Thomas Rees of Penygraig (1911)

[Sirenoftitan]

Name

Thomas Rees

Date and place of birth

About 1883, Cardiff (source 1911 census)

Names of parents

Alfred Rees (source marriage certificate)

Date and place of baptism - if applicable

Unknown

Details of each of his or her marriages - if any

Married Elizabeth Jane Lewis on 31st December 1901 at the Registry Office in Pontypridd.

His age is given as 21 years (dob 1880) occupation is recorded as Collier. His father's name is Alfred Rees (deceased) - occupation - Coal Trimmer.

Address for bride and groom is recorded as 3 Morgan Street, Cymmer (Her mother's residence).

Her age is given as 19 years (dob 1882), no profession and father recorded as Morgan Lewis, collier.

(Notes: Her dob on both the 1901 and 1911 census is 1886/87. Her Father's name in full is Morgan Lewis Porter)

Witnesses were – Sarah Ann Owens and Robert Johnson.

Occupation(s) - if any

Collier

Military service - if any

Unknown

Addresses where they lived - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on.

3 Morgan Street, Cymmer (marriage certificate 1901)
27 Penygraig Road, Penygraig, Rhondda (1911 census)

1891 census – not found
1901 census – not found

Date, place and cause of death

Unknown

Date and place of burial / cremation.

Unknown

Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable

Unknown

Memorial inscription - if any

Unknown

Updated to rectify mistake in address - 3 Morgan STREET (not Terrace) shown on marriage certificate

[Merry]

Looking at death registrations for men named Albert Rees between 1882 and 1901 there's only one in Wales who is old enough (of course it might not be the right one!):


Deaths Mar 1899
Rees Alfred 47 Pontypridd 11a 280

Have you looked at this man at all?

1891 census:

Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan

Alfred Rees boarder married 38 Coal Miner b Tuelebert, Pembrokeshire

Though married, he's not with his wife or any children.

[Merry]

3 Morgan Terrace, Cymmer

Given that's Elizabeth's parents address, I expect you've seen the Rees family living next door? Just a red herring?

[kiterunner]

There is this family on the 1881 census if Thomas was a bit older than he let on (edit - just noticed in rereading that he is 21 on his marriage cert so this would fit anyway):

10 Ynyscynon St, Citenpennan(?), Aberdare, Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Alfred Rees Head Mar 31 Coal Miner Neath Abbey, Glamorgans
Mary Rees Wife Mar 28 St Isals Pembrokesh
Sarah J Rees Daur 9 Scholar Cwmbach Glamorgans
John Do Son 8 Scholar Cwmbach Do
Becca A Do Daur 4 Scholar Cwmbach Do
Margret M Do Daur 1 Cwmbach Do
Thomas W Do Son 1 Mo Cwmbach Do

[kiterunner]

3 Morgan Terrace, Cymmer

Given that's Elizabeth's parents address, I expect you've seen the Rees family living next door? Just a red herring?

Living next door in which census, Merry?

[kiterunner]

This is the family from post #4 in 1891, still at 10 Ynyscynon St, Cefnpinnar, Aberdare, Glamorgan:
Alfred Rees Head M 44 Coal Miner Neath Glamorganshire Welsh
Mary Do Wife M 38 St Isell Pembrokeshire Do
John Do Son S 18 Coal Miner Aberdare, Glamorganshire Do
Rebecca Do Daug 14 Do Do Do
Margt Mary Do Do 11 Scholar Do Do Do
Thomas Do Son 10 Do Do Do Do
David Charles Do Do 7 Do Do Do Do
Alfred Do Do 5 Do Do Do Do
Gomer Do Do 3 Do Do Do Do
Catherine Do Daug 6 Mo Do Do

But it says Welsh for language spoken for all of them, while your Thomas says he only speaks English on the 1911 census.

[Merry]

living next door in which census, merry?

1901.

[Merry]

This is the family from post #4 in 1891, still at 10 Ynyscynon St, Cefnpinnar, Aberdare, Glamorgan:
Alfred Rees Head M 44 Coal Miner Neath Glamorganshire Welsh
Mary Do Wife M 38 St Isell Pembrokeshire Do
John Do Son S 18 Coal Miner Aberdare, Glamorganshire Do
Rebecca Do Daug 14 Do Do Do
Margt Mary Do Do 11 Scholar Do Do Do
Thomas Do Son 10 Do Do Do Do
David Charles Do Do 7 Do Do Do Do
Alfred Do Do 5 Do Do Do Do
Gomer Do Do 3 Do Do Do Do
Catherine Do Daug 6 Mo Do Do

But it says Welsh for language spoken for all of them, while your Thomas says he only speaks English on the 1911 census.

It looks like that Alfred is still alive in 1911 (not that this 100% excludes him!)

