Well,you did arsk :)

[Heather P T]

Right, hopefully some of you wont remember how often I tried to find this - but the marriage of Edward Horstead and Elizabeth Selby is the bane of my life. Well, that and their birth places and of course their ancestry.

They are my GGPx4 - I can stand in front of their headstones at the church in Ketteringham, Norfolk, just down the way from where I live (which for the uninitiated was a total surprise as I was born in Docklands and moved here in 1987.

But the facts are Edward birth year is 1735 - he died in 1827 (good ages my Horsteads). Elizabeth Selby born 1741 died 1826.

Earliest record I have is a settlement certificate dated 1768 (possibly 1763 - smudged) where they move about a mile from Ketteringham to the next village, Carleton. First known child, Thomas born about 1765 - no place known. Other children born Ketteringham, Norfolk.

Now, there are clutches of Horstead/Hosted/Hostead/Horsted in the Aylsham area of Norfolk, about 20 north of Ketteringham. There are clutches in the Glapthorn area of Northamptonshire and some in Yorkshire (and some odd groups in sussex/kent) But I cannot find a substantial bunch of them before the say 18th century.

Where did they come from? Is there name totally changed? Not Horstead or Hosted but maybe Orstead or something? Dont know. But there is a John Horstade about 8 miles from Ketteringham marrying a Bridget Pilgrim in - going on memory - about 1730 and I toyed with them being Edwards parents.

SO, any new angles would be appreciated. Neither can I find any Selby families in the Norfolk area in the 18th century, apart from the mention of two on the Norfolk/Suffolk border. There are though, Selbys in the Northamptonshire area.

Can anyone suggest anything? Why no sign of the name before the 1730ish era. How did they suddenly turn up in Norfolk and how are the Norfolk bunch related/if at all with the Northampton lot? I cant imagine ever solving this one, but things do happen sometimes dont they :) Many thanks guys.

[Phoenix]

Hello Heather!!!

When the clerks didn't have parents names to enter in the burial records, I have found they will sometimes put birthplace. Tiny Norfolk village and they bury an old man, native of Coventry in the late 1700s.

If you have two surnames, both more common in Northamptonshire than Norfolk, I wouldn't say it was unreasonable to explore that county.

Do I take it that you know spouse maiden name from the burial of a child?

[ElizabethHerts]

I was also about to ask how you knew Elizabeth's maiden name, Heather.

I'm not familiar with Norfolk research but I think there are a few on here who are.

[Heather P T]

Hi, oh, I think it was mentioned on some of the kids' baptisms. Nope, Ive found it now (so long since I did these people) Its actually on her burial.

RegisterNumber 55
BurialDate 14 Jun 1826
Forename Elizabeth
Relationship Wife
Rel1MaleForename Edward
Rel1FemaleForename
Rel1Surname SELBY
Surname HORSTEAD
Age 85
Abode
Notes Late Selby Spinster

[Mary from Italy]

I have some Northants discs, and I've had a quick look for a marriage, but I can't see anything.

It's probably irrelevant (or you may already have seen it), but I've found a reference in the Bury and Norwich Post in 1824 to an Edward Horstead, alias James Howard, charged with stealing a watch in Heigham. Your Edward would have been a good age by then, though, so I assume the person concerned is one of his sons or another relative. Might be interesting to know where the alias came from, though.

[Heather P T]

Hi Mary, Id seen that, he was transported. But Ive no idea what line he is from. Possibly the lot from the aylsham area. Hadnt seen the alias though. There were some Horsteads in the Heigham area - a John who was the cousin that my James went down to London with in the 1830sm they would be grandsons of Edward. It was a lovely little village then, now its just part of the city of Norwich. Thanks for the alias and for trying northants :(

[Mary from Italy]

I have marriage, baptism and burial discs, and I can't see a likely baptism for either of them, or a marriage. My discs start in 1700, so I don't know if there were any Horsteads in Northants before that.

[Phoenix]

Settlement cert means they were quite convinced about his place of settlement. So he was either born in area or earning good money.

