View Full Version : Possible breakthrough in Burton upon Trent!
My 2xg-grandfather, William Allen, has been on my tree for decades with no parents or baptism. I just thought I'd take another look and might have found a clue. He lived most of his adult life in Bristol.
1851 census - aged 42 born Staffs Lichfield
1861 census - aged 54 born Staffs Burton on Trent
1871 census - aged 63 born Staffs Ashby-de-la-Zouch
1881 census - aged 72 born Leic Ashby-de-la-Zouch
1891 census - aged 82 born Leic Ashby
William married Hannah Lakin in her home town, Alrewas, Staffs in 1831.
The only clue I had, but couldn't previously do anything with, is that his first child was called Hannah Ames Allen. At the moment I don't have the name Ames anywhere else on my tree.
I've just seen a bap for Arthur Ames Allen in 1818 in Lichfield Staffs, the son of William and Sarah Allen.
I know the name Allen is pretty common, but there's also a bap at Burton Upon Trent, Staffs for a William Allen, son of Wm and Sarah on 7 Aug 1808 and a marriage for William Allen and Sarah Ames in Lichfield in 1806.
There's seems to be a number of children baptised in Lichfield between 1810 and 1831 which may belong to the same couple. The second son is called Edwin which I don't think was a particularly popular name at that date, but my William named his only son Edwin too.
So, all looking promising until I looked for Edwin in 1841 and found him in Lichfield with his wife, child and father, William. Problem - Edwin says is a solicitor! That sounds too grand for my Allen family. My Wm was a cabinet maker and later a painter and decorator. The son named Arthur Ames Allen was a school teacher which also sounds a bit too educated.
I suppose I need to get access to the baptism for the children to check out Wm senr's occupation and see if it's constant across the Lichfield baps and the first one in Burton.
Any other ideas?
I've just found this (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2380/40180_612057_0139-00847/4199?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f cgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dukcommonpleas%26so%3d2%26pcat %3dROOT_CATEGORY%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3 d1%26MSAV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-g%26gsfn%3dedwin%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dallen%26gs ln_x%3dNP%26gskw%3dlichfield%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt%3 d1%26catBucket%3drt%26uidh%3d672%26cp%3d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults) on ancestry which says Wm senr was also a schoolmaster.
Margaret in Burton
10-06-14, 17:50
I can check out Burton baps at the Library but not Lichfield ones. Alrewas is halfway between Burton and Lichfield.
That would be great - thank you Marg.
The details from the transcription are:
7th Aug 1808 William Allen son of William and Sarah.
I'm not sure of the church yet...would there be several?
Margaret in Burton
10-06-14, 17:54
Do you know which church for 1808 baptism? I assume St Modwens but will check dates of other churches.
Margaret in Burton
10-06-14, 18:00
Would it be Burton or Alrewas?
Burton, as far as I know only had St Modwens at that date. There was All Saints at Alrewas though.
Margaret in Burton
10-06-14, 18:03
It could also be Holy Trinity in Burton, now demolished and Aldi on the site.
Do you know where they lived in Burton? Possibly not.
Margaret in Burton
10-06-14, 18:04
I'll pop in the library on Thursday when I go shopping.
kiterunner
10-06-14, 18:10
This one is on FreeREG:
Arthur Ames Allen 9 Jun 1818 St Michael, Lichfield, Frog Lane, father schoolmaster.
There is an Arthur Ames Allen who died on 20 March 1873, 12 Norfolk St, Manchester. Effects under £300. Probate to Ann his spouse. Occupation has him as a banker's clerk. He's on the 1871 census as a banker's clerk and landowner.
Marg, GENUKI says Holy Trinity wasn't built until 1824, so the baptism should be at St Modwen's.
So, at the moment we have:
Arthur Ames Allen 1818 father schoolmaster, occ schoolmaster
Edwin Allen 1810 father schoolmaster, occ solicitor
and William Allen abt 1808 father of Hannah Ames Allen, occ cabinet maker/decorator
I would not be put off by the occupation, I have an ancestor around that date who was a cabinet maker and there was quite a bit of money around, he was son of an alderman, and had well educated children who married very well.
Margaret in Burton
10-06-14, 19:24
Marg, GENUKI says Holy Trinity wasn't built until 1824, so the baptism should be at St Modwen's.
So, at the moment we have:
Arthur Ames Allen 1818 father schoolmaster, occ schoolmaster
Edwin Allen 1810 father schoolmaster, occ solicitor
and William Allen abt 1808 father of Hannah Ames Allen, occ cabinet maker/decorator
There have been three Holy Trinity's. I'll check.
Edit. Yes you are correct. I'll check St Modwen's on Thursday..
Hmmm.......
My Wm Allen's children made the following marriages
Hannah Ames Allen to George Stooke accountant/house agent (she was a second wife and he was 18 years older). His estate £3500
Edwin Allen didn't marry, painter decorator and paper hanger. Ended up in an asylum. Estate under £161
Mary Ann Allen to George Wilshire a carpenter (he was almost 30 years older).
Later she married Henry Dunford a hay cutter, but she died the quarter following the marriage.
Annie Allen married Edwin Flower Mitchell ( they are my ancestors) Edwin was a stone mason and later a publican.
Elizabeth Lakin Allen to Charles William Adams who had various jobs, the best of which was probably a clothiers buyer.
I wonder if any of the other children of William Allen and Sarah Ames could provide any clues.
This is the list of baptisms for possible children born to the couple:
William, 1808 on Burton upon Trent
Edwin, 21 Jan 1810, St Mary's Lichfield
Thomas, 29 Dec 1811, ditto
Harriet, 15 Sept 1813, ditto
John, 5 March 1815, ditto
Mary, 19 Jan 1817, ditto
Arthur, 8 June 1818, St Michael's Lichfield
Richard, 20 April 1820, St Mary's Lichfield
Frederick, 25 Dec 1821, ditto
Sarah, 3 April 1825, ditto
Louisa, 19 Nov 1826, ditto
Emma, 22 March 1831, ditto
I'd been through all those, but didn't get a lot more information. I was going to go through the pre 1837 burials which I think are on fmp to see what if any can be eliminated, but haven't had time yet!
