Richard Bowen, Innkeeper Plough and Harrow, Newchurch

[tenterfieldjulie]

When I returned home in August the forum gave me a lot of help finding out about Richard and his family. From the Census he was a innkeeper at the Plough and Harrow:D at Newchurch just outside Carmarthen

From a tree on Ancestry it said that he was buried 21 December 1858 at Newchurch aged 80 (source being Welsh roots) this tied in with a death that Kate found.

At the time:o I also wrote down that a Richard Bowen was born/baptised 25/11/1779 at Abergwili, Carmarthen, (I stayed there in 2009), which is just over the hill from Newchurch and a short distance from Carmarthen.

Now I cannot find where I found this record and I would like to find it again and hopefully find the names of his parents:o:o.

Help appreciated again. Thanks. Julie

[kiterunner]

It's on Findmypast, Julie.

[ElizabethHerts]

Parents Edward and Anne.

First name(s) RICHARD
Last name BOWEN
Birth year 1779
Birth day -
Birth month -
Baptism year 1779
Baptism day 25
Baptism month Nov
Baptism place ABERGWILI
Father's first name(s) Edward
Mother's first name(s) Anne
County Carmarthenshire
Country Wales
Record set Carmarthen Baptisms
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Record collection Births & baptisms
Collections from Great Britain

[ElizabethHerts]

A possible marriage for Edward and Ann:

First name(s) EDWARD
Last name BOWEN
Birth year -
Marriage year 1775
Marriage day 28
Marriage month Apr
Marriage place DAFEN
Spouse's first name(s) ANN
Spouse's last name THOMAS
Groom's parish Llanelly
Bride's parish Llanelly
County Carmarthenshire
Country Wales

[tenterfieldjulie]

Definnitely looks like I need to buy myself an early Christmas present with FMP. Thanks Kate and Liza .. I'm still not sure where I found it originally. I didn't think it was on Ancestry. Anyhow now I know for sure that I wasn't imaging it!! .. ooh goodness me isn't that wonderful .... Oh I must start buying lottery tickets now for sure. Thanks a million... Julie

[ElizabethHerts]

More children:

First name(s) CHARLES WILLIAM
Last name BOWEN
Birth year 1777
Birth day -
Birth month -
Baptism year 1777
Baptism day 8
Baptism month Sep
Baptism place ABERGWILI
Father's first name(s) Edward
Mother's first name(s) Anne
County Carmarthenshire

First name(s) MARY ANNE
Last name BOWEN
Birth year 1786
Birth day -
Birth month -
Baptism year 1786
Baptism day 18
Baptism month Apr
Baptism place ABERGWILI
Father's first name(s) Edward
Mother's first name(s) -
County Carmarthenshire

[ElizabethHerts]

Julie, there is this burial for an Edward Jones Bowen:

First name(s) EDWARD JONES
Last name BOWEN
Birth year -
Death year 1798
Burial year 1798
Burial day 3
Burial month Mar
Parish Abergwili
Place ABERGWILI
County Carmarthenshire

[ElizabethHerts]

OK, the Edward Jones Bowen is this man:

First name(s) EDWARD JONES
Last name BOWEN
Banns year 1781
Banns day -
Banns month -
Marriage year 1781
Marriage day 30
Marriage month May
Marriage place LLANLLAWDDOG
Spouse's first name(s) ANNE
Spouse's last name TAYLOR
Groom's parish Abergwilly
Bride's parish Llanllawddog
County Carmarthenshire

so this marriage is later than your Richard's baptism.

[ElizabethHerts]

Shame Edward Jones Bowen isn't yours:

Edward Jones Bowen, Farmer SD/1803/1 1803

Contents:
Inventory. Grant of administration.
Diocese: St David's
Parish: Abergwili
Township: Rhudewill
County: Carmarthenshire

http://apps.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=210-prob_sd_14&cid=-1#-1

[ElizabethHerts]

Some burials for an Ann Bowen:

First name(s) ANNE
Last name BOWEN
Birth year -
Death year 1783
Burial year 1783
Burial day 30
Burial month Oct
Parish Abergwili
Place ABERGWILI
County Carmarthenshire
Country Wales
Page 79
Record set Carmarthen Burials

This says "Rhiusdywyll" after the name.

First name(s) ANNE
Last name BOWEN
Birth year -
Death year 1785
Burial year 1785
Burial day 11
Burial month Nov
Parish Abergwili
Place ABERGWILI
County Carmarthenshire
Country Wales
Page 82
Record set Carmarthen Burials

The image shows no further details.

First name(s) ANNE
Last name BOWEN
Birth year -
Death year 1799
Burial year 1799
Burial day 29
Burial month Oct
Parish Abergwili
Place ABERGWILI
County Carmarthenshire

The image says "late of Rhius?dyeoyll"

[tenterfieldjulie]

I'd say that Charles William is Richard's brother, but not sure about Mary Ann as her baptism comes after a gap of 7 years and the marriage of Edward Jones Bowen to Anne Taylor. It is possible that Anne Thomas had died and it was a second marriage but putting the name Edward Jones Bowen in that marriage and death almost seems to indicate there were two Edward Bowen's at Abergwilly. Can you find a second death of Edward Bowen please Liza?

[ElizabethHerts]

OOOH!