Is he appearing in churchwarden accounts or manorial docs? (I do know these records are time consuming to look at, but you don't have so far to travel to look at them as some of us do!)

[Heather P T]

He is said to be a husbandman on the settlement cert. But Ive seen the actual registers of Ketteringham, I mean the real original ones :) still in the church coffer and no sign of them before that date, no sign of Thomas's birth either. The mob over in Northampton also seem not to appear until mid 18th century. Its peculiar how both lots seem to appear from nowhere.

I think I tried all other records, which is how I found the settlement cert. Horstead descendants appear in the Victorian Miniature Book but that again is later and also in the Lord Boileau's diary, but only as the farm steward. Im not the best at looking at records to be honest though :) But Id have thought something or someone with that name would have jumped out prior to the mid 1700s :( There is a clutch in the 17th century in York. Im just wondering if they are immigrants, may be from scandanavia around that time.

[Mary from Italy]

It looks as though the surname originates from the placename Horstead. There are a few people called "de Horsted(e)" going back quite a way in Norfolk, and that presumably morphed into the surname Horstead.

http://nrocat.norfolk.gov.uk/DServe/DServe.exe?NS&dsqServer=NCC3CL01&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=Index.tcl

[Oakum Picker]

Could Elizabeth be the daughter of Thomas & Sarah SELVEY bapt. 21/12/1741 Newton Flotman?

[Heather P T]

Well,Mary, thats what I originally thought but then I wondered if it happened the other way round - that is, someone with a name similar to the village moves a few miles away and from then on everyone calls them by the name of the village - if you follow. Say a Orsted or Hosted/Osted, whatever, turns up in the village, goes to the church where forever after the family's deaths, births and marriages are assumed to be Horstead.

Because Id have thought if they were from Horstead then there would be a huge number of them there but there is no mention of them prior to mid 18 century (aylsham is not that far from Horstead village and thats where the second Norfolk clutch of them are. One lot near me and the other lot there) Just trawling last night and there is a Horstead in Sweden, the site of a famous battle apparently.

[Heather P T]

Hi Oakum :) Well, Id looked at that one some time back but I have no back up for it and no collaboration of any sort with a marriage. No birth of Edward either which is maddening.

[Heather P T]

Just found and ordered a Will dated 1600 of a John Horstead apparently living about half a mile from where I now live :) Thanks so much everyone for giving me a kick to start searching this lot again as they are important to me, being my mums direct line and mine.

[Heather P T]

oh oh Mary and Oakum - just playing about with names. I started a search for the Selvey family in Norfolk - also shown as Silvey as I thought easily misheard by parish priest as Selby.

But guess what, concerning the Horstead who was transported to Aus from Heigham that used the alias Howard!!! Is it just a coincidence?

I found the marriage entry for Ann Silvey and Thomas Howard:

(The Year 1758) Page 19
No. 30 Thomas Howard of this Parish Single Man
and Ann Silvey of this
Parish Single Woman were
Married in this Church by Banns
this Seventeenth Day of July in the Year One Thousand Seven
Hundred and fifty-eight by me J. Williams Curate
This Marriage was solemnized between Us
{Thomas Howard his mark
Ann Silvey A her mark
In the Presence of {James Well ... [or Woll ...]
John Newbegin

FHL BRITISH Film 993968 item 2, the parish register transcripts for St. Bartholomew, Heigham, Norfolk, England. T

[Mary from Italy]

Ooh, that's an interesting coincidence!

[Heather P T]

Same place aswell Mary - so possible the Howard family continued to be known to the Horsteads/Selby/selvys then?

[Heather P T]

Im not convinced of that Mary. It was my original belief to be honest but Im wondering now if the people appeared with a similar name to the village of Horstead and it sort of morphed in that way rather than the other way round? Because there are no Horsteads in Horstead :) There were some in Aylsham a bit further on that Horstead village but again, they appear from about the 18th century, like my lot. Im sure they will be connected in some way but .............