William, 1808 on Burton upon Trent - cabinet maker
Edwin, 21 Jan 1810, St Mary's Lichfield - solicitor
Thomas, 29 Dec 1811, ditto - not found
Harriet, 15 Sept 1813, ditto - possibly buried 1814
John, 5 March 1815, ditto - possibly bricklayers labourer
Mary, 19 Jan 1817, ditto - not found
Arthur, 8 June 1818, St Michael's Lichfield - schoolmaster
Richard, 20 April 1820, St Mary's Lichfield - not found
Frederick, 25 Dec 1821, ditto - not found
Sarah, 3 April 1825, ditto - not found
Louisa, 19 Nov 1826, ditto - not found
Emma, 22 March 1831, ditto - possibly buried 1835
Mother Sarah likely burial 26 Mar 1831 aged 42.
kiterunner
10-06-14, 22:20
This could be Louisa in 1841 (bottom of left-hand page):
1841 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/STSHO107_1007_1008-0522/9740396?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1841%26MS_AdvC B%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26 gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dlouis*%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dall%253fn %26gsln_x%3dXO%26msbdy%3d1826%26msbdy_x%3d1%26uidh %3dvm5%26msbdp%3d5%26pcat%3d1841UKI%26fh%3d34%26h% 3d9740396%26recoff%3d8%2b9%26fsk%3dBEDmZmYIgAAjEgA CftI-61-%26bsk%3d%26pgoff%3d%26ml_rpos%3d35&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord)
kiterunner
10-06-14, 22:32
And this could be her in 1851 (but name is Laura - someone has corrected it to Louisa on ancestry though, so maybe they know something) - there is a Peter Minshall / Louisa Allen marriage 12 Mar 1848 St Peter's, Wolverhampton, and FamilySearch says Louisa's father was William Allen. Their first child seems to have been called Major Frederic Darling Minshall and was christened about 5 weeks after Peter and Louisa's wedding.
1851 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/STSHO107_2019_2019-0404/8542456?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26db%3duk i1851%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26 gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dlouis*%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln_x%3dXO%26ms bdy%3d1826%26msbdy_x%3d1%26gskw%3dlichfield%26gskw _x%3d1%26dbOnly%3d_F00027B9%257c_F00027B9_x%252c_F 0003039%257c_F0003039_x%252c_F000303A%257c_F000303 A_x%252c_F00032DB%257c_F00032DB_x%252c_83004006%25 7c_83004006_x%252c_F000303D%257c_F000303D_x%252c_F 000303E%257c_F000303E_x%252c_F00032F6%257c_F00032F 6_x%252c_F0003888%257c_F0003888_x%26uidh%3dvm5%26m sbdp%3d5%26pcat%3d1851UKI%26fh%3d26%26h%3d8542456% 26recoff%3d17%26fsk%3dBEFTMzMIgAAinAB5ALc-61-%26bsk%3d%26pgoff%3d%26ml_rpos%3d27&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord)
Peter Minshall is a day labourer on the census.
kiterunner
10-06-14, 22:35
Oh, FreeREG has a transcription of Louisa's marriage (with Peter's surname as Minshull) and it is definitely the right Louisa as her father is a school master. Peter's father is a farmer and Peter also a farmer on the marriage, with his abode being Astbury Cheshire. Witnesses F W Allen and Mary Allen. By licence.
kiterunner
10-06-14, 22:36
Which reminds me, Merry - do you have the names of the witnesses at your William Allen's marriage?
kiterunner
10-06-14, 22:38
1861 and Peter Minshull is a Furnace Manager:
1861 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/STSRG9_2004_2006-0293/20311462?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1861%26so%3d2%26pcat%3d186 1UKI%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d 2%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26gsfn%3dpeter%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3dmin*ll%26g sln_x%3dXO%26uidh%3dvm5%26mssng0%3dl*u*a%26mssng0_ x%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
Mary from Italy
11-06-14, 01:19
The witnesses to William Allen's marriage were Thos. Hodson and Sarah Heap (I have a disc for St Michael's, but baptisms only begin in 1813).
As a matter of interest a Benjamin Allen married Mary Ames at St. Michael's on 9/1/1806, witnesses Thos. Hodson and Harriet Moss. Maybe brothers and sisters married? According to the baptism entries, Benjamin was a tailor.
Thanks for the info for Louisa, Kate.
Which reminds me, Merry - do you have the names of the witnesses at your William Allen's marriage?
After 25 years on my tree I still haven't got a copy of the PR. Very naughty of me :o I had to just about sign the official secrets act and send them pictures of photo ID etc etc to get a copy of a baptism from Staffs CRO and it cost a fortune, so that put me off having further contact with them unless I had more to work on for Wm Allen (which now it seems like I do!). I would like the marriage witnesses to by Edwin and Wm senr, but I bet they will be from his wife's family (still useful, of course!) or serial witnesses!
As a matter of interest a Benjamin Allen married Mary Ames at St. Michael's on 9/1/1806, witnesses Thos. Hodson and Harriet Moss. Maybe brothers and sisters married? According to the baptism entries, Benjamin was a tailor.
Well, that's typical lol! I didn't see that on Ancestry as the bride's surname is mistranscribed and I got over excited finding the other entry. I can't see such a plausible baptism for a child Wm for that couple though. As you say, it could be a brother and sister marriage which might help with the tree.
There's a Benjamin (tailor) and wife Mary in Birmingham in 1861. He's 78 from Burton.
This might be George Allen in 1851 - married with one daughter, living in Hull and working as a draper.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/YRKHO107_2362_2363-0017/11016235?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1851%26so%3d2%26pcat%3d35% 26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3d angs-c%26gsfn%3dgeorge%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dallen%26g sln_x%3dNN%26gskw%3dlichfield%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt% 3d1%26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3dfpy%26cp%3d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
Hull
54 Market Place
George Allen, head, 27, draper, b Lichfield
Harriet Allen, wife, 25, b Wednesbury
Mary Allen, dau, 1, b Hull
Plus lots of employees.
This might be Frederick Allen in 1871 - transcribed as Fredericka by Ancestry! Living in Smallwood. Wasn't Arthur Ames Allen living in Smallwood in 1851?
