Help - Irish research

[Margaret in Burton]

I am researching another branch of my son in laws family. His grandfather William Thomas Dyer was apparently born in Ireland.

All parties are deceased.

He married in Burton on Trent. I've checked the marriage out at the library this morning and have this:

January 5th 1952 at St John the Divine, Horninglow, Burton on Trent.

William Thomas Dyer aged 26 a bachelor and an engineer.
Address 10 Harper Avenue, Burton
Father, Arthur Dyer a labourer

Eileen Betty Salt aged 20 and a spinster. Father Charles Edward Salt . I have done the Salt line and it's the Dyer line I want to research.

Witnesses David Havilland Roberts and Charles Edward Salt.


William Thomas Dyer died in Derby in October 1994. His date of birth is listed as 3 June 1924.
Register Number: F1C
District and Subdistrict: 3941F
Entry Number: 109

This age slightly differs from the age at marriage.

The family knew him to be Irish.

There is a birth registration for a William Thomas Dyer in the Irish Civil Registration index for June qtr 1924 vol 2 - page 365 Dublin North

Do the Irish indexes use the first month for the registration instead of the last month of the quarter as England and Wales do?

Where do I go from here. I want to avoid having to send for the birth cert if possible.

[kiterunner]

FamilySearch shows it as the April-June quarter, Marg.

Edit - and ancestry says Apr-May-Jun.

[Margaret in Burton]

FamilySearch shows it as the April-June quarter, Marg.

So that date of birth is either wrong or I have the wrong man.

[kiterunner]

Sorry, I'm not with you, Marg - his date of birth is 3 Jun 1924 and his birth was registered Apr-Jun 1924? Seems right to me?

[kiterunner]

There are very few Arthur Dyers in Ireland, and there is a marriage Oct-Dec 1923 Dublin North, very likely to be William's parents in there, but may not be so easy to figure out which one of these is his mother:

Vol 2 p 250
Robert O'Reilly
Kathleen Brady
Bridget Whelan
Charles William Cake
Francis Bushe
William McBay
Lily O'Toole
Lily Murphy
Arthur Dyer

[Margaret in Burton]

Sorry, I'm not with you, Marg - his date of birth is 3 Jun 1924 and his birth was registered Apr-Jun 1924? Seems right to me?

Ignore me, brain dead today.

[Margaret in Burton]

There are very few Arthur Dyers in Ireland, and there is a marriage Oct-Dec 1923 Dublin North, very likely to be William's parents in there, but may not be so easy to figure out which one of these is his mother:

Vol 2 p 250
Robert O'Reilly
Kathleen Brady
Bridget Whelan
Charles William Cake
Francis Bushe
William McBay
Lily O'Toole
Lily Murphy
Arthur Dyer

Yes, I've seen that. There is also an army record on FMP for an Arthur Dyer, born 1900 . Father is Thomas Dyer of 53 Lower Domnick St Dublin.

If I HAVE to get the birth cert, how much are they and how do I do it?
Never done any Irish research.

[kiterunner]

Ooh, found some army records for an Arthur Dyer of Dublin, born about 1900, just about to look through them. Ancestry has two lots but they are both for the same person:
First one (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1219/GBRMIL1914R4PT2_138034-00413/608593?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dbritisharmyservice%26MS_AdvCB %3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d-1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dart*%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3ddyer%26gsln _x%3dXO%26sbo%3d0%26catBucket%3dr%26uidh%3dvm5%26g l%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d20%26fsk%3dBEENq34I gAAEwwAHxsY-61-&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
Second one (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1219/GBRMIL1914R4PT2_138034-00421/608748?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dbritisharmyservice%26MS_AdvCB %3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d-1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dart*%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3ddyer%26gsln _x%3dXO%26sbo%3d0%26catBucket%3dr%26uidh%3dvm5%26g l%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d20%26fsk%3dBEENq34I gAAEwwAHxsY-61-&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

Edit - never mind, I see you already have those.

[Margaret in Burton]

I also tried to find Arthur Dyer on a census if he is the one born 1900 with no luck. I do have some FMP credits I can use on Irish records.

[Margaret in Burton]

Ooh, found some army records for an Arthur Dyer of Dublin, born about 1900, just about to look through them. Ancestry has two lots but they are both for the same person:
First one (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1219/GBRMIL1914R4PT2_138034-00413/608593?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dbritisharmyservice%26MS_AdvCB %3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d-1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dart*%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3ddyer%26gsln _x%3dXO%26sbo%3d0%26catBucket%3dr%26uidh%3dvm5%26g l%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d20%26fsk%3dBEENq34I gAAEwwAHxsY-61-&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
Second one (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1219/GBRMIL1914R4PT2_138034-00421/608748?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dbritisharmyservice%26MS_AdvCB %3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d-1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dart*%26gsfn_x%3dXO%26gsln%3ddyer%26gsln _x%3dXO%26sbo%3d0%26catBucket%3dr%26uidh%3dvm5%26g l%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d20%26fsk%3dBEENq34I gAAEwwAHxsY-61-&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

Edit - never mind, I see you already have those.

I found them on FMP

[kiterunner]

This is how you order a certificate online and it is 20 euros plus postage, but I seem to remember there is another cheaper option; will see if I can find it:
http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/1/bdm/Certificates/

[kiterunner]

Timeline (private genealogy company) say they can send you a digital copy of the certificate for 12 euros:
http://timeline.ie/general-register-office/

I don't know whether anyone on here knows of a cheaper service, though?