Charles William Bowen, Clerk/Vicar SD/1829/62 1829

Contents:
Bond. Grant of administration. Miscellaneous.
Diocese: St David's
Parish: Cydweli (St Mary)
County: Carmarthenshire

http://apps.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=210-prob_sd_14&cid=-1#-1

[ElizabethHerts]

I'd say that Charles William is Richard's brother, but not sure about Mary Ann as her baptism comes after a gap of 7 years and the marriage of Edward Jones Bowen to Anne Taylor. It is possible that Anne Thomas had died and it was a second marriage but putting the name Edward Jones Bowen in that marriage and death almost seems to indicate there were two Edward Bowen's at Abergwilly. Can you find a second death of Edward Bowen please Liza?

I haven't found a second death for Edward Bowen yet, but I 've restricted it to Abergwili so far.

[ElizabethHerts]

Ancestry has this for Charles William Bowen in Oxford University Alumni:

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8942/RDUK1500_0001-0153/23123?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2 fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3doxfordalum%26rank%3d1%26new%3 d1%26so%3d3%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dms_db%26g sfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dBowen%26gsln_x%3dXO%26uidh%3dx t1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

It says he is son of Edward, Gent.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Oh I just noticed something .. my great great grandfather's name was Thomas Bowen Davies - I thought Thomas referred to a male ancestor, but maybe it was referring to his grandmother Ann Thomas!

[tenterfieldjulie]

Liza - saying that Edward was a Gent is sort of tying in with something I felt, that Mary Bowen somehow had something that made her youngest son acceptable to marry the daughter of the Mayor of Carmarthen, Daniel Prytherch. Not sure why Mary would have been allowed to marry John Davies, a poor hill farmer/miller to all accounts. Maybe he was handsome or something.

[ElizabethHerts]

This might be for someone completely different, but it needs recording:

Title: Edward Bowen
Reference: SD/1824/193
Description:

Will. Will made in 1803.

Diocese: St David's
Parish: Llanybydder
Township: Waunfron
County: Carmarthenshire
Date: 1824
Held by: National Library of Wales: Department o

[ElizabethHerts]

There are in fact quite a few entries for men called Edward Bowen on the National Archives website, Julie, so it might be best for you to browse them:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=%22Edward+Bowen%22

[tenterfieldjulie]

Thanks Liza I will do tomorrow. Nearly midnight here now and I am a bit weary. Many thanks. Julie

[ElizabethHerts]

Sleep tight, Julie....

[kiterunner]

Julie, don't forget that the pre-1858 Welsh wills and administrations are available free on the National Library of Wales website:
http://cat.llgc.org.uk/cgi-bin/gw/chameleon?sessionid=2014101313434204775&skin=profeb&lng=en&inst=consortium&host=lisbon.llgc.org.uk%2b9901%2bDEFAULT&patronhost=lisbon.llgc.org.uk%209901%20DEFAULT&search=NOSRCH&function=START&sourcescreen=EXTERNAL_CONTENT&pos=1&elementcount=1&u1=0

They have the will of a William Bowen of Abergwili which I had a quick look through and spotted the following names:
I, William Bowen of Rhywdowill in the parish of Abergwilly in the County of Carmarthen...Thomas Bowen my son...My daughter Hester Bowen... Ann my beloved wife...the said Edward Bowen, my son...my two Grandchildren... Charls and Richard my two Grandchildren...my Grandchild Thomas Bowen... Ann the Daughter of Edward Bowen my son...signed 13th Dec 1780
proved 30 May 1781

So William must be your Richard's grandfather.

[ElizabethHerts]

This will for an Edward Bowen in 1806 says his wife is Ann:

http://cat.llgc.org.uk/cgi-bin/gw/chameleon?sessionid=2014101314103106470&skin=profeb&lng=en&inst=consortium&host=lisbon.llgc.org.uk%2b9901%2bDEFAULT&patronhost=lisbon.llgc.org.uk%209901%20DEFAULT&searchid=1&sourcescreen=INITREQ&pos=1&itempos=1&rootsearch=SCAN&function=INITREQ&search=AUTHID&authid=7091701&authidu=4

[ElizabethHerts]

This is the administration for Charles William Bowen:

http://cat.llgc.org.uk/cgi-bin/gw/chameleon?sessionid=2014101314154006801&skin=profeb&lng=en&inst=consortium&host=lisbon.llgc.org.uk%2b9901%2bDEFAULT&patronhost=lisbon.llgc.org.uk%209901%20DEFAULT&search=KEYWORD&searchid=H2&sourcescreen=INITREQ&itempos=1&rootsearch=KEYWORD&pos=11&function=NEXTPAGE

[tenterfieldjulie]

Wowee .. and I have to go to work ... but so much to return for .. many many thanks again Kate and Liza .... it just goes to show that you have to persevere (or in my case my kind GF friends) for so many years the Bowens were a brick wall and now down it comes tumbling. Now we have 4 generations isn't that amazing .. my cousin Joyce is going to be gobsmacked lol Julie Yipeee

[tenterfieldjulie]

Hi Ladies, I've been having a lot of fun thank you. I could open your link and it was great to try and read the will. Your translation helped a lot Kate.
Did I translate correctly that William came from Rhywoowill, Abergwilly. I also note that he had property at Abernant. I probably buy a copy of the will because it is very hard to read the place names when you are just enlarging small sections.
Liza I couldn't open your last two links ..it said bad copy.
I did have a look on FamilySearch and found the marriage of Richard and Ann at Dafen. I also found a burial of an Edward Bowen on 28/8/1806 at Llanelli, St. Elli, Carmarthen aged 90 which would make him born 1716. If this is the will you found I think that would make him too old for my Edward. I couldn't see a baptism for Edward son of William in the right time frame, however they might have been NC. Although it now seems unlikely.

