The 1939 Register - findmypast [Archive] - Genealogists' Forum

Margaret in Burton

27-03-14, 15:28

That's interesting, Marg, thanks for posting it.

I thought that if you ordered a copy of the entry for a particular household, they would not give you details of anyone who was still alive now, so will they be included in FMP's release, or do they have to go through it all removing all the living people?

It would be an impossible task to remove all living people surely. Think of the research involved in doing that. Interesting that they are releasing this, obviously no 100 year rule was involved.

kiterunner

27-03-14, 15:29

Langley Vale Sue

27-03-14, 16:59

So why the difference between allowing living people on the electoral rolls and phone books etc. online and not allowing them on the 1939 register online?

kiterunner

27-03-14, 17:05

I suppose they consider the information on the 1939 Register to be more sensitive (for instance, date of birth), plus you get the chance to opt out of being listed in the public electoral register and phone book.

There is some information about what data is included on here:
http://www.hscic.gov.uk/register-service

Langley Vale Sue

27-03-14, 17:18

You have only been able to opt out of one type of published electoral roll for a few years (this century I think) and only phone books if you are ex-directory, so earlier records are readily available. Granted the ERs don't give a date of birth, but the age range is usually available and it doesn't take much to find BMD details of individuals. As far as I can tell the only detail which would be harder to find would be the occupation of the individual and there mustbe a way to find that out if you know where to look.

Surely to remove details of current living persons would require constantly updated worldwide death records, especially given the number of war brides and other post war emigrants.

Phoenix

27-03-14, 17:53

Wow!

Best mate will be thrilled to bits. Her grandmother reinvented herself with new Christian names and there doesn'r seem to be an electoral roll surviving to be sure of her address. If we can get either a correct place of birth or a date of birth which matches with the person we think she is, we can have confidence in the rest of the research.

Kit

28-03-14, 07:22

Okay, I can answer my own question, as according to Chris Paton's blog, "information about living individuals will be kept closed for 100 years from their year of birth, or until proof of death has been authenticated."

B*gger my grandma wont be found as she didn't die in the UK.

I know her details but would have liked to see her on there.

Merry

28-03-14, 09:08

Are we saying that people listed as aged 25 or under in 1939 will not be included in the release, but all those listed as 26 or over will be?

kiterunner

28-03-14, 10:26

Are we saying that people listed as aged 25 or under in 1939 will not be included in the release, but all those listed as 26 or over will be?

Apparently so, but it seems there is some kind of process whereby people who were under 25 in 1939 but are known to have died since then can / will be included. But I don't know what the details of this are, whether it will work like it does now when you order a copy of an entry and you have to provide evidence of deaths to see the individual entries for people, or if there will be a team of people going through the entries and checking who has died, for which they would presumably need access to the NHS Registration Books (the National Register numbers were used as NHS numbers when the NHS was set up, and so it is possible to link people on the 1939 Register with the NHS registrations which show whether someone has died - though I guess if they emigrated, or were not identified when they died, their death might not be on the system.) Maybe the NHS are going to provide FMP with just the registration numbers of those who are marked as deceased on their system and then FMP can run those numbers against the 1939 register?

annswabey

28-03-14, 15:15

I emailed FMP yesterday about how it was going to work in regard to the 100 year rule - no reply as yet.

Nell

29-03-14, 11:13

Keep us posted, Ann! Potentially this could solve a few mysteries for me.

Shona

31-03-14, 14:44

Is it all of the UK or just England and Wales?

I know that you can request this info already and it is a lot cheaper to get the record of someone who was in Scotland in 1939 than someone who was living in England - about a quarter of the price. I also think that the Scottish version of the register is viewable at the Scotland's People centre in Edinburgh.

kiterunner

31-03-14, 15:15

This is the information on how to order an extract from the Scottish Register (only if the person is deceased):
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/national-health-service-central-register/about-the-register/1939-national-id-register.html

According to Chris Paton's blog, the Findmypast database will just cover England and Wales.

kiterunner

13-03-15, 09:50

I got an email with an update on their progress:

So far we've:

Safely conserved more than 3300 volumes
Scanned over 487,000 images
Transcribed over 31,000 names

Their website says there are 7,000 volumes and 40,000,000 entries, so it looks as though they still have a long way to go. I wonder whether they will launch county by county or wait till it is complete?

Phoenix

13-03-15, 12:16

As I'm looking for London, I can't imagine it will make much difference to me. Best Mate needs to know her granny's birthplace. We have her in 1911, but as a lodger. Fairly sure we know who she is, but she completely re-invented herself on arrival in London.

Kit

18-03-15, 00:22

Looking at their website anyone born within the last 100 years will not be viewable and they will regularly update this as time goes on.

That means I wont see my grandparents for a while, which is sad as Grandma died over 40 years ago.

kiterunner

22-10-15, 19:09

The BBC is reporting that the 1939 Register is expected to be released next month.

Olde Crone

22-10-15, 19:44

I have read that they will be using pension records and NI numbers to estabish who has died. Can't see it myself. Why would the government make that information available to a commercial company?

Sadly, I can't join in the excitement over this release as I doubt it will tell me anything I don't already know - all my mysteries are much further back than 1939. Looking forward to hearing about other people's brick walls falling over, though.

OC

kiterunner

22-10-15, 21:53

The BBC News report just says that "In addition, not everyone's details will be released. Those who featured in the 1939 register but who are younger than 100 today will have entries relating to them redacted. This applies unless it's proved that they have died, by researchers cross-referring with births, deaths and marriages data."

I assume the "researchers" mentioned are people doing their own family trees, not the FMP employees who are putting the database online. So you would need to prove that someone born less than 100 years ago is dead before you can see their records.

Margaret in Burton

23-10-15, 08:42

kiterunner

23-10-15, 08:46

There doesn't seem to be any "Findmypast Fridays" release this week. Does that mean they're working flat out on the 1939 Register?

Kit

23-10-15, 12:31

There doesn't seem to be any "Findmypast Fridays" release this week. Does that mean they're working flat out on the 1939 Register?

I've been wondering about the FMP Friday release too. I hope you are right about the 1939 register, although I want to see my grandparents and they didn't die in the UK so they wont be there. :(

My great grandparents will be though so that is exciting. Depending when in 1939 the register was taken I might see a redacted line for my grandma with her parents. Not sure what my Grandad was doing that year.

ooh, ooh, ooh. Just worked out Grandma would have been 100 last year so she will be there. :d

kiterunner

23-10-15, 13:10

Someone asked them why no "Findmypast Fridays" today on Facebook, and they replied: "We haven’t updated any new Friday records today but we have some exciting news early next week. More records are coming, so watch this space…"

Margaret in Burton

23-10-15, 15:39

Any bets on whether the site will crash when the 1939 register goes live through sheer volume of traffic?

anne fraser

23-10-15, 16:16

I am still waiting for the Somerset and Gloucestershire school records. I think I might have to wait some time. I know where my grandparents were in 1939 so I am not expecting any suprises.

maggie_4_7

23-10-15, 16:27

I am excited about this but I don't think it will help me much.

My mother and father were born 1921 and 1919 respectively. So neither will be on there for two reasons Mother or Father isn't 100 years old yet and Father was born and lived in Scotland and all my Scottish family would have been too. My close English family I pretty much know about them and where they were.

But there might be some nuggets in there that I haven't hought about.

I did actually buy my mothers a few years back when I proved my relationship and that she had died.didn't give me much detail to be honest.

Merry

24-10-15, 09:06

So you would need to prove that someone born less than 100 years ago is dead before you can see their records.

I wonder how much proof they would need? Imagine providing a death cert for a John Smith who was on the 1939 register aged 20 (for instance) So, you show them a death cert for someone the right age - do they care if it belongs to the right person? Maybe it's like when the MoD ask for 'proof' of a person's death before they let you see army records?!

Kit

24-10-15, 10:24

Any bets on whether the site will crash when the 1939 register goes live through sheer volume of traffic?

There are bonuses for being downunder. Less likelihood of crashing. :)

I wonder how much proof they would need? Imagine providing a death cert for a John Smith who was on the 1939 register aged 20 (for instance) So, you show them a death cert for someone the right age - do they care if it belongs to the right person? Maybe it's like when the MoD ask for 'proof' of a person's death before they let you see army records?!

I've wondered, too, what they would need. I have my grandparents Aussie death certs so could prove they are dead but is that enough.

To my shame I got grandma's year of birth wrong so she wont be there when the records are released.

Merry

26-10-15, 08:16

The late Oct Lost Cousins newsletter says:

There has been some concern that the only records available will be those for people who would be over 100 years old, if still alive, as this cut-off point has been used for other releases.

