Could I have a second opinion please.

[Gert in Oz]

Eliza Hill b.1812 Burton upon Trent Staffordshire marries Thomas (HOWIS) Holmes b.1812 Birmingham Warwickshire 5 June 1836 Burton on Trent Staffordshire.

They move to Derby Derbyshire where they have 5 children of which Fanny b.1848 Derby is the youngest. Thomas dies before 1851.

Eliza is with her parents in Manchester in 1851 as Eliza Hill a widow, her daughter Ellen Holmes age 4 is also there as other relative. The other children are all scattered.

In 1851 Fanny Holmes b.1848 is listed as niece with a married Catherine Jones b. abt 1822 in Birmingham (They are living in Derby and I have no idea who this Catherine is ).

Fanny is also listed as niece in 1861, living with Sarah and Thomas Billings in Kings Norton Worcestershire (Sarah b.1817 Birmingham was the sister of Thomas b.1812)



Thomas Holmes b. 1812 Birmingham was the son of Thomas Holmes b. 1789 Burton upon Trent and Catherine Mottram.

Eliza Hill b.1812 Burton upon Trent was the daughter of Edward Hill and Sarah Holmes b. 1791 Burton upon Trent.

I think Thomas Holmes 1789 and Sarah Holmes 1791 could be brother and sister, children of John Holmes and Elizabeth HOWIS, which would make Thomas 1812 and Eliza 1812 cousins


My only doubt that I have this right, is the name HOWIS, the only time it is used is for Thomas`s marriage to Eliza.

Any opinion would be appreciated thanks

[Merry]

Isn't this likely to be Catherine?


Marriages Jun 1842

BAGNALL Maria Derby 19 395
BREWER Elizabeth Bakewell 19 395
COCKAYNE Mary Derby 19 395
COCKERTON Charles Derby 19 395
HALLSWORTH Thomas Derby 19 395
HOLMES Catherine Derby 19 395 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
HURD Elizabeth Derby 19 395
JONES John Derby 19 395 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
SLACK Abraham Derby 19 395

[Merry]

Catherine and John married in St Michael's Derby 9th May 1842.

[Gert in Oz]

Thank you Merry, now I need to find her baptism, I suspect she is another sister of Thomas, but I have a gap between 1815 and 1823 and she would fit nicely in there

[Merry]

There's this marriage:


Name: John Holmes
Marriage Date: 28 Feb 1785
Marriage Place: Burton Upon Trent,Stafford,England
Spouse: Elizabeth Howis

They might be the parents of Thomas Holmes b 1789.

[Merry]

Thank you Merry, now I need to find her baptism, I suspect she is another sister of Thomas, but I have a gap between 1815 and 1823 and she would fit nicely in there

I did try to find one, without success (only tried Ancestry as should really be getting out of bed now!!).

[Gert in Oz]

I did try to find one, without success (only tried Ancestry as should really be getting out of bed now!!).

LOL, yes I think they John Holmes and Elizabeth Howis are parents of both Thomas`s father and Eliza`s mother, see my first post.

Thomas does not use the name Howis, at all except on his marriage to Eliza.

[Merry]

Sorry, there was too much for me to take in from your opening post, because I didn't know what you were looking for until the end! lol

The baptisms for Thomas and Sarah are on Ancestry along with a lot of siblings.

[Margaret in Burton]

Sylvia

I'm going to the library today to look up a baptism for Merry.

Is there anything you need looking up whilst I'm there?

[Gert in Oz]

Thank you for asking Marg, you have already done the Holmes family for me, see below and we have copies of all the Hills from Family search, including Eliza and Thomas`s marriage, unfortunately the witnesses are not family

http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=9096&highlight=Thomas+Holmes

[Gert in Oz]

As you can see from that link, I suspected Thomas 1789 and Sarah 1891 were brother and sister back then, with OH`s 2x great grandparents Isaac Holmes and Amelia/Emma Hill being cousins.

Its beginning to look like I have 2 brothers marrying 2 sisters, making 2 lots of first cousins marrying from the same families.

[Margaret in Burton]

I couldn't remember if they were the same names as last time.

Well, you know you only have to ask.

[Gert in Oz]

I know, thank you Marg, I now have a contact for the Hill family, who lives in Manchester and we have been sending for copies of the baptisms and marriages from family search between us.