[tenterfieldjulie]

On Freereg I found the marriage of Richard Bowen (parish Newchurch) to Jane Davies on 4/11/1806 at Merthyr, Carmarthenshire... so really delighted with this.

Also on Freereg found the marriage of Edward Bowen to Ann Thomas on 28/4/1775 (FMP had Dafen, Carmarthen) free reg had Llanelly, church of St. Elli) file no. 7461.

Then to really confuse the issue William Bowen married Ann Thomas ** 1737 at Llanelly, St. Elli with also the File No. of 7461.

Not sure if the File No. refers to the parish of Llanelly and with a name like Ann Thomas it is possible that Father and Son could marry ladies of the same name, but then with only the year readable .. it does cast some doubt as to it's accuracy ..

[kiterunner]

Did I translate correctly that William came from Rhywoowill, Abergwilly.

I read it as Rhywdowill. If you Google for that it only comes up with 3 matches in addition to this thread, but two of them refer to Edward Jones Bowen so I guess it is right. There are probably many variations on the spelling.

[kiterunner]

On Freereg I found the marriage of Richard Bowen (parish Newchurch) to Jane Davies on 4/11/1806 at Merthyr, Carmarthenshire... so really delighted with this.

Also on Freereg found the marriage of Edward Bowen to Ann Thomas on 28/4/1775 (FMP had Dafen, Carmarthen) free reg had Llanelly, church of St. Elli) file no. 7461.

Then to really confuse the issue William Bowen married Ann Thomas ** 1737 at Llanelly, St. Elli with also the File No. of 7461.

Not sure if the File No. refers to the parish of Llanelly and with a name like Ann Thomas it is possible that Father and Son could marry ladies of the same name, but then with only the year readable .. it does cast some doubt as to it's accuracy ..

Ooh, I didn't realise that FreeREG had any Welsh stuff. If you look at their coverage info, they say they have not done Dafen yet. It could be that the marriage is listed in the banns registers for both parishes. When I'm transcribing for FreeREG, I do include "banns only" entries in case there is no transcription available for the parish where the marriage actually took place. (Though I do put a comment on to say if it is just the banns.)

The images should be available on Findmypast if you want to check the accuracy of the FreeREG transcriptions.

File Number is just the number assigned to the transcription file that was uploaded to FreeREG and the fact that both entries have the same number will just mean that the transcriber doing Llanelly marriages put the pre-1754 and post-1754 marriages in the same file.

[tenterfieldjulie]

BOWENS OF ABERGWILI, CARMARTHENSHIRE
This is a summary of what I believe are my Bowen family:
I believe the links are the farm, ”Rhywdowill” (and variants).
Can anyone find my missing conjectures which are in italics?
Can anyone see any obvious discrepancies in my conjecture please? Thanks Julie

1. Mary Bowen married John Davies at Newchurch 5/10/1826.
On Census she said she was born 1806/7 Newchurch/Llannewdyd.
Death at Llanstefan in Feb 1892 aged 86 years.
Baptism 1/3/1807 Newchurch – Parents Richard and Jane.

2. Richard Bowen married Jane Davies 4/11/1806 at Merthyr. Richard of Newchurch.
Baptised 25/11/1779 Abergwili – Parents Edward and Ann.
Death Dec 1858 Newchurch aged 80
(Census Innkeeper Plough & Harrow innkeeper and farmer)

3. Edward Bowen 1st married Ann Thomas 28/4/1775 Dafen (both of Llanelly)
a. Baptisms of their sons– Charles William 8/9/1777 ; Richard 25/11/1779 Abergwili
b. Possible Birth of Ann (named in grandfather’s will) 1780?
c. Possible Death of Ann Bowen (Thomas) (baby’s mother) 1780?
d. Will of William Bowen 13/12/1780 of Rhywdowill, Abergwilly, Carmarthen...
Ann, wife; Thomas, son; Hester, daughter;
Edward, son - his children... Charls and Richard; also Ann
Thomas, grandchild (will proved 30 May 1781)
e. 2nd Marriage 30/5/1781 of Edward Jones Bowen of Abergwilly to Anne Taylor at Llanllawdog (bride’s parish) wondering about his marital status?
f. Burial of Anne Bowen (Taylor) 30/10/1783 Abergwili – Rhiusdywyll.
I have not proved that she was Anne Taylor
g. 3rd Marriage of Edward to Mary ?
h. Baptism of Mary Ann 18/4/1786 Abergwili Father Edward, Mother ?
i. Marriage Bonds 8/8/1787 - Edward Jones Bowen of Rhywdowill, Carms, gent, is one of the bondsmen for James Reynolds and Anne Davies
j. Burial of Edward Jones Bowen 3/3/1798 Abergwilli
k. Grant of Admin 1803 to Mary widow of Edward Jones Bowen farmer of Rhodewill Abergwilli
l. Burial 29/10/1799 Anne Bowen Abergwili – late of Rhius?dyeoyll
(possibly is the wife of William)?