[Margaret in Burton]

This is how you order a certificate online and it is 20 euros plus postage, but I seem to remember there is another cheaper option; will see if I can find it:
http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/1/bdm/Certificates/

Timeline (private genealogy company) say they can send you a digital copy of the certificate for 12 euros:
http://timeline.ie/general-register-office/

I don't know whether anyone on here knows of a cheaper service, though?

Expensive either way

[kiterunner]

This is Arthur Dyer in 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Rotunda/Dominick_Street__Lower/61614/

[kiterunner]

And in 1901:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/North_City/Little_Denmark_Street/1332964/

[Margaret in Burton]

I know I'm jumping ahead but look -

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&MS_AdvCB=1&db=WebSearch-4150&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=2&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=thomas&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=dyer&gsln_x=XO&msrpn__ftp=dublin&msrpn__ftp_x=1&dbOnly=_83004006|_83004006_x&uidh=p77&pcat=35&fh=1&h=9881445&recoff=&ml_rpos=2

Could Little Denmark St, Dublin be almost the same as Lower Domnick St in the Army record for Arthur Dyer?

[kiterunner]

That is definitely the same family who are at Lower Dominick Street in 1911, Marg.

[Margaret in Burton]

Yes, just found that.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=websearch-4050&MS_AdvCB=1&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=2&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=arthur&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=dyer&gsln_x=XO&msrpn__ftp=dublin&msrpn__ftp_x=1&cpxt=1&uidh=p77&cp=11&pcat=35&fh=0&h=16823136&recoff=&ml_rpos=1

[Margaret in Burton]

I don't think Dyer is a common name in Ireland. Arthur Dyer on those census does seem to be about the right age to have a son in 1924.

[Margaret in Burton]

I've just realised I put that this was my son in laws great grandfather. I've edited it, William Thomas Dyer was his maternal grandfather. Eileen Betty Dyer nee Salt died young in tragic circumstances, she drowned after a car accident. My son in laws mother and her elder sister were brought up in a childrens home for a long time until their father was able to look after them again. They know very little.

[kiterunner]

There are some Arthur Dyer records in the Irish Prison Registers 1790-1924 on FMP. Mountjoy Prison, County Dublin. (Also a couple of entries for Arthur O Dyer.) But I can't find a way to narrow it down by year, to see whether it could be the same Arthur, without paying to view.

[kiterunner]

Okay, went on FamilySearch and it does look to be the same Arthur as it says born 1898, but the record date is 1916 so not likely to help in confirming that he is the father of William Thomas, nor in finding out his wife's name.

[JBee]

Not sure if this is right part of Ireland for you - but you can get a photocopy for 4 euro emailed to you.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Apply-for-Certificates.aspx

You have to download the form and post it I'm told - haven't done it yet. There's also a tickbox for it to be emailed.

[kiterunner]

Oh well done, Julie! They seem to hide that information within their site!

[Margaret in Burton]

Thanks Julie

I can't see a box to tick where it says please tick the box if you want it emailed to you.

[kiterunner]

Thanks Julie

I can't see a box to tick where it says please tick the box if you want it emailed to you.

Just at the end of Section 1, Marg.

[Margaret in Burton]

Just at the end of Section 1, Marg.

See it now thank you. Will get that.

[Margaret in Burton]

I'll apply for an email copy of the birth and of what we think is his parents marriage.

Thanks for the help.

[Margaret in Burton]

Not sure if this is right part of Ireland for you - but you can get a photocopy for 4 euro emailed to you.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Apply-for-Certificates.aspx

You have to download the form and post it I'm told - haven't done it yet. There's also a tickbox for it to be emailed.

Is this the correct place for births and marriages in Dublin? My knowledge of Ireland is zilch.

[JBee]

Don't know but looking at the link

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Apply...tificates.aspx

it has ie at the end of the line which I think is the republic so would cover Dublin.

[Margaret in Burton]

Don't know but looking at the link

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Apply...tificates.aspx

it has ie at the end of the line which I think is the republic so would cover Dublin.

Well, I've filled out what I can. Put a covering letter in saying that I needed them for family history purposes and wanted the photocopies emailed to me, but I also tick the boxes for that. Plus I said that I hoped I'd sent them to the right office.
My daughter will take it to the post office for me when she goes. They are few and far between, none within easy walking distance.

[kiterunner]

Yes, it is the right one for Dublin.

[Margaret in Burton]

Fingers crossed then for the results. I wonder how long it will take, that depends on when my daughter next goes to the post office, probably Monday.

[Margaret in Burton]

I've received the photocopies of the birth and marriage.

Birth
William Thomas Dyer born 3 June 1924

Parents Arthur Dyer a labourer of 40 Mountjoy Sq, Dublin and Frances Dyer formerly Bushe.

Marriage
15 Oct 1923 ProCathedral (Roman Catholic) Dublin

Arthur Dyer a minor married Frances Bushe, also a minor.
He was a labourer of 53 Lower Dominick St, Dublin, father Thomas Dyer a labourer
She was of 49 Mountjoy Sq, Dublin. Father Edward Bushe a packer.

Witnesses were Michael G Murphy, Michael McCullagh and Margaret Doyle.

Oh I do wish English certs were sent like this.

[JBee]

That's great Marg - I haven't sent for mine yet.

[Margaret in Burton]

That's great Marg - I haven't sent for mine yet.

Didn't take too long either. 8 working days from when it was posted to Ireland.