View Full Version : Strange Baptisms
I'm trying to find a baptism for Thomas Rawstorne, my 4greats grandfather.
There is a baptism for someone of his name in Calcutta in 1806. If it is him, he also has an older brother, so possibly more family to find. :)
Thomas was baptised aged 11 years 2 months, son of the late Lieut Col Rawstorne (thanks Reverend, a name would have helped or even mentioning Mum?). William was 12 months older.
The interesting thing is that there were 24 children baptised that day. Of that 24, 20 were the children of the late Rank/Position Surname and most were older children ie 5 or older.
Off to push Jr on the swings then to search the burial registers in the hope the late Lieut Col Rawstorne was buried with his rank, and Christian name, written down.
Sounds like they got a minister and rounded up all the kids and had them done together.....lol
It does Libby, but the number of dead fathers surprised me.
I've pretty much decided in my head that Lieut Col R is mine as I have googled him and there seems to be money in the family and Thomas is, of course, not mentioned anywhere. Although Lieut Col does have a son William.
Don't know if this is him?
The Morning Post 12th June 1804
Royal Lancs Militia 1st battalion Lawrence Rawstorne esq to be Lieutenant Colonel. Promoted.
Perhaps the children were at an orphanage? Therevwereva couple of them in Calcutta at the time for the children of regular soldiers and another for officers' offspring. Most of the children on that baptismal list seem to have officers as fathers.
http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/apac/other/019pzz000001619u00000000.html
RAWSTORNE, Edward. (1745/46-1801) Major General.
Colonel Comdt. Cavalry.b 1745/6. Cadet 1764. Admitted
1 Sept. 1764. Ensign 6 March.1765. Lieut. 14 Dec. 1766.
Capt.14 Oct.1769. Major 9 Jan.1781. Lt. Col 14 Feb 1787.
Col. 3 May 1796. Maj. Gen. 1800. d. Berhampore 7 July
1801.
Eldest son of Rev.William Rawstorne,52 years rector
of Badsworth,Yorks.and Elizabeth his wife,dau.
of Samuel Walker,of Stapleton Park,Yorks. Brother
of Lawrence Rawstorne q.v His daus. m. William
INNES and Thomas WARD,qq.v.
Services: Sailed for India in the Vansittart 4 Mar.
1764,aged 18.Ensign 1st Bengal Eur.Regt.;resigned
his Commissionduring the "Batta mutiny"
15 May 1766. Dismissed Jan. 1767 for his mutinous
support of Sir Robert Fletcher q.v.:restored 7 July
1767.Capt. comdg.28th Bn Sepoys in Dec.1777;
Capt. Comdt. of Kalpi fort in 1778. Apptd. to
comd. 21st N.I. 1st Jan.1781; comdg.at
Fatehgarh in June 1781; comdg.27th N.I. in Apr.
1786.Fur.30 Oct.1786 till 20 Aug. 1790. Lt.Col.
comdg. 6th Eur.Bn.
in Feb. 1796; transfd. as Col. to 2nd Bengal Eur.
Regt.1796. Apptd. Col. Comdt. of newly-formed
Cav. Bde. of four regts. 2 June 1797;comdg. at
Berhampore May 1799 till death.
Refs: Burks Landed Gentry,4th edn.,p.1255,s.n.
Rawstorne,of Penwortham Priory,Lincs. G.M.
1802, i. 584.
RAWSTORNE,Lawrence (1750/51-1805).Lieut.
Colonel,4th N.I. b.1750/51.Cadet 1778.
Arrived in India 2 Oct.1778.Ensign Oct.1778.
Lieut 20 Nov.1778.Capt.1 June 1796.Major
10 Aug. 1801. Lt. Col. 30 June 1804.
d.Aligarh 16 Oct.1805.
2nd son of Rev. Rawstorne and Elizabeth his wife.
Brother of Edward Rawstorne,q.v. m.(?) His dau.
m.Charles PORTEOUS,q.v.
Services: Sailed for India in the Nassau 1 Mar.
1778,aged 27.Apptd.Adjt. 28 Bn.Sepoys
22 March.1780.Fur.16 Dec.1784. till Nov.1788.
Lieut. 5th Bengal Eur.Bn. in Dec.1788 and in
1790; 12th Bn. Sepoys in 1792; 6th Eur. Bn.
in Feb. 1796.Transfd. as Capt. to 5th N.I.;
as Major to Bengal Eur.Regt.;as Lt. Col. to
2/4th N.I. (? Second Mahratta War;defence of
Delhi Oct. 1804; Lt.Col. comdg. 2/4th N.I.)
Sorry, I popped out to do the school run!
Merry I would say that is him.
Shona I've seen that information you posted. Notice it doesn't mention any children, besides a nameless daughter? I've looked up the daughter's marriage and he is an officer.
