View Full Version : William Henry Eccles b 1877
I have been re-visiting my Eccles family in Manchester to pick up the Manchester baptisms, and in some cases 1911 census entries I did not find before.
A small puzzle arises - I found the baptism of Elizabeth Ann Eccles on 31 Jan 1883, daughter of William and Jane Ellen Eccles of 36 George St, at St Phillip Church. Immediately below is an entry for William Henry Eccles with the same details except written across the bottom is "born Januarÿ 24 1877".
The problem is William and Jane Ellen Foster were not married until 1 Jan 1882 at the same church. Jane Ellen was born in the Sept Q of 1858 to George and Jane. In 1881, William is a single lodger in the household of Joseph Roylance in Branson St but I cannot find Jane or William Henry.
Neither Val, my fellow Eccles researcher, or myself can find any other reference to William Henry Eccles, birth, death or census. In 1887, William and Jane have a son William Foster Eccles.
In the 1911 census, they mistakenly listed all 8 of their children, including the three who had died and the two who were not living at home (one was William Foster Eccles). Not including William Henry Eccles. Did they leave him out because he was not the child of both of them ?
William Foster Eccles and his brother Leopold Noah Eccles both migrated to Canada.
So who was William Henry Eccles ? And where did he go ?
Was it a mistake in the baptism register ? Could the local RO help ?
Any ideas ?
Looking at the birth and death indexes on Ancestry, there is a death of a Wiliam Henry Eccles registered in Manchester in Q3 1878, age at death 0.
There is a birth of a William Henry Eccles registered in Manchester in Q4 1877, which may correspond to the death above.
it seems unlikely he would have been called Eccles when he was born unless Jane and her husband had known one another for years and if that was the case and they married in 1882 why didn't they marry earlier?
Having not instantly found George and Jane Foster in 1881 I decided young William Henry (probably Foster) would be with them, but he isn't! lol
There are a few possibles for Jane jr in 1881 but none of them have a young male child with them.
As a matter of interest, do you know who the parents of Maggie M Foster aged 3 in 1881 are?
Looking at the birth and death indexes on Ancestry, there is a death of a Wiliam Henry Eccles registered in Manchester in Q3 1878, age at death 0.
There is a birth of a William Henry Eccles registered in Manchester in Q4 1877, which may correspond to the death above.
Well the birth might be him, but not the death, as he was baptised in 1883 with Elizabeth Ann !
it seems unlikely he would have been called Eccles when he was born unless Jane and her husband had known one another for years and if that was the case and they married in 1882 why didn't they marry earlier?
Having not instantly found George and Jane Foster in 1881 I decided young William Henry (probably Foster) would be with them, but he isn't! lol
There are a few possibles for Jane jr in 1881 but none of them have a young male child with them.
As a matter of interest, do you know who the parents of Maggie M Foster aged 3 in 1881 are?
I agree Merry, if he is a son , I guess he would be Jané's son and there for should have been registered William Henry Foster, but I am not sure I found one I was happy with. The only one in Lancs BMD has mothers maiden name as Johnson.
I also thought he might be with janes parents, but cannot find them in the census either.
No I don't know who Maggies parents are, maybe Thomas and Margaret. Have not investigated the Fosters very much. Maybe I should !
kiterunner
13-02-15, 09:40
Here is a William Henry Eccles on the 1911 census, age 34, born Manchester, married 11 years to Emma, 3 living children (Florence 8, Harry 7, Alfred 3, all born Salford) and one who has died. William's occupation is Sea Going Engineer.
1911 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_23947_0449_03/36171182?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26ms T%3d1%26gss%3dangs-g%26gsfn%3dwilliam%2bhenry%26gsln%3deccles%26msbdy %3d1877%26cpxt%3d1%26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3dvm5 %26cp%3d11%26pcat%3dROOT_CATEGORY%26h%3d36171182%2 6db%3d1911England%26indiv%3d1%26ml_rpos%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord)
kiterunner
13-02-15, 09:49
The marriage for that couple looks to be Apr-Jun 1901 Salford: William Henry Eccles and Emma Beech. Lancs BMD shows them marrying at St Luke, Salford.