[kiterunner]

Hmm, well, they speak both Welsh and English in 1901, but Thomas is still at home and Alfred still alive:

Alfred Rees Head M 52 Coal Miner Neath Glamorgan Both
Mary Do Wife M 48 Pembrokeshire ??? Do
John Do Son S 27 Coal Miner Glamorgan, Aberdare Do
Margaret Jones Daur M 22 Do Do Do
Thomas Rees Son S 20 Coal Miner Do Do Do
D Chas Rees Son S 18 Coal Miner Glamorgan, Aberdare Both
A F Do Son S 15 Coal Miner Do Do Do
Gomer Do Son S 14 Coal Miner Do Do Do
James Do Son 8 Do Do Do
Thomas Jones Son in law M 24 Coal Miner Pembrokeshire Haverfordwest Do

(still at the same address as before)

[Sirenoftitan]

There is this family on the 1881 census if Thomas was a bit older than he let on (edit - just noticed in rereading that he is 21 on his marriage cert so this would fit anyway):

10 Ynyscynon St, Citenpennan(?), Aberdare, Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan
Alfred Rees Head Mar 31 Coal Miner Neath Abbey, Glamorgans
Mary Rees Wife Mar 28 St Isals Pembrokesh
Sarah J Rees Daur 9 Scholar Cwmbach Glamorgans
John Do Son 8 Scholar Cwmbach Do
Becca A Do Daur 4 Scholar Cwmbach Do
Margret M Do Daur 1 Cwmbach Do
Thomas W Do Son 1 Mo Cwmbach Do

They are indeed on my possible list :) This Alfred crops up on every census between 1851 to 1891 and I've mapped that family tree, just in case.

However, I'm still struck by the fact that in the 1911 census which appears to have been filled in by him, Thomas gives his birthplace as Cardiff. Why would he put Cardiff and not Merthyr? It puzzles me.

[Sirenoftitan]

Yes - he says he only speaks English in the 1911 census yet my alternative Rees family speak Welsh.

Thank you so much for all your help - it's really appreciated. I'll be back later.

[kiterunner]

It looks like that Alfred is still alive in 1911 (not that this 100% excludes him!)

Ah, so he is. Occupation Colliery Shot(?) Man. Their son Thomas isn't at home so they're not definitely ruled out.

[kiterunner]

However, I'm still struck by the fact that in the 1911 census which appears to have been filled in by him, Thomas gives his birthplace as Cardiff. Why would he put Cardiff and not Merthyr? It puzzles me.

I have read that sometimes the form was filled in by someone else but signed (or supposedly signed) by the householder as though they had filled it in. But yes, it does seem strange if it is the same Thomas.

[Merry]

I couldn't get anywhere with this one:

Deaths Mar 1899
Rees Alfred 47 Pontypridd 11a 280

Have you looked at this man at all?

1891 census:

Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan

Alfred Rees boarder married 38 Coal Miner b Tuelebert, Pembrokeshire

Partly because my knowledge of Welsh geography is virtually non-existent!!

[kiterunner]

(Notes: Her dob on both the 1901 and 1911 census is 1886/87. Her Father's name in full is Morgan Lewis Porter)


So this is her in 1891? (followed a link from an ancestry tree)
8 Trebawnog Rd, Llantrisant, Glamorgan
Janet Hopkins Head W 43 Glamorganshire
...
Morgan L Porter Boarder M 33 Coal Haulier Breckonshire
Martha J Do Daur (sic) M 26(?) Glamorganshire
Eliza J Do Daur S 3 Do

And there is a birth reg Jul-Sep 1887 Pontypridd (also linked to from that ancestry tree.) Did she really look 19 when she got married?!

[Merry]

That's odd - I just looked again at 3 and 4 Morgan Terrace, Cymmer and whilst 4 has a Rees family, number 3 has Lemuel Llewelyn and family and a lodger, Job Salter and family, so I must have gone wrong.

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbc%2f1901%2f5009-5011%2f0438&parentid=gbc%2f1901%2f0030801800

[kiterunner]

That's odd - I just looked again at 3 and 4 Morgan Terrace, Cymmer and whilst 4 has a Rees family, number 3 has Lemuel Llewelyn and family and a lodger, Job Salter and family, so I must have gone wrong.

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbc%2f1901%2f5009-5011%2f0438&parentid=gbc%2f1901%2f0030801800



The Lewises are listed at 3 Morgan Street.

[kiterunner]

1891 census:

Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan

Alfred Rees boarder married 38 Coal Miner b Tuelebert, Pembrokeshire

Partly because my knowledge of Welsh geography is virtually non-existent!!

This is the rest of his family in 1891, but no Thomas:
Dyffryn Lodge, St Nicholas, Pembrokeshire
Phebe Rees Wife M 38 Pembrok Mathry
Sarah Anne Do Daur 15 Scholar Do Llanhedryn
Margaret Anna Do Daur 12 Do Do St Nicholas
Dinah Maria Do Daur 10 Do Do St Nicholas

In 1881 their head of household is Alfred Rees 28 born Pembrokeshire Letterston, although he is an ag lab then. Wikipedia says that the Welsh name for Letterston is Treletert.

