French need Help - Brookbank Family

[stefbkbk]

Hello,

I need help to complete my tree

I am French with English origin. Excuse my poor English.
I'st very difficult for a french (not bilingal) to search is English origin.
And on the contrary of France researches in England are not often free.

My great grandfather Albert BROOKBANK made the World War I in France.
He knew his wife during the war and married in 1917 . they goes back to Manchester at the end of ww1 and returned to france definitly in 1924 .

Down, in the link what I know

http://gw.geneanet.org/brookbanks_w?lang=fr&pz=katy&nz=brookbank&ocz=0&m=A&p=albert&n=brookbank&sosab=10&color=&t=Z&birth=on&birth_place=on&marr_date=on&marr_place=on&death=on&death_place=on&gen=on&v=4


Thanks all for your help

[kiterunner]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Luckily Albert Brookbank is a very rare name and because you already have his date and place of birth as 22 May 1882 in Manchester, I'm sure this must be his baptism, from the FamilySearch website (which is free):

Albert Brookbank christened 30 July 1882 at St James Collyhurst, Manchester, Lancashire, England. Father's name Joseph Brookbank, mother's name Jane.

But now I realise you already have his parents' and grandparents' names on your website, so can you please let us know what exactly you want help with, so that we don't just repeat what you already know?

[stefbkbk]

Sorry,I have difficulty with my translation

I am blocked after the third generation of my great grand father Albert BROOKBANK
I need your help to complete my direct line as far as possible ?
I used FamilySearch website but now i am blocked !

I repeat (down) what i know and i ask you what you can help me to complete

Génération 3
4 Joseph BROOKBANK until 1817 Keswick,cumbria,England married 26/03/1838 Manchester (Grande Bretagne), , , ,
5 Harriet JACKSON 30/04/1815 Salford, England
6 Benjamin GREENHALGH until 1817 Stockport,Cheshire,England married 22/08/1836 Cheadle, Cheshire, England
7 Louisa BENNETT 20/09/1816 Stockport,England
Génération 4
8 William BROOKBANK died after 1838
9 ?
10James JACKSON until 1777 Salford, England died after 1838
11Ann x until 1773
12 ?
13 ?
14John BENNETT married 17/10/1815 Northenden, Cheshire, England
15Deborah MARTIN

Thank you in advance

[kiterunner]

So, looking at the Brookbank line to start with, you have Joseph Brookbank born about 1817 in Keswick, Cumberland, who married Harriet Jackson 26 Mar 1838 in Manchester, and his father was William Brookbank, a tailor, so I guess you want to find out more about William Brookbank and his wife?

Joseph's birthplace is Keswick on the 1851 census, but on the 1871 census his birthplace is shown as Whitehaven, Cumberland, and his age as 58. So he could have been born in either place or somewhere in between. I'll see if I can find anything about his parents.

[kiterunner]

This marriage also at Manchester Cathedral could be Joseph's sister:

December 6th 1841 Manchester Cathedral
William Travis, full age, bachelor, shoemaker, 66 Bradford Street, father John Travis, cutler
Ann Brookbank, full age, spinster, 24 Whalley Street, father William Brookbank, tailor
Witnesses Mary Ann Tattersall and Minnie Selby (not sure about this name as it is hard to read)

[stefbkbk]

[so I guess you want to find out more about William Brookbank and his wife?]

Yes sure, and line Greenhalgh too

I see you find probablely joseph'sister

[ElizabethHerts]

The image for the marriage of Benjamin Greenhalgh and Louisa Bennett is online at Findmypast.co.uk.

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbprs%2fchs%2f4008467%2f00229&parentid=gbprs%2fm%2f745017167%2f1

[ElizabethHerts]

Benjamin and Louisa are on the 1881 Census.

1, Newburgh Street, Manchester, Lancashire
Benjn Greenhalgh Head Married 64 Painter's labourer Stockport Cheshire
Lewisa Wife 64 Stockport Cheshire
Archive reference RG11
Piece number 4003
Folio 75
Page 57

[stefbkbk]

Thank you but i have no account.