However, because the 1939 Register was subsequently used as the basis for the National Health Service Central Register it continued to be updated into the 1990s (at which point it was computerised); this means that we should also be able to see the records for most people who were born after 1915, but died before the 1990s.

kiterunner

26-10-15, 08:59

Yes, but we don't know whether FMP have been given the death information from those updates.

JBee

26-10-15, 09:00

Or how many people have subsequently emigrated!!

Phoenix

26-10-15, 15:19

Yes, but we don't know whether FMP have been given the death information from those updates.

If these were working records, presumably date of death would be written on them, with possibly a strikeout line? Like DD in the Navy.

kiterunner

26-10-15, 16:27

I think what we are getting is the form that was filled in for each household, but surely the information was then copied on to index cards of some kind, and it would be those that were kept updated?

ElizabethHerts

27-10-15, 14:14

We always want our members to be the first to hear our marvellous news, and today I’m delighted to let you know that on Monday 2nd November 2015, the 1939 Register will be made available online for the very first time, only on Findmypast.

Simply put, it’s the most comprehensive survey ever recorded of the civil population of England and Wales. With the lives of 41 million people captured in one day in September 1939, it’s a fascinating snapshot of a nation on the eve of war.

The 1939 Register contains the names, addresses and occupations of everyone in England and Wales at the time, and was used as the basis for rationing, identity cards and, in post-war Britain, the NHS.

You’ll be able to discover unique insights into where your family was and what they were doing when the register was taken at the outbreak of World War II, and we cannot wait to make this monumental collection available to you.

Guinevere

27-10-15, 14:15

1939 register on FMP on Monday. :) *dances*

BlueSavannah

27-10-15, 14:43

I was really excited to receive the email with the launch date.....and then I saw the fees to view records...ouch! I knew they were charging members with subs to still view records but I didn't realise how expensive they would be. Sadly I won't be able to view anything soon :(

kiterunner

27-10-15, 15:18

Huh, I haven't had an email, although I have an FMP sub and I registered my email address to be sent updates on the project.

So, could someone who has had an email please tell the rest of us the prices?

Merry

27-10-15, 15:19

I've not had an email either and I've just been searching for some post somewhere giving the charging details, but found nothing!

BlueSavannah

27-10-15, 15:20

£6.95 per household or £24.95 for 5 households. My email said I would be receiving a code shortly for a 10% discount off the 5 household price (not that it makes it any more affordable for me).

Merry

27-10-15, 15:23

Hmmm, well, I don't have anybody where I need to see the record to solve a problem, so I doubt I'll be bothering with this on Monday.

GenieDi

27-10-15, 15:28

Had emails have you seen the pricing?

Records will be available to purchase for £6.95 per household or £24.95 for our 5 household bundle (£4.99 per household).

As an early 1939 signup, we will send you an exclusive code soon which will entitle you to 10% off our 5 household bundle.

kiterunner

27-10-15, 15:49

Thanks for the info, and ouch!

The only household I really want to see is my great-uncle's, to get a date of birth for his second wife, in the hope it will help me trace her before their marriage. I would be interested to see whether my grandmother put down her real date of birth, or if she had already knocked a couple of years off her age by then, but not interested enough to pay that much money!

Merry

27-10-15, 16:27

I would be interested to see whether my grandmother put down her real date of birth, or if she had already knocked a couple of years off her age by then

Snap! (four years in my grandmother's case), but I agree - not worth the money for sheer nosiness.

Shona

27-10-15, 16:43

Remember, it's only the register for England and Wales which will be available online.

I agree, the costs are steep, but to get a copy of an entry on the Scottish version is (last time I checked) £15 per person. You need to know the date of death of the person, as well. Don't think that the Northern Ireland register is available.

Glen TK

27-10-15, 17:01

I genuinely hope it backfires on them in a very big way. Given that current subscribers pay around £80-£90 per year and they are offering £1 per month deals it doesn't pay to be loyal and pay up front. Adding in the free weekends, all too regular crashes and general downtime I reckon my contribution during my current sub could have been bought for about 83 pence.

There are a few I could look at but like others it's more "filler" material rather than breakthrough information, my brickwall still centres around details I can only find in the 1921 census.

Margaret in Burton

27-10-15, 17:26

I will probably just look for Peter Henry Harrison. We really don't know his date of birth and apparently it should be on there. I do know where he was living though.

Merry

27-10-15, 17:35

It will be worth it to see his record, Marg! *crosses everything*

Phoenix

27-10-15, 17:53

If I can find a dob for Lillian Grace Eleanor Mason to prove she is who we think she is, it will be money well spent. For the rest, frankly even the 1901 had very little I didn't know.

kiterunner

27-10-15, 17:55

Remembering when the 1911 census was originally released, it was possible to obtain quite a bit of information from the free search if you persevered with trying different searches, narrowing down parameters, and so on, to see how many matches there were for each search. Maybe it will be possible to do something similar with this.

kiterunner

27-10-15, 18:31

I see they say that one reason for the cost of viewing a record is the following:

In addition, unlocking a household in the 1939 Register doesn’t just grant you access to a record and image. In this, our richest record set ever, when you unlock a household you will also unlock rich, exclusive content giving you an insight into the world of 1939.

Maps will demonstrate how local areas have changed, never-before-online photos related to the individual’s life will add context to their record, we’ll use the numbers in the Register to show a breakdown of the local area, and local and national newspapers will bring 1939 to life like never before.

I very much doubt that I will be interested in any of those extras, though. "Photos related to the individual's life" are not going to be photos of that person or their family!

kiterunner

27-10-15, 18:41

It looks as though you will probably be able to use FMP credits to view the 1939 Register, rather than it being a separate system - 60 credits to view one household, or 300 to view 5. The costs they are quoting are the same as the FMP Pay as You Go prices for those numbers of credits.

kiterunner

27-10-15, 18:45

kiterunner

27-10-15, 18:50

Another interesting answer from FMP on Facebook:

Yes, the option to search by date of birth is there along with preview information that will help you to confirm you've found the correct person

(The "preview" information is shown before you pay to view the record.) So I am hoping this means you can narrow down the date of birth in your free searches to see whether there is a match, and thus find out the exact date of birth without having to pay to view.

kiterunner

27-10-15, 19:07

Another nugget I have gleaned from reading the FMP responses to comments on their blog post is that annual subscribers to FMP will get a one-use code for a 25% discount on the purchase of 300 credits, although it can't be used in conjuction with the 10% discount on the same purchase. I haven't had an email about that either. But anyway, that would make the cost approx. £18.71 to view 5 households, by my calculations.

Merry

27-10-15, 19:41

In addition, unlocking a household in the 1939 Register doesn’t just grant you access to a record and image. In this, our richest record set ever, when you unlock a household you will also unlock rich, exclusive content giving you an insight into the world of 1939.

Maps will demonstrate how local areas have changed, never-before-online photos related to the individual’s life will add context to their record, we’ll use the numbers in the Register to show a breakdown of the local area, and local and national newspapers will bring 1939 to life like never before.

I can see a lot of people misunderstanding the above! And surely the local and national newspapers part refers to the same papers we have access to now? (or are they saying if you pay with credits for the 1839 register and don't have a sub, you will still get to see some newspaper content?

Glen TK

27-10-15, 20:16

Well the newspaper coverage for 1939 leaves a lot to be desired on FMP and is part of the UK sub.

Kit

27-10-15, 22:57

Pricing
Records will be available to purchase for £6.95 per household or £24.95 for our 5 household bundle (£4.99 per household).
As an early 1939 signup, we will send you an exclusive code soon which will entitle you to 10% off our 5 household bundle.

Does that apply to FMP members? Or pay per view people?

Sorry, just realised that has been mentioned above? So given I can not afford this at the moment will be become part of the real sub at some point in the future?

Olde Crone

28-10-15, 08:40

As I have no need to see the register, I can be objective about the cost.

If I were desperate to see it, then nearly £7 wouldn't stop me. I might mutter about having to pay it, but pay it I would, just as I stump up for bmd certificates, wills and so on. You pays yer money and yer takes yer choice.

FMP have to recoup their costs and have to make a profit. They are a business, not a charitable institution. No doubt the cost will come down once they have covered their outlay - any further revenue will then be profit. An excellent business principle.

The "high" cost also makes it more likely that there won't be a mad rush on Monday, lol, meaning they won't have the inconvenience of the site crashing. Another excellent business principle.

OC

kiterunner

28-10-15, 09:04

Maybe, but won't a lot of people be using the free search on Monday?

Olde Crone

28-10-15, 09:54

Perhaps they will, if they have worked out they can do a free search. Not everyone will know that. (Non-FMP members I mean).

OC

Merry

28-10-15, 11:06

But how many people will actually be desperate to view? There will be some people of course, but I think the numbers needing several families will be few and far between, especially as place of birth was not a requirement. I think a lot more people needed the 1911 census when that came out (and we paid per image).

