Who Do You Think You Are - Mary Berry 11th Sep

[kiterunner]

On BBC1 at 9 p.m.

[kiterunner]

Episode synopsis - lots of dates, links etc to fill in after I've typed it up...

Mary Berry is 79. She and her husband Paul have been married for nearly 50 years. They had three children, but their son William died in a car accident at the age of 19. Mary grew up on a farm in Bath. Her older brother Roger still lives in Bath, very close to their childhood home. Mary went to see Roger and their younger brother William, who had some old family photographs.

Mary's grandmother Annie Rosa Berry nee Suffolk died in 1907 in Nottingham at the age of 36, when Mary's father Alleyne William S Berry was only two. Her parents were William English Suffolk and his wife Eliza Amelia who died in Oct 1885 age 50, according to a memorial card which Mary's brothers showed her.

Eliza Amelia's father was Robert Houghton, born in Norwich in 1798.


In Norwich trade directories from 1830 to 1868, Robert Houghton is listed as a baker, and then baker and builder, at Ber Street, which was in a very rough part of Norwich. Mary was shown the 1861 census entry listing Robert as a baker employing 3 hands. She was also shown workhouse records stating that Robert Houghton supplied bread to the workhouse and also to paupers receiving "outdoor relief". She went to find out how they used to bake bread in Victorian times.
Robert Houghton 1861 census entry on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/NFKRG9_1213_1216-0687/17329213?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1861%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dROO T_CATEGORY%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26M SAV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-g%26gsfn%3drob*%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dh%253fughto n%26gsln_x%3dXO%26gskw%3dnorwich%26gskw_x%3d1%26cp xt%3d1%26catBucket%3dr%26uidh%3dvm5%26cp%3d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
Mary was shown a report in the Norfolk News dated Feb 10 1855 saying that the Mayor had received a complaint from the city paupers about the poor quality of the bread, but it had been tested by an inspector and found to be good. Then there was a death notice dated 21 Mar 1868, his date of death being the 12th. The death notice stated that he had been clerk of the parish for 34 years.


Mary then went on to look at the family of her grandfather, Edward Berry, a Church of England canon. She went to Norfolk Record Office, taking with her a private autobiography written by her father, which said that he knew very little about his grandparents and had only visited their house once. His grandfather Edward Berry sr had been a journeyman printer and ended up as either the foreman or owner of the printing business.

Edward Berry sr was born in 1845, and his birth certificate showed his mother's name as Mary Berry but no father's name was given. Mary was shown parish register baptism entries for other children of Mary or Mary Ann Berry: Henry Augustus 15 Jul 1832, Emma 16 Feb 1834, and George Frederick 23 Oct 1836. She was also shown burial entries for Henry who died on the 17th Oct 1832 ("an infant"), and Emma who died on the 31st July age 2.
Henry Augustus Berry's baptism in the Archdeacon's Transcripts on FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-14263-5709-8?cc=1823613)

Mary was shown Mary's baptism entry from 1808, the daughter of Christopher and Mary Berry. She was shown "Berry's Norwich Directory" from 1810 which was printed by C Berry jun, Dove Lane, and included a listing for Christopher Berry bookseller and printer, Dove Lane. Mary visited the John Jarrold Printing Museum to find out about the Berry family, and was shown an announcement of Christopher Berry's bankruptcy in the Norfolk Chronicle of 16 Nov 1811, and an advertisement from 1812 for the auction of the Berry family's belongings. Apparently Christopher was allowed to keep a printing press and a set of type, and there was an item in the Norfolk Chronicle in Jun 1813 saying that he had published an ode to the "decayed members of the bankruptcy club."

Mary was shown baptism entries for the rest of Christopher and Mary's children, all younger than Mary jr: Christopher 1809, Maria, John, Louisa, Augustus, Sarah, Edward, and Eliza. She was then shown a Poor Law Commission record from around 1819 saying that the wife of Christopher Berry the younger and six of her children (the six youngest) were to be received into the workhouse, and the said Christopher Berry was to pay 20 shillings a week for their maintenance, or risk being arrested. A local historian suggested to Mary that a likely explanation for this was that Christopher had left his wife.

Mary was shown burial register entries from the parish of St Giles for three of the children: Eliza who died when only a few months old, Augustus age 9 and Edward age 6, all with abode given as St Andrew's Workhouse.

Mary then looked at census entries for Mary jr. In 1851 and 1861 she was listed as a Stay Maker, and Edward was listed in 1861 as apprentice to a printer, with George's occupation shown as carpenter. The 1854 trade directory had a listing for Berry, Mary, Pottergate St, in the Stay Makers section. Her death certificate from 1870 showed son Edward as the informant.

Mary and her brothers visited the grave of their grandfather Canon E A Berry and his wife Annie Rosa.

[kiterunner]

I much preferred this one to last week's. They fitted in so much family history! But I thought the surname Houghton was pronounced Horton, not Howton as they pronounced it all the way through this episode? My other quibble is that they made a lot out of the fact that Mary doesn't seem to have named a son after her father Christopher, but (a) it was quite usual for illegitimate boys to be named after their own fathers, and (b) she didn't name her daughter after her mother, so does that prove that she had fallen out with her mother as well as with her father? I don't think it means anything much.

