Am I jumping to conclusions?

[vita]

Still relatively inexperienced, could I please have some advice on this one?

I know nothing at all about g/g/grandmother Ann Headland, nee Williams,

except that she died aged 28 in 1838 after the birth of her third child.

Her maiden name made me think it would be impossible to establish anything

at all about her, but I see an Ann Williams b 27th Aug 1810, baptised 21st Sep

1810,St George Hanover Square, London, father John & mother Susanna.

The area & date is right, & my Ann named her daughter Susanna - do you

think I might have found her or have I fallen into the "wishful thinking" trap?

[ElizabethHerts]

With London ancestors you have to bear in mind that they might have only recently come to the city and might have been born elsewhere, in a county far from London. I have several like this.

Perhaps post details about the family and we can take a look?

However, you might be correct!

[Merry]

I'm on my phone and can't look up anything at the moment, but there are lots of things you could look at to try and either eliminate the bap you have found or have a eureka moment. Will put up some ideas later if someone doesn't beat me to it!!!

[vita]

Thanks, both. Regarding the family, Elizabeth - if you mean Ann's husband Henry William,

I know for sure he was b Uxbridge ,Middx, 1808 before family moved to Islington area

some time before 1820.

And no hurry Merry - all suggestions gratefully received & in your own good time.

[ElizabethHerts]

So, this is the marriage:

Name: Henry William Headland
Spouse Name: Ann Williams
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 6 Feb 1833
Parish: Islington St Mary
Borough: Islington
Register Type: Parish Register

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-c&gsfn=Henry&gsln=Headland&msgdy=1830&cpxt=1&uidh=xt1&msgdp=10&cp=11&pcat=34&h=4211967&recoff=8+10&db=LMAmarriages&indiv=1&ml_rpos=5


One of the witnesses appears to be a Williams. Initial R or M??

[vita]

Yes that's them - I couldn't make out the initial either.

[kiterunner]

There is an Ann Williams, child, buried 2 Nov 1811 at St George Hanover Square, but no further information in the burial register to say whether it is the same Ann as the baptism or not.

It's such a common name that you would need to look for something to prove or disprove that the baptism is your Ann. Such as looking to see if either parent left a will with information about their daughter Ann, or looking for the baptisms of other children of the same parents, then look for marriages of those children and see whether Ann was a witness at any of them (especially after her own marriage as she will then be using her married name!) or if any of the witnesses' signatures matches that one with the uncertain initial.

[vita]

Thanks for that, Kiterunner.

[Merry]

It's such a common name that you would need to look for something to prove or disprove that the baptism is your Ann. Such as looking to see if either parent left a will with information about their daughter Ann, or looking for the baptisms of other children of the same parents, then look for marriages of those children and see whether Ann was a witness at any of them (especially after her own marriage as she will then be using her married name!) or if any of the witnesses' signatures matches that one with the uncertain initial.

This was the sort of thing I was going to say! :D

[vita]

Thanks Merry - "great minds" & all that.

[Shona]

Posting these bits and bobs for reference.

There is an Ann Williams - daughter of John and Susanna - was born on 27 August 1810 and baptised on 21 September, St George Hannover Square.

There is also an Eliza bpt 23 January 1807 at St George Hannover Square, child of John and Susanna Williams who may be a sibling of Ann's (above).

Ann Williams may or may not be the Ann Williams who married Henry William Headland on 6 February 1833 at Islington St Mary. Both were otp and signed their names. Witnesses were Juliana Headland and ? Williams.

Ann and Henry William Headland had three children:

1 Henry William Headland, born 4 November 1833, baptised on 1 December 1833, Islington St Mary, son of Henry William Headland, dyer, York Place, Upper Street, Islington, and Susanna.

Henry was named after his father.

2 Susanna Christiana, born 23 August 1836, Islington St Mary, daughter of Henry William
Headland, dyer, York Place, Upper Street, Islington, and Susanna.

Susanna Christiana's middle name is also Henry William Headland Snr's mother's name.

3 Thomas James Headland, bpt 22 Oct 1838, Islington St Mary, son of Henry William Headland, dyer, York Place, Upper Street, Islington, and Susanna.

Thomas first name is that same as Henry William Snr's father.

(The Headlands were Baptists and appear on non-conformist records.)

Ann Headland of Upper Street was buried on 28 October 1838 in Islington. Age 27. There is burial for a Thomas George Headland, infant, of Upper Street, on 23 November 1838, which must be the baby baptised Thomas James Headland.

In 1839, there was a notice in the London Gazette summoning William Henry Headland Snr to court.

'Henry William Headland' (sued as HW Headland) formerly of Frances Place, Holloway. then of No 8 Moon Street, Islington,, and late of No 2 York-place, Upper Street, Islington, Middlesex, dyer and scourer.

