Ann grimshaw birth approx 1854/55 ormskirk

[Anglosaxon]

Hi , Can anyone help , I am trying to find a definite date or place for my great grandma 4x times Ann Grimshaw formerly Robinson . I know she married William Grimshaw in 1873 at St. Paul's skelmersdale . She is supposed to be 19 then . but her husband is 20 on the marriage certificate . he was born in Glasgow in 1854 , that's why she must have been born around 1855 in ormskirk . I can follow the thread after here , but still trying to establish family . Her farther was james Robinson a tailor by trade I have looked on the parish clerks for skelmersdale , ormskirk and that area but still haven't found her . Problem is there are lots of Robinson around the lathom area near ormskirk . so I am stuck now Any would be gratefully recieved . Thanks qwackers

[kiterunner]

I assume this is the family in 1881:
1881 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/LANRG11_3756_3760-0287/9539765?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3duki1881%26rank %3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dann*%26gsln%3dgrimsha*%26dbOnly%3d_F000 27B9%257c_F00027B9_x%252c_F0003039%257c_F0003039_x %252c_F000303A%257c_F000303A_x%252c_83004006%257c_ 83004006_x%252c_F00032DB%257c_F00032DB_x%26uidh%3d vm5%26mssng0%3dwil*%26mssng0_x%3d1%26gl%3d%26gst%3 d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d10%26fsk%3dBEDfMzIIgAAdlACOqRM-61-&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
Court 2, Sandy Lane, Skelmersdale, Lancashire
William Grimshaw Head Mar 27 Coal Miner Scotland
Anne Do Wife Mar 26 Lancashire Ormskirk
Annie Do Daug 4 Scholar Do Wigan
Mary S Do Daug 2 mo do Skelmersdale
Richard Robinson Boarder Unm 18 Coal Miner Do Ormskirk

I bet Richard is Anne's brother.

[kiterunner]

So this looks like the Robinson family in 1871, but no Ann:
1871 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/LANRG10_3879_3880-0250/16327627?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3duki1871%26rank %3d1%26new%3d1%26so%3d3%26MSAV%3d2%26pcat%3d35%26g ss%3dms_r_db%26gsfn%3dric*%26gsln%3drob*son%26msbd y%3d1863%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msfng0%3dja*s%26msfng0_x% 3d1%26gskw%3dlanc*%26gskw_x%3d1%26dbOnly%3d_F00038 88%257c_F0003888_x%26dbOnly%3d_F00027B9%257c_F0002 7B9_x%26dbOnly%3d_F0003039%257c_F0003039_x%26dbOnl y%3d_F000303A%257c_F000303A_x%26dbOnly%3d_F00032DB %257c_F00032DB_x%26dbOnly%3d_83004006%257c_8300400 6_x%26dbOnly%3d_F000303D%257c_F000303D_x%26dbOnly% 3d_F00032F2%257c_F00032F2_x%26dbOnly%3d_F00032F6%2 57c_F00032F6_x%26uidh%3dvm5%26msbdp%3d2&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
No 7 House, Aughton St, Ormskirk, Lancashire
James Robinson Head Mar 46 Tailor Lancashire Bolton
Jane Robinson Wife Mar 46 " Ormskirk
James Robinson Son Unmar 18 Blacksmith " "
Nancy Robinson Daughter " 16 Domestic Servant " "
John Robinson Son 13 Scholar " "
Richard Robinson Son 8 Do " "

Oops, Nancy is Ann, of course!

[kiterunner]

This is the Robinson family in 1861:
1861 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/LANRG9_2765_2766-0064/23348678?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3duki1861%26rank %3d1%26new%3d1%26so%3d3%26MSAV%3d2%26pcat%3d35%26g ss%3dms_r_db%26gsfn%3dja*s%26gsln%3drob*s*n%26msrp n__ftp%3dOrmskirk%252c%2bLancashire%252c%2bEngland %26msrpn%3d84942%26msrpn_PInfo%3d8-%257c0%257c0%257c3257%257c3251%257c0%257c0%257c0%2 57c5271%257c84942%257c0%257c%26msrpn_x%3dXO%26msrp n__ftp_x%3d1%26dbOnly%3d_F0007989%257c_F0007989_x% 26dbOnly%3d_F0005DFD%257c_F0005DFD_x%26dbOnly%3d_8 3004006%257c_83004006_x%26dbOnly%3d_F000597C%257c_ F000597C_x%26dbOnly%3d_F0007B88%257c_F0007B88_x%26 dbOnly%3d_F0007B87%257c_F0007B87_x%26dbOnly%3d_F00 05DFC%257c_F0005DFC_x%26dbOnly%3d_F0005DFB%257c_F0 005DFB_x%26uidh%3dvm5%26mssng0%3djane%26mssng0_x%3 d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
Church Street, Ormskirk, Lancashire
James Robinson Head Mar 36 Tailor Lancashire Bolton
Jane Do Wife Mar 36 Do Ormskirk
James Do Son 8 Scholar Do Do
Nancy Do Daur 7 Scholar Do Do
John Do Son 2 Do Do

So Ann / Nancy's birth should be about 1853-4. I'll have a look.

