Harry Charles - 2nd Dragoon Guards

[Sirenoftitan]

I'm trying to track down my OH's step-grandfather activities between 1903 to 1918.

Harry Charles was born in Fulham in 1872 (2nd Q Kensington Vol 1a Page 213) and can be found with his parents, George & Ann, in the 1891 census living at 5 Ewald Road Fulham (Piece 54 Folio 105 Page 26).

He joined the 2nd Dragoon Guards (Queen's Bays) on 30 November/3 December 1891 (two dates are given) at Canterbury – service number 3790. He served with the Queen's Bays until his discharge on 29 November 1903 in the following places, according to his service record-

30 Nov 1891 – 23 Jan 1893 - “Home”
24 Jan 1893 – 20 Oct 1894 – India
21 Oct 1894 – 3 Nov 1896 – Egypt
4 Nov 1896 – 14 Nov 1901 - “Home”
15 Nov 1901 – 9 Sep 1902 – South Africa (Boer War)
10 Sep 1902 – 29 Apr 1903 - “Home”
30 Apr 1903 – 29 Nov 1903 - “a. Res.” (?)

His service record also reveals that he married Margaret Broadley, spinster, on 4th February 1899 at Woodhouse Leeds. The marriage was officiated by H. Ernest Crofts, Curate and was witnessed by Fred Broadley and Clara Broadley. This marriage is found in 1st Q 1899 Leeds Vol 9b Page 614 between John Henry Charles (not Harry) & Margaret Broadley.

The next mention I can find of Harry is when he married my OH's grandmother, Ellen Mary Nugent (nee Hilliard) on 14th May 1918. London electoral registers show Harry and Ellen living at 196 Crystal Palace Road, Camberwell in the early twenties.

I've been unable to find Harry in the 1901 census nor the 1911 census neither can I find any mention of further military service in WW1. I thought that he might be in barracks with the Queen's Bays in March 1901 but have been unable to find out where they were based (still in Yorkshire?). I've also drawn a blank with Margaret in both census and can't find a date of death for her (his marriage to Ellen says he's a widower).

A next of kin address for one of my OH's uncles in WW1 gives Ellen's address as Ecclesbourne Stables, Thornton Heath - we suspect she was living with Harry in 1914.

A fresh pair of eyes would be very much appreciated. Thank you.:)

[Sue from Southend]

Harry John Charles and Ellen Charles are living in Crystal Palace Road in 1918. Still there in 1922. http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=LMAelectoralreg&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=harry+john&gsln=charles&dbOnly=_F0005A49%7c_F0005A49_x&uidh=zs8&pcat=35&fh=3&h=138879787&recoff=4+5+6&ml_rpos=4

Can't see anything else yet and my battery's about to die. :(

[kiterunner]

To help us search for Margaret, I looked at the 1899 Leeds marriage cert on ancestry and she was age 20, a spinster, residence 9 Bloomfield Mount, father John William Broadley (deceased), a timekeeper.

[kiterunner]

This is the Broadley family in 1891:
1891 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/6598/WRYRG12_3707_3709-0176/5397833?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3duki1891%26rank %3d1%26new%3d1%26so%3d3%26MSAV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26gss %3dms_db%26gsfn%3dmarg*%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dbro ad*%26gsln_x%3dXO%26msbdy%3d1880%26msbdy_x%3d1%26g skw%3dyork*%26gskw_x%3d1%26dbOnly%3d_F00079A7%257c _F00079A7_x%26dbOnly%3d_F0007B58%257c_F0007B58_x%2 6dbOnly%3d_F0007EC5%257c_F0007EC5_x%26dbOnly%3d_83 004006%257c_83004006_x%26dbOnly%3d_F0005C4F%257c_F 0005C4F_x%26dbOnly%3d_F0005E11%257c_F0005E11_x%26d bOnly%3d_F0005906%257c_F0005906_x%26dbOnly%3d_F000 7EC6%257c_F0007EC6_x%26uidh%3dvm5%26msbdp%3d2&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

27 Portland Crescent, Leeds
John W Broadley Head M 40 Timekeeper Yorkshire Leeds
Margaret Do Wife M 36 Ireland
Fred Do Son S 16 Machine Fitter Madras
Clara Do Daur S 14 Tailoress Do
Margaret J Do Do S 13 Scholar Do
William J do Son 10 Do Burmah
Harry Do Do 8 Do Madras
Lilley Do Daur 4 Oxfordshire, Oxford
Herbert Do Son 3 Kent Shorncliffe
Amy E Do Daur 1 Yorkshire, Leeds

[kiterunner]