[kiterunner]

In 1901 Phebe is a widow. And she has a son Thomas! But he is 9, so I don't think he could have passed for 21 a few months later to get married! (Also he is born at Pembrokeshire St Nicholas.)

But it does look likely that the 1899 Alfred Rees death is her husband.

[kiterunner]

So, could it be that Alfred and Phebe split up soon after the 1881 census and Alfred went off to Glamorgan and had a son Thomas by another woman, or got together with another woman who already had a son Thomas, and Thomas took his surname?
Except that he doesn't have a family with him in 1891. :(
I suppose you could get the 1899 death cert to see whether it helps at all.

[Sirenoftitan]

So this is her in 1891? (followed a link from an ancestry tree)
8 Trebawnog Rd, Llantrisant, Glamorgan
Janet Hopkins Head W 43 Glamorganshire
...
Morgan L Porter Boarder M 33 Coal Haulier Breckonshire
Martha J Do Daur (sic) M 26(?) Glamorganshire
Eliza J Do Daur S 3 Do

And there is a birth reg Jul-Sep 1887 Pontypridd (also linked to from that ancestry tree.) Did she really look 19 when she got married?!

That's Elizabeth Jane and her parents. Took me ages to track them down. These newspaper extracts might help explain why the Morgan Porter's full name got dropped from the marriage certificate.

Husband, wife and lodger: Shocking revelations at Porth (http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3284987/ART58/morgan%20lewis%20porter)

Family Troubles in the Rhondda (http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3431737/ART73/morgan%20lewis%20porter)

As to her age, who knows? I was quite shocked when I saw that she could only have been 13/14 but the 1911 census gives her age as 24 but fudges the length of the marriage to 9 years. Perhaps the Registrar had started his New Year's Eve celebrations early.

[Merry]

The Lewises are listed at 3 Morgan Street.

Ah, you said Terrace in the opening post. I suppose it's just a coincidence there was a Rees family next door?

[Sirenoftitan]

Sorry, the address on the marriage certificate is Morgan Street not Terrace. Apologies.

I can't see a Rees family living next door to Martha Jane Lewis and family in the 1901 census. There is the Clapp family at 2 Morgan Street and a Jane Jones plus numerous boarders at 4 Morgan Street.

I had noted the 1899 death of Arthur Rees (1stQ 11a page 280) but wanted a bit more evidence before I forked out for the death certificate. I've come across so many "fudges" with this particular branch of my family (c.f. Elizabeth's Jane age at marriage, amendment to her father's name) that it's difficult to be precise :( perhaps I should just bite the bullet and pay the money to see what's recorded on Alfred's certificate.

Thanks again for all your help.

[Merry]

I can't see a Rees family living next door to Martha Jane Lewis and family in the 1901 census.

You won't, because the Rees family I was looking at were at 4 Morgan Terrace as I thought your family were at 3 Morgan Terrace!

[Sirenoftitan]

Sorry!

[Sirenoftitan]

So, could it be that Alfred and Phebe split up soon after the 1881 census and Alfred went off to Glamorgan and had a son Thomas by another woman, or got together with another woman who already had a son Thomas, and Thomas took his surname?
Except that he doesn't have a family with him in 1891. :(
I suppose you could get the 1899 death cert to see whether it helps at all.

With this side of my family, nothing surprises me any more ;) I've bitten the bullet and ordered the death certificate - once received, I'll come back and report the information it contains.

[Merry]

*fingers crossed that it helps* :)

[Sirenoftitan]

The death certificate states that Alfred Rees died on February 11th 1899 at 28 Catherine Street, Abercynon, Llanwonno, Mountain Ash. He was 47 years of age and his occupation was a Collier. The cause of death was "syncope due to dilatation of the heart" and the information was derived from a certificate received from Rees Jenkins Rhys, Coroner for Glamorgan, from the inquest held on February 13th 1899.

I found this newspaper report which covers his sudden death Abercynon - para starting "A very sad occurrence...." (http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3634217/ART56/alfred%20rees). The newspaper report states that he came from Fishguard, Pembrokeshire and that is where his wife (Phebe) and family reside.

Unfortunately, I don't think that this Alfred Rees is "my" Alfred Rees as this Alfred's son Thomas is far too young.

As has already been pointed out, the other Alfred Rees (born 1850 Neath) married to Mary Cousins is still going strong in 1911.

Back to the drawing board. :confused:

[kiterunner]

Thanks for posting this. It does look unlikely that he is your Alfred Rees but there weren't that many of them around! I'll have another look and see if I can come up with anything.

[kiterunner]

I've been looking, but not found anything to help.

[Sirenoftitan]

Thank you for looking.

I'm beginning to think that both Thomas & Elizabeth were economical with the truth.