4. William Bowen married Ann (Jones) - William Died 1781 Their Children: Thomas, Hester and Edward

[kiterunner]

Findmypast has the baptism of a Hesther Bowen, daughter of Edward, 1783 at Abergwili. FamilySearch gives the date as 28 Oct 1783.

[kiterunner]

2nd Marriage 30/5/1781 of Edward Jones Bowen of Abergwilly to Anne Taylor at Llanllawdog (bride’s parish) wondering about his marital status?


Have you looked at the image for this marriage, Julie? And if so, doesn't it give his marital status?

[tenterfieldjulie]

I have just found Edward Jones Bowen bapt on fs at Abergwili 23/10/1750.

[kiterunner]

I was about to post that, Julie!

[tenterfieldjulie]

That marriage was one found by Liza earlier in the thread and it doesn't give marital status. Not sure where she found it.

[kiterunner]

It should be on Findmypast as they supposedly have all the Welsh parish registers.

[tenterfieldjulie]

I definitely need FMP as FS doesn't give parents names for baptism either.
However I had a look on an ancestry tree and found William Bowen 25 of Abergwilly married Ann Jones 21 of Llangunnor on 27/10/1749. This tree is really about the Jones and says that her father was John Jones and mother Elizabeth Horn and gives her siblings Adam,Lewis, John, Ann, Anthony, Eliz. and William. John Sen/.1700-1754.
On FS the date was written 15/11 for marriage. William being born 1724 from age at marriage - there is a baptism of Gulielmus Bowen 3/1/1724 at Pembry, Carmarthen but then there were probably lots of Gulielmus Bowens.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Ooh I am having fun .. thanks to you Kate and Liza ..

[kiterunner]

Not sure whether you have this already, Julie?

From a book called West Wales Historical Records on openlibrary.org:

Marriage Bonds and Fiats, 1785 (p 171)
Jun 4. Edward Jones Bowen of the parish of Abergwilly, Carms, gent, and Mary Bowen of the parish of Cynwilgaio, Carms, spinster. B by said Edward Jones Bowen and Thomas Williams of Carmarthen, gent; witness Charles Morgan.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Nooooo that is wonderful ..

[ElizabethHerts]

I'm trying to collect all the baptisms for father William c. 1750.

First name(s) THOMAS
Last name BOWEN
Birth year 1753 -
Baptism year 1753
Baptism day 13
Baptism month Mar
Baptism place ABERGWILI
Father's first name(s) Wm
Mother's first name(s) -
County Carmarthenshire
Country Wales
Record set Carmarthen Baptisms
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Record collection Births & baptisms
Collections from Great Britain


First name(s) ESTHER
Last name BOWEN
Birth year 1756 -
Baptism year 1756
Baptism day 7
Baptism month Oct
Baptism place ABERGWILI
Father's first name(s) William
Mother's first name(s) Anne
County Carmarthenshire
Country Wales
Record set Carmarthen Baptisms
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Record collection Births & baptisms
Collections from Great Britain

So will look for a William Bowen marrying Anne.

[ElizabethHerts]

Aha!!

First name(s) WILLIAM
Last name BOWEN
Birth year -
Marriage year 1749
Marriage day 15
Marriage month Nov
Marriage place LLANGUNNOR
Spouse's first name(s) ANNE
Spouse's last name JONES
Groom's parish Abergwilly
Bride's parish Llanvihangel Yeroth
County Carmarthenshire
Country Wales
Record set Carmarthen Marriages
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Record collection Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

[ElizabethHerts]

Hence Edward Jones Bowen!

[ElizabethHerts]

BOWENS OF ABERGWILI, CARMARTHENSHIRE
This is a summary of what I believe are my Bowen family:
I believe the links are the farm, ”Rhywdowill” (and variants).
Can anyone find my missing conjectures which are in italics?
Can anyone see any obvious discrepancies in my conjecture please? Thanks Julie

1. Mary Bowen married John Davies at Newchurch 5/10/1826.
On Census she said she was born 1806/7 Newchurch/Llannewdyd.
Death at Llanstefan in Feb 1892 aged 86 years.
Baptism 1/3/1807 Newchurch – Parents Richard and Jane.

2. Richard Bowen married Jane Davies 4/11/1806 at Merthyr. Richard of Newchurch.
Baptised 25/11/1779 Abergwili – Parents Edward and Ann.
Death Dec 1858 Newchurch aged 80
(Census Innkeeper Plough & Harrow innkeeper and farmer)