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/CHSRG10_3703_3706-0567/24820636?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1871%26indiv%3dtry%26h%3d2 4820636&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
Amos Taylor, head, 44, farmer, b Smallwood, Cheshire
Sarah Taylor, wife, 32, b ????, Staffs
Maria Webb, sister in law, 45, farmer's wife, b ???? Staffs
Frederick Allen, father in law, widr, 49, assistant overseer, b Lichfield, Staffs
I agree, George is a possible.
I looked at that Frederick last night and got bogged down with how he could be father-in-law to the head as he's pretty young to be Sarah's father and I couldn't see an Amos Taylor to Sarah Allen marriage. Other than that, he's a possible though. (I can't remember if I looked to see how many Fred's there were bap in Lichfield now and it was only about 12 hours ago lol!!
Yes, Arthur was living at Smallwood at one point.
Other than the apparent variation in social status, the fact that this family seem to have mostly moved out of Lichfield, several quite a distance, makes e feel my Wm could fit in.
Frederick Allen in 1851. Goes some way to explaining the 1861 entry.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/CHSRG9_2610_2614-0734/23946305?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1861%26rank%3d 1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3damos%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dtaylor%26gs ln_x%3dNN%26cpxt%3d1%26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3df py%26cp%3d11%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d10%26h%3d23946305% 26recoff%3d%26ml_rpos%3d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
Frederick Allen, head, 39, farmer, b Litchfield, Staffs
Elizabeth Allen, wife, 64 (!!!), b Barthomley (?), Cheshire
Amos Taylor, son, 34, b Smallwood, Cheshire
Amos Harding, grandson, 13, scholar, b Mowcop (?), Staffs
Sarah Hollins, niece, 22, housemaid, b Madely, Staffs
From Pigot's directory, 1828-1829.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hdMHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA715&lpg=PA715&dq=special+bail+commissioner+staffordshire&source=bl&ots=J46GF-WwVd&sig=VzA5Oys-xBRYK2FX_79DHPxk6X8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XhCYU_-RIoG2O8LigKgI&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=special%20bail%20commissioner%20staffordshire&f=false
NATIONAL SCHOOL, Frog Lane
William Allen, master (& special
bail commissioner for Staffordshire
and the adjoining counties).
SAVINGS BANK, Frog Lane
Wm Allen, actuary
CORN MILLERS
Union Mill Company, Frog Lane
William Allen, clerk
But...
CONFECTIONERS
Wm Allen, Bird Street
GROCERS AND TEA DEALERS
Wm Allen, Bird Street
Thanks Shona.
I hope it does turn out to be this William, schoolmaster who is my relative as he sounds quite interesting! I suppose initially everything hangs on the occupation given (if there is one) for William on the 1808 baptism in Burton.
I also need to investigate getting a copy of my William's marriage for the witness names.
Leamington Spa Courier 25 February 1843
On Tuesday se'night, Mr. William Allen, of the city of Lichfield, aged 56 years. He was the first master for the National School in that city, and was one of the earliest teachers of Dr. Bell's system.
For ref, this is from the White's directory of 1834.
COMMSSR FOR TAKING SPECIAL BAIL
Allen, William, Frog Street
BANKS
Savings' Bank, Frog Lane (open
Fridays from 12 till 2), Wm Allen,
Secretary
ATTORNEYS
Edwin Allen, Boar Street
SCHOOLS
National School, William Allen, Frog Lane
CONFECTIONERS
Allen, Thomas, Gresley Row
GROCERS AND TEA DEALERS
William Allen, Bird Street
GARDENERS
James Allen, Green Hill
Leamington Spa Courier 25 February 1843
On Tuesday se'night, Mr. William Allen, of the city of Lichfield, aged 56 years. He was the first master for the National School in that city, and was one of the earliest teachers of Dr. Bell's system.
That ties in with one of the public trees on Ancestry which states he died at Butchers' Row, Lichfield, in February 1843.
From FMP:
Sarah Allen, buried 26 March 1831, St Michael's, Lichfield. She was 42. Emma, the youngest child of William and Sarah, was baptised at St Mary's on 22 March 1831. Emma died aged 3 and was buried at St Michael's on 3 January 1835.
I've tried the Staffs Look-up Exchange for further info on my William's marriage to Hannah Lakin in Alrewas.
From the Staffordshire Advertiser, 2 April 1831
On 22 ult. Sarah, the wife of William Allen, Master of the National School, Lichfield, aged 42; leaving thirteen surviving children to lament their loss.
There were 13 children on that list of baptisms.
From FMP:
Sarah Allen, buried 26 March 1831, St Michael's, Lichfield. She was 42. Emma, the youngest child of William and Sarah, was baptised at St Mary's on 22 March 1831. Emma died aged 3 and was buried at St Michael's on 3 January 1835.
Thanks, Shona.
From the Staffordshire Advertiser, 2 April 1831
On 22 ult. Sarah, the wife of William Allen, Master of the National School, Lichfield, aged 42; leaving thirteen surviving children to lament their loss.
There were 13 children on that list of baptisms.
That's really useful info Shona, thanks! Just checking again.........
I've got this lot (EDIT I can make it fit now!) :
1) William 1808
2) Edwin 1810
3) Thomas 1811
4) Harriet 1813 possibly buried 1814 (see note below though)
5) John 1815
6) Mary 1817
7) Arthur 1818
Sarah Rebecca 1820 (she was missed from one of our lists) bur 1820
8) Frederick 1821
9) George 1823 (missing from prev list)
10) Sarah 1825
11) Louisa 1826
12) Richard 1828 (we had him as 1820 in error on a prev list) Bur 28th Sept 1831, so after mother
13) Emma 1831
So, 13 children if Harriet wasn't dec'd! It's very possible that burial I saw is for another Harriet (though can't see another baptism) - Wm and Sarah's dau was baptised 15th Sept 1813 and the burial was 26th Nov 1814 but the burial entry says aged 0 (if transcribed correctly)
EDIT: later posts suggest Harriet bur 1814 is Wm and Sarah's daughter, so we are short by one child!
Who thinks it's worth splashing out £3.30 on this?
TNA
Reference:IR 26/359/452
Description: Abstract of Will of Mary Ames, Spinster of Lichfield, Staffordshire. Proved in the Court of Lichfield
Date: October 09 1809
kiterunner
11-06-14, 10:11
It isn't going to prove that your William is the William who you have been looking at but it could come in handy.
Yes, true.
