Fed up with going round in circles - new eyes needed

[Merry]

Samuel Alexander Montgomery married Mary Elizabeth Annie Rogers in 1883 in Southampton. They had five children and by the date of the 1911 census they had three still living (all b Southampton).

The three living were:

Alice Jane b 1886
John b 1891
May Shelagh D b 1900

I have them all on the various censuses, but then get stuck! Can anyone work out if they married or died! lol

[Merry]

I think I lied about Alice! She appears twice in 1901 and not in 1911, but she should still be alive!

[ElizabethHerts]

I note that May Shelagh is May Shelagh D

Could this be her marriage, with the final letter wrong?? I can't find any others.

Year Of Marriage 1932
First name(s) MAY S E
Last name MONTGOMERY
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1932
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ MAY S E MONTGOMERY married
WILLIAM J CLARK
Spouse's last name CLARK
District BRENTFORD
County Middlesex
Country England
Volume 3A
Page 446
Record set England & Wales marriages 1837-2008
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Record collection Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

[kiterunner]

Could this be Alice in 1911? Even if not, I do love the way that they have filled in the census info and I wish everyone had done the same!

1911 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_06013_0631_03/42914757?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3d1911England%26 rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dmon*g*m*y%26gsln_x%3dXO%2 6gskw%3dso*t*n%26gskw_x%3d1%26dbOnly%3d_F0006301%2 57c_F0006301_x%252c_F0005DFC%257c_F0005DFC_x%252c_ F0006866%257c_F0006866_x%252c_F0006867%257c_F00068 67_x%252c_F0005DFD%257c_F0005DFD_x%252c_F0006300%2 57c_F0006300_x%252c_F800686D%257c_F800686D_x%252c_ 83004005%257c_83004005_x%252c_F000686E%257c_F00068 6E_x%252c_83004006%257c_83004006_x%26uidh%3dvm5%26 gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d20%26fsk%3dBEFTMzM IgAAJMAE9wak-61-&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

[kiterunner]

I note that May Shelagh is May Shelagh D

Could this be her marriage, with the final letter wrong?? I can't find any others.

Year Of Marriage 1932
First name(s) MAY S E
Last name MONTGOMERY
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1932
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ MAY S E MONTGOMERY married
WILLIAM J CLARK
Spouse's last name CLARK
District BRENTFORD
County Middlesex
Country England
Volume 3A
Page 446
Record set England & Wales marriages 1837-2008
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Record collection Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

It is a D on the actual image of the index.

[ElizabethHerts]

So it is, Kate. (Trying to eat my lunch and research at same time!)

[kiterunner]

Here she is with husband in 1933 (London e rolls):
London e rolls 1933 (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1795/40020_189959-00142/70853718?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3dLMAelectoralre g%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dmay%2bshe*%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dclark %26gsln_x%3dXO%26dbOnly%3d_F0005A49%257c_F0005A49_ x%26uidh%3dvm5%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d1 0%26fsk%3dBED7GpgIgAAHAwfDSjE-61-&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
69 Inwood Road, Heston and Isleworth
Burton, Alice Jane
Burton, Edward
Clark, May Shelagh Daisy
Clark, William John

Then she is Shelagh May Daisy Clark on the next few. I bet Alice Jane Burton is her sister!

[kiterunner]

Alice Jane Burton and Edward Burton are at that address as far back as 1922, but I can't see their marriage at the moment (assuming she is the right Alice!)

[kiterunner]

Hmm, there is an Alice Jane Burton death Jul-Sep 1979 Canterbury, dob 9 May 1885. Could be a year out? Do you have your Alice's exact date of birth, Merry?

[Merry]

Hello!! I've been out supposedly organising my mum's 90th b'day, my son's 15th b'day and the non-response of anyone who is having anything to do with our new kitchen - all three of these events are happening at the same time - next week, just like London busses!!

Now, back to this thread......

No, I don't currently have the dob for Alice Jane, but that Burton couple look very promising.

I was put off the Brentford Clark marriage because I was too dumb to look at the image and found something else (don't remember what now :o) that made me think May S E was someone else.

I'll see if I can find anything else.........


Thanks very much!

[Merry]

Here she is with husband in 1933 (London e rolls):
London e rolls 1933 (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1795/40020_189959-00142/70853718?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3dLMAelectoralre g%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dmay%2bshe*%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dclark %26gsln_x%3dXO%26dbOnly%3d_F0005A49%257c_F0005A49_ x%26uidh%3dvm5%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d1 0%26fsk%3dBED7GpgIgAAHAwfDSjE-61-&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
69 Inwood Road, Heston and Isleworth
Burton, Alice Jane
Burton, Edward
Clark, May Shelagh Daisy
Clark, William John

Then she is Shelagh May Daisy Clark on the next few. I bet Alice Jane Burton is her sister!

I wanted that too, but she can't be as they are here (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_06820_0243_03/39525028?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3d1911england%26so%3d2%26pcat%3 dROOT_CATEGORY%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1 %26MSAV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-g%26gsfn%3dEDWARD%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dBURTON%26 gsln_x%3dNP%26gskw%3dBRENTFORD%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt %3d1%26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3d672%26cp%3d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults), together at the same addy in 1911 and they've been married too long, Alice is too old and from the wrong town :(

[Merry]

This is Edward Burton and his wife:


Marriages Jun 1898
Burton Edward Portsea 2b 1007
Miller James Portsea 2b 1007
POWELL Elizabeth Portsea I. 2b 1007
Wilson Alice Jane Portsea 2b 1007

[kiterunner]

Oh, that's a shame. I wonder if Alice Jane Wilson was a relative?