Margaret's mother, Margaret sr, is at 9 Bloomfield Mount in 1901 with several children but not Margaret jr:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7814/YRKRG13_4232_4234-0348/26998579?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3duki1901%26rank %3d1%26new%3d1%26so%3d3%26MSAV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26gss %3dms_db%26gsfn%3damy%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dbroad l*%26gsln_x%3dXO%26dbOnly%3d_F00079A7%257c_F00079A 7_x%26dbOnly%3d_F0005DFC%257c_F0005DFC_x%26dbOnly% 3d_83004006%257c_83004006_x%26dbOnly%3d_F0005DFB%2 57c_F0005DFB_x%26dbOnly%3d_F0007AD6%257c_F0007AD6_ x%26dbOnly%3d_F0006867%257c_F0006867_x%26dbOnly%3d _F0005C4F%257c_F0005C4F_x%26dbOnly%3d_F0005E11%257 c_F0005E11_x%26dbOnly%3d_F0005906%257c_F0005906_x% 26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[kiterunner]

And Margaret sr didn't fill in the "no of children" section on the 1911 census as she was a widow (it was worth checking because some widows did fill it in anyway, and if she had, it might have given us a clue as to when Margaret jr died):
1911 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_27017_0239_03/38885841?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3d1911england%26so%3d2%26pcat%3 d1911UKI%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSA V%3d2%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26gsfn%3dalb*%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dbroadl*%26g sln_x%3dXO%26msbdy%3d1894%26msbdy_x%3d1%26uidh%3dv m5%26msbdp%3d5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

[kiterunner]

So this is Margaret jr in 1901 but Harry isn't with her on census night:
1901 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7814/LNDRG13_69_71-0175/543072?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3duki1901%26rank %3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dmarg*%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dcha*%26gsl n_x%3dXO%26msbdy%3d1880%26msbdy_x%3d1%26dbOnly%3d_ F00079A7%257c_F00079A7_x%252c_F0005DFC%257c_F0005D FC_x%252c_83004006%257c_83004006_x%252c_F0005DFB%2 57c_F0005DFB_x%252c_F0007AD6%257c_F0007AD6_x%252c_ F0006867%257c_F0006867_x%252c_F0005C4F%257c_F0005C 4F_x%252c_F0005E11%257c_F0005E11_x%252c_F0005906%2 57c_F0005906_x%26uidh%3dvm5%26msbdp%3d2%26gl%3d%26 gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d170%26fsk%3dBEDmZmYIgAAehg BNAXc-61-&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
58 Broughton Rd, Fulham, London
Margaret J Charles Wife M 23 India, Madras
(occupying 4 rooms)

[kiterunner]

And in 1911 she is an inmate in a Salvation Army home in Sheffield:
1911 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_27986_0531_05/31128964?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3d1911england%26MS_ AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26msT%3d 1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dmarg*%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dcha*%26gsl n_x%3dXO%26msbdy%3d1880%26msbdy_x%3d1%26gskw%3dind *%26gskw_x%3d1%26uidh%3dvm5%26msbdp%3d5%26pcat%3d1 911UKI%26fh%3d4%26h%3d31128964%26recoff%3d%26ml_rp os%3d5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord)

Margaret Jane Charles Inmate 33 Married, no children, was Domestic Servant (Cook), Inmate of SA Home, not employed, born India Madras, British, Sound (i.e. she doesn't come into any of the "infirmity" categories.)

[Sirenoftitan]

Wow!

Thank you Sue for more on the London electoral registers. Hope your battery has recovered ;)

Thank you so much, kiterunner, I'd had a bash at trying to find Margaret but hadn't managed to do so.

Just going to have a look at what you've discovered (I'm with Find My Past which is probably creaking under the strain at the moment).

[kiterunner]

I haven't managed to find Margaret's death.

[kiterunner]

Just going to have a look at what you've discovered (I'm with Find My Past which is probably creaking under the strain at the moment).

Oops, sorry, all my links are to ancestry! Let me know if you need any help finding any of them on FMP.

[kiterunner]

London electoral registers (on ancestry) have John Henry Charles listed at 58 Broughton Road, Fulham, in 1902 (the address where Margaret was on the 1901 census.) But he is gone by 1903.

[kiterunner]

This looks like Harry in 1911:
1911 census on FMP (http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbc%2f1911%2frg14%2f31073%2f0065&parentid=gbc%2f1911%2frg14%2f31073%2f0065%2f5)
Henry Charles, age 36, married, no children, Groom, born Fulham Middlesex, a boarder in Lesbury, Northumberland.

[Sirenoftitan]

Oops, sorry, all my links are to ancestry! Let me know if you need any help finding any of them on FMP.

No problem - found them all. Find My Past has the details of the Broadley children's baptisms in India which was interesting

Thank you for tracking down Harry in 1911. Wonder where he's hiding in 1901?

Poor Margaret :(

I've found a death for a Margaret J Charles in 1923 in Leeds but that gives her age as 60 (b 1863) so too old.