View Full Version : Second opinion,please
The following report from 1860 comes courtesy of FMP's free weekend &
concerns a dinner held in honour of 3xg Uncle Thomas who had donated
silver prizes to a London rowing club. The account of his response to toast &
speech by a Mr J. Tyler says " ---- He (Thomas) was proud to second some
remarks which had fallen from Mr J. Tyler, that rowing was truly an English
sport, as he never found anybody to come up to his countrymen in it. He had
been to France and had seen the English win with the greatest ease,and
therefore he felt great pleasure in giving the prize which would encourage
rowing on his native Thames."
On first reading, I took it to be Uncle T who had gone to France, but then
started to think it may have been Mr Tyler - you know what its like once
doubt starts to creep in?
If it is indeed Uncle T, its a fairly important discovery, as I think I can
identify his companion. In the other person's biography there are refs. to
French journeys, but its been unclear who went with him as there were two in
his circle with similar names which may have been transcribed incorrectly.
All opinions gratefully received.
kiterunner
08-03-15, 09:38
It looks to me as though Uncle Thomas was the one who went to France.
Who do you think Mr J Tyler was, vita?
Who do you think Mr J Tyler was, vita?
Thanks Kite & Merry - as I say that's what I originally thought, but began to
doubt myself. Very interesting.
According to the article, Mr Tyler was one of two Tylers - other one initial W -
who won the prize the previous year,1859.
Now all I have to do is find out when England won with ease in France
sometime before 1860! Wish Brilliant Neighbour's son hadn't moved away -
he had a try out for the national team a few years ago.
According to the article, Mr Tyler was one of two Tylers - other one initial W -
who won the prize the previous year,1859.
I thought you were saying you had his biography?
In the other person's biography...
Sorry - have I confused things with biog. ref?
The subject of biog. is Uncle T's employer, & I don't have it, but have previously received
info that companion on French trip could possibly be Uncle T. I believe its just one line in
the book with the name spelled differently.
Mr Tyler was just proposing the toast as he was the previous year's winner.
I thought the "other person" must be Mr Tyler, as you had only mentioned two people! My mistake.....*slinks away* (I was only wondering if Mr J Tyler was one of my Tylers)
kiterunner
08-03-15, 10:35
Maybe they are referring to the same race that is referred to in this article? I'll see if I can find a report of the actual event.
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000053%2f18590828%2f038
The Era 28 Aug 1859
Aquatics in France
On the 5th inst, six sons of the Thames effected a landing at Dieppe, to compete for the different prizes offered at the regatta, which took place on the 7th.
Our countrymen soon became aware that their rivals were numerous, and determined to offer the strongest possible resistance to any English that might present themselves. In fact, the Frenchmen felt apprehensive that the same "intruders" might again appear who performed so gloriously a short time ago at the Paris Spring Regatta held at St Cloud, at which the English beat the best men of France at the very moment they were made acquainted with the victory of Magenta.
I have to say I doubt that your neighbour's son would know anything about it unless he is an expert on the history of rowing?
kiterunner
08-03-15, 10:37
Wikipedia says the Battle of Magenta was fought on 4 Jun 1859, so it should be soon after that.
kiterunner
08-03-15, 10:42
Here is a report on the English win:
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000264%2f18590613%2f013
will type it out in a minute...