I would like to know whether they looked through the poor law records to see whether there was any information in there about the father(s) of Mary's children, as the parish would have wanted to know who should be paying for them if she was receiving parish relief.

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

I thought it was really interesting and a lot more genealogy based than previous episodes. The pronunciation of Houghton is the way I've hear it pronounced round here (Howton)

[kiterunner]

Here is Robert Houghton in 1851, a carpenter employing 4 men:
1851 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/NFKHO107_1814_1815-0090/5149225?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1851%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dROO T_CATEGORY%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26M SAV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-g%26gsfn%3drob*%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dh%253fughto n%26gsln_x%3dXO%26gskw%3dnorwich%26gskw_x%3d1%26cp xt%3d1%26catBucket%3dr%26uidh%3dvm5%26cp%3d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
and also a carpenter in 1841:
1841 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/NFKHO107_789_790-0484/8669578?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1841%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dROO T_CATEGORY%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26M SAV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-g%26gsfn%3drob*%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dh%253fughto n%26gsln_x%3dXO%26gskw%3dnorwich%26gskw_x%3d1%26cp xt%3d1%26catBucket%3dr%26uidh%3dvm5%26cp%3d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

[Olde Crone]

More interesting than I expected although I did groan with despair when we were shown how to make bread!

So, where was naughty Mary Berry in 1841? You don't suddenly start being a staymaker, you have to be apprenticed and that surely would have been while she was in the workhouse? So she would always have had a trade to fall back on. Also - I thought staymakers made the bones and steels that went into corsets and that corset makers made corsets!

Interesting but again, so many tantalising gaps. How did young Edward become a Canon? Was Mary really a staymaker or Something Else? (Ahem). Did Christopher Berry run off with someone else?

OC

[kiterunner]

FamilySearch has the baptism of an "Elizabeth Grisnam B Berry", daughter of a Mary Berry, 6 Oct 1844 at Norwich, but it doesn't say which parish or link to an image. The film number is bishop's transcripts. So I don't know whether she was another in the same family or not.

[kiterunner]

So, where was naughty Mary Berry in 1841?

1841 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/NFKHO107_789_790-0042/8654885?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1841%26so%3d2%26pcat%3d184 1UKI%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d 2%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26gsfn%3dmary%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dberry%26gsl n_x%3dXO%26gskw%3dnorwich%26gskw_x%3d1%26uidh%3dvm 5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

Near the bottom of the left hand page:
Ward & Fisher Yard, St Andrew Street, Norwich. Mary is 25 with son George 3. Her occupation is down as "Lodger".

[Guinevere]

Some genealogy at last!

[Lindsay]

Some genealogy at last!

So true! It's the first episode of this series I've watched all the way through.

I was interested in the contract to supply bread to the workhouse, as one of my g-gs had a similar contract to supply bread to the local jail.

But so many unanswered questions!

[Lindsay]

But I thought the surname Houghton was pronounced Horton, not Howton as they pronounced it all the way through this episode?

I used to work with someone called Houghton who pronounced it Howton. Probably one of those names that can be pronounced either way.

[kiterunner]

FamilySearch has the burial of a Christopher Berry 28 Jun 1831 at Middleton, Norwich, which it says comes from film number 1470813, bishop's transcripts. But looking at the 1831 bishop's transcripts for Middleton, I can't see him. I wonder if they have put the wrong parish name in. There is another Christopher Berry buried 6 Jan 1828 at St Helens, Norwich, age 79, but I think that would be Christopher Berry senior (Christopher Berry, printer of the street directory, was referred to as "Christopher Berry junior".)

[kiterunner]

And FreeREG has the burial of a Mary Berry 2 Mar 1837 at St Giles, Norwich, age 50, abode St Giles. Could be the wife / widow of Christopher jr?
This is the PR image on FamilySearch:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11566-39267-76?cc=1416598&wc=92BF-T3N:29923501,29369001,29416201

[kiterunner]

Berry's 1811 Norwich Directory is available to download free from Project Gutenberg:
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/32829?msg=welcome_stranger

[WendyPusey]

I'm originally from Norwich and it has always been pronounced Howton.

[kiterunner]

Thanks for the pronunciation info, everyone. The Houghtons in my OH's tree come from Lancashire, so I guess it is pronounced differently up there from how it's pronounced in Norfolk.

[kiterunner]

Here is the entry about the Berry family in the Norfolk Poor Law Guardians' minute books on FamilySearch:

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/9859/MM9.3.1_2FTH-267-12395-238006-82?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fse arch%2fdb.aspx%3fdbid%3d9859%26path%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnBrowsing#?imageId=MM9.3.1_2FTH-266-11682-228445-80

(oops, sorry, the links are via ancestry as I could get the images to load much faster on there.)