JayG

28-10-15, 12:04

I'm not desperate to view it but will wait until Monday & see what information the 'free search' produces before I decide whether to view anything.

I've got 700 odd credits that don't get used due to having a sub so i'm hoping I can use some of them.

In my direct line I have all 4 grandparents, 5 great grandparents & 6 great great grandparents, they will be 10 households at the most. The cost of paying FMP for those records is far less what it would be to the NHS.

JayG

28-10-15, 12:14

Just read a post on FB that the preview transcription will contain name, place of residence, county, year of birth & number of people present in the household.

I'm guessing it will be possible to 'build' a household based on different search criteria .

maggie_4_7

28-10-15, 13:35

FMP have answered a question on Facebook thus:

To unlock the record of someone who has died, we'll require a death certificate. There will be more information surrounding this process when the site launches on Monday

I think I had to prove my mother had died but I don't remember emailing death cert I am sure I emailed just the date she died.

I must go back and check.

maggie_4_7

28-10-15, 13:42

ElizabethHerts

28-10-15, 13:55

I'm not overly excited about it. I have a fair idea where my parents and grandparents will be. I assume my Mum will be living at Guildford but driving up to London to university every day. My father's family could be more interesting as I don't know what year they moved from Liverpool to Farnham. My father did his first year at uni in Liverpool but transferred to London when they moved, so it could be about this time.

I'll try the free search but it's not going to solve any big mystery for me.

JayG

28-10-15, 17:05

FMP have added some info on searching & what the screens look like here

https://blog.findmypast.co.uk/how-to-search-the-1939-register-1426317472.html#how-to-search-the-1939-register-1426317472.html

Merry

28-10-15, 17:10

Thanks Jay :)

kiterunner

28-10-15, 17:10

Nice.

Margaret in Burton

28-10-15, 17:25

It will be worth it to see his record, Marg! *crosses everything*

Well, knowing what we know about PHH already, he probably lied about that. Ha ha

Kit

29-10-15, 01:40

I like their free search information. It is more useful than an normal FMP search.

Merry

29-10-15, 07:04

All this talk of proving someone is dead in order to see their entry - what about living people who are on the 1939 register and want to see their own entry?

kiterunner

29-10-15, 09:23

There is going to be a system for them to order their own records, Merry, but FMP aren't giving exact details out till Monday.

James18

29-10-15, 09:26

I got an e-mail about this last night and thought it sounded great, but had no idea you'd have to pay to view every individual household. Luckily there aren't too many I'd be interested in viewing as it only covers England & Wales.

I wonder when these records will be made available on a default FMP or Ancestry subscription. I realize these companies have to make a profit, but it does seem expensive.

Still, it definitely sounds interesting. My £1 sub ran out yesterday of all days (!) and so I am back on a free account now. How much are pay-per-view household searches for the 1939 Register, for those without a sub?

James18

29-10-15, 09:35

I will probably just look for Peter Henry Harrison. We really don't know his date of birth and apparently it should be on there. I do know where he was living though.
Who's that?

Also, it's a great shame that the 1931 census was destroyed, as that would have been of huge interest to me. Sadly my grandfather was abroad 37-41 so he won't be on the 39 Register, although his family's household should be. I can't wait to see that.

kiterunner

29-10-15, 09:55

I wonder when these records will be made available on a default FMP or Ancestry subscription. I realize these companies have to make a profit, but it does seem expensive. Ancestry won't have access to it for years because FMP's contract gives them exclusive rights for a long time.

How much are pay-per-view household searches for the 1939 Register, for those without a sub? The searches are free; you will only need to pay to "unlock" the records, i.e. view an image and get a load of associated guff. The prices for that will be based on FMP's "credits" system - £6.95 for 60 credits which gives you one household, or £24.95 for 300 credits which gives you 5 households.

FMP have said the records will be available to view in the TNA Reading Room but have not yet said whether they will be free there (or at least, I haven't seen anything saying that yet. In fact, every time someone asks if it will be available free at Kew, they answer yes, it will be available there without saying whether it will be free!) When the 1911 census was first released, they had a programme of free access at various local record offices for a limited time, but it worked on a credits basis and the credits got used up much quicker than expected. Anyway, I wonder whether they will be doing something similar for this database?

Another thing I have spotted in FMP's official answers to questions on their Facebook page and their blog is that they are saying that people who died before 1991 will appear in the records without researchers having to supply a death certificate. This may not apply to people who died abroad though.

James18

29-10-15, 10:04

Thank you, Kate. Very informative as ever. :)

kiterunner

29-10-15, 10:06

An interesting comment in the replies to their blog post:

I note that the your terms & conditions were updated in September 2015. The pertinant section for subscribers is headed "Changes to the website or records". This reads:-

We reserve the right to make changes to the website, including the records and services we offer, without notice; however, we always plan to replace any content you have paid for with a comparable substitute. As a subscriber, you will generally get a lot of new records added to your subscription at no extra cost during the period of your subscription (at our discretion). If we launch a major new collection, on rare occasions this may be charged for separately. We reserve the right to change pricing, make special offers to groups or individuals, or change the number of PayAsYouGo credits charged to view a record.

But, looking through archived copies of the T & C page on the Internet Archive wayback machine, the part about major new collections being charged for separately has been in there for more than a year, although the wording used to be different.

Merry

29-10-15, 13:01

Who's that?

lol he is Marg's OH's grandfather (I hope that's right!). She has spent years trying to work out where he came from and who his parents are, to no avail so far! Just do a search for him on these boards and you will see!

James18

29-10-15, 14:42

lol he is Marg's OH's grandfather (I hope that's right!). She has spent years trying to work out where he came from and who his parents are, to no avail so far! Just do a search for him on these boards and you will see!
Interesting! I wonder why he never wanted to talk about his upbringing and origins. Very mysterious. Mind you, my grandfather never did, but it turned out a number of his siblings had died young, so perhaps the same was true of Peter? It does seem to have often been the case that when a family had several deaths - especially in the Great War - that surviving family members never discussed it.

Could be one possible avenue of research, anyway.

Margaret in Burton

29-10-15, 15:21

Interesting! I wonder why he never wanted to talk about his upbringing and origins. Very mysterious. Mind you, my grandfather never did, but it turned out a number of his siblings had died young, so perhaps the same was true of Peter? It does seem to have often been the case that when a family had several deaths - especially in the Great War - that surviving family members never discussed it.

Could be one possible avenue of research, anyway.

James

The only census he appears on is 1911 where he says he was born in Rotherham in 1885. Trouble is there are no births anywhere that fit him and any that are slightly a maybe can be brought forward to prove it isn't him. His WW1 army record has been 'weeded' ( army terminology) it noted he had joined the army in 1903 and where he went but next of kin was listed as his wife who he married in 1908, he was called up for the war.
I've been researching him for 30 years and so have most members of this forum. Lol.

He lied in other words. When asked about his parentage on his death bed he just said, you don't want to know. He covered his tracks well.

James18

29-10-15, 15:23

James

The only census he appears on is 1911 where he says he was born in Rotherham in 1885. Trouble is there are no births anywhere that fit him and any that are slightly a maybe can be brought forward to prove it isn't him. His WW1 army record has been 'weeded' ( army terminology) it noted he had joined the army in 1903 and where he went but next of kin was listed as his wife who he married in 1908, he was called up for the war.
I've been researching him for 30 years and so have most members of this forum. Lol.

He lied in other words. When asked about his parentage on his death bed he just said, you don't want to know. He covered his tracks well.
Haha, what an absolute character. It's a shame you will probably now never know for sure, but I wish you the best of luck in further narrowing down your search.

I wonder why he felt such disdain for his roots. He must have really hated his family. :o

Margaret in Burton

29-10-15, 15:40

Haha, what an absolute character. It's a shame you will probably now never know for sure, but I wish you the best of luck in further narrowing down your search.

I wonder why he felt such disdain for his roots. He must have really hated his family. :o

One school of thought is that perhaps he was a foundling. His comments also were I wasn't wanted. Either that or he was in some sort of trouble and changed his name.

James18

29-10-15, 15:48

One school of thought is that perhaps he was a foundling. His comments also were I wasn't wanted. Either that or he was in some sort of trouble and changed his name.
Yes, very possible. I've sent you a PM about this anyway, so as we don't drag this thread too off-topic.

Shona

29-10-15, 15:50

Let's hope the register gives you a clue to the elusive PHH, Marg. We managed to break down Merry's John Claude Hamilton brick wall a little while back, so hopefully you will find the nugget of info you need. Let us know what you find out. But I suspect he may well have fibbed!

