Can you help me sort out these two families?

[anne fraser]

In my tree I have James Hill a wool stapler from Uppingham in Rutland (1748-1815). He married Mary Brown and had several children including my ancestor Everard Hill born 1782, Cornelius born 1781 who inherited the family business and Ann who married Edward Kemp a draper.

There is also another James Hill, a wine merchant living in Uppingham at the same time. He died in 1811. He married an Elizabeth and also had several children.

I know they were different people as the 1803 rate book has them listed on the same page. But not unsurprising trees on ancestry have the two families combined Can we do better?

[kiterunner]

Do you have the will / admon of your James, Anne?

[kiterunner]

I'm guessing I would have more success if FamilySearch wasn't messing up my searches (on a different computer from the other day.)

I've only found these so far:
James Hill baptised 13 Sep 1771 Uppingham, Rutland, father James.
Thomas Hill baptised 31 Dec 1774 Uppingham, Rutland, parents James and Mary.

I seem to remember there are no online Rutland PR images and not many transcriptions / indexes apart from FamilySearch, but maybe something new has appeared since the last time I looked.

[kiterunner]

Hmm, ancestry has the PCC will of James Hill gentleman of Uppingham proved 1812 but his wife is Hannah Margaret Hill.
1812 will (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/5111/40611_311049-00388/444804?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3dCanturburyPrer ogativeCourt%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26so%3d3%26MSAV% 3d2%26gss%3dms_r_db%26gsfn%3dja*s%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26 gsln%3dhill%26gsln_x%3dXO%26gskw%3dupp*%26gskw_x%3 d1%26rg_81004261__date%3d1813%26uidh%3dvm5%26rs_81 004261__date%3d2&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=40611_31104 9-00388)
I haven't read through it yet.

[kiterunner]

FMP has James Hill of Uppingham listed in the Index to Death Duty Registers for 1815 and it says PCC too but I can't find him in the PCC wills on ancestry or on TNA, only a probate inventory or declaration from Sep 1816 which isn't digitised. I thought FMP used to show whether an entry on the index to Death Duty Registers was a probate or an admon but it doesn't seem to now. But I guess it must be an admon? The executor or administrator is a Thomas Hill.

[kiterunner]

Not many people mentioned in the 1812 will:
James Hill of Uppingham, Rutland, gentleman (the testator):
wife Hannah Margaret
daughter Mary the wife of William Wylde of _____ Street in the City of London Wine Merchant
Thomas Mills of Stamford, Lincolnshire
Samuel Edwards of Spalding, Lincolnshire
Signed 12 Aug 1811
Proved 14 Feb 1812

[kiterunner]

FamilySearch has James Hill marrying Hannah Margaret Key in 1782 at St George, Stamford, Lincolnshire.
It is on Lincs to the Past:
James Hill of the parish of Uppingham in the County of Rutland, Grocer, and Hannah Margarett Key of this parish, Spinster, married by Licence 3 Oct 1782
Witnesses W Chamberlin
Mary Cooke.

[kiterunner]

FMP has a transcription of the marriage licence allegation for that 1782 marriage, showing James age 30, single.

[kiterunner]

Cambridge Chronicle and Journal 16 Jun 1815
On Sunday last, whilst on a visit at Peterborough, aged 67, Mr James Hill, felmonger of Uppingham.

The Gentleman's Magazine 1815
Northamptonshire - At his son's, Peterborough, aged 67, James Hill, gent, an eminent woolstapler of Uppingham.

[Uncle John]

As an aside, I remember the fellmonger from the James Herriot books - he's the man who carts off dead animals.

[kiterunner]

From ancestry's copy of FamilySearch's databases:

James Hill married Mary Brown 14 Oct 1770 at Uppingham.

Hannah Margaretta Hill buried 9 Jun 1814 Uppingham.
James Hill buried 13 Jun 1815 Uppingham.
Mary Hill buried 22 May 1817 Uppingham.
Mary Hill buried 8 Apr 1821 Uppingham.

[anne fraser]

Thanks folks. No I have not looked for a will for James Hill. Everad Hill married Eleanor Easter kemp. .genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=9531&highlight=Eleanor+Easter+Kemp.

I came across an article by Uppingham local history society about Uppinghamin in 1803 about the other James Hill who started the local bank. One of the James was overseer to the poor but they can't decide which one.

I think a fellmonger must be a horrible job Uncle John. The local history society has an advert for Edward Kemp's drapers shop which has an N.B. funerals catered for. They think he must have been the local undertaker but I wonder if he had a nice line in black dresses.

Kite thanks for the newspaper extracts.

[anne fraser]

The ancestry tree has Cornelius Hill as James's father but I don't know where they got that from. James's birth date is from the burial record. I think Hannah Margaret must be wife to the wine merchant. I don't know where Elizabeth comes from.

[kiterunner]

I couldn't find any Rutland PR's online apart from what is indexed on FamilySearch and a few bits on FreeREG. You might have to go to Leicestershire Record Office.

[Mary from Italy]

I read somewhere recently that FMP have won the contract to digitise Leicestershire PRs; no idea if they're doing Rutland as well. They already have the Northants and Rutland probate index online if that's any help:

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-Records/northamptonshire-and-rutland-probate-index

[kiterunner]

It says on FamilySearch's wiki page about Rutland Church Registers that the parish registers have not been microfilmed, so I should think that means they are unlikely to be digitised in the near future.
But it says that most of the Rutland bishop's transcripts are held at Northamptonshire Record Office and that the post-1813 ones are included in the Northamptonshire Baptisms and Burials that recently went online on ancestry:
Northamptonshire Baptisms 1813-1912 (http://search.ancestry.com/search/db.aspx?dbid=9200)
Northamptonshire Burials 1813-1912 (http://search.ancestry.com/search/db.aspx?dbid=9201)

And your James Hill's burial is included in there. Neither of the Mary Hills who I mentioned in post #11 is your Mary as they are too young on the burials.

So, hopefully the pre-1813 Rutland BT's will be included with the pre-1813 Northamptonshire PR's when they put those online - as I assume they are going to do soon! I wonder if they will change the database titles to say "and Rutland".

Also the FamilySearch wiki page shows that you can order a CD-ROM of PR transcripts including Uppingham from Leics & Rutland FHS, though it doesn't say what dates are covered:
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Rutland_Church_Records

http://www.lrfhs.org.uk/onlinecdsales.htm

[anne fraser]

Thanks again