Who Do You Think You Are - Martin Shaw 18th Sep

[kiterunner]

On BBC1 at 9 p.m.

[Guinevere]

I do like Martin Shaw.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Martin Shaw - *drools*

Jay

[Merry]

I'm getting behind! This is the 4th in the series I won't get to see, because I'm outvoted for control of the remote on Thursdays! I must try and catch up on iPlayer. Which has been the best so far, in case I don't manage them all? I've not seen Brian Blessed, Sheridan Smith or Mary Berry.

[kiterunner]

Out of those three, I would say Mary Berry was the best, then Brian Blessed, and Sheridan Smith was the worst. Unless you're obsessed with the banjo.

[Guinevere]

I loved this one.

Such a lovely man. *sigh*

[kiterunner]

Episode Synopsis.

Martin Shaw was born in Birmingham in Jan 1945 and was brought up there, but now he lives in Norfolk. His father was 21 and his mother 19 when they married. Martin had a photo of his father Frank and his aunt Lillian and their mother Alice all looking sad, from the 1930's. The family story was that Martin's grandfather Edwin Shaw left Alice and the children for another woman, around 1931. Another photo showed Edwin in a Royal Marines uniform, age about 17 or 18.


Martin met a military historian who showed him the Royal Marine service record of Edwin James Shaw. His date of birth was shown as 24 Dec 1899, birthplace All Saints Birmingham. He joined up on the 3rd Jun 1918 and was demobbed in Mar 1919. He then joined the 5th Battalion of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment, a Territorial Army unit, in 1921.

Martin went to the Imperial War Museum to find out about his grandfather's service in the Territorial Army. He was shown Edwin's service record, which showed that he attended the annual training every year, was promoted to Lance Corporal, and was "embodied", i.e. brought into service, on the 1st Sep 1939, appointed Troop Sergeant Major to the 378 Searchlight Battery who were posted at Sheldon in Birmingham, first defending the Castle Bromwich factory where Spitfires were built, and then the aerodrome.

Martin then went to Winson Green, where the Shaw family lived, and visited the church where his grandparents married. He was shown their marriage certificate, which stated that Edwin James Shaw married Alice May Eaborn on the 8th Nov 1919, both aged 21. In fact they were both 19 as Alice's birth certificate showed that she was born on the 28th Feb 1900. Her father was Edwin Eaborn and her mother Mary Ann Eaborn nee Leaver.

Lillian's birth certificate showed that she was born on the 9th Jan 1920, so Alice would have been about 2 months pregnant when she married Edwin Shaw. The researcher could not find a baptism record for Lillian.

The electoral register for 1932 showed Alice and Edwin each back living with their respective parents, not far from each other.

Martin then traced the Eaborn tree back. He found Edwin and Mary Ann Eaborn on a public tree on ancestry with "colourised" photos which he recognised as his grandmother had had copies on her wall. The tree showed that Edwin Eaborn was born in Jul 1857 in Birmingham and had 12 children including Alice. Martin met a local historian who said that Edwin worked in the brass industry in Birmingham and showed him the 1851 census entry for Edwin Eaborn's parents - Edmund and Eliza Eaborn. Edmund was 33, a machinist, Eliza 31, and they had 4 children and a servant. Martin was shown an 1855 newspaper advertisement for the firm of Eaborn & Robinson, engineers, manufacturers of steam engines, and a London Gazette notice showing that they had applied for a patent on certain improvements to machinery used for confectionary manufacture. Martin went to 10 Clement Street where the factory was. The building is still standing, and he looked around the outside of it.

Martin was then shown the death certificates of Edmund Eaborn, who died 26 Jun 1857 age 39, and his partner Matthew Robinson who died 3 Aug 1858, age 32. Both died of TB. The company's stock was auctioned off in 1859. Martin visited Key Hill Cemetery where Edmund was buried. The grave has not survived as part of the graveyard was cleared for the tram lines, but there is a memorial on the wall listing the Eaborns who were buried there, including Edmund and his wife Eliza. Eliza died in 1896. Martin read Edmund's will which was written two days before his death and mentions that his wife was pregnant at the time - Edwin Eaborn was born a week after his father's death.