James18

29-10-15, 16:05

I dare say it'll happen eventually. Some of you guys and girls are very, very good at this -- time brings experience I suppose. I was amazed that the Ellen French / Smith riddle got solved, as I'd never have figured that out on my own.

You definitely provide a service, and it is appreciated.

kiterunner

29-10-15, 22:48

I have just broken a solemn oath I once took never to take part in or watch anything called a "webinar", and registered for the one Findmypast First are offering at 3 p.m. tomorrow about the 1939 Register.

James18

29-10-15, 23:34

Oath-breaker!!!

Janet

30-10-15, 00:23

Chris in Sussex

30-10-15, 06:52

Kite

As I do 'do' webinars can you let me in on the secret as to where to sign up?

I just cannot find anything about it on FMP.

Thanks
Chris

kiterunner

30-10-15, 08:44

As I do 'do' webinars can you let me in on the secret as to where to sign up?
I just cannot find anything about it on FMP.

It's a Findmypast First thing, Chris; you have to have an annual sub to qualify.

Unfortunately they have managed to mess up the "Findmypast First" web page by putting a blank popup over it, so you need to click on the "X" in the top right-hand corner before you can see anything:
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/first

Then click on the "Monthly Webinar".

Chris in Sussex

30-10-15, 10:08

Thanks Kite

I do have an annual sub but I don't seem to be getting the emails, must chase up my 25% discount!

Glad it is not just me who gets that annoying blank 'extra' page.

Thanks again
Chris

Edit....And now they are having 'Technical difficulties' Grrrrrrr

kiterunner

30-10-15, 10:23

I haven't had the emails either, Chris. I have sent an email to "First Support" asking for my discount codes but no reply yet.

Margaret in Burton

30-10-15, 10:38

I've received my discount codes. One a 10% the other a 25%

JayG

30-10-15, 10:59

I've had 3 emails with 3 codes for discount. One from FMP with 25%, one from 1939 with 10% & one from GR with 10%.

I already have enough credits to view 12 households, a good chunk of these credits have been freebies.

Mary from Italy

30-10-15, 11:31

That's interesting; I'd never even heard of FMP First! They don't seem to be advertising it much.

James18

30-10-15, 11:35

JayG,

How do you get free credits with FMP?

kiterunner

30-10-15, 14:02

Never mind; it turns out the webinar is about the Electoral Registers. I got the wrong end of the stick because it was supposed to be about a database due to be released, not one that had already been released. Sorry to have misled people.

kiterunner

30-10-15, 16:58

Living people (under the age of 100) who want to see their own record will have to submit a "subject access request". General information about it is on the link below, but more details of how to do it for this specific database will be available on Monday, according to FMP.

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-data-protection/principle-6-rights/subject-access-request/

kiterunner

30-10-15, 19:05

kiterunner

30-10-15, 19:19

TNA have confirmed it will be free to view in their Reading Rooms at Kew:
http://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk/blog/1939-register-census-census/

James18

30-10-15, 19:42

Thanks for the updates, Kate. :)

Merry

31-10-15, 07:38

I have finally received an email telling me about the 1939 Register! It's from Genes Reunited. I have to say, I would be pretty confused by it if I were a GR subscriber and didn't use FMP, as it says things like "How do I search the register? From Monday 2nd November, it will be free to search the register and to preview the transcript that includes the person’s name, year of birth, town and county of residence."

without mentioning that it will be on Findmypast, not Genes Reunited! It is signed "The Genes Reunited Team".

I must have received an updated version of that email, as it's now headed up:

The 1939 Register from Findmypast - Just three days to go

and the first sentence says:

There are just three days left until the launch of the 1939 Register, available online for the very first time - only on Findmypast.

Of course it's only two days to go now, but they did send me this yesterday shortly before midnight!

Nell

01-11-15, 09:41

Thanks for the info, KR.

I think I shall wait until I visit Kew again, by which time the rush will be over and it's less likely to crash. After all, most of the people I want to know about will either be excluded as they are still alive and under 100 OR already dead. The only people I know for definite will be there are my maternal grandparents and I already know where they were and what they were doing in 1939!
If it was cheaper I'd look speculatively for people not directly in my line of descent, but I'm not that rich or curious!

Tom Tom

01-11-15, 18:28

My Grandad was born in 1928 and lived in th East End. He was evacuated at the start of September 1939. I think I am right in saying the 1939 register was taken on the 29th September.
My question is, would he be listed in his parents' household, or the house he had been evacuated to?

kiterunner

01-11-15, 19:12

There is a post on the Rootschat thread which (I think) says he would be listed at the address he was evacuated to, Tom:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=730024.99
(reply #100)

Tom Tom

01-11-15, 19:36

Thanks Kate.

Kit

01-11-15, 19:43

When and where do we search?

FMP is running slowly now but I haven't been able to find out where to look.

kiterunner

01-11-15, 21:34

You probably need to wait until it is some time into the 2nd November in the UK, Toni. At the moment it is still the 1st here.

Just Gillian

01-11-15, 21:59

I just went on to the payment page to see whether FMP accepted Paypal and Firefox tells me the connection is not secure, technical details: page only partially encrypted.

kiterunner

01-11-15, 22:04

Findmypast doesn't accept Paypal, only a debit or credit card.

Just Gillian

01-11-15, 22:08

So I saw Kite. I have some expired credits on there which I could reactivate but I'm not going to risk purchasing until I can be sure the payment page is secure.

kiterunner

01-11-15, 22:14

Do you not get an option to view only the encrypted part of the page, Gillian?

Just Gillian

01-11-15, 22:21

Just went back and checked Kate and no, I don't.

I just have an exclamation mark where the padlock would normally appear and clicking on that gave me the explanation I posted above but no options.

kiterunner

01-11-15, 22:25

I know I have had the option on a certain site before, but unfortunately I can't remember which site or which browser to check it out.

Just Gillian

01-11-15, 22:33

Hopefully it is only a temporary problem.

I've had these credits sitting there for years now. They are reactivated every time I buy an odd month's sub, but only for the duration of the sub. The 1939 Register seems the perfect opportunity to use them at last.

kiterunner

01-11-15, 22:39

It looks as though you may need to do something with Firefox's "mixed content" settings. There is some info on here:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-do-i-tell-if-my-connection-is-secure
and more on here:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/mixed-content-blocking-firefox

Just Gillian

01-11-15, 22:50

Thanks for looking into that Kate.

I've had a quick skim through those links but will read it all more thoroughly in the morning when I'm fresh.

The payment page for FMP on IE doesn't seem to have a padlock either, but it's so long since I used IE that perhaps they don't even have the padlock security indicator on there nowadays.

James18

01-11-15, 23:11

Do we know what time the 1939 Register goes live? Was it at midnight, or will it probably be sometime in the day? (I assume so)

Also, where are FMP credits stored? Can you accumulate them over time, or is it simply a case of having to buy them?

James18

02-11-15, 00:00

Well, it's apparently up, but when I try address search for:

Leopold Road
Reading C.B.
Berkshire
England

...it gives me 'Sorry, an error occurred while processing your request'

Probably too many people trying to search?

Mary from Italy

02-11-15, 00:02

Ooh, it's gone live.

When I tried to get into FMP the usual way through the main page I got an error message, but using a bookmarked link to the newspaper part of the site I was able to get in and then click on the link to the 1939 register.

I've only done a free search so far, but it's working fine. You get a preview to show how many other people are in the household with the one you searched for, and it says whether the other people are viewable or not (presumably depending on their age).

Mary from Italy

02-11-15, 00:03

Direct link to the 1939 Register:

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/Register1939?_ga=1.121785806.498576049.1445689441

James18

02-11-15, 00:04

I can't get it to work, but it's probably sever strain or something.

It either gives me a 404 or tells me no one is found.

Mary from Italy

02-11-15, 00:19

I'm getting a lot of error messages, but the name search is working OK; if you get an error message just repeat the search, and it usually works the second time. The server's no doubt overloaded.

I tried the address search with no name, and it only seems to work if you don't add the house number. You then get a long list of house numbers to click in, which I didn't bother with because my people came up on the name search.

James18

02-11-15, 00:25

Hmm, well I found the house I was after, but it says 3 more people to view (fine) and 4 who are officially closed... that's strange, as I am trying to think who they'd be. If it's just the 100 year thing being automatically applied then I understand, but 2 of the people who I am pretty sure will be closed were dead by 1991 (the end of the record updates) and so I wonder why this would be the case.

Unless there's a surprise there (such as a visitor) I am pretty sure all 8 people should be viewable.

EDIT:

So, if you know someone is dead but they're closed on the 1939 Register, you have to buy a death certificate for them and send it to TNA, along with £25?

That is absolutely obscene.