That marriage has William Henry's father named as Charles, a file forger.
kiterunner
13-02-15, 09:51
But on the marriage certificate William Henry Eccles is age 25 and his father is Charles Eccles, a file forger. Witnesses are George William Chapman and Amy Beech:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2962/40365_293640-00397/3640395?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2f%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26ms T%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26gsfn%3dwilliam%2bhenry%26gsln%3deccles%26msbdy %3d1877%26cpxt%3d1%26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3dvm5 %26cp%3d11%26pcat%3dBMD_MARRIAGE%26h%3d3640395%26r ecoff%3d9%2b10%2b11%2b33%26db%3dManchesterMarriage sCRO%26indiv%3d1%26ml_rpos%3d3&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
(Edit - snap, Shona!)
kiterunner
13-02-15, 09:53
Lancs OPC has the baptism of a William Henry Eccles 18 Jul 1875 at St Matthew, Manchester, son of Charles Eccles and Martha Emma. Father's occupation is file cutter. So we can rule out that 1911 census entry.
Yet another transcription of Eccles in the 1901 census - "Beeles" - not one I would have thought of - almost as bad as E Cales.
I also thought he might be with janes parents, but cannot find them in the census either.
No I don't know who Maggie's parents are, maybe Thomas and Margaret. Have not investigated the Fosters very much. Maybe I should !
In 1881 the family are listed as Forster. That's the census that has Maggie on it, so you probably haven't come across her yet.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=uki1881&MS_AdvCB=1&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=2&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=maggie+m&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=forster&gsln_x=XO&cpxt=1&catBucket=rt&uidh=672&cp=11&pcat=35&fh=0&h=10703694&recoff=&ml_rpos=1
I don't know who Maggie's parents are, maybe Thomas and Margaret.
Yes, that sounds right:
Marriages Dec 1875
FOSTER Thomas Manchester 8d 543
WARBURTON Margaret Manchester 8d 543
FOSTER Maggie Ancoats Archives+, Manchester Central Library WARBURTON ANC/172/64
In 1881 the family are listed as Forster. That's the census that has Maggie on it, so you probably haven't come across her yet.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=uki1881&MS_AdvCB=1&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=2&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=maggie+m&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=forster&gsln_x=XO&cpxt=1&catBucket=rt&uidh=672&cp=11&pcat=35&fh=0&h=10703694&recoff=&ml_rpos=1
I was looking, but had not found them yet. I got side-tracked - mother Jane's maiden name at marriage as Fullyhardy and at baptism Fogliardi -her father Dominic was born in Switzerland according to the1851 census - wow.
No William Henry with them, though
kiterunner
13-02-15, 13:00
Dates of birth for children baptised when not babies are often inaccurate.
If William Henry belonged to George and Jane, I thought he should die before the other Wm was baptised (Wm Foster Eccles was born 1889 not 1887) but I couldn't see any good matches.
There's a death in Oldham district of a four year old William Henry Eccles in 1884, who doesn't seem to have been registered for birth with the same name, but I didn't get any further because my gut instinct was that he was nothing to do with this family!
kiterunner
13-02-15, 14:48
If William Henry belonged to George and Jane, I thought he should die before the other Wm was baptised (Wm Foster Eccles was born 1889 not 1887) but I couldn't see any good matches.
You mean William and Jane, don't you? George was Jane's father.
There's a death in Oldham district of a four year old William Henry Eccles in 1884, who doesn't seem to have been registered for birth with the same name, but I didn't get any further because my gut instinct was that he was nothing to do with this family!
I wouldn't have thought it either, they pretty much stuck to the Ancoats - Newtown-Prestwich areas of Manchester - many of my Eccles family are buried at Phillips Park Cemetery but no William Henry .
Jane Foster (nee Fullyhardy) is buried with Jane Ellen and William Eccles !
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