Martin then went to the Law Courts where a researcher showed him details of the Shaws' divorce. Alice divorced Edwin on the grounds of adultery on the 28th Jan 1935. Edwin went on to marry Annie May Walker,age 36, on the 25th May 1935, and Alice went on to marry Arthur John Hatfield on the 20th Jun 1936. Edwin and Annie had a daughter, Martin's half-aunt, Gabrielle Ann Patricia Shaw, born on the 17th Mar 1937. Gaby is still alive and wrote a letter to Martin enclosing family photos including one of her parents' wedding, and saying that the story she was told was that Alice fell in love with a neighbour, who died before she could marry him, and she then wanted Edwin back but by then he had fallen in love with Annie.

[maggie_4_7]

I loved this one.

Such a lovely man. *sigh*

He is isn't he

I liked this episode a lot.

[kiterunner]

Did anyone else think that the boy in Edwin and Annie's wedding photo looked like Martin's dad?

Also, why did Martin seemingly know nothing about Alice's second husband?

[kiterunner]

Oh, and that story about Lillian not being baptised because her parents were too ashamed of the fact that she was born just seven months after their wedding. Really?!

[maggie_4_7]

Did anyone else think that the boy in Edwin and Annie's wedding photo looked like Martin's dad?

Also, why did Martin seemingly know nothing about Alice's second husband?

Yes I think he did I thought it was obvious that he did but I expect the program makers wanted to present the two marriage certificates and the divorce together because of the dates also he might not have know exactly when they married. He was probably asked not to mention him.

[kiterunner]

There are two Arthur John Hatfield deaths in Birmingham - one in 1972 and one in 1977. I wonder whether one of them is Martin's step-grandfather? Also an Arthur J Hatfield death in 1951 but that one would have been a lot older than Alice. Alice May Hatfield died in 1982 and her date of birth matches with Martin's grandmother, so I am quite confused - surely he must have known that she was Mrs Hatfield, not Mrs Shaw, and figured out about the divorce?
(edit - sorry, Maggie, was posting at the same time as you.)

[maggie_4_7]

I expect he assumed there must have been a divorce because of his grandmother's second marriage but he probably didn't know the details. Also people then just didn't talk about things like they do now. Often it would all be left unsaid and certainly not discussed. I expect he felt he couldn't question his father and especially not his grandmother.

[kiterunner]

Here is the 1935 e roll entry for Alice and her mother at 4 Wagner Place:
1935 e roll ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2584/M0465i-00447/2889468?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dmidlandselectoral%26so%3d2%26 pcat%3d35%26new%3d1%26gsfn%3dalice%2bmay%26gsln%3d shaw%26rank%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26mswpn__ftp%3dBirmingham%252c%2bWarwickshire%25 2c%2bEngland%26mswpn%3d1652385%26mswpn_PInfo%3d8-%257c0%257c0%257c3257%257c3251%257c0%257c0%257c0%2 57c5288%257c1652385%257c0%257c%26sbo%3d0&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

Edwin and Alice Shaw in 1930 at 96 Moilliett Street:
1930 e roll ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2584/m0464i-00490/4429580?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dmidlandselectoral%26so%3d2%26 pcat%3d35%26new%3d1%26gsfn%3dalice%2bmay%26gsln%3d shaw%26rank%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26mswpn__ftp%3dBirmingham%252c%2bWarwickshire%25 2c%2bEngland%26mswpn%3d1652385%26mswpn_PInfo%3d8-%257c0%257c0%257c3257%257c3251%257c0%257c0%257c0%2 57c5288%257c1652385%257c0%257c%26sbo%3d0&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

In 1939 Alice and second husband Arthur are with Alice's mother, still at 4 Wagner Place:
1939 e roll ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2584/m0475i-00406/6106992?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3dMidlandsElecto ral%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26so%3d3%26MSAV%3d2%26pca t%3d35%26gss%3dms_r_db%26gsfn%3dalice%2bmay%26gsfn _x%3dXO%26gsln%3dhatfield%26gsln_x%3dXO%26msypn__f tp%3dBirmingham%252c%2bWarwickshire%252c%2bEngland %26msypn%3d1652385%26msypn_PInfo%3d8-%257c0%257c0%257c3257%257c3251%257c0%257c0%257c0%2 57c5288%257c1652385%257c0%257c%26msypn_x%3dXO%26ms ypn__ftp_x%3d1%26dbOnly%3d_F0005BDD%257c_F0005BDD_ x%26dbOnly%3d_F0006C8D%257c_F0006C8D_x%26uidh%3dvm 5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