I'm going to have a look at that orphanage link now. Thanks Shona
Name: Lawrence Rawstorne
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 26 Feb 1750
Baptism Place: Badsworth, York, England
Father: Rev. Rawstorne
FHL Film Number: 1542086
Reference ID: items 7-11 p 11
There do seem to be quite a few Lawrence Rawstornes, but this links up with the above baptism and Shona's post from Rootschat:
Cambridge University alumni:
Name: William Rawstorne
College: SIDNEY
Entered: 1730
Died: 24 Aug 1790
More Information:
Adm. pens. (age 17) at SIDNEY, May 7, 1730. 4th s. of William, Esq., of New Hall, Bury, Lancs. B. there. School, Sedbergh, Yorks. Matric. 1730. Migrated to St John's, Nov. 13, 1732. B.A. 1733-4; M.A. 1737. Fellow of St John's, 1735-40. Ord. deacon (Lincoln) Sept. 19, 1736; priest. R. of Chipping, Lancs., 1738. R. of Badsworth, Yorks., 1738-90. Married Elizabeth, dau. of Samuel Walker, of Stapleton Park, Yorks. Died Aug. 24, 1790. Brother of Edward (1721) and James (1737). (Scott-Mayor, III. 446; G. Mag.)
Oooh:
http://founders.archives.gov/documents/Washington/05-14-02-0386
So how do I prove that my Thomas Rawstorne/Rawstone who married in 1813 is the Thomas Rawstorne baptised above?
My Thomas' children are Eliza, William George and Sophia.
Eliza, William and Sophia are all names in the Lieut Col's family from things I saw when I googled.
My Thomas was an Indigo planter when he married and 6 years later was a Writer in the Collections Office at the joint baptism of his 3 children.
There is a William Rawstorne who is also a writer in the collections office.
There's a couple of entries on FMP re Lieut Col Lawrence Rawstorne dying intestate, Dec 1805. Also entries on FIBIS showing he was b 1750/1.
Oooh:
http://founders.archives.gov/documents/Washington/05-14-02-0386
Sorry missed all your posts before.
I agree, oooh.
I don't think that would make me related though would it?
lol! I just meant the Rev Rawstorne was mentioned in high places! (and on the same piece of paper as people called Naylor (libby's?????!! lol!!)
I'd be afraid, very afraid!!! :eek::D
I saw that Naylor reference, too.
lol I think I'm ok. I'm guessing that my Thomas, if he is the son of Lawrence, was left in India if/when the family left.
So how do I prove that my Thomas Rawstorne/Rawstone who married in 1813 is the Thomas Rawstorne baptised above?
That's the tricky part. Do you have an age at death of marriage for Thomas?
Just recapping as I keep misplacing notes:
Sophia Rawstorne (mother of Blanche Adelaide Hamond who married the mysterious Mr F before marrying William Earl Shadwell) was the daughter of Thomas Rawstorne and Rose Sponge - a widow. Sophia was baptised on 27 April 1817.
Rose Batavia married Peter Spunge on 14 January 1804 in Calcutta.
Rose Sponge married Thomas Rawstorne on 2 May 1813.
That's the tricky part. Do you have an age at death of marriage for Thomas?
No age given at marriage and Thomas does not appear to die. :rolleyes:
If the 2 Thomas's are the same person he would have been born about 1795 and was 18 at the time of marriage.
Just recapping as I keep misplacing notes:
Sophia Rawstorne (mother of Blanche Adelaide Hamond who married the mysterious Mr F before marrying William Earl Shadwell) was the daughter of Thomas Rawstorne and Rose Sponge - a widow. Sophia was baptised on 27 April 1817.
Rose Batavia married Peter Spunge on 14 January 1804 in Calcutta.
Rose Sponge married Thomas Rawstorne on 2 May 1813.
Sophia is Thomas' daughter and yes Thomas married Rose. I am working on the theory that the Batavia - Spunge marriage is correct, although Peter's death has eluded me.
Rose Sponge married Thomas Rawstorne on 2 May 1813
So if this is the Thomas bap end of 1806 aged 11years and 2 months he would only be 17 at the marriage?
FMP's India records have a burial for a Thomas Raustorne at Mozoufferpore in 1830.
B*gger, yes. I took 11 from 1806 and got 1795, then worked out there was 18 years between 1795 and 1813, not thinking properly.
The marriage just says the names, occupation, marital status, no age or parents.
FMP's India records have a burial for a Thomas Raustorne at Mozoufferpore in 1830.
That's exciting. Off to look. That is not a variation I have come across before.
tenterfieldjulie
25-02-14, 09:34
In India there were a lot of arranged marriages with couples much younger than 17. I wouldn't discount it because of that age.
Thanks Julie, I wont. My 2g grandma was 17 on her first marriage and widowed and 21 for her second.
Shona it could be him, I have no idea what the occupation is though. I wish there was an age though.
Can someone look at the marriage between Thomas Rawsterne and Charlotte in 1816 at Dum Dum. Does that look relevant to me?
tenterfieldjulie
25-02-14, 09:47
I've read there were many reasons for the marriages Toni and usually the bride and groom had no say. Influence and money for the parents were the main objects but supposedly protection for the women who were extremely vulnerable. Marrying a young man would have been a relief for many of the young women I would imagine. Marrying an old man, I suppose if you were just an ornament, would have been better than depending on other males in your family to look after you. It was a very different society then in India to our western ideas especially today.