I think first I'll wait to see if Marg finds an occupation on that 1808 baptism in Burton. :D
Mary from Italy
11-06-14, 10:58
From the St Michael's disc, there's a burial for a Harriet Allen, infant, of Frog Lane on 26 Nov 1814, and another one for a Harriet Allen, infant, of Greenhill, on 6 Dec 1819.
No parents' names given in the transcription, but I should think the first one could well be yours.
From the St Michael's disc, there's a burial for a Harriet Allen, infant, of Frog Lane on 26 Nov 1814, and another one for a Harriet Allen, infant, of Greenhill, on 6 Dec 1819.
No parents' names given in the transcription, but I should think the first one could well be yours.
Good find, Mary.
The Greenhill one could be a daughter of James Allen of Greenhill, listed as a gardener in the 1834 White's Directory.
Hmmm, so either they have lost count of their children or there's another one hiding somewhere?
Could the missing one be James? This one is on the 1881 census with wife Elizabeth and children. Born c1816 in Lichfield. Butcher and general dealer.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/STSRG11_2848_2851-0524/19689659?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1881%26rank%3d 1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3djames%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dallen%26gs ln_x%3dNN%26gskw%3dlichfield%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt%3 d1%26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3dfpy%26cp%3d11%26pca t%3d35%26fh%3d0%26h%3d19689659%26recoff%3d%26ml_rp os%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
West Brom
James Allen, 65, butcher and general dealer, b Lichfield
Elizabeth Allen, 70, wife, b ??? Worcestershire
This is James and Elizabeth in 1871 in West Brom.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/STSRG10_2983_2985-0474/2531170?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1871%26rank%3d 1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3djames%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dallen%26gs ln_x%3dNN%26gskw%3dwest%2bbromwich%26gskw_x%3d1%26 cpxt%3d1%26uidh%3dfpy%26cp%3d11%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3 d1%26h%3d2531170%26recoff%3d%26ml_rpos%3d2&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
James Allen, 55, general dealer, b Lichfield
Elizabeth Allen, 61, general dealer's wife b Oldbury
Sarah Allen, 22, shopwoman, b West Brom
Elizabeth Allen, 19, ditto, ditto
Susan Allen, 17, ditto, ditto
Louisa Allen, 15, ditto, ditto
Thomas Allen, butcher journeyman, ditto
Ah-ha! In 1861, James is a seedsman and butcher.
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=uki1861&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=james&gsfn_x=NN&gsln=allen&gsln_x=NN&gskw=west+bromwich&gskw_x=1&cpxt=1&uidh=fpy&cp=11&pcat=35&fh=10&h=20457862&recoff=&ml_rpos=11
In 1851, he is a seedsman. It looks as if Elizabeth has been married before as there are two children listed as son of wife and daughter of wife.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/STSHO107_2025_2026-0717/8687109?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1851%26rank%3d 1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3djames%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dallen%26gs ln_x%3dNN%26gskw%3dwest%2bbromwich%26gskw_x%3d1%26 cpxt%3d1%26uidh%3dfpy%26cp%3d11%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3 d0%26h%3d8687109%26recoff%3d6%2b7%2b18%2b19%26ml_r pos%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
And in 1841, he is a gardener!
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/STSHO107_977_977-0159/13718585?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1841%26rank%3d 1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3djames%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dallen%26gs ln_x%3dNN%26gskw%3dwest%2bbromwich%26gskw_x%3d1%26 cpxt%3d1%26uidh%3dfpy%26cp%3d11%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3 d1%26h%3d13718585%26recoff%3d9%2b10%26ml_rpos%3d2&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
So he could be the same James Allen listed in the 1834 White's Directory as a gardener living at Greenhill.
Which means that the death of Harriet Allen in Greenhill isn't a child of his.
Here's the marriage:
Marriages Sep 1843
ALLEN James W Bromwich 18 474
MILLERSHIP Elizabeth W Bromwich 18 474
Mary from Italy
11-06-14, 13:18
There's a baptism for a James Allen at St Michael's in 1815, parents James (cordwainer) and Sarah, of Streethay.
Unfortunately I don't have baptisms for other Lichfield churches, apart from Shenstone.
A bit more blur from White's Directory
THE SAVING BANK, at the National School, in Frog Lane, was established in 1818. Its deposits in November 1832 amounted to £27,516 8s 9d, belonging to 790 individuals and three friendly societies. The bank is open every Friday from 12 till 2 o'clock. Mr Wm Allen is the secretary.
There's a baptism for a James Allen at St Michael's in 1815, parents James (cordwainer) and Sarah, of Streethay.
Unfortunately I don't have baptisms for other Lichfield churches, apart from Shenstone.
Ah - so he's not one of William and Sarah's.
Mary from Italy
11-06-14, 13:43
Doesn't look like it, sorry.
Margaret in Burton
11-06-14, 14:30
Thanks Shona.
I hope it does turn out to be this William, schoolmaster who is my relative as he sounds quite interesting! I suppose initially everything hangs on the occupation given (if there is one) for William on the 1808 baptism in Burton.
I also need to investigate getting a copy of my William's marriage for the witness names.
Yes, true.
I think first I'll wait to see if Marg finds an occupation on that 1808 baptism in Burton. :D
I shall be going to the library tomorrow morning and will try to update you off my phone.
I'll also ask if they have Alrewas marriages but I would think they are more likely to be at Lichfield.
Do you have a date for the marriage in 1831 just in case Burton do have Alrewas marriages.
kiterunner
11-06-14, 14:50
Do you have a date for the marriage in 1831 just in case Burton do have Alrewas marriages.
It's indexed on FamilySearch, Marg - 18 Aug 1831.
Margaret in Burton
11-06-14, 15:19
Thanks Kate
Thank you so much Marg.
There's no need to rush about with the answer, as I will probably be at Tesco or collecting something from Argos tomorrow morning!
Margaret in Burton
11-06-14, 16:33
Thank you so much Marg.
There's no need to rush about with the answer, as I will probably be at Tesco or collecting something from Argos tomorrow morning!
Well, if I can get a connection I shall.
I've done an online grocery order to come tomorrow afternoon. As it's going to be a tad warm apparently and I have lots of other places to go to as well, it'll save me humping it about.