[ElizabethHerts]

The Greenhalgh family in 1851:

Warrington
Benjamin Greenall * Head Mar 34 Labourer born Stockport
Louisa Wife 34 born Stockport
William Son 11 Filemaker born Stockport
Harriett Daur 10 Scholar born Warrington
Mary Pl? Daur 8 Warrington
Daniel Son 4 born Warrington
Jane Daur 2 born Warrington
Class: HO107; Piece: 2203; Folio: 485; Page: 26; GSU roll: 87213

* the surname has been spelt incorrectly but I'm pretty sure this is your family.

[ElizabethHerts]

Thank you but i have no account.

I have sent you a private message. It will show at the top corner on the right. Click to open.

[Shona]

Benjamin Greenhall
Born: 16 February 1818
Bap: 3 March 1818
Parents: James and Sarah Greenhall
Baptised at the Hillgate Wesleyan Methodist Chapel, Stockport

Also baptised in March 1818 in the same chapel were a sister and brother of Benjamin:

Letitia Greenhall
Born: 28 January 1816
Baptised: 3 March 1818

Daniel Greenhall
Born: 7 January 1814
Baptised 3 March 1818

The baptism record for all three children says that the family were from the 'township of Brinnington'.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=manchesternonconformist&so=2&pcat=34&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=benjamin&gsfn_x=NN&gsln=greenh*&gsln_x=NN&msydy=1818&msydy_x=1&cpxt=1&catBucket=rstp&uidh=fpy&msydp=5&cp=11

[ElizabethHerts]

Well done, Shona. I think we need to search with Greenha* to enusre we get hits.

[Shona]

The same three children - Benjamin, Letitia and Daniel Greenhall, were also baptised at the Tiviot Dale Wesleyan Chapel in Heaton Norris on 9 March 1818.

[stefbkbk]

Thank you for your precious help.
a question please
We are obliged to open an paying account to have more information in England or there is another solution ?

[kiterunner]

You should be able to get free trials of ancestry and findmypast. The free trials usually last for 14 days / 2 weeks.
They will ask for credit card details and you have to make sure to cancel before the end of the free trial or they will start taking money, so make sure to read the terms and conditions. If you need help translating please ask us!
You can click on the advertisements at the top of the page on our website to get to the free trial offers.

[ElizabethHerts]

1871 Census
Ben'n Greenhalgh Head Married 54 ? Glass ? born Cheshire Stockport
Louisa Greenhalgh Wife Married Cheshire Stockport
Jane Greenhalgh Daughter Unmarried 22 Piecer Cotton Mill Lancashire Manchester
Margaret Greenhalgh Daughter Unmarried 19 Lancashire Warington
Thomas Greenhalgh Son Unm 17 Glass blower born Lancashire Manchester
Benjamin Greenhalgh Son 11 Scholar born Lancashire Newton
George Saunders Lodger 20 Glass blower Lancashire Bolton
Class: RG10; Piece: 4058; Folio: 85; Page: 31; GSU roll: 846343

[kiterunner]

Also you should be able to access ancestry for free at your local FamilySearch Centre. Details of the centres in France are on here:
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Category:France_Family_History_Centers

You may be able to access findmypast there too.

[stefbkbk]

The same three children - Benjamin, Letitia and Daniel Greenhall, were also baptised at the Tiviot Dale Wesleyan Chapel in Heaton Norris on 9 March 1818.

Merci beaucoup Shona
pour les parents de benjamin et ses enfants
For the parents and children of benjamin
I progress finally on this forum

Thank you all

[Shona]

The same three children - Benjamin, Letitia and Daniel Greenhall, were also baptised at the Tiviot Dale Wesleyan Chapel in Heaton Norris on 9 March 1818.

There was also a sister, Elizabeth, born 20 December 1819, baptised 28 March 1820 at Hillgate Wesleyan Methodist Chapel in Stockport.

[Shona]

Merci beaucoup Shona
pour les parents de benjamin et ses enfants
For the parents and children of benjamin
I progress finally on this forum

Thank you all

Je vous en prie. Pour moi, c'etait un defi tres interessant. Merci beacoup pour nous donner l'opportunitie de partager l'histoire de votre famille.