3. Edward Bowen 1st married Ann Thomas 28/4/1775 Dafen (both of Llanelly)
a. Baptisms of their sons– Charles William 8/9/1777 ; Richard 25/11/1779 Abergwili
b. Possible Birth of Ann (named in grandfather’s will) 1780?
c. Possible Death of Ann Bowen (Thomas) (baby’s mother) 1780?
d. Will of William Bowen 13/12/1780 of Rhywdowill, Abergwilly, Carmarthen...
Ann, wife; Thomas, son; Hester, daughter;
Edward, son - his children... Charls and Richard; also Ann
Thomas, grandchild (will proved 30 May 1781)
e. 2nd Marriage 30/5/1781 of Edward Jones Bowen of Abergwilly to Anne Taylor at Llanllawdog (bride’s parish) wondering about his marital status?
f. Burial of Anne Bowen (Taylor) 30/10/1783 Abergwili – Rhiusdywyll.
I have not proved that she was Anne Taylor
g. 3rd Marriage of Edward to Mary ?
h. Baptism of Mary Ann 18/4/1786 Abergwili Father Edward, Mother ?
i. Marriage Bonds 8/8/1787 - Edward Jones Bowen of Rhywdowill, Carms, gent, is one of the bondsmen for James Reynolds and Anne Davies
j. Burial of Edward Jones Bowen 3/3/1798 Abergwilli
k. Grant of Admin 1803 to Mary widow of Edward Jones Bowen farmer of Rhodewill Abergwilli
l. Burial 29/10/1799 Anne Bowen Abergwili – late of Rhius?dyeoyll
(possibly is the wife of William)?

4. William Bowen married Ann (Jones) - William Died 1781 Their Children: Thomas, Hester and Edward

Silly me - I have only just seen this! I managed to read just the last couple of posts.

At least I found the marriage of William Bowen and Anne Jones and found baptisms for Thomas and (H)Esther.

[ElizabethHerts]

All of these come up on Discovery (National Archives):

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=Bowen+Abergwili

[ElizabethHerts]

Some details about the church at Abergwili:

http://www.britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/wa-81928-church-of-st-david-abergwili

I was googling for memorial inscriptions and this was one of the hits. Nothing about the Bowens that I could see, though.

[ElizabethHerts]

There might be some information about MIs from this site:

http://www.geni.com/projects/Carmarthenshire-Monumental-Inscriptions-and-Graveyards/17621

However, you need to register:

"- you do need to first be a collaborator or collaborating with a collaborator- so please join the project using the request link under "actions" at the top right of the page. Visit Geni Wikitext, Unicode and images which gives a great deal of assistance."

[tenterfieldjulie]

Thanks Liza .. that bit about where Ann Jones is from is excellent as what I found on the Ancestry tree was different... All those posts that you put I came in very hand with his 3 marriages .. and the 3rd one Kate found to Mary Bowen ties them in neatly.

[ElizabethHerts]

Burial of William Bowen:

First name(s) WILLIAM
Last name BOWEN
Birth year -
Death year 1781
Burial year 1781
Burial day 2
Burial month Jan
Parish Abergwili
Place ABERGWILI
County Carmarthenshire
Country Wales
Page 77
Record set Carmarthen Burials
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Record collection Deaths & burials
Collections from Great Britain

Remember the burial for Anne Bowen in 1783 could be this chap's widow.

[ElizabethHerts]

Will of Evan Bowen, 1746.

Sister Katherine Bowen
Niece Anne Thomas
Nephew Thomas James
Nephew William James

Nephew William Bowen of Rhywdowill

http://cat.llgc.org.uk/cgi-bin/gw/chameleon?sessionid=2014101512425739993&skin=profeb&lng=en&inst=consortium&function=EXTERNAL_CONTENT&externalurltype=856u&externalurl=http%3a%2f%2fdams.llgc.org.uk%2fintegr ation%2fbehaviour%2fllgc-id%3a830385%2ffedora-bdef%3azoom%2fllgc-id%3a830384%2f193.61.220.233%2fen

[ElizabethHerts]

Evan Bowen : will, 1729.

Son Robert
Son Thomas
Son William - Executor
Son John
Son Luke

Brother Lewis Bowen

Grandchild Elizabeth daughter of David Davies
Grandchild Katherine
Grandson Robert

Some children in minority


I wouldn't have thought your William would be old enough then to be Evan's son.

[ElizabethHerts]

Note: Is Lewis the chap who has children baptised at Abergwili and is called "Levi" in the register?

[ElizabethHerts]

A (later?) Lewis Bowen is mentioned here as well as a Will: Bowen.

http://carmarthenshirehistorian.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Historian/TheHouseholdAccountsOfAn18thCenturyMansion

[tenterfieldjulie]

According to William Bowen's marriage to Ann Jones he was 25 at marriage so born 1724 so he wouldn't be the William in Evan's will of 1729. David Bowen's will of 1698 refers to his brothers Evan and Robert so they are all using the same names .. will take some unravelling .. off to bed now .. will be back looking tomorrow .. many thanks ladies. Julie

[tenterfieldjulie]

Oh there was a Guilieumus Bowen baptised Pembrey 1724 father Davidus.

[ElizabethHerts]

That man seemed to stay in Pembrey, Julie:

First name(s) WILLIAM
Last name BOWEN
Age 86
Birth year 1723
Death year 1809
Burial year 1809
Burial day 26
Burial month Jul
Parish Pembrey
Place PEMBREY
County Carmarthenshire
Country Wales
Record set Carmarthen Burials

[ElizabethHerts]

Hesther Bowen married Owen Morris by licence:

First Name HESTER
Last name BOWEN
Banns year 1777
Banns day -
Banns month -
Marriage year 1777
Marriage day 8
Marriage month Jul
Marriage place ABERGWILI
Spouse's first name(s) OWEN
Spouse's last name MORRIS
Groom's parish Malborough, Wilts
Bride's parish Abergwilly
County Carmarthenshire
Country Wales
Record set Carmarthen Banns


William and Thomas Bowen were witnesses.