Mary from Italy

02-11-15, 00:31

Well that's very weird. Only the second search I've tried and there's a mystery already. I wasn't intending to spend anything, but I'm very tempted now...

Two of my grandma's unmarried sisters are living together in Leicester; the surprise is that the name of the household isn't theirs, but the surname of the future husband of one of them. But they didn't get married till 3 years later :confused:

Her future husband isn't listed at that address; he's miles away in his home town, probably living with his parents. So maybe one of his sisters was the head of the household. How irritating. I'll try searching for his 6 sisters to see if anything turns up.

James18

02-11-15, 01:02

Well, looking at this, there are simply too many closed records for this to be worth spending money on. I thought more research would have been done, and so more records made available. Using the free search, I've been able to work out that several people who have been dead for years and years are apparently locked, including a cousin of my mother's who died in 1946.

Very disappointing. :(

Asa

02-11-15, 05:45

Wonderful stuff. I'm not intending to spend too much but have got a birth date for my great grandfather at last! Very happy with that.

Merry

02-11-15, 06:00

Well, as a start I've looked for all four of my grandparents and got no correct results for any of them. No more time now, so will have another try later.

Guinevere

02-11-15, 06:02

Found most of the ones I wanted but haven't downloaded all of them. 'imself's mum isn't where I expected her to be, she was born in 1917 so would be "closed". But the only "closed" record with her uncle and aunt is likely to be her younger brother.

So she was probably at training college.

Merry

02-11-15, 06:21

Found two of four grandparents now.

Does anyone know if people in mental institutions were included?

ElizabethHerts

02-11-15, 06:56

I've found my maternal grandmother where she should have been in Guildford but a search for my grandfather didn't show him.

ElizabethHerts

02-11-15, 07:00

My paternal grandparents had already moved south from Liverpool to Farnham, Surrey.

kiterunner

02-11-15, 07:04

The "Birthday" search fields are DD MM, both numeric, in case anyone is wondering. And you can put in month number without a day.

FenTiger

02-11-15, 07:13

Merry

I have just searched for my Great Grandmother who was placed in Fulbourn Mental Hospital during the first world war, (and died in there - 1950)I entered her exact date of birth, Fulbourn, Cambridgeshire and YES Gertrude appeared at Chesterton Cambs, so it would seem that Fulbourn is available.

Merry

02-11-15, 07:16

Thanks FenTiger - so that's potentially another person I can't find! lol (My g-grandmother was placed in an asylum when her husband died in 1921 and died in the same institution in 1942)

For once in their lives OH's family are where they should be!

kiterunner

02-11-15, 07:22

It seem to ignore a middle name on my search although I have unticked the "Name Variants" box - as far as I know, my OH's grandfather's full name was unique, but it comes back with lots of matches, none of which appears to be the right person.

ElizabethHerts

02-11-15, 07:23

I wonder where my grandfather is. He had an unusual name and I have tried searching with his date of birth, but nothing. He had probably been sent away on business - he worked for the Air Ministry in London, so would have been very busy just before the outbreak of war.

kiterunner

02-11-15, 07:26

Hmmm, and there are certainly mistranscriptions - my OH's grandmother comes up as being in the "Hoper household" which I assume should be Sloper as her mother was Mrs Sloper. Well, at least I now know that it should show the surname of the head of household on the free preview.

kiterunner

02-11-15, 07:59

If you are on the register and want to view your own entry there is a form you can submit but you have to pay £10 and provide proof of identity.

BlueSavannah

02-11-15, 08:17

I cannot find my great x 2 grandparents at all despite various different variations of searching. They didn't died until 1945 & 1941 so they should be there :(

I'm also very curious to find that my grandfather and his two brothers were not with my great grandparents. When I searched my great grandparents, it just says that its them and no one there with a record that's closed. One of the brothers died in 1991 so his record is open and he's in the Basford district, not Sheffield with his parents. I can't search for where my grandfather and his oldest brother are because they didn't die until the mid 2000s so their records are closed :(

I'm still waiting for my 25% discount code which i've queried over the weekend on FB and again this morning on Twitter and FMP say they are 'on it'. I will open my grandfather's brother in Basford district when I finally get my code. I'm curious to who he is staying with at just 6/7 years old.

kiterunner

02-11-15, 08:27

Apparently my 25% discount code is only valid on the Australian site, although I am in the UK! I'm waiting for them to send me a UK code to replace it.

I've just been reading through the information about how to get a closed record opened and it says that FMP provide a free "Evidence of Death checking service for all subscribers (World and Britain)" whereby you supply a copy of the death certificate for them to check, although they reserve the right to limit the number of requests per subscriber. If you are not a subscriber then you have to go via the National Archives who will charge £25. But on the National Archives page it says that the FMP service is for "12 month subscribers". I wonder what happens if you have a monthly subscription, (or any other sub less than 12 months if there are 3-month subs or 6-month ones).

Kit

02-11-15, 08:45

You probably need to wait until it is some time into the 2nd November in the UK, Toni. At the moment it is still the 1st here.

You are right. I did have to wait. Sometimes it works for the date in my country, not yours.

4 who are officially closed

What does officially closed mean? Born less than 100 years ago and no recorded death?

I searched for my great aunt and found her in London, not Staffordshire but her name was Julia MarriedName (MaidenName). She wasn't married in September 1939, so is the married name there because it somehow links to future records?

kiterunner

02-11-15, 08:54

What does officially closed mean? Born less than 100 years ago and no recorded death? Yes, although I believe that now it has gone live, living people over 100 years old can apply to have their own records closed.

I searched for my great aunt and found her in London, not Staffordshire but her name was Julia MarriedName (MaidenName). She wasn't married in September 1939, so is the married name there because it somehow links to future records? Yes, I think so.

Edit - have found OH's mother and it gives her married name, so can confirm the above.

kiterunner

02-11-15, 08:56

I see they're "having a few technical difficulties" now. Didn't take long!

Kit

02-11-15, 09:09

Yes, although I believe that now it has gone live, living people over 100 years old can apply to have their own records closed.

Yes, I think so.

Edit - have found OH's mother and it gives her married name, so can confirm the above.

Thank you. I'm not going to buy now as I can't afford it but there seem to be a few too many closed records for my liking.

Merry

02-11-15, 09:26

I don't even feel tempted to view any records. I have found:

OH's maternal grandparents (inc the famous John Hamilton with his incorrect dob proving his dau remembered the wrong date correctly if that makes sense!) and his great grandmother living with them.

One set of my grandparents with six hidden others in their house. I presume these will be their younger children and probably a grandson. I bet one of them is their ten year old son who was killed in Korea in 1951, so he should, in theory, show up, but doesn't.

I can't find my father who died in 1971 in the UK.

I can't find either of my other grandparents, who might have been together or could have been in different households at this date, depending on whether they had already moved to Wiltshire from Herts by this time. Maybe they were together and their record is lost?!! Of course, if I felt like forking out, this was the couple I wanted to see!

Merry

02-11-15, 09:31

I've now tried to find five people who were all born in the 1920s and all died between 1944 and 1968 and none of them appear. :mad: Plus my dad and his brother mentioned in my last post, too.

kiterunner

02-11-15, 09:34

I have managed to get my great-uncle's wife's date of birth for free by repeating the search with different dates until it came up with a match, but it seems that her husband's year of birth is out by 1 year, so hers may be too - both December births. At least it gives me something to work from, anyway. I've managed to get some other dates of birth which I didn't have before, and more or less confirmed a theory about one of OH's ancestors as her dob is only 1 day out from what it should be if the theory was correct. Haven't found OH's grandfather yet but his grandmother is down as "married" so I have narrowed down the year of their divorce. And I haven't been tempted to view an image yet as my 25% discount code hasn't come through yet!

kiterunner

02-11-15, 09:35

I've now tried to find five people who were all born in the 1920s and all died between 1944 and 1968 and none of them appear. :mad: Plus my dad and his brother mentioned in my last post, too.

I did find OH's mother, who was born in the 1920's and died in the 1970's.

Merry

02-11-15, 09:37

I did find OH's mother, who was born in the 1920's and died in the 1970's.

I was beginning to think they were telling porkies about these people being revealed! lol

Merry

02-11-15, 09:43

Haven't found OH's grandfather yet but his grandmother is down as "married" so I have narrowed down the year of their divorce.

In my experience people sometimes said they were married when they were actually divorced, but was there a penalty for lying in these records?

Anstey Nomad

02-11-15, 09:58

I’m playing on the 1939 Register and having very little luck at all.

I know that my dad was living in Leicester in 1939, but I don’t know where, because he and his brother both left home when their Dad re-married. Uncle Wilf got married and my Dad, who was still a teenager, went into lodgings.

I’ve searched for him under his full name, his first Christian name, his middle name (which he was usually known by) and his exact date of birth and come up with nothing.