[ElizabethHerts]

Daniel est mort en 1844.

First name(s) DANIEL
Last name GREENHALGH
Birth year 1815
Death year 1844
Age 29
Burial year 1844
Burial day 17
Burial month 3
Place STOCKPORT
Church description MUNICIPAL CEMETERY
Church denomination CEMETERY
County Cheshire
Country England
Record set National Burial Index for England & Wales
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Record collection Deaths & burials
Collections from Great Britain

[Olde Crone]

Shona

How curious this should occur today! It may not be very relevant but I have today been discussing the records of the Independent chapel at Hillgate, although for much earlier years than this. It seems that Hillgate is the repository for records of the methodist circuit and therefore the baptisms often took place elsewhere but were recorded at Hillgate.

OC

[Shona]

How fascinating, OC. Your nugget of information explains why the children's baptisms were recorded at Tiviot Dale Wesleyan Chapel in Heaton Norris and also at Hillgate.

[lozaras]

Hello Stéph,
I'm English but have been in France for 23 years, and doing family history for 9 years (99% English, because although my husband is French he has Spanish parents and I've had trouble trying to follow his lines)
Si tu as besoin d'aide, n'hésites pas, les gens sur ce forum sont au top! (Comme tu as pu le constater ci-dessus!)

[stefbkbk]

Bonjour Sarah,
Bonjour à tous

I confirm, they are really very nice on this forum.

Effectivement je confirme, il sont vraiment très sympathique sur ce forum.

En France faire de la généalogie c'est beaucoup plus facile, tous les registres d'état civil sont en consultation libre sur internet. J'ai plus de 10 000 ascendants sur mon arbre, mais le plus désolant, c'est que ma branche principale (BROOKBANK) est la moins développée.
Le problème en Grande Bretagne c'est que tout ou presque est payant et je me suis fait abuser par des pseudo-généalogistes qui m'ont fait payer des actes très chers qui étaient pourtant gratuits. C'est pour çà qu'aujourd'hui je demande votre aide pour m'orienter dans mes recherches.
Je précise que je ne cherche pas à ce que les amis généalogistes britanniques payent pour moi sur les crédits qu'ils ont sur Findmypast ou autres mais juste savoir ce qu'il est possible de trouver autrement.

Si vous avez besoin d'aide en France, n’hésitez pas à me solliciter
If you need help in France, don't hesitate to request me

My family tree (10736 direct line parents)
http://gw.geneanet.org/brookbanks_w

Sincerely

Stéphane

[kiterunner]

Stéphane, you are surely paying for the "free" French resources, but you are paying for it from your taxes rather than paying individually for the particular pieces of information that you need. Funnily enough, I have got nowhere with the French connections to my tree, perhaps because I don't know exactly where in France to start looking and there doesn't seem to be much information collated at a national level.

[stefbkbk]

Hello kiterunner,

I never payed anything, its really free, and you can print or download Acts.

Les archives sont consultables sur internet quand elles ont plus de 100 ans. Pour les moins de cent ans il faut consulter dans les mairies.

Archives are available for consultation on Web > 100 years old. < 100 years old you must consult in city halls.

French archives in line
http://www.archivesdefrance.culture.gouv.fr/ressources/en-ligne/etat-civil/

If you need help for French connections to your tree, say me what you know and i try to help you

Stéphane

[kiterunner]

Thanks, Stephane.

What I mean about you are still paying for it is that the money for it is taken from the taxes that you pay to the government or local government. The money to pay for the service has to come from somewhere!

[stefbkbk]

Seen like that yes.
But i am satisfied to pay for this kind of service (and tax exempt too).
I have nothing about English system ! its just more difficult for the poor private's genealogist

We go away from the subject of this post but i renew my help
LOL as teen-agers say

[kiterunner]

Turning to the Jacksons, I believe you already have this family from the 1841 census, at the same address that your Harriet gave on her marriage certificate:
Newton Buildings, London Road, Manchester
James Jackson 64 Dresser
Ann Jackson 68
James Jackson 24 Dresser
Elizabeth Jackson 17 Spinster
all born in Lancashire.