7 Sep 1819
Ordered that Mary the wife of Christopher Berry the younger and six of her Children be received into the workhouse and that the said Christopher Berry do pay 20 s weekly to Mr Stannard towards their Maintenance on the Saturday in each week to commence on Saturday next And if he fail therein Ordered that the Mayor be requested to issue his warrant for the apprehension of the said Christopher Berry.

[kiterunner]

And here is another entry, which they didn't show on the programme:

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/9859/MM9.3.1_2FTH-267-12395-238006-82?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fse arch%2fdb.aspx%3fdbid%3d9859%26path%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnBrowsing#?imageId=MM9.3.1_2FTH-266-11682-217287-59

5th Oct 1819 Ordered that the weekly allowance to be paid by Christopher Berry for the Maintenance of his wife and children now in the Workhouse be reduced from 20 s to 15 s per week until the next Court.

[kiterunner]

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/9859/MM9.3.1_2FTH-267-12395-238006-82?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fse arch%2fdb.aspx%3fdbid%3d9859%26path%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnBrowsing#?imageId=MM9.3.1_2FTH-266-11682-219374-87And in the minutes for 4 Jan 1820, there is an order for them to pay Christopher Berry £2 for printing costs!

On the next page:
4 Jan 1820
Ordered that the allowance to be made by Christopher Berry for the maintenance of his wife and Family be reduced to twelve shillings per week until the January Court.

(Worth mentioning here that the date of burial for Eliza Berry was 7th Jan 1820.)

On the 4th Apr 1820 they pay Christopher Berry £6 for printing.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/9859/MM9.3.1_2FTH-267-12395-238006-82?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fse arch%2fdb.aspx%3fdbid%3d9859%26path%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnBrowsing#?imageId=MM9.3.1_2FTH-266-11682-221546-76

[kiterunner]

Had to switch back to FamilySearch as the images stopped loading on ancestry.

3 Oct 1820 Christopher Berry was paid £4 5s 6d for printing:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11682-226750-66?cc=1824706&wc=M6V6-WTG:161088401,162613301,161247401,161095001

Having reached the end of 1820, I shall take a break from browsing now! I was up to image no 2597 if anyone else fancies looking through for mentions of the Berry family...

[kiterunner]

Hmm, looking at the London Gazette, Christopher Berry the elder and Robert Rochester, booksellers, stationers etc, went bankrupt in May 1809, and then there is this from 21 Oct 1809:

The Creditors who have proved their Debts under a Commission of Bankrupt awarded and issued against Christopher Berry the Elder, and Robert Rochester, of the City of Norwich, Booksellers, Stationers, Dealers, Chapmen, and Partners, are desired either by themselves or by their Atnies, lawfully authorized for that Purpose, to meet the Assigness of the said Bankrupt's Estate and Effects, at the King's Head Inn, in the said City of Norwich, on Saturday the 4th of November next, at the Hour of Twelve of the Clock at Noon, for the Purpose of assenting to or dissenting from the commencing and prosecuting a Suit in Equity and to set aside certain Indentures of Lease and Release, bearing Date respectively the 23d and 24th Days of February last, made by the said Christopher Berry the Elder, to his Nephew Christopher Berry the Younger, of his Share and Interest of and in certain Freehold Premises, situate and being in the Parish of Saint John of Madder-Market, in the said City; and also as to the commencing, prosecuting, defending, or soliciting any other Suit or Suits, Action or Actions, for the Recovery or other the Estate and Effects of the said Bankrupts...

There look to be quite a few bankruptcy notices for both Christophers on there; I will look through them properly later.

[kiterunner]

16 Jan 1810 there is a notice saying that the partnership of Christopher Berry and John Berry is dissolved and the business taken over by the said Christopher Berry, but it doesn't say which one, elder or younger. I would think younger since elder went bankrupt the previous May. Then 12 Nov 1811 Christopher Berry the younger is declared bankrupt.
Then in Oct 1817 the partnership between Christopher Berry and William Cooke Stafford is dissolved, but again, it doesn't say which Christopher.

[geniebug]

Kate, I've left two msgs to say that I am not receiving emails to tell me when people have messaged on Anzacs - even tho I have checked the relevant box, and have done so for some years - can you get someone to find out what is going on please? :)

[kiterunner]

Did you receive my replies to your emails, Jood?

[anne fraser]

OC there is no evidence Mary was ever in the workhouse. I think she was probably old enough to work when her mother and siblings were taken in.

When I was younger stays were a general word for corsets so she may have made them for private clients. I know they said she became housekeeper for her father but I don't think there was any evidence presented for this. I did briefly wonder about incest but we don't really know what happened to her before 1841.

I did enjoy the programe as well.

[marquette]

I have just read back through this - my ancestral Houghtons were from Bedfordshire/Northamptonshire and I don't know how it was pronounced, but I have seen it written as HOO-TON in Australian records.

OH's ancestral Berrys came form the Suffolk/Norfolk border area, but I would have to see if there's any chance of a link.

[geniebug]

I was originally from Perth - and Houghton's wines was pronounced HORTON'S

oOOPS Kate, just saw your msg No 24 - I think everything is ok now - it is still sending them to junk file, but that should surely stop soon.