kiterunner
08-03-15, 10:58
Western Daily Press 13 June 1859
THE PARIS REGATTA
This annual regatta for rowing matches, given by the Paris Regatta Society, came off on the Seine, at St Cloud, on the 5th inst. Owing to the great development that has taken place here in rowing the last few years, this regatta is considered quite an event. The best crews from Rouen, Havre, Nantes and other places, generally come to dispute the honours of the day against the Parisians; but this year quite an unexpected circumstance occurred, which has produced a sensation that will not easily be forgotten by the French people. An English crew, composed of Thos White, of Bermondsey, George Driver, of Wandsworth, Robert Bain, of Lambeth, and George Drewitt, of Chelsea, availed themselves of the offer made by Mr John Arthur, an English gentleman living in Paris, and well-known as a great promoter of aquatic sports. The prizes offered were for sculls, pairs, fours, and six-oared boats, open to all. Nothing was known until the previous day that an English crew were going to row; however, the French crews, who know what English oarsmen can do, soon felt uneasy; but many, on seeing our men row before the race, began to regain a little confidence, it is presumed, from their not exactly understanding the real English stroke, for although they said they appeared to row well, still it was according to their idea not quite the thing; in fact, they said the men looked strong, even John Bullish, but that they wanted elan, or fire and energy such as they had, but what we in England should call action or gesticulation. Some few over-ardent admirers of theirs went so far as to back their energetic or fiery friends, feeling convinced that they would crush their English opponents as they would their Arab or Austrian rivals, but the following account of the day's sport will give an idea how things went. The sculling race came off first; an easy affair, the French having withdrawn, Driver and Bain winning the first prizes. Then followed the pair-oared race, eight boats started. The two English pairs came in first, pulled by Thomas White, George Drewitt, Robert Bain, and George Driver; a very good race, the Frenchmen gradually falling off astern after half the course was over. Immediately after the pair the above four were off for the four-oared race and they had to pull against fresh crews. This race was the hardest of the day. A very plucky French crew hung on to the English four, and it was not till the race was two thirds over that the British pluck showed in superiority, their opponents falling into the background. After these successive defeats there was some delay in bring on the six-oared race, owing to the French crews trying to pick the six best men out of their whole numbers in order to defeat the English, who, they began to hope, by this time were getting used up; but at last three boats got in line - the English four, to complete the number of six, were joined by Messrs Frederick Lowe and John Arthur. Just as the boats were going to start the news arrived of a great victory over the Austrians - 7,000 prisoners, 15,000 killed and wounded - which was received with immense enthusiasm and shouting, many people calling out to the rowers "Now, then, beat the English;" "Vive la France!" &c. Off went the gun, away went the English, gradually increasing their distance ahead of the others, when, alas! the floating blade of an oar placed itself right across the bow of the boat, ploughing up the water awfully, and strange to say, although bow attempted to remove it with his oar, it stuck on. This mishap soon caused the boats behind to creep up, but a tremendous spurt was put on by the English crew, who managed still to keep their boat ahead with the oar blade still clinging on, till at the turn it was knocked away, and an easy run home settled the day's sport. The people seemed quite surprised how the English had managed to keep up under such great exertion without any apparent fatigue. The English crews rowed each race in new boats, built for Mr John Arthur by E Wyld, of Lambeth.
I thought the "other person" must be Mr Tyler, as you had only mentioned two people! My mistake.....*slinks away* (I was only wondering if Mr J Tyler was one of my Tylers)
Merry - no need to slink at all. Realised how it might read as soon as you
questioned it. So,were any of your Tylers members of the now defunct
West London Rowing Club in the 1850s ??????????
Kite - you're amazing! I had a quick Google but didn't come up with that.
Just about to peruse. Neighbour's son ref made with tongue firmly in cheek!
So,were any of your Tylers members of the now defunct
West London Rowing Club in the 1850s ??????????
Not as far as I know, but the branch who moved to London, made a packet and changed their surname to Tylor (but are often reported as Tyler) lived in that area and were of the class to take part in that sort of social/sporting event, so I did wonder if you were going to be a shortcut to discovering something!! :D
kiterunner
08-03-15, 11:52
Not as far as I know, but the branch who moved to London, made a packet and changed their surname to Tylor (but are often reported as Tyler) lived in that area and were of the class to take part in that sort of social/sporting event, so I did wonder if you were going to be a shortcut to discovering something!! :D
The top rowers in those days were professional rowers so maybe not of the class you are thinking of?
Not as far as I know, but the branch who moved to London, made a packet and changed their surname to Tylor (but are often reported as Tyler) lived in that area and were of the class to take part in that sort of social/sporting event, so I did wonder if you were going to be a shortcut to discovering something!! :D
Wouldn't that have been brilliant? Uncle T would most definitely have wanted
to be around people who'd made a packet - he was very keen on self -
improvement.
The pub in Long Acre where the dinner was held is still there - if the Tylers
should turn out to be yours we could visit together & raise a glass to the
venerable ancestors !!!!!
Too much of a long shot, I think, vita and I also have to consider what Kate said. It was just whilst I as thinking you had a Tyler obit I was thinking he might be one of the J Tylor's from this line as they all had lengthy obits. Now seems less likely as it's a fairly common name and my lot were all strictly TT so might not have managed a social event in a pub!! lol
Too much of a long shot, I think, vita and I also have to consider what Kate said. It was just whilst I as thinking you had a Tyler obit I was thinking he might be one of the J Tylor's from this line as they all had lengthy obits. Now seems less likely as it's a fairly common name and my lot were all strictly TT so might not have managed a social event in a pub!! lol
Nice thought though, Merry. Yours could always have enjoyed a glass of
water with his dinner, whereas I have a report of the occasion Uncle T
accepted a jug of whiskey punch "to drown the remembrance of his failures."
Bless !!!!!
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