I found these baptisms in the non-conformist records:

Salford - Gravel Lane Chapel (Wesleyan)

Harriott Daughter of James and Ann Jackson Fustian Dresser No 5 Ship yard Green Gate Salford was born July 29th and Baptized Oct 3d 1813

James Son of James and Ann Jackson Fustian Dresser No 5 Ship Court Greengate Salford was born October 23d 1817 and Baptized February 3d 1818

Elizabeth, Daughter of James and Ann Jackson, Fustian Dresser, of Ship Court, Greengate, Salford was Born April 30 1824 and Baptised June 13th 1824.

And this burial:
Burial at Salford, Christchurch, King Street (Bible Christians) Augt 24 1814 Hariot Daughter of James & Ann Jackson aged 12 Months who died Augt 20 of ?????? (sorry, I can't read it) at No 5 Ship Yard Green Gate Salford.

There are also burials at the same place on the 29th March 1807 of James age 2 years and Thomas age 10 months, sons of James and Ann Jackson, but I can't read the address where they died as the bottom of the page is cut off. They could well belong to the same family, though.

You already have a baptism for your Harriet: 30 Apr 1815 at Manchester Cathedral, daughter of James & Ann Jackson of Salford, Velvet Dresser. So it looks as though they had a baby called Harriet who died and then they gave the next baby (your Harriet) the same name. This was quite a usual thing.

There are baptisms at Manchester Cathedral for James, son of James and Ann Jackson 23 Dec 1804 and Thomas Jackson, son of James and Ann, 20 July 1806 which fit with the James and Thomas who were buried at Salford. The father's occupation was not shown on the baptism records at that date.

If we could find James and Ann on the 1851 census it should give us more accurate places of birth than the 1841 census does, but I can't see them at the moment. It's quite likely that they died between 1841 and 1851. I think Ann's age may be wrong on the 1841 census as it says she was 68 but her youngest daughter Elizabeth was only 17.

I found James Jackson junior on the 1851 census at 2 Buckby Place, Ancoats, Manchester, age 33, velvet dresser, born Salford, with a wife Mary age 31 born County Wicklow, Ireland, but they don't have either of James's parents with them. I can't find James and Mary's marriage in the parish registers at the moment.

[stefbkbk]

What a good job
i wish i could help you in return

at tomorow perhaps

Stéphane

[kiterunner]

There is a James Jackson death registered in 1846 in the London Road sub-district of Manchester, age 69, which could be your James. And an Ann Jackson death in 1845, London Road, age 72. Another Ann Jackson in 1847 London Road age 70. But of course there are lots of people with those names.

[kiterunner]

And luckily for us, the Manchester Cathedral marriage records from the date we need do give the bridegroom's occupation, so this must be James and Ann's marriage:

Manchester Cathedral
James Jackson of this Parish & Town of Manchester Velvet-dresser and Ann Hickson of Manchester spinster were married in this church by Banns this Seventh Day of June 1797.

The only witness's name is Henry Aspinall but he was a witness at all the marriages on the page so probably a church warden and not related to the couple.

[stefbkbk]

Great,
it's a pity that there are no parents mentioned, but it is already a lot
Thanks
Stéphane

[kiterunner]

There must be some more children of James and Ann born between their marriage in 1797 and the baptism of James junior 23 Dec 1804. There are a lot of baptisms of children of James and Ann Jackson at Manchester Cathedral in this period but too many for them all to belong to the same family, and the records don't show place of residence or father's occupation.

Looking for a baptism for Ann Hickson, I found this one:
Manchester Cathedral 20 Jun 1779 Ann daughter of Alice Hickson
But there is a burial 20 May 1781 also at Manchester Cathedral, Ann daughter of Alice Higson.

There is an Ann Higson baptised at Manchester Cathedral 20 Feb 1774, daughter of Richard and Elizabeth. This could be your Ann Hickson, but we need to find something to prove it.