Blame Shona for this one! Something to get your teeth into?

[Merry]

That Jack the Ripper thread on the other board got me reading about "Jack" again and I have now got myself hooked on unravelling this detail....goodness knows why......but I'm stuck so it's time to get someone else/others hooked instead!

James Maybrick (1838-1889) is one of the suspects because of diaries he supposedly wrote that came to light about 20 years ago. After his death in 1889, his wife, Florence Maybrick (nee Chandler), was convicted of his murder by poisoning in a sensational trial. The "Aigburth Poisoning" (My gran was always ranting on about this trial even though it happened before she was born). However, it's neither James nor Florence I'm interested in, but the supposed previous Mrs Maybrick (probably common law wife) who is mentioned on a few websites.

James married Florence Chandler in 1881 at St James' Piccadilly (image is on FMP). He said he was a bachelor. Some websites suggest he hid this marriage from his mistress, Sarah Ann Robertson.

Sarah Ann Robertson

Her year of birth is reported between 1852 and 1855.

It is reported that in 1868 her step-father's will gives her name as Sarah Ann Maybrick wife of James Maybrick (but she would have been very young, so I don't think that can be her or it's made up! No one seems to mention the name of her step-father)

In 1851 they say this is Sarah:

1851:
1 Pastern Row, Tower Hamlets
Head: Charles James Case aged 36 born Strand, London - Tobacconist
Wife: Christiana Case aged 31 born Sunderland <<<<<Sarah's aunt, nee Robertson
Niece: Sarah Ann Robertson aged 15 born Sunderland <<<<<

So ten years older than her supposed dob so the step-father's will info might now be valid.

1861:
36 Jamaica Street, Stepney
Head: Charles J Case aged 40 born St Catherine - Watch jobber
Wife: Christiana Case aged 42 born Sunderland <<<< aunt
Sarah herself is listed as an assistant as follows:
172 Fenchurch Street, London
Head: Ellen Dewdney (Widow) aged 27 born Stepney - Hair jeweller
Assistant: Sarah Robertson aged 25 born Sunderland <<<<<<<<<<

1871:
55 Bromley Street, Stepney
Head: Thomas Conconi aged 42 born Margate, Kent - Paymaster (Ret.)
Wife: Christianna Conconi aged 48 born Sunderland <<<<<<<<<<aunt remarried
Niece: Sarah Maybrick (Married) aged 33 born Sunderland - Merchants clerk wife <<<<<< details fit well for OH being James Maybrick

1881:
Head: Christiana Conconi (Widow) aged 59 born Sunderland, Durham - No occupation <<<<<<<<<aunt
Niece: Sarah A Robertson aged 35 born Sunderland - No occupation <<< reverted to maiden name
Daughter: Gertrude B Conconi aged 8 born Portsmouth
Nephew: George Smith aged 14 born Sunderland

1891:
265 Queen's Road, Deptford
Head: Christiana Conconi (Widow) aged 69 born Sunderland - Living on own means
Daughter: Gertrude aged 18 born Portsmouth
Niece: Sarah Robertson aged 44 born Sunderland <<<<<
Her age is a bit wobbly...

1851: 15
1861: 25
1871: 33
1881: 35
1891: 44

and are these then her (different birthplace and a new set of relations):

1901:
9 Nelson St, Greenwich
William Hartnett head m 43 House decorator b Deptford
Hannah Hartnett 30 wife m 30 b Deptford
William Hartnett 3 son b Deptford
Nellie Hartnett 8 dau b Deptford
Frank Bess 20 serv b Deptford
Sarah Maybrick step mother wid 50 b Scotland <<<<<<<<<

I can't work out how she is step-mother. or any relation for that matter!

1911:
125 Douglas St Deptford
Hannah E Hartnett head wid 39 greengrocer b Deptford
Sarah A Maybrick aunt wid 59 (married 35 years) b Dumfriesshire Sanquhar? (I think, but misspelled) Note she says aunt as relationship to head!
Nellie Hartnett dau 18 b London New Cross
Elsie Hartnett dau 9 b Greenwich
Sarah Croomes serv 17 b Deptford

Hannah Hartnett had maiden surname Reed and I think her parents were William and Bridget.

There are some electoral roll entries for Sarah Maybrick in Deptford from 1918 to 1930 (though she was dead by then!), but not living with the Hartnetts.