[Merry]

Nothing pointing to that yet, though I wouldn't be surprised if the marriage to Edward Burton was not Alice's first marriage.................

[Merry]

I've made another one step forward, two back with Alice Jane Montgomery.

In 1891 she is listed with her father, Samuel on the census and also with her uncle and aunt John W Rogers and his wife Alice Rogers. Other than proving John W was the (much older) brother of Alice Montgomery's mother I'd not investigated the Rogers very much.

John W Rogers and wife Alice appear again in 1901 and their niece Alice Montgomery is still living with them at 33 Bugle St in Southampton.

Aunt Alice Rogers and uncle John W both died at the start of 1911. Both probates were granted to Alice Ross Montgomery, spinster.

So, who the £$"!*" is she?? lol Is she my Alice?

Alice Ross Montgomery appears in 1911 in Southampton and is the same age and birthplace as my Alice, so I thought this was a good lead. But I can't find her after this. She is not the Alice H Montgomery marrying in 1911 as she is the dau of Peter and Sophia Montgomery.

Help!!

[kiterunner]

I thought that Alice Ross Montgomery might be your Alice - see post #4.

Alice Ross Montgomery appears on the London e rolls for 1926-1928 at 5 Cromwell Road, Kensington, (the same road where the family in "Ballet Shoes" lived!) with loads of other people but no Montgomerys.

[Merry]

I forgot to read back!

I'm having terrible problems with ancestry at the moment - it keeps telling me there are, say, ten matches for the 1911 census, but when I click the link there are only a couple. It took me about 20 searches to pick up the census records for Alice even though I had looked at them half an hour earlier! For Alice Ross Montgomery I got nothing for the erolls, but now I've got three matches! (did you get three matches too?)

[Merry]

Enid Lachlan and her mother Mabel (living at the same addy in Kensington) were from Southampton.

[kiterunner]

For Alice Ross Montgomery I got nothing for the erolls, but now I've got three matches! (did you get three matches too?)

Yes.

[Merry]

Imagining she might have inherited some money from the Rogers, I've been looking at people named Alice Ross X who left a will, but that hasn't helped yet!

[kiterunner]

There is an Alice J Montgomery who marries a Samuel Brown Apr-Jun 1928 Marylebone. And an Alice Jane Brown death Jul-Sep 1969, dob 13 Jun 1886 but in Staincliffe district (Yorkshire). Probably two red herrings, though, but it's hard to get anywhere with the name Brown. Also an Alice J Montgomery who marries a Kenneth D Christian Jan-Mar 1931 in St George Hanover Square district, but I can't see what happened to her (well, really I can't see what happened to the one who married Samuel Brown either, but that's just because there are too many possibles!).

Also ancestry keeps giving me results lists showing 41 to -1 of -1 (for example) so I am not getting very far with anything!

[Merry]

Those are the same two I've been looking at! (same conclusions!)

[kiterunner]

This could be the same Kenneth D Christian on a passenger list arriving at Liverpool from Singapore in Dec 1949, age 50, rubber planter, going to live in Scunthorpe, Lincs. Country of last permanent residence Malaya. Middle name is Dear. He dies in Lincoln Oct-Dec 1966, age 67. But the passenger list doesn't give his marital status.
1949 passenger list (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1518/30807_A001248-00248/24024373?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3dBT26%26rank%3d 1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dchristian%26gsln_x%3dXO%2 6msbdy%3d1899%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msady%3d1956%26msady _x%3d1%26dbOnly%3d_F0005868%257c_F0005868_x%252c_F 00061E6%257c_F00061E6_x%252c_F00061E7%257c_F00061E 7_x%26uidh%3dvm5%26msbdp%3d5%26msadp%3d10%26gl%3d% 26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d40%26fsk%3dBEEGNq0IgAAF7 gApKas-61-&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

Still, if it is the same person who married in 1931, there should be a passenger list showing him leaving the country between then and 1949, maybe with his wife on it. Off to search...all I found so far is him leaving for Singapore in 1923 but that one is crossed out so maybe he didn't actually travel then.

[kiterunner]

And I presume this is a relative, perhaps his son:
Outward Passenger List 1948 - Ian Deare Christian (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2997/41039_b001626-00622/143849449?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co. uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fMS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3dUKOutwardPasse ngerLists%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26so%3d3%26MSAV%3d2 %26gss%3dms_r_db%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dchristian% 26gsln_x%3dXO%26msedy%3d1940%26msedy_x%3d1%26gskw% 3dsingapore%26gskw_x%3d1%26dbOnly%3d_F0005959%257c _F0005959_x%26dbOnly%3d_F00061E6%257c_F00061E6_x%2 6dbOnly%3d_F8007054%257c_F8007054_x%26uidh%3dvm5%2 6msbdp%3d5%26msedp%3d10%26_83004003-n_xcl%3df&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
Find a Grave (http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=49414292)

But still no clue whether the Alice who married Kenneth is your Alice! She would be quite a few years older than him (if he is the same Kenneth who is on the passenger list), but that doesn't necessarily rule it out.

[Merry]

No, true.

There's a record for Kenneth travelling out in 1923 but nothing to say he came back before the marriage.

[Mary from Italy]

Kenneth D Christian, planter, of Sumatra married Mora Grace Rattray in Penang in 1924.

http://eresources.nlb.gov.sg/newspapers/Digitised/Article/straitstimes19241205.2.41.aspx

[kiterunner]

So either he is not the Kenneth who married Alice, or he was divorced or widowed by 1931.

[Mary from Italy]

Ian Dere Christian was born in Bengal in 1926 according to FMP, but the transcription doesn't give parents' names, and there's no image.