[ElizabethHerts]

Mary Bowen, Edward's widow, seems to have married again:

First name(s) MARY
Last name BOWEN
Banns year 1804
Banns day -
Banns month -
Marriage year 1804
Marriage day 22
Marriage month Sep
Marriage place ABERGWILI
Spouse's first name(s) JOHN
Spouse's last name REES
Groom's parish Abergwilly, Carmarthen
Bride's parish Abergwilly, Carmarthen
County Carmarthenshire
Country Wales
Record set Carmarthen Banns

[tenterfieldjulie]

Many thanks Liza that takes care of the Pembrey man.
Thanks for the marriage of Hester. There was also a Hester born to Edward's 2nd wife.

[ElizabethHerts]

I have just sent you an e-mail, Julie.

[ElizabethHerts]

Julie, you have probably got a few more surnames to add to the Members' Surname List now!

[tenterfieldjulie]

Hi Liza .. sure do .. absolutely chuffed ..
Can you look and see if you can find birth of Ann Bowen dau of Edward and death of Ann 1st wife of Edward in 1780.
In William's will he mentions at the end, a daughter of Edward's, Ann. William died 2/1/1781. Edward and Ann's son Richard was bapt 25/11/1779 and then Edward marries for a 2nd time to Anne Taylor 30/5/1781.
I'd say it was a similar scenario to what happened to the 2nd wife, with Hester being born and that Ann dying. Thanks. Julie

[ElizabethHerts]

I haven't found an Ann indexed but this one popped up:

First name(s) MARY ANNE
Last name BOWEN
Birth year 1786
Birth day -
Birth month -
Baptism year 1786
Baptism day 18
Baptism month Apr
Baptism place ABERGWILI
Father's first name(s) Edward
Mother's first name(s) -
County Carmarthenshire
Country Wales
Record set Carmarthen Baptisms

Edit:
OOH! It says "by his 3d wife". However, the vicar didn't bother with the wife's name.

[ElizabethHerts]

The vicar doesn't seem to bother with Edward's wives' Christian names.

I found a burial:
1780
May 14th Mrs Bowen

No further details.:(

[ElizabethHerts]

Julie, Edward was quite a lad!

I found Anne's baptism:

Baptized Anno 1775
Jan the 16th Anne the illegitimate Dr of Anne Ri?? & Edward Bowen her reputed father

[tenterfieldjulie]

Aha .. so William acknowledged Anne as Edward's child and his grandchild in his will. Edward married Ann Thomas 28 April 1775 three months after Anne's baptism. So three Anne's then a Mary .. quite a lad .. and then his oldest son became a minister ..
Mary would have been the one who raised the children and Richard, my ancestor, named his oldest daughter Mary. Truth is stranger than fiction.

[tenterfieldjulie]

I found a will for Ann Bowen 1799 in which she says that she is the widow of William, late of Rhuwdowyll. She leaves everything to her daughter, Hester Morris, widow of late Owen Morris, Excise Officer. Not sure quite how that fits with Richard having the pub associated with the Rebecca Riots.

Also found a very large will for Edward Bowen, Yeoman, Merthyr, Carmarthen for 1693. I have a feeling that he could be William's grandfather but I just to find his father first lol..

Oh strangely on a tree on Ancestry for the marriage of William Bowen to Ann Jones there is a date of 27/10/1749, but fs and freereg have 15/11/1749.
They also give ages of 25 and 21 and they definitely aren't on the marriage. Could there be another record? Would a bond have that sort of information?

[ElizabethHerts]

Julie, I expect William and Ann married by licence and the information was from the allegation.

[tenterfieldjulie]

I've been reading through the wills ... very badly
in the will of Evan 1746 he makes his nephew William Bowen of Rhiwowill (variants) trustee and names his sister Catherine.
David 1698 has brothers Evan, Robert and Lewis
Rees Bowen 1690 has sons Evan, David, Lewis, Robert

I think .. heading off to bed now .. William I'm pretty sure is a grandson of Rees Bowen or is he a great grandson.. possibly father is Robert (son John in 1690) or Lewis (John, Thomas, Ann, Sarah in 1690).. grrh .. I'm thinking that William is older to be considered to be suitable to be trustee

[tenterfieldjulie]

Summary of WILLS family information on the BOWENS of ABERGWILI –
from NATIONAL LIBRARY OF WALES

EVAN THOMAS BOWEN – WILL 1668 - abergwili, yeoman
I Couldn’t read it

REES BOWEN– 1690 - July – Abergwilly Dowafal? – (9/8/1690)
Robert – youngest sonne;
Lewis Bowen sonne; (Small bequest) - grandchildren John, Thomas, Ann & Sarah
grandchildren- children of Anthony John; Rees, Robert, Dorothy & Samuell
David – sonne
Evan – sonne - executor
Walter – sonne (small bequest)

WALTER BOWEN – 1690 – Bond – Mariam/Mary/Maria?