Margaret in Burton
12-06-14, 10:12
I'm here at the fiche reader now. It says:
William son of William &Sarah Allen baptised 7 Aug 1808 at St Modwen's
It doesn't give an occupation but it does say they were from Ashby de la Zouch.
I've taken a photo of it and will email it to Merry later.
They don't have Alrewas records here. As I thought they are at Lichfield
Thank you for looking Marg! (love the idea you are right there, right now! lol)
That's interesting as my William did say he was born in Ashby (as well as Burton and Lichfield!). I do think this is extremely likely to be the right baptism. If only the schoolmaster had written a will. I had high hopes of that given one son was a solicitor and dad was apparently living with him in 1841, two years before William's death. I couldn't see anything on the Death Duty index though.
Thanks again Marg :D
Mary from Italy
12-06-14, 11:32
I think you're going to have to be a bit careful here, because I see (on familysearch) that there's a marriage for a William Allen and Sarah Marriott at St. Modwen's, Burton-on-Trent in 1805, who seem more likely to be the parents of the William baptised in 1808.
Mary from Italy
12-06-14, 11:33
I checked my Leics marriage disc out of interest, but there isn't a marriage for a William Allen and Sarah in Ashby.
Hmmm........Yes, I see what you mean.
It was the use of the names Ames and Edwin for two of my William's children that made me want to link up to this family.
I don't see any further children born in Burton for Wm and Sarah (Marriott) - if the 1808 child is theirs.
If William the school master had 13 children surviving in March 1831 then I would now need to find yet another baptism for his family. There's barely room for another!
I checked my Leics marriage disc out of interest, but there isn't a marriage for a William Allen and Sarah in Ashby.
Thanks Mary.
If the 1808 bap doesn't belong to the schoolmaster's child then I should think one of his missing two children would still be a William as he named two babies Sarah but otherwise none after himself!
I'm aware that when looking for Libby's OH's relatives I found nothing on the Death Duty Index for some of them, despite the wills they wrote. I thought I might get somewhere when I saw there was a Lichfield Wills Index, but it only goes up to 1766!
Mary from Italy
12-06-14, 12:35
You could try an e-mail to the Lichfield RO to see if they'll check their card index for you. Not sure if they'd make a charge for doing it.
I think it said their min charge is 30 mins research, but don't have time to check that again now. Off out....
If you could just solve this by the time I come back it would be much appreciated!!! :D
Margaret in Burton
12-06-14, 12:47
The Ashby clue is something though.
They were perhaps staying with family in the Burton area. One of my great uncles was baptised in Suffolk even though he was born in Burton.
Margaret in Burton
12-06-14, 12:49
Merry, pm me your email addy please. I don't have it to hand at the moment.
Thanks for the image Marg!
You will love this....... I was saying to OH this morning that Wm Allen sr and Sarah Ames had so many children they had used up most popular names by the time they finished their family - the only common name they hadn't used was Ann.
The Staffs Look-up Exchange lady has come back to me with a transcription of the full entry for my Wm's marriage at Alrewas Staffs:
1831 Aug 18
William ALLEN, of St Mary in the City of Lichfield, & Hannah LAKIN, of this parish by Licence, by Henry T. GREENE, Curate
Witnesses: Tho’s HARDING, Ann ALLEN
lol There's an Ann Allen there! I wonder who she is?!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
kiterunner
12-06-14, 22:01
FamilySearch has the baptism of an Ann Allen 31 Aug 1808 at Rushall, Staffordshire, parents William Allen and Sarah Hulme, dob 15 Jul 1808. Also listed under Mavesyn Ridware but only the year 1808 is given for that one.
William Allen married Sarah Hulme 1805 Rushall (also on FamilySearch).
Edit - never mind, just realised that would mean she was born at almost exactly the same time as William!
I hate these quite common names - not as bad as Smith, but there always seems to be two options to choose from, which may as well be 20!
I got bogged down with an Ann Allen marrying a William Harding (not Thomas!) at Lichfield cathedral a couple of months after the Alrewas marriage. Couldn't get anywhere with it though!
From Pigot's directory, 1828-1829.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hdMHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA715&lpg=PA715&dq=special+bail+commissioner+staffordshire&source=bl&ots=J46GF-WwVd&sig=VzA5Oys-xBRYK2FX_79DHPxk6X8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=XhCYU_-RIoG2O8LigKgI&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=special%20bail%20commissioner%20staffordshire&f=false
NATIONAL SCHOOL, Frog Lane
William Allen, master (& special
bail commissioner for Staffordshire
and the adjoining counties).
SAVINGS BANK, Frog Lane
Wm Allen, actuary
CORN MILLERS
Union Mill Company, Frog Lane
William Allen, clerk
But...
CONFECTIONERS
Wm Allen, Bird Street
GROCERS AND TEA DEALERS
Wm Allen, Bird Street
I've eliminated the Bird Street William Allen. He had a son William b 1830 who attended Cambridge uni - definitely not mine!
It looks certain(ish) that William Allen and Sarah Ames had 13 children baptised at Lichfield 1810-1831. We know two of those children died before their mother. So eleven known children were alive when Sarah died, but her death notice in the paper says she has 13 surviving children at her death.
One of the other two children might be William (possibly the baptism in Burton in 1808) and this could be the other one (from a2a):
BRT8/255/ff.77-8 31.8.1807
Shakespeare Centre Library and Archive
Contents:
Bastardy papers, Mother = Sarah Ames, Father = William Allen, Ashby de la Zouche, Trade = Writing master, Other details = Daughter born 7/10/03; parties have since married, Document = Bond
When Marg looked at the 1808 Burton baptism for William she noted the family were 'of Ashby de la Zouch', and the above couple seem to also have lived there!!
Closer and closer.......
*waits for another spanner from Mary* :rolleyes: (I haven't forgotten Sarah Marriott)
Perhaps the girl b 7/10./1803 was called Ann?!!
Mary from Italy
13-06-14, 13:19
< Hides spanners >
Mary from Italy
13-06-14, 13:20
Actually that bastardy order does look very promising.
The National School in Frog Lane was established up in 1809 by Wm Allen (History, Gazetteer, and Directory of Staffordshire) which would tie in well as follows.....
Sarah Ames gives birth to Wm Allen's dau in 1803 in Ashby
Sarah and Wm marry in 1805 in Lichfield (perhaps I need to know which parishes they were from if not otp?)
