Smiths

[Asa]

The Gloucestershire PRs on Ancestry have thrown me into confusion.

My ancestor George Smith, born c1827 in Chipping Campden, Glos, married in 1858 in Worcestershire. His father was William and one of the witnesses Jesse Surman. The obvious baptism is 30 Jul 1827 at Campden, son of William (labourer) and Elizabeth and there are four siblings - Ann Allen Smith bapt 1815 Bidford on Avon, Warks, Sarah bapt 1816 Bidford on Avon, William bapt 1819 Campden and Maria bapt 1825 Campden.

Ann married William Surman in Campden in 1838 and one of the witnesses was Sarah Smith. Father recorded simply as 'Dead'. These are the parents of Jesse Surman, who was a witness at his uncle's marriage. http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/5156/41511_636897_1089-00018/3395208?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dGloucMarriages%26h%3d3395208% 26ti%3d5538%26indiv%3dtry%26gss%3dpt%26ssrc%3dpt_t 11799218_p-395617181_kpidz0q3d-395617181z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&ssrc=pt_t11799218_p-395617181_kpidz0q3d-395617181z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&backlabel=ReturnRecord

Sarah - same signature as the witness to the Smith-Surman marriage - married 1847 Campden Joseph Richardson. Witness Maria Smith, father 'Dead'.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/5156/41511_636897_1089-00082/461509?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3dGloucMarriages %26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26so%3d3%26MSAV%3d2%26gss%3d ms_r_db%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3drichard*%26gsln_x%3 dXO%26msgdy%3d1847%26msgdy_x%3d1%26gskw%3dcampden% 26gskw_x%3d1%26dbOnly%3d_C000000F%257c_C000000F_x% 26uidh%3duaq&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

Both sisters can be traced through the census until death. The younger William seems to have been buried in 1838 aged 18 and Maria in 1852 aged 26.

I've always thought these are the parents in 1851 - William 66 born Hook Norton, Elizabeth 67 born Campden and Maria 24 born Campden http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/WARHO107_2075_2076-0319/9526962?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1851%26h%3d9526962%26ti%3d 5538%26indiv%3dtry%26gss%3dpt%26ssrc%3dpt_t1179921 8_p-395617177_kpidz0q3d-395617177z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&ssrc=pt_t11799218_p-395617177_kpidz0q3d-395617177z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&backlabel=ReturnRecord

and the parents were William Smith & Elizabeth Allen married 1814 Campden which would explain their eldest daughter being named Ann Allen Smith. There are corresponding baptisms in 1787 Hook Norton and 1785 Campden for them. One of the witnesses is Joseph Allen and the Elizabeth bapt 1785 Campden had a brother Joseph. Although the entry has "with consent of parents", I've noticed that they all seem to so am not put off by them both being of age. http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/5156/41511_636897_1088-00009/545508?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3dGloucMarriages %26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26so%3d3%26MSAV%3d2%26msT%3d 1%26gss%3dms_db%26gsfn%3dwilliam%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26g sln%3dsmith%26gsln_x%3dXO%26dbOnly%3d_C000000F%257 c_C000000F_x%26uidh%3duaq%26mssng0%3delizabeth%26m ssng0_x%3d1%26mssns0%3dallen%26mssns0_x%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

The Elizabeth Smith of the 1851 census lives until 1878 aged 93 (again tying in with the 1785 baptism) and the informant is her daughter Sarah Richardson.

The problem is that William Smith is said to be dead on both daughters' marriage certificates. I'm extremely confused. Am I missing something?

[Merry]

Is it possible Elizabeth Smith nee Allen lost her husband and married another William Smith before the births of her younger children?:

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/5156/41511_636897_1088-00027/3479449?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dgloucmarriages%26so%3d2%26pca t%3dROOT_CATEGORY%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new% 3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-g%26gsfn%3delizabeth%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln_x%3dXO%2 6gskw%3dcampden%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26catBucke t%3drt%26uidh%3d672%26cp%3d11%26mssng0%3dwilliam%2 6mssng0_x%3d1%26mssns0%3dsmith%26mssns0_x%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[Merry]

The above marriage being nine months before Maria's baptism!

[Asa]

Ah Merry, why didn't I think of that. It's about the only explanation and would explain the six year gap between William and Maria.

[Asa]

I need to look for a burial in Warwickshire or Gloucestershire for William Smith. How hard can that be :)

[Asa]

The signatures on the two marriages are a good match

[Merry]

There's no obvious burial for a first William though, except for one vastly older than Elizabeth, in 1819.

[Asa]

I think he's here, where the daughters were baptised - http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2444/4291033_00205/5038538?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dwarwickcoeburials%26so%3d2%26 pcat%3d34%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MS AV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26gsfn%3dwilliam%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dsmith%26 gsln_x%3dNN%26msddy%3d1823%26msddy_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d 1%26uidh%3duaq%26msddp%3d5%26cp%3d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[Merry]

There's this one in Bidford:


First name(s) WILLIAM
Last name SMITH
Birth year 1784
Death year 1819
Age 35
Burial year 1819
Burial day 31
Burial month 3
Place BIDFORD ON AVON
Church description ST LAWRENCE

[Asa]

So, the son William was probably posthumous and Elizabeth returned to Campden after her husband's death

[Merry]

Snap!

[Merry]

So, the son William was probably posthumous and Elizabeth returned to Campden after her husband's death

Seems reasonable.

I'll leave you to figure if the two William's were related!!

At least your ancestor is the son of the second husband!!

[Asa]

Thank you very much, Merry. I was lying awake thinking about this at 3 o'clock :)

[Merry]

lol! I have a lot of lines that have done that to me :)