Stuart Devon research suggestions please

[Phoenix]

Arthur Hele marries Mary c 1640-5 (when he is 25 -30), probably in Diptford, Devon. The parish records only survive from 1653.

He is described as gent. in most records concerning him.

The two known surviving sons are Arthur and Solomon. Solomon recurs in subsequent generations, but not in any earlier ones.

Local Devon wills were destroyed in WW2.

I am trawling all the PCC wills for 1640 - 1660 for the locality (and have found Arthur as a witness in one instance)

Can anyone suggest other sources that might prove useful? No professional researcher has found this marriage and nobody in the family seems to have recorded the details.

[Rick]

The Familysearch wiki suggests that BTs are available from 1596, but I can't find anywhere online which claims to hold them.

[kiterunner]

There is a big section about the Heles of Devon in Burke's Extinct Baronetcies; I'm just looking through it at the moment and there is this bit at the beginning which mentions Diptford:

Burke's Extinct Baronetcies 1841 p 251
HELE, OF FLEET.
CREATED 28th May 1627 EXTINCT in April 1677
Lineage
... Heale, Heal, or Hele, a manor in the parish of Bradninch, in the Hundred of Hardridge, in the North of Devon, was, from the earliest time of which any record exists... in the possession of the family, which had its dwelling there, and gave it name.
The herald's visitations commence with
SIR ROGER DE LA HEALE, Lord of Heale, in the reign of Henry III, fifth in descent from whom, through several knights named Roger and Nicholas, was
WILLIAM DE LA HEALE, who left issue two sons,
I. NICHOLAS
II. Roger, who became heir male of the family on the death of Nicholas.

NICHOLAS DE LA HELE, son and heir, died in the first year of King Henry V, leaving issue by his wife, Alice, cousin and heir of William de Percehay, of Comb Flory, an only daughter, Alice Hele, who married William Fraunceys, esq, of Brixham, in Devon, who, in right of his wife, became Lord of Hele, and succeeded to Comb Flory, where his descendants continued seated, matching, as they descended, with various western knightly families, as Ashforde of Ashforde, Courtenay of Powderham, Barckley, Wyndham of Orchard, Chichester, and others.

ROGER HEALE, second son of William de Heale, and heir male on the death of his brother Nicholas, lived temp. King Henry IV, having served in the Scotch wars, and been there taken prisoner. His son and heir,
WILLIAM HEALE, settled at Hele, called for distinction South Hele, in the parish of Cornwood, in the South of Devon, and had issue by his wife, Joan, daughter of Simon Cole, esq of Slade, in that county, five sons and one daughter,
I. JOHN, of South Heale, who left issue...

II. Hugh, of Cornwood, ancestor of the Heles of that place, and of Diptford, in Devon, whose representative, JACOB BICKFORD HELE, esq, of Stert, in the latter parish, great-great-great-grandson through daughters of Upton of Lupton, Prowse of Moore, Fowell of Black Hall, and Bartlett of Exeter, all in Devon, of John Hele, esq, of Diptford, at the time of the herald's visitation, died in July, 1835, aged seventy-eight, unmarried, and was presumed to have been the last male heir of this ancient family. He was interred on the 12th July, with his ancestors in the church of Diptford; and it is a remarkable fact, that there was but just sufficient room left in the vault for his coffin.

Then on page 255 there is more about Diptford but it is about the Fowell family. Back in a minute when I've finished looking through it...

in the meantime this is the link to it on ancestry:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/34766/00000001?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fsearch%2fdb.aspx%3fdbid%3d34766%26path%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnBrowsing#?imageId=00000259

[kiterunner]

No, can't see a mention of Arthur in there. Presumably there is a Visitations of Devon with the Hele family in but if Arthur wasn't mentioned in Burke's he probably isn't in the visitations either? But would Mary be one of those ancestors of Jacob Bickford Hele who is mentioned in Burke's? No, wait, is John Hele a descendant of Arthur's and those other names come after John Hele?

[Phoenix]

I don't entirely discount Roger being William Hele's father, but William was probably born no later than the 1470s. I've got him mentioned in the early C16th century and his grandson Stephen in the 1550s.

I have Emlyn Hele's will, the IPM for Stephen, and I'm happy to agree with the printed biographies post 1653. The IPM mentions the same land as the land tax in the 1830s, so I'm confident about the pedigree. It's just the marriage I need.

Oh, and Risdon says the pedigree is certain, without saying how he knows.

There is a gravestone in Diptford church, but that has simply collated parish register entries, rather than being contemporary.

[kiterunner]

Right. So Mary isn't one of those women mentioned as being Jacob's ancestors; she comes earlier than them? Is that right?

[Phoenix]

Ped:

Hugh
Stephen
Richard
John (mentioned in 1620 vis)
Arthur (ditto) aged 5
Solomon b 1657 or 8 (in fmp)
Arthur
Solomon
JBH

[Phoenix]

No. Mary is the elephant in the room. Nobody mentions her and some of the pedigrees get very confused about the various Arthurs and Solomons.

[kiterunner]

Is this the same Arthur? Though I suppose as there is another Hele named, the Pollards are relatives of the Hele family rather than of Arthur's wife? (if they are related, that is)


Reference:C 10/16/73
Description:
Simon Hele and Arthur Hele v John Pollard and Margaret his wife: money matters, Devon
Date: 1652
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record

[kiterunner]

And I know this one is Cornwall, but just in case it's relevant:

Reference:C 5/469/12
Description:
Short title: Daggs v Hele.
Plaintiffs: Henry Daggs.
Defendants: Arthur Hele and another.
Subject: money matters, Cornwall.
Document type: Bill, answer
Date: 1669
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record

[kiterunner]

Have you already looked for a marriage bond and / or allegation?

[Phoenix]

Yes, and the early ones are really detailed. I have his son Arthur's marriage (both sons marry Margaret Prowse, daughter of John Prowse of Moor in South Brent - I assume aunt and niece)

[Phoenix]

There's an Arthur Hele in Bristol about the same time and one in Plymouth. I'm not clear in my own mind whether my man moves about a bit - entirely feasible given the period - or stays put. His will (or admon) is proved by the principal creditor.

[kiterunner]

Looking at Diptford wills a bit later than the date range you mentioned, there is a Grace Blackmore, spinster, whose will from 1690 mentions John, Solomon and Arthur Hele, if that's any help?

Edit - she mentions the estate of her late uncle Abraham Blackmore, but I can't find out anything about him!

[kiterunner]

The Devon wills index says that Grace Blackmore's will was contested and this is the file at TNA:

Reference:PROB 28/1088
Description:Hele con Blackmore
Date: 1690
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record

I never knew that some of the cases were indexed as "con" instead of "v". I may need to repeat all my old searches!

[Phoenix]

Wow, thanks, Kite!

How I wish my Latin were better. The sentence is there, which looks as if Thomas Blackmore contested it, but I can't make out who won!

[Phoenix]

But with luck Prob 28 will be in English!