Henry William Headland Jnr and his sister Susanna Christiana Headland were baptised as adults on 2 March 1852. Parents, Henry William Headland and Ann. Abode: Seymour Street. Trade or profession: Dyer.

Susanna married Job Smith on 12 December 1853, St Mary Spital Church Square, Tower Hamlets.

I have also found a burial for a Susannah Headland, of King Street, Portmand Square, on 28 May 1834. She was 30. I wonder how she ties in with the Headland family.

[vita]

Thanks Shona - I do have most of what you've posted, but the possibility of my Ann

having a sister Eliza is new & may well lead somewhere.

Baby Thomas did indeed die around the same time as his mother,with two or three

different second names recorded.

Don't think Susanna of Portmand Square is one of mine - I haven't come across her &

Susanna, daughter of Henry William Snr, & Ann, & later wife of Job Smith, seems to be

the only one who was given the name.

[vita]

Ann's d/cert arrived yesterday with death informant named as E Walker, 25 Wellesley St,

City Road & I'm wondering if this might be sister Eliza. Could anyone please help me

crack this one, perhaps with by establishing if E. Walker was previously a Williams. I think

this might actually be a breakthrough!

[Merry]

I've not looked at anything else yet, but this appeared on fmp:


First name(s) Elizabeth
Last name Walker
Age at death 57
Birth year 1786
Burial year 1843
Burial date 09 Mar 1843
Parish St Botolph Without Aldersgate
Address Wellesley St, St Luke's
City London
County London
Guildhall reference GL Mss 3858/2-4
Source City of London Burials 1754-1855
Record set Greater London Burial Index
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Deaths & burials
Collections from Great Britain

[vita]

Thanks so much Merry - she seems a bit old to be Ann's sister doesn't she? Ann was b abt

1810.

[kiterunner]

Could she be a half-sister?

[Merry]

We don't know it's the same person. You don't know your E Walker is male or female! Was Wellesley Street where the death took place or was it an address given for the informant? (never seen that before)

[vita]

Just checked - Post#11 has possible sibling Eliza b 1807.

[kiterunner]

We don't know it's the same person. You don't know your E Walker is male or female! Was Wellesley Street where the death took place or was it an address given for the informant? (never seen that before)

I have certainly seen an address given for the informant before.

[vita]

We don't know it's the same person. You don't know your E Walker is male or female! Was Wellesley Street where the death took place or was it an address given for the informant? (never seen that before)

It was the initial E that got me carried away. I was going to ask for an 1841

look - up & then I thought "Hello - I seem to remember Ann might have had a

sister Eliza!" That would be too easy though, wouldn't it?

[vita]

Re informant addresses - all three that have arrived in the last two days have them.

[Merry]

I have certainly seen an address given for the informant before.

Perhaps that's because I've not got many death certs where the informant would have been from a different address and those that were, or may have been, were just from the same village so this wasn't written down? I do have 455 death certs!! :D

[vita]

Sorry Merry - I'm multitasking & didn't answer your question re where death took place.

Ann died at 2 York Place, Upper St. She was 27 & had consumption.

[vita]

Perhaps that's because I've not got many death certs where the informant would have been from a different address and those that were, or may have been, were just from the same village so this wasn't written down? I do have 455 death certs!! :D

I was a bit surprised to see it wasn't husband named as informant ,but perhaps

that wasn't unusual?

[Merry]

No, not particularly unusual. Maybe the husband was too busy/too upset etc etc to go to the register office? A lot of the certs I have for married women, the death was registered by one of their children, sometimes quite young. Other times by a neighbour/other relative who was present. I should do a survey of my certs, but I think a lot more were registered by women than men - maybe watching over the dying was "women's work" so it was more common for whoever was in charge of that to also register the death?

[vita]

No, not particularly unusual. Maybe the husband was too busy/too upset etc etc to go to the register office? A lot of the certs I have for married women, the death was registered by one of their children, sometimes quite young. Other times by a neighbour/other relative who was present. I should do a survey of my certs, but I think a lot more were registered by women than men - maybe watching over the dying was "women's work" so it was more common for whoever was in charge of that to also register the death?

I think it probably was women's work, Merry - though interestingly 2 x

g/grandfather's 2nd wife's death shows informant was George Dickens,(see

thread Caroline Easter Reffell)

[Olde Crone]

I also think that for working class families, the man could not take time off work to sit with his dying wife, nor to register the death as he wouldn't get paid. (I wonder if any employers paid wages for absence of the husband to attend the funeral?)

OC

[vita]

You have to consider their situation in those days, don't you?

Poor man - widowed twice, each time left with two young children, marries for the

third time at 51 & dies 6 weeks later of erysipelas, which looks pretty awful.