcribed: Manchester 6
County Lancashire
Country England
Archive: Modern Records Centre
Archive reference MSS.78/ASCJ/2/1/4
Title: Admissions Book
Dates 1898
Information contained: By branch: new union members joining branch; members transferring away from branch (with original branch joined and branch transferring to listed)
No of volumes 1
Record set:Britain, Trade Union membership registers
Category: Education & work
Subcategory: Guild & Trade Associations
Collections from: Great Britain

Transcription © Findmypast

Not much info on the image of the actual page. Says he joined 8 Jan 1898 aged 21 years 5 months (had worked in his trade for 6 years) and was excluded in 1900 for being in arrears with his sub.

[Merry]

Oh, and he was single as at Jan 1898!

[wendythomas]

Would it be possible to find when his wife Ellen died and if there was a will,then perhaps their children's name if they had any would be down on it.

[kiterunner]

I already looked to see whether Rowland left a will and I didn't find anything. You can search for free on this site:
https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate
Make sure to select the "Wills and Probate 1858-1996" tab before searching.

There are too many Ellen Williams deaths in the Liverpool area to know which one is her without more information about her. If you got that 1914 marriage cert to check whether it was the right one, and if it is, then we would know roughly when she was born which should help narrow down the possible deaths.

On one of your threads on another site, it is stated that she was listed at 1 Redcar Street in the 1938 Kelly's Directory, so she must have died in or after that year. You could look through all the Ellen Williams entries on the probate site to see if any looks likely. You would have to work through year by year starting at 1938 (or maybe 1937 just to be on the safe side.) But if she had moved to another address before she died, there would probably be nothing in the probate entry to show it was the right person.

You could try visiting Liverpool Archives and looking through the electoral register for 1 Redcar Street to see when Ellen stops being listed there, and also whether any other Williamses are listed at the address with Rowland and Ellen. If so then they could be their children. But the year when Ellen stops being listed at 1 Redcar Street could just be when she moved out rather than when she died.

Also you could visit Rowland's grave at Anfield Cemetery and see if Ellen is buried with him or next to him? Or you could contact Liverpool City Council and ask whether they can help?
http://liverpool.gov.uk/births-marriage-deaths/deaths/burials-and-cremations/cemeteries-and-crematoria/

[wendythomas]

Thanks very much for your help.