Wm Allen jr bap 1808 in Burton but family are from Ashby
Family move from Ashby to Lichfield and Wm senr sets up the school in 1809
All subsequent children bap in Lichfield, from 1810.
The above is how I would like it to fall into place!
The final piece of the jigsaw would be if the 1803 child was Ann (Allen) who married Wm Harding in 1831 at Lichfield cathedral and was witness at my William's marriage a couple of months earlier. I've been unable to force any of that to fit in though!!!
Actually that bastardy order does look very promising.
lol hello Mary!
They do really NEED to have another child between the dau in 1803 and Edwin in 1810, given how many more there are after that. I feel my William must be the missing child and the 1808 baptism is very likely to be the one, despite Miss Marriott!
Sarah and Wm marry in 1805 in Lichfield (perhaps I need to know which parishes they were from if not otp?)
Hmmm, well, I can't have everything! FreeREG:
County Staffordshire
Place Lichfield
Church St Michael
Marriage Date 21 Dec 1806
Groom Forename William
Groom Surname ALLEN
Groom Parish Otp
Bride Forename Sarah
Bride Surname AMES
Bride Parish Otp
Witness One Forename Thomas
Witness One Surname HODSON
Witness Two Forename Sarah
Witness Two Surname HEAP
Notes All sign the register.
and then there's this one.....two bros and two sisters???
County Staffordshire
Place Lichfield
Church St Michael
Marriage Date 09 Jan 1806
Groom Forename Benjamin
Groom Surname ALLEN
Groom Parish Otp
Bride Forename Mary
Bride Surname AMES
Bride Parish Otp
Witness One Forename Thomas
Witness One Surname HODSON
Witness Two Forename Harriet
Witness Two Surname MOSS
Notes All sign the register.
Mary from Italy
13-06-14, 14:11
I've just been having another look, but I can't find a baptism for an Ann or another child likely to be the one born in 1803. There's nothing under the surname Ames or Allen at St Michael's, Lichfield (on my disc), nothing at Ashby (FreeReg has transcribed baptisms for 1783-1812), and I can't see anything on familysearch either.
The only additional snippet of information I've found is an Ann Allen witnessing the marriage of Philip John Wright (widower) and Ann Ames at St. Michael's, Lichfield on 26/2/1827. The other witness was Samuel South.
Margaret in Burton
13-06-14, 14:16
Merry, make a list what you need from Lichfield Record Office and if they have them of course.
I've not been there before but there is an express bus from Burton to Lichfield, or I could persuade daughter to take me and fetch me back. It's only 10 miles down the A38.
Not promising when but Dave has ancestors from Lichfield too so I could make a day of it.
Margaret in Burton
13-06-14, 14:19
Has anyone checked to see if FreeReg has anything?
Mary from Italy
13-06-14, 14:24
Yes, as I said upthread they have Ashby baptisms for 1783-1812. They also have Ashby marriages 1754-1830 and burials 1760-1800.
Margaret in Burton
13-06-14, 14:26
Yes, as I said upthread they have Ashby baptisms for 1783-1812. They also have Ashby marriages 1754-1830 and burials 1760-1800.
No, I meant for Lichfield.
Mary from Italy
13-06-14, 14:26
I go to Lichfield RO sometimes too, but I'm not sure whether I'll be going to the UK this summer. If not, it'll be next year.
Mary from Italy
13-06-14, 14:28
They only seem to have transcribed St Michael's and St Chad's (part), Lichfield, not St Mary's, which is where the family were living.
Margaret in Burton
13-06-14, 14:30
They only seem to have transcribed St Michael's and St Chad's (part), Lichfield, not St Mary's, which is where the family were living.
So, it looks like we need a trip to Lichfield. Think I'm a bit closer than you Mary.:D:D
Mary from Italy
13-06-14, 14:52
Just a bit :)
I've always found the staff very helpful there. I seem to remember you need a CARN card.
Margaret in Burton
13-06-14, 15:06
Yes I've read the website.
Mary from Italy
13-06-14, 16:07
It's possible that Benjamin Allen, tailor was the brother of William Allen.
A George and Mary Allen (possible marriage in 1766 to Mary Astle) had numerous children in Burton, including Benjamin bap 1783 and William bap 1786, who would be old enough to marry in 1806.
Benjamin and wife Mary are on the 1841-1861 censuses (I haven't looked any further yet). His birthplace is Burton, and hers appears to be Lawton, Cheshire. I haven't found a baptism for any Ames in the Lawton area yet.
Thanks Marg and Mary.
I'll go through everything more carefully in the next couple of days and post on here what would be really useful from Lichfield! I don't want to miss anything!!
I'm quite excited now - looks like I'm getting somewhere after all this time! I think this is really the first time my dad's side is looking interesting!
This family are my furthest north in my tree! lol
Mary from Italy
13-06-14, 17:35
I assume you could get the bastardy file from the Shakespeare Centre, but the only one I've ever looked at didn't have much information in it.
Might be worth an e-mail to ask if it contains any more information than you already have, and ask for an estimate for copying it.
Sorry, we've had visitors.
Marg, thank you so much for the offer to go to Lichfield. Please make sure you are going for your OH and not just for me.
Mary, I will make enquires about the bastardy order.
A George and Mary Allen (possible marriage in 1766 to Mary Astle) had numerous children in Burton, including Benjamin bap 1783 and William bap 1786, who would be old enough to marry in 1806.
The 1786 baptism fits well with Wm's age at burial.
George seems to have also been a tailor (like Benjamin) as there are several apprentice records with him as master.
I think George's marriage was probably earlier as the first George/Mary bap is 11 Nov 1773.
Margaret in Burton
13-06-14, 22:35
Sorry, we've had visitors.
Marg, thank you so much for the offer to go to Lichfield. Please make sure you are going for your OH and not just for me.
Mary, I will make enquires about the bastardy order.
Lichfield is a lovely place and I haven't been for about 35 years yet it's only about 10 miles down the road.
Mary from Italy
13-06-14, 22:41
Yes, I always enjoy going to Lichfield. It's where my parents met during the war.
Mary from Italy
13-06-14, 22:49
I think George's marriage was probably earlier as the first George/Mary bap is 11 Nov 1773.