Edwin Shaw and second wife Annie in 1935 at 64 Stanmore Road:
1935 e roll ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2584/M0465e-00092/3639920?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3dMidlandsElecto ral%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26so%3d3%26MSAV%3d2%26pca t%3d35%26gss%3dms_r_db%26gsfn%3dedwin%2bjames%2b%2 6gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dshaw%26gsln_x%3dXO%26msypn__ ftp%3dBirmingham%252c%2bWarwickshire%252c%2bEnglan d%26msypn%3d1652385%26msypn_PInfo%3d8-%257c0%257c0%257c3257%257c3251%257c0%257c0%257c0%2 57c5288%257c1652385%257c0%257c%26msypn_x%3dXO%26ms ypn__ftp_x%3d1%26dbOnly%3d_F0005BDD%257c_F0005BDD_ x%26dbOnly%3d_F0006C8D%257c_F0006C8D_x%26uidh%3dvm 5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

[kiterunner]

Ooh, here is a picture of Eaborn and Robinson's patent machinery:
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im1857EnV3-p246.jpg

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

I am glad I am not the only one who thought the boy in the wedding photo looked like martin's dad

[maggie_4_7]

Did anyone else think that the boy in Edwin and Annie's wedding photo looked like Martin's dad?

Also, why did Martin seemingly know nothing about Alice's second husband?

I am glad I am not the only one who thought the boy in the wedding photo looked like martin's dad

I am going to have another look glad I didn't delete it last night.

[kiterunner]

I am going to have another look glad I didn't delete it last night.

Looking at it again, he is too young to be Martin's dad as they married in 1935 and he was 12 or 13 by then.

[maggie_4_7]

There quite a few trees on ancestry with the Eaborn ancestors and Edwin J Shaw on.

[kiterunner]

Okay, I am putting two and two together here and making about ten!

On the 1930 Birmingham electoral register, Edwin and Alice are at 96 Moilliett Street. At number 102 is a Henry Llewellyn. In 1935, a different family is at each of those addresses. There is a death registration for a Henry Llewellyn Jan-Mar 1935 Birmingham, age 41. (The Shaws' divorce came through on the 28th Jan 1935.)

In 1925 and 1927 Henry Llewellyn was with a Florence Llewellyn, and there is a Florence Llewellyn death in 1930, age 37. So he may have been a widower in the early 1930's.

It all seems to fit with Henry Llewellyn being the neighbour who Alice fell in love with! But like I said, I'm probably putting two and two together and making ten...

[kiterunner]

National Probate Calendar for 1935:

LLEWELLYN Henry of 2 back of 83 Peel-street Birmingham died 1 January 1935 at the Dudley-road Hospital Birmingham Administration (limited) Birmingham 29 January to Emma Llewellyn widow and Alice Maud Turton (wife of Harry Turton). Effects £135 14s 6d.

On the 1935 e roll, Emma Llewellyn is at 2 Olive Place, Peel Street. She is also there in 1930 but doesn't have a Henry with her. Looking back through the e rolls, Emma seems to have been the householder as far back as 1912. On the 1911 census, there is an Emma Llewellyn, widow, age 46, at 23 Shakespeare Rd, Ladywood, Birmingham, with daughters Maud A 19 and Florry 16, and sons Harry 17 and Charles 13.

So it looks as though the Emma on the National Probate Calendar was Henry Llewellyn's mother, and Henry's address on there is his mother's address, but he wasn't living with her in 1930. So it could be the same Henry who lived 3 doors from the Shaws.

[kiterunner]

I wish the Birmingham newspapers from the 1930's were online! I would like to look at the "In Memoriam" column for Jan 1936 (or possibly 30 or 31 Dec 1935) to see whether there was a notice for Henry Llewellyn from Alice!