Who Do You Think You Are - Billy Connolly 2nd Oct

[kiterunner]

On BBC1 tonight at 9 p.m.

[Olde Crone]

Let us all pray he didn't have a bagpipe maker in his ancestry.

OC

[maggie_4_7]

Looking forward to this one, this one and Martin Shaw were the two I was most interested in and Martin Shaw's was excellent but I also thought Reggie Yates was very good too.

I expect there will be some Irish history in it.

[Ann from Sussex]

Especially looking forward to this one as, by coincidence, I went to see him in the new film What We Did on Our Holiday this afternoon.

[borobabs]

Well I really enjoyed that so interesting love it when there pleaseed with whays been found out

[kiterunner]

Episode synopsis:

Billy Connolly was born in 1942 and grew up in the Anderson area of Glasgow. He has 5 children and 2 grandchildren. His mother left the family when he was only 4 years old and he didn't see her again until he was in his twenties. He wanted to find out about her mother, his granny Florence McGowan.

Florence's birth certificate showed that she was born in 1902, the daughter of Patrick McGowan and Mary McGowan nee Doyle. Billy looked at the family on the 1911 census which showed that Patrick and Mary were both born in Lanarkshire, but the 1901 census showed Mary's birthplace as Ireland.

Billy went to Glasgow and was shown Mary's baptism record, showing that she was baptised in Bangalore, India. Her parents were Daniel and Margaret Doyle. Daniel was a Gunner in the Royal Horse Artillery.

Billy travelled to India and was shown Daniel Doyle's military records which showed that he was born in Hollywood, County Wicklow, and joined the army in 1856 giving his age as 18 and his trade as labourer. He was stationed at Wellington, a garrison town in southern India, and volunteered for the Royal Artillery and was then transferred to the RHA. He received three good conduct badges and was promoted to Corporal in 1863, but then appeared 16 times in the defaulters' book and a court martial, and was demoted to Gunner. In 1866 he was in hospital in Bangalore.

Billy travelled to Bangalore to look at Daniel's hospital records, which showed that he had suffered from various conditions such as dysentery, diarrhoea, ebriosity (= drunkenness), enuresis, ulcers, etc, some of which could have been caused by alcoholism, also from syphilis.

Daniel Doyle married Margaret O'Brien on the 15th Jun 1869 and his conduct seems to have improved after this. He was discharged from the army in 1878 and returned to Britain.

Billy was shown the Doyles' applications for poor relief. Daniel died in 1902 from a stroke, and Margaret then applied for further poor relief in 1903, was admitted to the poorhouse, and applied for relief again on the 18th Sep 1905 for the last time. The researcher had not been able to find out what happened to her after this, but the documents did show that Margaret was born in East India, the daughter of John O'Brien and Matilda Allen.

Margaret's baptism record from 1852 showed that John O'Brien was a Private in the 1st Madras Fusiliers, and served during the Indian Mutiny at the sieges of Cawnpore and Lucknow. Billy met a military historian and visited the locations of the sieges. He was told that John appeared on the wounded list with a severe gunshot wound in his left shoulder and that the O'Briens' second daughter was born at the time of the mutiny, when Margaret was 5. John O'Brien, number 2252, was listed on the medal roll as receiving a clasp for the defence of Lucknow.

Billy was shown a record stating that John O'Brien was pensioned out of the army in 1859, choosing to stay in India. There were baptism records for several more children: George in 1864, William in 1866, and another child in 1872.

Billy then visited St Patrick's Church in Bangalore to find out about Matilda. The marriage records showed that John O'Brien married Matilda Ellen on the 6th Jul 1845. There was a baptism record for Matilda Allan on the 20th May 1845 with no information about her parents, but giving her year of birth as 1832. Billy met a local historian at the Bangalore Club, who showed him the marriage record of another of the O'Brien children, Mary, showing her as "East Indian" which would mean that Matilda was of Indian origins.