He died in 1993.

Mind you, I can’t find Uncle Wilf either, and he died in 1960.

Is it me?

I did find Peter Henry Harrison though, no bother at all. In Swadlincote. If only they’d asked about place of birth

kiterunner

02-11-15, 10:07

As your dad died after 1991, AN, his record will be closed unless you go through the process of getting it opened by sending in his death cert. If you (or anyone else!) want help finding people who died before 1991, feel free to post on the Research Questions board. But it does seem that some pre-1991 deaths have not been noted on the register and so those people's records are still closed.

Ann from Sussex

02-11-15, 10:12

The only people in my mother's household would have been her and my sister who is still alive. My mother was born in 1907 and died in 1997 but she doesn't come up in searches of the register. Why not? Neither does my father (born the same year) but he was in the army in 1939 and I'm not sure if he would be included anyway.

Edit: I see Kite has answered my question whilst I was typing it in her reply to AN! Thanks. I don't have Mum's death certificate...I think my sister kept it when we registered her death together. Dad died in 1988 so, in theory, he should come up in a sreach but doesn't so I can only assume that is because he was the the army and they were perhaps treated differently .

Margaret in Burton

02-11-15, 10:38

kiterunner

02-11-15, 10:45

If you post up the possible date of birth I could try it in the free search later, Marg. But it shouldn't take long just to try that date and see if it comes up with a match or not. I've spent most of the morning fiddling about with the search to get dates of birth for various people in my tree!

Margaret in Burton

02-11-15, 10:50

Olde Crone

02-11-15, 10:56

I actually feel quite jealous of you all having the excitement of searching a new and completely unique resource! I will have to wait for the 1921 to get my jollies.

OC

Anstey Nomad

02-11-15, 10:59

Thanks Kite

Do I need to know where he is before I can do that?

I presume the closed record with my other grandparents is my mother, born 1920 and who is still alive.

I have no way of knowing where my father might be. He could be in any of the umpteen thousand households in Leicester except his father's and his future in-laws!

Mary from Italy

02-11-15, 11:05

Has anyone bought credits? I was intending to, but the payment site's still showing as insecure.

Just Gillian

02-11-15, 11:35

My aunt is on there although she died in 1994.

Shona

02-11-15, 11:44

Pleased for people discovering new nuggets of info to fill out their family history stories. There may be a few of my great-gran's rellies in England, but the majority of my lot are in Scotland and Ireland!

If you have 'lost' a male member of the family, he may have been conscripted and been away at annual training. Also, some may have ended up in Scotland. The population of the area my father's family was from in Argyllshire vastly increased on the eve of the second world war and during the war itself with thousands of men from all over the UK ending up there.

This is from Wiki on conscription:

Limited conscription was introduced on 27 April 1939 with the Military Training Act being passed the following month. Single men of 20 to 22 years old were liable to be called up. The intention was for the first intake to undergo six months of basic training before being discharged into an active reserve. They would then be recalled for short training periods and attend an annual camp.

At the outbreak of war on 3 September 1939, the Military Training Act was overtaken by the National Service (Armed Forces) Act and the first intake was absorbed into the army.

This act imposed a liability to conscription of all men 18 to 41 years old. Men could be rejected for medical reasons and those engaged in vital industries or 'reserved' occupations

crawfie

02-11-15, 11:53

I did a search for OH's father's family - as there were only 8 people in the country (at that time) with that surname, I had hopes of finding them. The only person who came up was someone who didn't marry into the family until 1948. After a bit of fiddling around, I found OH's grandparents, but the name was mistranscribed. On checking the preview, there are 2 further people on the record who are officially closed. These would be the 2 sons, who are both now dead, but as the name in the death cert, wouldn't match they can't be seen.

The other family with this surname is nowhere to be found,

I am quite happy to not pay any money out for this, as it looks like there are quite a number of pitfalls.

kiterunner

02-11-15, 12:02

22nd July 1885

Yes, that's his date of birth on the 1939 Register.

By the way, if anyone hasn't found how to search by date of birth, you have to go onto the "Advanced Search".

James18

02-11-15, 12:05

Some questions:

- Would the infamous Peter Henry Harrison be on here somewhere? When did he die?

- Do you need to pay to unlock a household before you can submit deaths to FMP? It sounds like Catch 22; i.e. I do not want to pay to unlock a household in which I know numerous long-dead people will be officially closed, but nor do I wish to pay to unlock them without having first viewed the household to be 100% sure of the situation -- and I'm certainly not paying £25 for it!

- Would anyone with a paid FMP sub be willing to submit a few deaths to FMP on my behalf, assuming it is free for you to do so? I'm happy to pay to unlock a couple of households, but only if I am going to get the full amount of information I am entitled to get.

I'm guessing that you can't see who's closed until you've paid to unlock the household, and so at that point you've already wasted your money and if you don't have a sub then the £25 fee is required, unless FMP/TNA somehow get on to realizing those people are infact long-dead and open their files.

Sigh. :(

kiterunner

02-11-15, 12:24

Hmm, I was going to send in a relative's death cert to FMP to get her record opened, but the form says I have to know her address on 29th Sep 1939. I only know where she was in July 1940 and I can't find that address on their address search anyway. Seems to be a bit of a flaw in the system.

kiterunner

02-11-15, 12:32

- Would the infamous Peter Henry Harrison be on here somewhere? When did he die? Yes, as has already been said, he has been found on the Register.

- Do you need to pay to unlock a household before you can submit deaths to FMP? It sounds like Catch 22; i.e. I do not want to pay to unlock a household in which I know numerous long-dead people will be officially closed, but nor do I wish to pay to unlock them without having first viewed the household to be 100% sure of the situation -- and I'm certainly not paying £25 for it! You can get the form up on the screen just from the free preview screen, although it does say in the Terms and Conditions that "Subscribers must be signed in and have unlocked a household, which contains an officially closed record, before completing a form to request an officially closed record to be opened." Not sure which is right at the moment.

- Would anyone with a paid FMP sub be willing to submit a few deaths to FMP on my behalf, assuming it is free for you to do so? I'm happy to pay to unlock a couple of households, but only if I am going to get the full amount of information I am entitled to get. They say they can impose a limit on the number which any subscriber can submit, but not what the limit is, so this might not be such a good idea. Also bear in mind that the person submitting the request has to provide full contact details "so we can get in touch with you to confirm the status of your request and to request more information if required." Has your 1 month sub expired, James?

I'm guessing that you can't see who's closed until you've paid to unlock the household, and so at that point you've already wasted your money and if you don't have a sub then the £25 fee is required, unless FMP/TNA somehow get on to realizing those people are infact long-dead and open their files.
Sigh. :( You can't see who's closed at all, only the number of "closed" people in a household. But you can see that number without paying to unlock the household.

James18

02-11-15, 12:37

Alright, thanks Kate. I'll have to leave it then, as I believe you need to be an annual subscriber to benefit from being able to submit free requests, and so this won't be something that falls under a later £1 sub offer (and understandably so, to be fair).

I don't use FMP enough to warrant paying for it, and certainly not an annual sub, and I much prefer Ancestry from an ergonomic point of view, so I'll just have to wait until these files are free to view, or possibly wander over to TNA at Kew whenever I am next down south.

Thanks for your help.

JayG

02-11-15, 12:45

I've used some of my existing credits & viewed 7 households. Apart from one grandfather I can't find that is all my direct line that were still living in 1939.

Both my grandmother's are listed in both their maiden & married names.

Some surnames have been mistranscribed & well as an address.

One great great grandmother has shaved 9 years off her age by giving her year of birth as 1867 instead of 1858.

One great grandmother has added a year to her age.

One great grandmother has a DOB a day out from her birth certificate, but this 'new' date is the same as the one my elderly grandfather told me back in the early 1990's before I got her BC.

I thought one grandmother would still be at home in Co Durham or Wemberley. But she's turned up in Nuneaton so went there alot earlier than I thought.

I've had some interesting & suprising results from looking at just the preview.

Margaret in Burton

02-11-15, 12:51

Yes, that's his date of birth on the 1939 Register.

By the way, if anyone hasn't found how to search by date of birth, you have to go onto the "Advanced Search".

Thank you Kate.

Merry

02-11-15, 13:00

James18

02-11-15, 13:04

Yes, I've seen households with '-' where a person should be as well =/

Merry

02-11-15, 13:05

After a lot of struggling I have found the house where my missing grandparents were living up to at least July 1939, but left soon after the war started. When I click Preview there is one person listed and one other person closed. The listed person just has blanks for their name and year of birth, so that's not very helpful!!

Now I've found the house they moved to and that has another family in it, so they were either in transit or two of the four of them were still at the old address and the other two elsewhere and (probably my grandmother) made a **** up of filling in the form! Wasn't it from these records you got your ration card?