DAVID BOWEN, GENT – 1698
Brother Evan

Wife Sara
Brother Robert
Brother Lewis

EVAN BOWEN, GENT – 1729
(part of inventory is for Rhudowillll (7 cows, 4 horses, corn, hay, 4 piggs, 20 sheep etc)
Robert – son
Thomas – son (under 15)
Rowland - son
John - son
Luke – son (under 15)
Rees - son
Elizabeth, grandchild, daughter of David Davies
William – executor
(Grismond Phillips, of Cwingwily, Esq; John Powell, of Ponybank, Esq., and David Davies, my Son in Law, Tutors and Guardians of my children during their minority. (1726)

EVAN BOWEN– 1746
Sister – Catherine Bowen
Niece – Anne Thomas
Nephew – Thomas James
Loving Nephew – William James
Nephew – William Bowen of Rhiwdowill to be trustee during the absence of William James

WILLIAM BOWEN – 1781 – Rhywdowill
Son – Thomas
Daughter – Hester
Wife – Ann
Son – Edward
Grandchildren – Charls & Richard (of Edward)
Grandchild – Thomas
Grandchild - Ann (dau of Edward my son)

From the family information in the wills and the property name "Rhywdowill" (and variants), I think that my ancestor William Bowen's father was Evan (died 1729) whose father was Rees (died 1690). Is this a fair assumption? The only fly in the ointment is the age of William .. who must have been older than born 1724.
(I have not seen a document but this year was on a tree on Ancestry.) William was married 1749. Is there another death of William Bowen of Rhywdowill lurking between 1746 and 1781? Thanks Julie

[kiterunner]

EVAN THOMAS BOWEN – WILL 1668 - abergwili, yeoman
I Couldn’t read it



This is my attempt at it but unfortunately the bit where he actually makes his bequests and appoints his executors is in a mess because it looks as though a whole line was missed out and then written in above where it should go.



In the Name of God Amen the Ninth day of September in the yeare of the Lord God One Thousand Six hundred Sixti and Three I Evan Thomas Bowen of the p[ar]ishe of Abergwily in the County of Carmarthen yeoman being sick in body but of Good and perfect Mind and memory laude and prayse be given to Allmighty God and calling to Remembrance the uncertaine Estate of this transitory lyfe and that all Flesh must yeild unto death when it shall please God to call Doe make Constitute Ordaine and declare this my last will and Testament in manner form and folowing Revokinge and annullinge by these presents all and every Testament and testaments will and wills heretofor by me made and declared Eyther by worde or by writtinge and this is to be taken Only for my last will and testament and none other First being penitent and ??? from the bottome of my hart for my since past ........................... forgiveness for the same I give and Consine my Soule unto Allmighty God my Saviour and Redeemer in whome and by the merritte of Jesus Christ I trust and belive assuredly to be Saved and to have full Remission and forgivenesse of all my Since And that my Soule with my body att the Genall day of Resurrection shall rise againe with Joy and through the meritte of Christs death and passion possesse and Inheritte the kingdome of heaven prepared for his Elect and Chosen and my body be buried in Christian burialle in such place where it shall please my Executors here after named to appoint And for the settlinge of my personal Estte and such Goods as I have Cattles and Chattels debts and all my ????? I doe nominatte Constitute and appoint Marry David my weded weife and Hary Evan my Second Sonne to whome I give and Bequeath to be my ??? and jointe Executors all my Goods Catles and Chatles moveable and inmoveable ????? and household stufe and all there things whattsoever that is ???? Right due unto mee by any maner of wayes whatsoever In Wittness here off I have here unto put my hand and sealle the day and yeare first Above Written

the marke of the above named Evan Thomas
Signed Sealled in the presence of David Evan, Harry Evan Thomas, ?????
Decimo octavo die Aprilis 1668 probetur et ??? David James

The names look to be patronymic, so Mary would be the daughter of a David, and the son Harry is given the name Harry Evan or Harry Evan Thomas instead of Harry Bowen. So possibly Evan's father was called Owen or Thomas, but maybe another with the surname Bowen?

[kiterunner]

REES BOWEN– 1690 - July – Abergwilly Dowafal? – (9/8/1690)


Whereabouts is the word that looks like Dowafal, please, Julie?

[kiterunner]

WALTER BOWEN – 1690 – Bond – Mariam/Mary/Maria?



It says Mary in the English bit, with Maria / Mariam being the Latin version.

[kiterunner]

DAVID BOWEN, GENT – 1698
Wife Doafos?


It looks like "after my wife deases", I guess they were trying to write "deceases" or similar.

[kiterunner]

From the family information in the wills and the property name "Rhywdowill" (and variants), I think that my ancestor William Bowen's father was Evan (died 1729) whose father was Rees (died 1690). Is this a fair assumption? The only fly in the ointment is the age of William .. who must have been older than born 1724. (I have not seen a document but this year was on a tree on Ancestry.) William was married 1749. Is there another death of William Bowen of Rhywdowill lurking between 1746 and 1781? Thanks Julie

There seem to be two Williams, don't there? One is the son of Evan who died 1729, as he makes his son William his executor, and the other the nephew of Evan who died 1746. Unless William had both a father and an uncle named Evan Bowen? I suppose it's possible.

I wouldn't give too much credence to a year of birth on a tree on ancestry unless they have evidence to back it up. They could have just guessed that he was 25 when he got married.