The first of the 11 baptisms I found is actually Mary, bap 1768, so I thought the 1766 marriage fitted well.
Mary from Italy
13-06-14, 23:00
There's a probable baptism for Mary Astle in Burton in 1746, but I can't see anything obvious for George.
Mary from Italy
13-06-14, 23:05
I think the Benjamin Astle mentioned here may be Mary's father:
Worsted and Other Cloths From the end of the 17th century lighter, worsted woollen fabrics such as tammy and jersey were being produced in Burton. Ralph Astle worked as a weaver and jersey comber by 1693, (fn. 17) and in 1755 Benjamin Astle had a tammy manufactory in High Street, which was managed after his death in 1761 by his sons Benjamin and John.
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=12335
Mary from Italy
13-06-14, 23:16
These people presumably fit into your tree somewhere:
http://www.archives.staffordshire.gov.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqIni=DserveV.ini&dsqApp=Archive2&dsqCmd=Show.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqPos=2&dsqSearch=%28%28%28text%29%3D%27astle%27%29AND%28% 28text%29%3D%27burton%27%29%29
Margaret in Burton
13-06-14, 23:41
Any further Burton research needed let me know before next Thursday, that's when I'll be in town.
The first of the 11 baptisms I found is actually Mary, bap 1768, so I thought the 1766 marriage fitted well.
lol I misread the marriage date you mentioned as 1776 not 1766 :o. Plus I can only find ten baptisms....
Geo 1773 (no burial in Burton before the other Geo bap)
Thomas 1776 (poss burial 1777)
Geo 1776 (bap three weeks after Thomas :eek:)
Sarah 1778
Thomas 1780
Benjamin 1783
Jeremiah 1785
Wm 1786
Hannah 1778
Joseph 1791
Now I''ve had a look on FS rather than just Ancestry and have found a Mary at Burton in 1770 (I still can't find this on Ancestry). :o I can't find anything for 1768 though.
EDIT I was doing a different search and the 1770 entry turned up on Ancestry after all!
There's a probable baptism for Mary Astle in Burton in 1746, but I can't see anything obvious for George.
I hope that is the right Mary as I like the sound of her family!
I think the Benjamin Astle mentioned here may be Mary's father:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=12335
These people presumably fit into your tree somewhere:
http://www.archives.staffordshire.gov.uk/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqIni=DserveV.ini&dsqApp=Archive2&dsqCmd=Show.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqPos=2&dsqSearch=%28%28%28text%29%3D%27astle%27%29AND%28% 28text%29%3D%27burton%27%29%29
Looks good!!
Any further Burton research needed let me know before next Thursday, that's when I'll be in town.
Hopefully I will get a chance to go through this some time this weekend and work some things out. Thanks again for your kind offer, Marg.
There's a probable baptism for Mary Astle in Burton in 1746, but I can't see anything obvious for George.
I hope that is the right Mary as I like the sound of her family!
Geo seems to be 1745 -1822 but there are lots of possible burials for Mary.
Margaret in Burton
14-06-14, 09:38
Hopefully I will get a chance to go through this some time this weekend and work some things out. Thanks again for your kind offer, Marg.
For the amount of help you've give me and others on here and FTF over the years it's a pleasure to be able to give some back. You deserve it.
Awww.....thanks Marg! :o:o:o
Just realised I will get some time whilst England are playing this evening! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
kiterunner
14-06-14, 10:59
It's a pretty late night match, though, Merry - kick off is at 11 p.m.
Oh cripes! lol I hadn't realised that!! Obvious really when I think about it.
I'll make too many mistakes if I look at this then! Maybe tomorrow!! :cool:
Mary from Italy
14-06-14, 13:13
I can't find anything for 1768 though.
I could have sworn it was a Mary bap in 1768, but I've checked famsearch again, and it's Jemimah. The baptism in 1785 that you've given as Jeremiah is also listed as Jemimah by FS. They're both listed as female.
If you search FS, enter the place name as Burton*, which allows for all the possible spelling permutations of Burton on Trent (on, upon, with and without hyphens).
I didn't get around to checking all the duplicate entries yesterday, so I hadn't noticed that there were two children baptised in 1776. So either these are two different families, or they were twins, and one was baptised privately before the other because it was sickly.
Thanks Mary. Here's an updated list (I've found all the entries on Ancestry now, but don't understand why they didn't come up before)
Jemima 1768 (poss bur 1773)
Mary 1770
Geo 1773 (no burial in Burton before the other Geo bap)
Thomas 1776 (poss burial 1777)
Geo 1776 (bap three weeks after Thomas )
Sarah 1778
Thomas 1780
Benjamin 1783
Jemimah 1785
Wm 1786
Hannah 1778
Joseph 1791
Mary from Italy
14-06-14, 18:59
Familysearch has a death for Hannah on 2 April 1794.
Marg has kindly been back to Burton Library and helped me further with this branch of my tree. She looked up a lot of entries for me, but this is the first bit I'm investigating:
I was concerned that my 2xg-grandfather, William Allen (the schoolmaster who died in 1843) had said "No" for Born in County on the 1841 census. He was living in Lichfield, Staffs at the time, so I was bothered that we had chosen a baptism in Burton (Staffs) 5th Nov 1786 as the right one for William (parents George Allen and Mary Astle). I asked Marg to look at this baptism to see if there was any other information included. There wasn't, but she did spot the following........
We already knew that George Allen and Mary Astle were married 3 Jan 1766 at St Modwen's Burton.
Thanks to Marg I have this additional info:
George Allen a bachelor of EGGINTON, DERBYSHIRE and Mary Astle a spinster of St Modwen's parish were married by licence on 3 Jan 1766.
They both signed the register. Witnesses were John Astle and ? Astle.
Following this marriage we had the following children baptised at St Modwen's Burton:
Jemima 13 Jan 1768 (poss bur 1773)
Mary 28 Dec 1770
Geo 11 Nov 1773 (no burial in Burton before the other Geo bap)
Thomas 2 Jun 1776 (poss burial 1777)
Geo 23 Jun 1776 (bap three weeks after Thomas )
Sarah 24 Apr 1778
Thomas 30 Apr 1780
Benjamin 1 Jan 1783
Jemimah 22 Jul 1785
William 5 Nov 1786
Hannah 23 Nov 1778
Joseph 17 Jul 1791
I've looked at online records for Egginton and found these two baptisms:
Jemima 3 Jan 1768
Hannah 9 Apr 1769
Could Jemima be the same child as the one bap above in Burton?