Shona

02-11-15, 13:07

22nd July 1885

Thanks Kate

PHH comes up for that date.

Mary from Italy

02-11-15, 13:15

Has anyone worked out why some women have their maiden names in brackets after their married surnames?

Not all married women seem to have the maiden name in brackets; in fact in all the cases I've looked at, these women didn't get married till several years later. There are so many of them that it seems unlikely they were all cohabiting for years, and in at least one case the future husband wasn't living at that address.

It can't be that the married name was taken from their NHS records to check whether they died before 1991, because several of them were born before 1915 so it wouldn't be necessary.

I might be able to find out more by buying a household, but I'm not happy about buying credits while the site's still showing as insecure.

kiterunner

02-11-15, 13:22

Their married name and maiden name are both shown if they married after the date of the 1939 Register, as it was updated with name changes.

maggie_4_7

02-11-15, 13:23

I found my English grandfather where I expected him to be in Bethnal Green at right address, right birth date but single with 4 closed entries which would be my mother and some siblings no sign of Nanny! I thought it strange at first.

I eventually found her under Tunbridge Wells Kent! She was Hop picking at Castlemaine Farm in Horsmonden with the two youngest children and one older son, I should have realised, she went hop picking every summer all summer and didn't get home until end of September/October usually, and the others used to go down at weekends, but that year I remember her saying that they had to come home early after the war against Germany was declared.

Mary from Italy

02-11-15, 13:25

Their married name and maiden name are both shown if they married after the date of the 1939 Register, as it was updated with name changes.

Ah, thanks, that explains it. Is it usual for the future husband's surname to be given as the name of the household, though, even when he isn't living there and they didn't marry till years later?

kiterunner

02-11-15, 13:30

Ooh, my great-aunt is listed although she was born in 1917 and died in 2006!! They have her down as born 1912. I haven't viewed the image so I don't know whose error it is.

kiterunner

02-11-15, 13:31

Ah, thanks, that explains it. Is it usual for the future husband's surname to be given as the name of the household, though, even when he isn't living there and they didn't marry till years later?

I don't know the answer to that yet, sorry.

maggie_4_7

02-11-15, 13:46

James18

02-11-15, 13:47

I can't find any Scottish either!
It's just England & Wales, sadly.

Olde Crone

02-11-15, 13:53

Mary

the register was updated till 1991, so a woman's married name will have been added when she married between 1939 and 1991. (From national health records, or national insurance records)

OC

maggie_4_7

02-11-15, 13:58

It's just England & Wales, sadly.

The 1939 Register was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

So forgive me, because I haven't checked, the FMP records have excluded Scotland and Northern Ireland?

James18

02-11-15, 14:11

The 1939 Register was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

So forgive me, because I haven't checked, the FMP records have excluded Scotland and Northern Ireland?
Yes, I believe so.

ElizabethHerts

02-11-15, 14:30

Very interesting, I have been searching by using a reference number of one of my results, and it has brought up more information than I had before.

It gives me my aunt who was born in 1928 but died in the 1980. It gives both my grandparents names. So they are all on one page.

I entered the two sets of numbers after the RG101/. I didn't enter the last two numbers.

My grandmother is down as May I instead of Mary I.

ElizabethHerts

02-11-15, 14:33

My father, I presume, is the one whose information isn't disclosed, although he died in 1984.

anne fraser

02-11-15, 15:50

I have found my grandparents and my father all where they should be though there are two mystery closed people with one set of grandparents. I wonder if they had a live in maid.

I tried typing in the family surname and the registration district in the search box and it brought up several distant relatives who must still have been living nearby. It is good when you can match evidence to family stories.

James18

02-11-15, 16:07

Hmm, it seems William Arthur Eighteen (b. 1903, d.1988) is closed. :|

vita

02-11-15, 16:14

I can't find either of my parents. They hadn't met in 1939 & although I'm not sure where

my father would have been, I'm pretty sure of the my mother's details.

Found OH's father no problem & his is a much more common surname.

Merry

02-11-15, 16:16

Hmm, it seems William Arthur Eighteen (b. 1903, d.1988) is closed. :|

So he must have the wrong dob recorded as otherwise he'd be over 100.

Merry

02-11-15, 16:22

James, this one is male, but if Ione is truly what it says that's a woman's name, isn't it?

First name(s) Ione A
Last name(s) Eighteen
Birth year 1903
Borough / District Reading C.B. County Berkshire

Could be William A?

James18

02-11-15, 16:26

I can't find anyone called Ione A [Surname] born c1903 on Ancestry.

Bill was definitely born 1903 (I know his d.o.b.) and would have been living at 30 Leopold Road unless he was still in the Army at that point, which I doubt.

Mind you, if that isn't him, then who the hell is Ione A Eighteen? :D

maggie_4_7

02-11-15, 16:36

Yes, I believe so.

It is irritating that Scotland always claims the records when clearly we are one country legally and constitutionally - for a little while yet anyway.

Merry

02-11-15, 16:37

Merry

02-11-15, 16:39

I did that and it's right (23/5)

James18

02-11-15, 16:44

So try Ione with William's dob!
Heh, good idea.

If I search his birthday, and just Eighteen (no forename) Ione A does pop up, but if I search for Ione A Eighteen and the birthday, I get no results.

Merry

02-11-15, 16:45

I'll try that as I can't remember what I entered now (all of two mins ago!)

James18

02-11-15, 16:46

I'd really like a date of birth for Owen John Syer Wellman, who would be living with Bill (and others) in 1939. He died in 1946, but seems to be locked by default. :(

Merry

02-11-15, 16:48

Heh, good idea.

If I search his birthday, and just Eighteen (no forename) Ione A does pop up, but if I search for Ione A Eighteen and the birthday, I get no results.

It seems to be adding the A which is the problem. If I enter Ione Eighteen and 1903 I get the result whether I enter the full dob or not. If I add the middle initial I don't get any result no matter what boxes I do or don't fill.

James18

02-11-15, 16:54

James18

02-11-15, 17:06

By the way, does anyone know when it became compulsory to have a person's date of birth on their death certificate?

kiterunner

02-11-15, 17:30

I've had that problem with initials before, so it may not be unique to this example.

Is there any way to narrow down the search parameters? i.e. if you can trace Ione A Eighteen to 30 Leopold Road, Reading then it is surely Bill.

Go on the Advanced Search and put in name Ione Eighteen, street Leopold and he comes up.

If you go via the address search and choose 30 Leopold Road, the head of household is Vera E Wellman.

Go back to the original search for Ione Eighteen and add the name Vera Wellman as other household member, and he does still come up.

QED.

If I ever looked at the "household" name I might have skipped that last bit, since it does say "Wellman household" above Ione's entry but I didn't see that in the beginning!

James18

02-11-15, 17:33

Go on the Advanced Search and put in name Ione Eighteen, street Leopold and he comes up.

If you go via the address search and choose 30 Leopold Road, the head of household is Vera E Wellman.

Go back to the original search for Ione Eighteen and add the name Vera Wellman as other household member, and he does still come up.

QED.

If I ever looked at the "household" name I might have skipped that last bit, since it does say "Wellman household" above Ione's entry but I didn't see that in the beginning!
Excellent, thank you, and yes, Vera was an Eighteen (maiden name) and both of her sons died before 1991 but seem to be closed, so I'm not going to pay to view the entry.

At least we know that Ione is William, so that's good, as I had wondered where he would have been.

Thanks again.

kiterunner

02-11-15, 17:33

By the way, does anyone know when it became compulsory to have a person's date of birth on their death certificate?

June 1969. Obviously, it is not "compulsory", given that if nobody knows the deceased's date of birth, the death is still registered!

James18

02-11-15, 17:36

June 1969. Obviously, it is not "compulsory", given that if nobody knows the deceased's date of birth, the death is still registered!
Ha, yes, of course, but you knew what I meant. Thanks. :D

peppie

02-11-15, 23:11

Dear Find my past what a p*ss up in a brewery you have presented us with !

My dear father if he was still alive would not turn 100 until Jan 1917, apart from knowing he would likely to be somewhere between Bethnal Green and Essex is as about as much as I have to go on I have no idea if he is still with his foster family or not - and there at least two likely candidates for his foster father. or he might be on his own somewhere... as he is dead and under the prerequisite 100 years old he does not come up in a search. As such I cannot submit his death certificate to FMP and get them to unlock his record.
Is there any way I can submit the info I have and force them to search for him?