[kiterunner]

It looks as though her birth was registered as Nancy, since these Robinson birth regs from Lancashire BMD seem to fit with the children in the family, all Ormskirk sub-district, all with mother's maiden name Hale:
James 1851
Nancy 1853
William 1856
John 1858
Sarah 1861
Richard 1862.

And just to confirm this is the right family, James Robinson married Jane Hale at Our Lady & St Nicholas & St Anne, Liverpool, in 1850 (also from Lancashire BMD).

These are the details on Lancashire BMD for Nancy's birth certificate:

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1853
Surname ROBINSON
Forename(s) Nancy
Sub-District Ormskirk
Registers At Preston
Mother's Maiden Name Hale

and this must be the corresponding entry in the GRO index:
Births Apr-Jun 1853
ROBINSON Nancy Ormskirk vol 8b page 486
Reference OK/7/41

[kiterunner]

Also, Lancashire Online Parish Clerks website has transcribed her baptism:
Baptism: 21 Aug 1853 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
Nancy Robinson - [Child] of James Robinson & Jane
Abode: Ormskirk
Occupation: Tailor

[Anglosaxon]

Thank you soooooooo much , How wonderful are you never thought ann could not be her name . At last I've found the link to my past . I will be toasting your health . best wishes

[Anglosaxon]

Hi I am trying now to trace a lady who. I think was my great grandma 4xtimes in the past I have searched for a ellen callen in Scotland father mother of William grimshaw born in Glasgow in 1854 . Don't want to get too excited , but I have just found a ellen callen born in Ayrshire in 1826 . Could this be my relative . how do I check . if. I get William or James grimshaws birth certificate . Will it say how old she was at the time of Williams birth ? Any help would be gratefully accepted

[kiterunner]

Reading back through your old William Grimshaw thread, Ellen's birthplace is shown as Wigan Lancashire on the 1861 census. And the William Grimshaw (sr) / Ellen Calland marriage was 1844 at All Saints, Wigan. It also says on that old thread that Lancs Online Parish Clerks had transcribed that marriage and it was 11 Mar 1844 with Ellen age 21, spinster, of Ince, father William Calland, collier.

On the 1871 census Ellen's birthplace is also Wigan Lancashire. So I'm not sure why you're looking for her birth in Scotland?

Anyway, to answer your question, no, the child's birth cert won't show the parents' ages. But the marriages and the census entries suggest she was born about 1823. I'll have a quick look for a baptism before Dr Who starts...

[kiterunner]

Ah, this
1841 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/LANHO107_521_522-0481/5165691?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1841%26so%3d2%26pcat%3d184 1UKI%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d 2%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26gsfn%3del*n*%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dc*ll*n*%26 gsln_x%3dXO%26msbdy%3d1826%26msbdy_x%3d1%26gskw%3d wigan%26gskw_x%3d1%26uidh%3dvm5%26msbdp%3d5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
must be the Calland family in 1841:
Britania Bridge, Ince, Wigan, Lancashire
William Calland 40 Coal Miner Y
Cicely Calland 35 Labourer Y
Ellen Do 15 Coal Miner Y
Mary Do 15 Do Do Y
Elizabeth Do 13 Do Drawer Y
Richard Do 10 Y
Thomas Do 6 Y
Margaret Do 2 Y

Ages were rounded down to a multiple of 5 on this census, so it doesn't mean that Ellen and Mary were twins.

I think the name Cicely is used later on in the Grimshaw family, isn't it? So they look like the right family. William Calland married Cicely Walker 31 Aug 1823 Warrington, but I can't see Ellen's baptism just at the moment. Back later...

[kiterunner]

Hmm, there are two baptisms on ancestry, it says they are Bishop's Transcripts but they look like parish registers.
Both at Wigan:
17 Apr 1824 Ellen dau of William & Cicely Callen of Scholes, miner
17 Jul 1825 Ellen dau of William & Cicely Collen of Princes St, miner.

Probably the first Ellen died young. I'll look some more later but have to go and eat now.

[Anglosaxon]

Hi , William grimshaws mother is ellen callen or Helen callen , I did initially think I had got it wrong and that the wigan marriage between William grimshaw and ellen calland was the proper persons but on reflections . I think there is a big connection still in Scotland even when I was a youngster we would go up visiting in Lanarkshire and around the area . Maybe I should try and get ellen callens birth certificate if I can get the gro number in Scotland . I suppose it's worth a punt . but thanks for all your generous help . kind regards

[kiterunner]

I don't see how the Ellen Callan born in Scotland can be the right one, since the censuses say that your Ellen was born in Wigan?
I couldn't find a burial for the one baptised in 1824, but I'm sure the one baptised 1825 in Wigan will be yours.

[Shona]

Hi I am trying now to trace a lady who. I think was my great grandma 4xtimes in the past I have searched for a ellen callen in Scotland father mother of William grimshaw born in Glasgow in 1854 . Don't want to get too excited , but I have just found a ellen callen born in Ayrshire in 1826 . Could this be my relative . how do I check . if. I get William or James grimshaws birth certificate . Will it say how old she was at the time of Williams birth ? Any help would be gratefully accepted

The only Ellen Callen I can find who was born in Ayrshire in 1826 lived on the island of Arran. However, allen was her married name.

The evidence suggests your lass was born in Wigan.

The Grimshaws did go to Scotland, however, and William was born there before the family returned to England. This could easily explain the connection with Scotland.