Deaths Mar 1927
Maybrick Sarah A 72 Wandsworth 1d 785
Robertson Sarah A 72 Wandsworth 1d 785

Apparently the death cert has both names.

So, really all I was originally trying to discover was the name of Sarah's stepfather, but I got a bit carried away! Are they definitely all the same person - that's the real point. And did the mysterious stepfather really exist with a will that everyone quotes, but who doesn't seem to have a name?

I might have to go to the supermarket whilst you sort this out, but will be back a bit later! :D:D:D

[kiterunner]

Not sure where to start!

Details of the Hartnetts' wedding, in case it comes in handy:
1 Jul 1891 St Paul Deptford
William Hartnett 32, bachelor, printer, 20 Charles Street, father Alexander Hartnett, labourer
Hannah Reed, 21, spinster, 278 New Cross Road, father William Reed, labourer
Witnesses William Potter, Eliza Reed

[kiterunner]

This looks like Hannah's father in 1891, widowed:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/6598/LNDRG12_496_498-0356/8489542?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3duki1891%26rank %3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dgeo*%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dre%253fd%26 gsln_x%3dXO%26gskw%3dde%253ftf*d%26gskw_x%3d1%26db Only%3d_F0003038%257c_F0003038_x%252c_F00027B9%257 c_F00027B9_x%252c_F0003039%257c_F0003039_x%252c_F0 00303A%257c_F000303A_x%252c_83004006%257c_83004006 _x%252c_F00032DB%257c_F00032DB_x%26uidh%3dvm5%26gl %3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d10%26fsk%3dBED5mZkIg AAZxgEtsDw-61-&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[kiterunner]

Trying a different tack.

Sarah's aunt Christiana Lindsey Robertson married Charles James Case Oct-Dec 1847 but I can't see the marriage in the London PR's.
But her second marriage, to Thomas David Conconi, is there. 17 May 1866 at St Peter, Mile End Old Town. Christiana's father is Alexander Hay Robertson, deceased.
And Sarah Ann Maybrick is one of the witnesses:
London PR image (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31280_194809-00374/6563662?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3dLMAmarriages%2 6rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26so%3d3%26MSAV%3d2%26gss%3dms _r_db%26gsfn%3dchr*%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dcase%26 gsln_x%3dXO%26msgdy%3d1866%26msgdy_x%3d1%26dbOnly% 3d_F0005A49%257c_F0005A49_x%26dbOnly%3d_F0005A5D%2 57c_F0005A5D_x%26dbOnly%3d_F00058A6%257c_F00058A6_ x%26uidh%3dvm5%26msgdp%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

The other witness is Daniel Rawson(?) Gray.

[kiterunner]

FamilySearch has the baptism of Christiana Lindsay Robertson 8 Nov 1817 Sunderland, parents Alexander Hay Robertson and Sarah Pell. These are their other children listed on FamilySearch, one of whom could be Sarah Ann's parent:

Sarah Elizabeth 28 Apr 1811
Ann 10 Jan 1813
George Frederick 22 Oct 1815
Alice 24 Dec 1819
Mary Livingstone 17 Jan 1822
Margaret Knight 9 Aug 1824
Alexander Hay White 7 Oct 1827

Mary married a John Ball 28 Dec 1845 at Bishop Wearmouth, Durham.

[kiterunner]

According to a public tree on ancestry, Sarah Elizabeth Robertson born 1811 married a George Bradshaw, and this is them in Bishopsgate, Middlesex, in 1841 with some of the Robertsons:
1841 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/MDXHO107_720_721-0307/7965007?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1841%26h%3d7965007%26ti%3d 5538%26indiv%3dtry%26gss%3dpt%26ssrc%3dpt_t3592419 1_p20313206525_kpidz0q3d20313206525z0q26pgz0q3d327 68z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&ssrc=pt_t35924191_p20313206525_kpidz0q3d2031320652 5z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid&backlabel=ReturnRecord)
George Bradshaw 30 Hosier N
Sarah Do 30 N
George Do 8 N
Alexander Do 6 N
Henry Do 1 Y
Sarah Robertson 55 F S N
Ann Do 25 " N
Margaret Do 15 " N
Alexander Do 13 M S N
Emma Boston 15 F S N

So your Sarah Ann should probably be the daughter of either George Frederick, Alice, or Mary as they aren't with this lot.