So i tried my OH grandfather....... no joy although too old to be back fighting and I know when his daughter was born he was a civil servant fireman so unlikely to be on active service, yet I found his wife with two records that I am forbidden to see! on is likely to be her son born 1917, now passed but obviously missed the cut of point the other possibly either her daughter who shouldn't have missed the cut off date as she was born in 1914 or my mother in law born in 1935 as I dont know but have all the certs how am I supposed to know to be able to submit them! (can you feel my anger rising)

So I decided to look for dads birth mother - no trace........ lets change this and look for the man she subsequently married yes! he is there! twist the search slightly and find her don't stick a first name in just the area that came up for him, bingo she comes up in the search!

I think I will wait and pay a visit to Kew

However if anyone knows a way I can submit a death cert for dad as he is not coming up in the searches as they think he might be alive then I will be grateful for that advice!

Dad everything you told me has been true! can you please where-ever you are poke a stick at the right archive people to allow the rest to come tumbling out love you to the moon and back! always in my thoughts and I so wish we could have a good natter about my research I know you would be proud of my tenacity :) Eves dropping and memory of the conversations that I eves dropped on :D

James18

02-11-15, 23:42

kiterunner

03-11-15, 07:20

Yes, but the problem is, how can peppie know which is her father's household record since he doesn't come up on a search?

kiterunner

03-11-15, 07:28

I can't remember whether it has been mentioned on this thread that there is now an option to buy 900 credits, enough to view 15 households, for a price of £54.95. The price per household is then almost exactly the same as the price you would pay if you bought 300 credits (5 households) with the 25% subscriber discount. Only problem is the credits now expire after 90 days, although expired credits will be re-credited to your account if you buy more or subscribe within 3 months of expiry.

peppie

03-11-15, 07:29

peppie,

AFAIK you need to pay to open your father's household's record, then submit a death certificate to FMP. There should be some sort of option to do so, but I can't say exactly how as I haven't paid anything.

You need a paid FMP subscription to do this, in which case it's free via FMP. If you don't have one, you need to send £25 to TNA, Kew.

Thanks James I get that but I don't know where he is and as he wasn't married at the time he wont be with his wife and at his age unlikely to be with his foster family anymore - he is hidden somewhere although he died in the 1990's he is coming up as a blank no matter what search tactic I use for him - My MIL died in 1999 but I know shes there as there is an unlock person there with her mother which will be her.

What is interesting is that my GMIL married again in the 1970's if I search for her name as it was in 1939 then she's not there - date of birth yes she is ! put her second married name that she died with then she comes up with her 1939 married name in brackets

This may help people looking for women that married more than once. The list became the basis on the NHS list so names do seem to have been updated on it at some point! (interesting)

Anstey Nomad

03-11-15, 08:08

OK, so I've got my Dad's Death Certificate.

Where do I go now to ask to open his record?

I can see that this is an option once you have identified the household, but I have no idea where my Dad was in 1939, other than that he was somewhere in Leicester.

I am finding this all very emotional and stressful. I shouldn't have to be relying on government records to tell me basic stuff about my own father.

kiterunner

03-11-15, 08:23

If you find out the answer, please let us know, AN. You could try emailing FMP's support, but you may have to wait a while to get a reply as they are very busy at the moment.

I would love to submit my mother's cousin's death cert to open up her record, but I don't know where she was living at that date.

Mary from Italy

03-11-15, 09:31

How do you get the 25% subscriber discount? I have a 12-month world sub, but I haven't received an e-mail.

anne fraser

03-11-15, 09:48

I am still puzzling about the two mystery closed people with my grandparents. I know they took in a couple of evacuees from London but would they have been evacuated that early. I always thought it was after the first bombing raids.

Merry

03-11-15, 09:51

Have a look here Anne:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/britain_wwtwo/evacuees_01.shtml

kiterunner

03-11-15, 09:52

How do you get the 25% subscriber discount? I have a 12-month world sub, but I haven't received an e-mail.

Email FMP First Support and make sure you specify which country's site you want to use it on (i.e. what currency you want to pay in.) I emailed them and got a code but it gave me an error message when I tried to use it, emailed them again and they said I could only use it on the Australian site. I then asked them for a UK one instead but haven't heard back yet.

Anstey Nomad

03-11-15, 10:17

I don't know whether this helps or not. This is the conversation I have just had with support at FMP:

Sheila Medlock
1939 Register question. My father (1917-1993) is not coming up on a search. I have his death certificate . I've looked at the application for a record to be opened, but it seems to require the address of the person. I do not know where my father was living in 1939. Is there any way I can prove death and have his record opened if I don't know the address?
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Adam Redpath
Hello Shelia.
You can submit an FOI request to search closed records within the 1939 Register via The National Archives website.

The National Archives will guide you through their process and if your request is successful, we will receive notification and instruction directly from TNA to open the record. This can take up to 20 working days, as per TNA guidelines.
Sheila Medlock
And I can do this without having the address?
Adam Redpath
As long as the TNA can find the record without using the address.
Sheila Medlock
That's helpful. Do you have a link for the FOI application?
Adam Redpath
There you go.. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/foi/
Sheila Medlock
That's great - thanks.

kiterunner

03-11-15, 10:23

Thanks for the info, AN. I wonder if they will charge you £25 as shown on this page, though:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/PaidSearch/FOI1939Register?HHID=chb_cd%60&Place=Garforth%20U.D.&County=Yorkshire%20(West%20Riding)

I have to say the info in FMP's 1939 Register "Help" section does not fit the bill:

What happens if my ancestor’s record is closed, even though I know they’re no longer alive?
If you think that someone should appear on the 1939 Register because they’ve died, you can request online a copy of their death certificate from the General Register Office (GRO), included in the Useful links section on this page. A certificate costs £9.25.
You can find the date of death, and further details needed by the GRO for anyone who died before 2007, in our England & Wales deaths, also included in the Useful links section.

They need to say what you would do after that!!

Mary from Italy

03-11-15, 10:34

Email FMP First Support and make sure you specify which country's site you want to use it on (i.e. what currency you want to pay in.) I emailed them and got a code but it gave me an error message when I tried to use it, emailed them again and they said I could only use it on the Australian site. I then asked them for a UK one instead but haven't heard back yet.

Thanks Kate, I'll try that.

kiterunner

03-11-15, 12:56

I have received my replacement code now.

FMP have posted on Facebook to say that if an address has no open records, it will not come up on an address search, and that they will be publishing a blog post later today with more info on this type of situation.

Merry

03-11-15, 13:01

FMP have posted on Facebook to say that if an address has no open records, it will not come up on an address search, and that they will be publishing a blog post later today with more info on this type of situation.

That suggests it's not currently possible to tell the difference between a house with only closed record residents and a house that is empty. Great!

anne fraser

03-11-15, 15:29

Merry thanks for the update about the evacuees. It looks as though they could be the mystery closed records. It would have been interesting to know who they were as I have photos of them with my grandparents. Ironically my mum who was a teacher was evacuated with a class of Bristol children to Cornwall for safety.

I think the London children returned to London in time for the V2 bombing.

kiterunner

03-11-15, 17:08

I presume this is the blog post they mentioned earlier today but it's hard to tell as their blog doesn't seem to go in chronological order any more:
https://blog.findmypast.co.uk/watch-1436591498.html

Anstey Nomad

04-11-15, 13:13

I've now had a response from TNA.

Thank you for contacting The National Archives of the United Kingdom.

You can indeed submit an FOI request to search the closed records in the 1939 Register. You can do that by visiting this page on our website:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/PaidSearch/FOI1939Register

You can find further information in our 1939 Register research guide.

I hope this helps.

Well actually it doesn't, because of course it requires an address, which I don't have, which was where we came in.

I've replied and pointed out that Find My Past said I could make an FOI request and I did not need the address and I will see what they say, but I'm not confident.

I know my Dad was called up at the beginning of the war. Would have been gone by the end of September? Would it have been that quick?

Margaret in Burton

04-11-15, 13:23

I know my Dad was called up at the beginning of the war. Would have been gone by the end of September? Would it have been that quick?

Dave's dad was called up but according to his army record his enlistment didn't start until 6 June 1940. He is still with his parents in 1939, redacted, so I've sent a copy of his death cert.

Mary from Italy

07-11-15, 23:47

It's worth taking a close look at the closed entries if you buy a household; my mother's entry's closed, but her married name's legible as it was written above her maiden name, and the black bar doesn't completely hide it.

kiterunner

24-11-15, 18:52

Strange that they apparently posted this on their blog yesterday, although it reads as though it was written before the launch:
https://blog.findmypast.co.uk/what-does-the-1939-register-mean-for-family-historians-1472148724.html

Particularly interesting that it includes a button to click to "Start exploring your ancestors' story with a trial membership", although this would not give you access to the 1939 Register which the article is all about!

And that it says in huge type that "The 1939 Register is going to give you the dates of birth of everyone in the house", with no mention of "closed" records!