[kiterunner]

I have gone through the will of Evan 1729 and my notes are a little bit different from yours, Julie:

1729 Evan Bowen of Abergwily
son Robert
son Thomas (under 15)
son William (executor)
eldest son Rees
son Rowland
son John
son Luke (under 15)
brother Lewis Bowen
grandchild Elizabeth daughter of David Davies
grandchild Katherine
grandson Robert

But I was really looking to see whether he had a son called Evan who could be the one who died 1746. Didn't see one. Have we already been over this, or am I getting deja vu? I have to go out shopping now but will read back through the thread later.

[Phoenix]

Oh strangely on a tree on Ancestry for the marriage of William Bowen to Ann Jones there is a date of 27/10/1749, but fs and freereg have 15/11/1749.
They also give ages of 25 and 21 and they definitely aren't on the marriage. Could there be another record? Would a bond have that sort of information?

Aren't the ages just the standard covention guestimates for ages at first marriage?

The difference in dates intrigues me, though. It could be pure error (like the ones I make lots of!) or the date of banns. Except that Hardwicke's Act was still four years away and I've never heard of anyone recording banns before that date.

[kiterunner]

I just remembered that the Welsh marriage bonds are available on the National Library of Wales website and I had a look on there but couldn't find a bond for William Bowen / Ann Jones Oct-Nov 1749. The search on there is quite difficult to use though. Also FamilySearch has Welsh marriage bonds to browse (in the Wales, Court and Miscellaneous Records) and I looked at the marriage bonds for St Davids 1749-1750, which seem to be in order of date, and couldn't find them in there either.

[kiterunner]

Okay, now I have looked at the public tree on ancestry. If it's the same one that you looked at, Julie, then the "age 25" and "age 21" shown on the marriage have just been added in by ancestry's family tree software based on the approximate dates of birth that the tree owner put in. So it is just guesswork.

[kiterunner]

My gut feeling is that your William is the nephew of the Evan who died in 1746 and not the son of the Evan who died in 1729, but I can't find anything to sort them out at the moment.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Many many thanks Kate.

The only thing that makes me think there is a direct connection to Evan who died 1729, is that in the inventory of property .. what I read part way down, is a 2nd property listed named Rhudowilll with 7 cows, 4 horses etc ..

Thank you for adding under 15 (that was just my guess at what constituted a minor in age)

I am wondering if the 2nd Evan was born somewhere between 1726, when Evan sen wrote his will and 1729, when he died. Unfortunately the 2nd Evan doesn't name his brothers, but he definitely claims William of Rhydowill as his nephew.

Got to go out now. Many thanks again ladies I will return. Julie

[tenterfieldjulie]

I think the marriage Post 4 of Edward Bowen to Ann Thomas at Dafen in 1775 is a red herring.
I found on Freereg the marriage of Edward Jones Bowen, Gentleman, to Ann Lewis on 26/2/1775 at Abergwili.
This couple I believe are the birth parents of Charles and Richard.

I also found on fs a bapt at Abergwili of Evan Bowen 29/9/1729. Could someone have a look and see if his father is Evan? I am hoping he might be the youngest son of Evan who died 1729. (Evan Sen made his will Feb 1726, but didn't die until Nov 1729)

Thanks Kate for finding Evan (will 1729), had a brother Lewis named in his will. I think that ties Evan 1729; David 1698; Walter 1690 to father Rees 1690 ... plus Lewis and Robert youngest, who appear to die after 1729.

There doesn't appear to be much around on their marriages though.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Thomas Bowen, Edward Jones Bowen's younger brother, married 1777 Mary Thomas at Abergwili. Their son Thomas was born 1778 at Abergwili, then it appears that, after, or around Thomas' father William's death, they move 5 miles away to Llanegwad, where Anne was born 1781 and Hester 1783. Mary then dies and in 1785 Thomas, a widower, marries Eleanor David at Llanegwad. They have children, Elizabeth 1786 and William 1789 at Llanegwad. Thomas died in 1801 and names his children, including Anne, the wife of George Williams. He still has property at Abergwilly. He also leaves a rider to his will that if Elenor remarries, she will be cut out of the will, but I think she waits for a couple of years to do this!!

I am looking for a burial for Mary Bowen between 1783 and 1785. I cannot find one at Llanegwad, but there is one in 1783 at Abergwili. Can anyone see please if there is any further information on this burial that might confirm that she is Thomas Bowen's wife?
Thank you. Julie

[ElizabethHerts]

I also found on fs a bapt at Abergwili of Evan Bowen 29/9/1729. Could someone have a look and see if his father is Evan? I am hoping he might be the youngest son of Evan who died 1729. (Evan Sen made his will Feb 1726, but didn't die until Nov 1729)


Julie, there is no father given for "Evanus Bowen" - just the date of baptism.:(

[kiterunner]

It is definitely a baptism, is it, not a burial written in the wrong section?

[ElizabethHerts]

It is definitely a baptism, is it, not a burial written in the wrong section?

I wondered that but no indication at the top of the page. Very few of the entries on the page have father's name given so it does look much more like a page of burials than a page of baptisms so it could well be indexed incorrectly.

I'll try another page in a moment.

When I searched for other Bowen baptisms +/- 10 years there was nothing.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Thanks Liza and Kate. I found on the FMP Index, baptisms at Abergwili for the 2 sons of Evan's who were under 15 in 1726: - Thomas bpt 1713 and Lucas (Luke) 1717. There did not appear to be earlier ones. I think it possible that he married twice, but the records don't appear to have survived unfortunately.