Census information

[JBee]

I have a Margaret Hope on the 1841 census in Berwick on Tweed,
she's a widow with her daughter Barbara aged 11 both born in county.

However below Barbara is a Thomas Hope age 17 born Scotland.

As Thomas is below Barbara although older does that mean that Thomas isn't the brother of Barbara but another relative?

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 844; Book: 1; Civil Parish: Berwick Upon Tweed; County: Northumberland; Enumeration District: 2; Folio: 36; Page: 28; Line: 22; GSU roll: 438897.

[kiterunner]

The instructions to enumerators for the 1841 census just said to "Set down one after the other those who have the same surname, beginning with the heads of the family, and put no others between them." It doesn't say that the children should be in order of age.
http://www.hunimex.com/warwick/census/1841_enum_inst.html

I have seen quite a few households where all the boys were listed first, then all the girls. So I don't think that we can infer anything for sure from the order in which the children are listed.

[JBee]

Thanks Kate

So still don't know if he was a brother or another relative.

[merleyone]

There is a baptism on Family Search for Barbara Hope at Berwick on 25/3/1830, parents John Hope & Margaret.
Another baptism at Berwick on 8/5/1831 is for Thomas John Hope, parents John Hope & Margaret, most probably the same couple.
If it is the same couple, and this Thomas was actually the 17yr old in the 1841 census, he would have been baptised belatedly but one wonders why then he was not baptised with Barbara.
On balance it must be more likely that the Thomas Hope, 17, in the 1841 census was another child but as he was clearly alive at the time of the baptism in 1831 it is less likely that there were two sons named Thomas of the same parents at the same time.

Having said all that, I have the two youngest sons in my Berwick family both named John and living well into their 70s which caused me some confusion until I found that the youngest had two forenames, John Stapleton, after the successful parliamentary candidate in 1852.
He was consequently known in the family as Stapey but always showed himself as John or John S on formal documents and in the censuses; odd family!

merleyone

[JBee]

Thanks Merleyone

I don't think Thomas John Hope born 8 May 1831 is their son as he was at Nesbitts Lane and father's occupation was a blacksmith. Also, there was a John Hope who died aged 1 month in 1820 also at Nesbitts Lane.

I think blacksmiths have to have served apprenticeships so can't see a pitman becoming a blacksmith in 12 months.

There were at least two other families of John Hope and a Margaret in Berwick. John Hope and Margaret Witt/Watt and John Hope and Margaret Donaldson which does add to the confusion.