Is Hannah an additional child squeezed in between Jemima and Mary?
Did Wm bap 1786 think he was born in Derbyshire?
Remember William married Sarah Ames around the same time Benjamin married Mary Ames (1806) and so I thought they were probably brothers and sisters, but Benjamin knew he was from Burton and which county that was in!
I've found a burial in Burton 17 Jan 1778 for a Hannah Allen who could be the dau b 1769 who would need to have died by Nov 1778.
Margaret in Burton
20-06-14, 10:50
Remember that Egginton is only 5 miles from Burton even though it's in a different county.
Jemima is an unusual name and I did find a burial at St Modwen's 5 May 1773 for Jemima daughter of George and Mary Allen. Also, a Sarah buried 19 May 1773 daughter of George and Mary Allen.
Margaret in Burton
20-06-14, 10:56
Just because they were Baptised in Burton of course it doesn't mean they were born here. Burton is in a little corner of Staffordshire surrounded by Derbyshire. On the southern side the river Trent used to be the county boundary until about 1890. Stapenhill and Winshill which are now part of Burton and in Staffordshire used to be in Derbyshire. Annoying for me as I need some Winshill PR's and they are at Matlock which I can't get to. They don't even have copies at Derby local studies.
That's something Merry, I can get to Derby if there is anything there in the local studies library.
I feel this is all fitting together, Marg!
Where is Marchington? George (the one who was of Egginton when he married) should have been born about 1744/5 according to his age given at death. There's a George bap at Marchington in Nov 1744 son of George and Sarah Allen. There's a burial for a George Allen in Egginton 18 Apr 1765 which might be for the father.
Margaret in Burton
20-06-14, 11:07
I feel this is all fitting together, Marg!
Where is Marchington? George (the one who was of Egginton when he married) should have been born about 1744/5 according to his age given at death. There's a George bap at Marchington in Nov 1744 son of George and Sarah Allen. There's a burial for a George Allen in Egginton 18 Apr 1765 which might be for the father.
Not far away, going towards Uttoxeter.
About 12 miles from Egginton. Have a look on Google maps.
I'm not familiar with records form this part of the country so I don't know what the coverage is like on different sites. Any tips? :D (just going to eat something, so not ignoring....)
Margaret in Burton
20-06-14, 12:52
I'm not familiar with records form this part of the country so I don't know what the coverage is like on different sites. Any tips? :D (just going to eat something, so not ignoring....)
I don't think there will be anything that you aren't already using. Obviously you are too early for Staffordshire BMD.
I think the best bet is to keep checking Google Maps for vicinity.
Margaret in Burton
20-06-14, 12:54
I'll find out where the PR's for Egginton are kept.
Thanks Marg.
Going out for a while now........... :D
Margaret in Burton
20-06-14, 12:59
Derby local studies is closed at the moment til approx November. They are moving buildings. I will still be able to get there though.
Margaret in Burton
20-06-14, 13:04
I've just emailed Burton library to ask for a list of the parish registers they hold in and around Burton. It would be so helpful to me and to others needing Burton research to have one. Save me emailing each time I need to know something.
I've just emailed Burton library to ask for a list of the parish registers they hold in and around Burton. It would be so helpful to me and to others needing Burton research to have one. Save me emailing each time I need to know something.
Hope you don't get a reply from the person who doesn't know where St Modwen's church is! lol
Margaret in Burton
20-06-14, 13:45
Hope you don't get a reply from the person who doesn't know where St Modwen's church is! lol
:D:D
It's possible that Benjamin Allen, tailor was the brother of William Allen.
A George and Mary Allen (possible marriage in 1766 to Mary Astle) had numerous children in Burton, including Benjamin bap 1783 and William bap 1786, who would be old enough to marry in 1806.
Benjamin and wife Mary are on the 1841-1861 censuses (I haven't looked any further yet). His birthplace is Burton, and hers appears to be Lawton, Cheshire. I haven't found a baptism for any Ames in the Lawton area yet.
Benjamin's wife, Mary Allen nee Ames was b about 1787 in Lawton Cheshire, according to the 1851/61 censuses.
William Allen's wife Sarah Allen nee Ames was born in an unknown place about 1789 (according to her burial record in 1831)
Imagining they may be two sisters, I found the following:
Samuel Ames married Martha Bostock 15 Jul 1783 at Barthomley, Cheshire (he may have been married before in 1781 but I can't decide if it's the same man or not).
There were five children baptised....four at Church Lawton inc Mary 24 Dec 1786 and Sarah 8 Mar 1789. Their last child was bap at Alrewas Staffs in 1795. Alrewas is 33 miles from Church Lawton but only five miles from Lichfield where the two Allen/Ames marriages took place.
If I could find burials that fitted for Samuel and Martha I would be even happier..... :)
I've just been having another look, but I can't find a baptism for an Ann or another child likely to be the one born in 1803. There's nothing under the surname Ames or Allen at St Michael's, Lichfield (on my disc), nothing at Ashby (FreeReg has transcribed baptisms for 1783-1812), and I can't see anything on familysearch either.
The only additional snippet of information I've found is an Ann Allen witnessing the marriage of Philip John Wright (widower) and Ann Ames at St. Michael's, Lichfield on 26/2/1827. The other witness was Samuel South.
I looked up Philip John Wright and his family on the census before, but his Ann was too old to be the illegitimate child of William Allen and Sarah Ames b 1807 (and of course the witness might be that Ann!). Of course, now I can't find the person I thought was Philip's wife (Philip died in 1847) to see if she fits with Ann Ames, sister of Sarah and Mary who was bap in Church Lawton, Cheshire in 1792. I would surely have noticed if Mrs Wright had Lawton or Church Lawton as a place of birth, so maybe I had the wrong person in any case, or maybe unconnected.
Samuel Ames married Martha Bostock 15 Jul 1783 at Barthomley, Cheshire (he may have been married before in 1781 but I can't decide if it's the same man or not).
I should think this is Martha Bostock:
Name: Martha Bostock
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 4 Jun 1758
Baptism Place: Barthomley, Cheshire, England
Father: William Bostock
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