Help on word from will, please.

[ElizabethHerts]

I have finished transcribing the will of Nicholas Ayling of 1678 except for one niggly word, over which I have a complete mental block.

Could someone look at it for me please?
It is the word that has been omitted on both pages of the will and is in the margin.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/5111/40611_310571-00511/983696?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dCanturburyPrerogativeCourt%26 rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26so%3d3%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%2 6gss%3dms_db%26gsfn%3dNicholas%26gsfn_x%3dNP%26gsl n%3dAyling%26uidh%3dxt1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=40611_31057 1-00511

[Phoenix]

It looks - on the second page - like a word describing his son. And I am baffled. As it looks as if the scribe was!

[ElizabethHerts]

Phoenix, I've been looking at this all afternoon on and off and it's driving me nuts.
Thanks for looking.

[Phoenix]

The will itself is perfectly legible. It looks like

ori squiggle sic

which doesn't make sense.

[ElizabethHerts]

That's exactly what I saw, Phoenix, but it means nothing to me!

[kiterunner]

Sorry but I'm waiting to get my new ancestry sub so I can't view the image at the moment. Would you be able to post up a screenshot of the word, please, Elizabeth?

[Phoenix]

Ah, do you suppose it is Latin for illegible, or word omitted? There is the identical word in the margin of another will.

[ElizabethHerts]

Do you think it's a Latin phrase, Phoenix?

orior, -iri, -tus - to spring, descend
sic - thus

On first page this doesn't make sense:

To have and to hold to him my said Sonne Thomas Ayling and his heires for ever Paying
out of the ? unto my daughter Margaret Sixty pounds at her Adge of one and
Twenty yeares as it is above written


Second page:
To have and to hold the one moiety of all and singular
the said Foure Closes Mead and Lane to my said Sonn John Ayling and his
…
Heirs And the other Moiety thereof unto my said ? said ? ? sonne Richard Ayling and
his heirs for ever.

[ElizabethHerts]

Deleted

I'll delete them when you have looked at them, Kate.

Phoenix, where did you see it again?
I agree, Latin seems probable.

[Phoenix]

Look at page 511. It is definitely a standard phrase and begins Ori (the r is differently formed there)

[ElizabethHerts]

Thanks, Phoenix. So it is just "my said sonne" and the part we can't read is some sort of comment?

[Phoenix]

From the sense of it, he would have been describing Richard as his said youngest son.

In theory, the originals of these are at Kew, presumably in bundles of about a hundred per box, and also prsumably filed by date of probate. I was told this by a lecturer recently, but know of no one who has actually investigated.

[ElizabethHerts]

Phoenix, I bet they'd have a job finding it! I think they should let us loose in there.

[ElizabethHerts]

By the way, my only other puzzle is the word at the start of the third line on the second page.

[Phoenix]

I think that is Interess ie interest. Looking again...

[ElizabethHerts]

Thanks.

[Phoenix]

There is the phrase "estate, right title and interest" on the previous page. Certainly the beginning looks the same.

[ElizabethHerts]

Thanks, Phoenix, you are correct.

I'm off to bed now, so many thanks for your help.

[kiterunner]

Sorry, Elizabeth, it's too small for me to make it out. I thought you would just "snip" the actual word and post it up.

[Janet]

Kite, I pm'd you the full-size images. You can go into Photobucket and click on the little magnifying glass repeatedly until they appear full size, but then an ad pops up that makes itself obnoxiously difficult to get rid of so don't even go there. I don't care if you want to post those links up here, but I didn't for fear I might not be around when Elizabeth wants to take them down.

[Phoenix]

My medieval word list gives Originale (not quite sure what the appropriate ending is) as from the original document. So perhaps it means "I have copied it faithfully, but not convinced that this is the true sense"

[ElizabethHerts]

Sorry, Elizabeth, it's too small for me to make it out. I thought you would just "snip" the actual word and post it up.

Sorry, Kate. I'll try again later.

[ElizabethHerts]

Thanks, Phoenix.

[kiterunner]

Thanks, Janet!

Yes, I think it is Ori & Sic or something similar, meaning "this is how it appeared in the original". In the same way that we would put "sic" nowadays.

[ElizabethHerts]

Thanks, Janet!

Yes, I think it is Ori & Sic or something similar, meaning "this is how it appeared in the original". In the same way that we would put "sic" nowadays.

Thanks, Kate. Thanks also to Janet for sending it to Kate.