[Merry]

This looks like Hannah's father in 1891, widowed:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/6598/LNDRG12_496_498-0356/8489542?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3duki1891%26rank %3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dgeo*%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dre%253fd%26 gsln_x%3dXO%26gskw%3dde%253ftf*d%26gskw_x%3d1%26db Only%3d_F0003038%257c_F0003038_x%252c_F00027B9%257 c_F00027B9_x%252c_F0003039%257c_F0003039_x%252c_F0 00303A%257c_F000303A_x%252c_83004006%257c_83004006 _x%252c_F00032DB%257c_F00032DB_x%26uidh%3dvm5%26gl %3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d10%26fsk%3dBED5mZkIg AAZxgEtsDw-61-&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

I'm not sure if that is him unless he had daughters Elizabeth and Eliza, or unless I've missed some other important point!

I think this is him with dau Hannah in 1881 (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/LNDRG11_701_705-0068/7599469?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1881%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dROO T_CATEGORY%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26M SAV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-g%26gsfn%3dbridget%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dreed%26g sln_x%3dXO%26gskw%3ddeptford%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt%3 d1%26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3d672%26cp%3d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults).

I can't find a marriage between William and Bridget (who I would have liked to have been a Robertson!), nor can I find Hannah with her parents in 1871 (I think she was registered towards the end of 1870 as Read).#

Like you that makes me want to switch over to looking at the Robertsons as at least the have the right surname!

[Merry]

Ah!

It's Sarah's step-father who is supposed to have died in 1863, but Christiana's first husband died in 1863. I wonder if Christiana is Sarah's mother?


Name: Charles James Case
Registration Year: 1863
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Mile End Old Town
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1c
Page: 426

Hmmmm, can't see a will for him though, so maybe a coincidence?

[kiterunner]

FamilySearch has a George Frederick Robertson marrying an Agnes Douglas 5 Sep 1841 Barony, Lanark, Scotland. But there is a likely birth for that one in Greenock in 1820 so we can probably ignore him.

[kiterunner]

I'm not sure if that is him unless he had daughters Elizabeth and Eliza, or unless I've missed some other important point!

I think this is him with dau Hannah in 1881 (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/LNDRG11_701_705-0068/7599469?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1881%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dROO T_CATEGORY%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26M SAV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-g%26gsfn%3dbridget%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dreed%26g sln_x%3dXO%26gskw%3ddeptford%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt%3 d1%26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3d672%26cp%3d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults).



That's why I thought I had found him in 1891 - because of his son George.

[kiterunner]

I can't find a marriage between William and Bridget (who I would have liked to have been a Robertson!), nor can I find Hannah with her parents in 1871 (I think she was registered towards the end of 1870 as Read).#



There is a Hannah Read age 6 months born Greenwich on the 1871 census with parents Chas and Amelia R. Could it be her birth that you found?

[Merry]

Yes, very likely!

I noticed some trees on Ancestry have a child between James Maybrick and Sarah Ann Robertson. (On the trees she is called Margaret Minetta Maybrick, b Whittlesea Cambs, no date). In 1911 she is with (probably not married to) Mark Woolston in Whittlesea but she is born in London aged 37 with four children. There's another Woolston(e)/Maybrick child born a couple of years later in the same area.

HOWEVER, I googled Margaret Minetta Maybrick and found this (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=NLyY0b8QFFoC&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=Margaret+Minetta+Maybrick&source=bl&ots=XDjTdeI8WQ&sig=OkF2SzyIrjg5bsG6wdNyNZYuUe8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vpAlVOz3E-i07QaQsICICw&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=MARGARET%20MINETTA&f=false). I now have a headache from reading some of that!! Maybe it's time to give up? I'm sure this is worse than my tree!!

[kiterunner]

I now have a headache from reading some of that!! Maybe it's time to give up? I'm sure this is worse than my tree!!

Yes, maybe. Did you finish looking at the Sees, by the way? I posted a load of stuff on your thread but you never replied.

[Merry]

Ooops, sorry - I did read your posts at 2am on Tuesday, but promptly forgot all about them! I would have got to it next time I open my tree, but that might be next week :o:o:o