[kiterunner]

I wished that the local historian had explained to Billy that it was quite common for soldiers in India to marry very young girls, just because there was such a shortage of suitable wives. There are lots in the India branch of my tree who married very young. Billy seemed to think that Matilda's young age at her marriage was explained by the fact that her parents were Indian, but white girls also married very young in India at that time.

[Olde Crone]

Snap, Kate. I have at least one white English girl married at age 12 in India in the early 1800s. (Married to a much older man). Also, the minimum legal age for female marriage in England/Wales was 12 until the 1920s, so India wasn't the exception in allowing very young marriages.

I have always liked Billy Connelly, so I watched this with interest but have to admit my attention wandered a bit during the Indian History lectures!

OC

[kiterunner]

FamilySearch has the birth of a William Patrick Doyle 14 Mar 1879 in Dublin, parents Daniel Doyle and Margaret Obrien Doyle, so it looks as though Daniel and Margaret went to live in Ireland after Daniel left the army. That could be why Mary gives her birthplace as Ireland on one of the censuses.

[Guinevere]

I enjoyed this episode but was sad to see that Billy's health isn't good. His sense of humour remains intact, though.

[Ann from Sussex]

Loved it! I would have found it interesting anyway but this had a personal twist for me. My gt grandfather George Beaumont was the same age as Daniel Doyle, joined the army aged 18 in the same year as Daniel and was immediately sent to India. He was a cavalryman and took part in the relief of Lucknow and also the relief of Dehli. He was also court martialled several times (like Daniel) and reduced from sergeant to private. He was 18 years older than my gt grandmother who he seems to have met when he came back to England after spending 10 years in India. I have never found a marriage record for them and we often wondered if George has left a wife in India. Nothing has ever turned up to support that theory either but I still wonder. The similarities with Daniel Doyle's story had me spellbound for the entire programme. Best of the series so far for me!

[Shona]

That was a great episode - ticked lots of boxes. There was a flavour of the original remit in that concepts of identity and heritage were challenged - albeit gently. Billy thought he was Scottish with some Irish roots, yet discovered he had Indian ancestry, too (echos of Alistair McGowan?), which he embraced.

I found it refreshing Billy didn't judge the past based on current concepts of morality and that he couldn't wait to tell his children about the discoveries.

[maggie_4_7]

That was a great episode - ticked lots of boxes. There was a flavour of the original remit in that concepts of identity and heritage were challenged - albeit gently. Billy thought he was Scottish with some Irish roots, yet discovered he had Indian ancestry, too (echos of Alistair McGowan?), which he embraced.

I found it refreshing Billy didn't judge the past based on current concepts of morality and that he couldn't wait to tell his children about the discoveries.

I haven't watched it yet but when I read the posts regarding India and McGowan I immediately thought of Alastair McGowan's WDYTYA too.

[maggie_4_7]

I just finished watching this episode - hey the Big Yin from Glasgow is now part Indian and he loved it.

Thoroughly enjoyed it but I always enjoy watching Billy whatever he's in.

[Jen Red Purple]

Like Ann, I loved the Indian part of this. OH's gggfther was at Cawnpoor & Lucknow. We have a bloodstained family bible (unrelated family) picked up at one of the sites and a mounted piece of shell with a plaque explaining it had shattered the scabbard of the rellie but not hurt him. The bible's family seems to have died out or I would have contacted them with pics of it.

[Nell]

I enjoyed this very much. Billy has an infectious enthusiasm for life and a genuine interest in people. I knew a bit about the Indian Mutiny from school, but they certainly didn't teach us about the atrocities committed by the British, a shameful fact of our history. I also liked the fact Billy was surprised about his ancestor being drunk and having syphilis, both of which were rife in the Army!

[Rosie Knees]

Only just watched tthis episode and I really enjoyed it. Have an ancestor who was despatched to India with his regiment in during the mutiny but not sure if he arrived in time to take part.