Julie in my 2g grandma's case I suspect a marriage was security. Her father was wealthy Scot, married an englishwoman, rather than her Indian mother, and he returned to England. I don't know but I suspect he cut all ties.
She married an army man so in theory a good catch, except that he supposedly died. She then married my 2g grandfather and that was more successful, or at least long term.
Julie I actually find it all a bit sad, how the anglo-indians were abandoned. My James Johnstone that I have mentioned before, was either born in a harem, or maybe his father was. Not sure yet which. His grandfather was one of 4 brothers. I have read one article that said one of the 4 was considered the richest man in England at one time. James inherited his father's drummer position, which was probably poorly paid and only for half-castes.
tenterfieldjulie
25-02-14, 10:06
Oh Toni she would have been very vulnerable I'm so pleased that her 2nd marriage worked out.
I saw that Naylor reference, too.
I'm getting a real name for myself, aren't I? lol
tenterfieldjulie
25-02-14, 10:14
The caste system is !!!! to me Often white people treated the people of mixed race, better than the Indian people of full caste. I saw how some of the Indians treated native people in Fiji and then the Indians wondered why they had coups to oust them from parliament. (There were more reasons than that of course). It seems so wrong to me to think you are better than someone else because you are born into a particular caste.
Can someone look at the marriage between Thomas Rawsterne and Charlotte in 1816 at Dum Dum. Does that look relevant to me?
V diff to read, but that Thomas seems to be in the artillery.
Can someone look at the marriage between Thomas Rawsterne and Charlotte in 1816 at Dum Dum. Does that look relevant to me?
Ignore this. Thomas's last child with Rose was born in 1817. This has to be someone else.
FMP's India records have a burial for a Thomas Raustorne at Mozoufferpore in 1830.
Wasn't Sophia baptised as 'Mazufferpore'?
Yes she was. She was married there too, in 1833.
Sophia was 16 and her mother signed in the parents spot, which could indicate her father was dead.
I'm getting a real name for myself, aren't I? lol
Yes. :d
The caste system is !!!! to me Often white people treated the people of mixed race, better than the Indian people of full caste. I saw how some of the Indians treated native people in Fiji and then the Indians wondered why they had coups to oust them from parliament. (There were more reasons than that of course). It seems so wrong to me to think you are better than someone else because you are born into a particular caste.
I started reading a book someone wrote about their family which included my Johnstone relatives but not my direct line. It was hard reading and those of mixed blood were treated very badly after British women started going to India. I have no respect for my relatives that abandoned their mixed blood children and I don't care what the class system said.
Yes she was. She was married there too, in 1833.
Sophia was 16 and her mother signed in the parents spot, which could indicate her father was dead.
Found this in the Asiatic Review via Google books:
4 May 1833 at Mozufferpore, in Tirhoot, Mr H G Hampton to Sophia, youngest daughter of the late Mr T Rawstone.
That is good Shona, thanks. It does look like what you found is correct. I just don't know what his job is, not that that matters.
I like the Asiatic Review books. It has the only record of another x great grandfather's death.
tenterfieldjulie
25-02-14, 10:53
Agree with you Toni, no child should be abandoned for any reason.
So pleased that you are finally finding the records from India. I know you have been waiting for some time . Cheers. Julie
Julie the wait has been awful. I started confirming what I had seen on familysearch and the British library transcriptions and following through on any extra children/marriages I have found. I prefer seeing the originals.
I'm having trouble taking any of the lines further back as nothing is obvious but one step at a time. I am enjoying being able to search at long last.
I got a bit hopeful when I saw a bap for Charles Sackville Rawstorne in India son of Edward (I think) who was also something high up in the army and I wondered if Edward was Lawrence's brother. CSR died in Kent in 1831 and left his estate to cousins, but they were both female (one was Elizabeth Rawstorne and I've forgotten the other now, she was Elizabeth's sister) and they were the daughters of CSR's uncle William (I think - I really should write things down - I read this a couple of hours ago!). I was desperately hoping more cousins were going to be included and some would be yours, but it was not to be!! lol
A bit more prodding showed me Lawrence did have a brother Edward who was the father of CJR, but that doesn't help with being certain your Thomas is this Lawrence's son (though I would put some money on it!)
EDIT: of course Shona's first post on this thread said that too! lol
Lawrence died 16th Oct 1806 Upper Provinces according to army records on Google Book Search (some records show the same date, but in 1805.)
Thanks for looking Merry. I feel this is my family too, but I want to prove it. Problem is the fact there is only one Thomas born in the country (India) doesn't help as somewhere along the line we need someone to arrive from the UK. It doesn't help that it all fits nicely though.
Lawrence died 16th Oct 1806 Upper Provinces according to army records on Google Book Search (some records show the same date, but in 1805.)
I can't get a result for this on google. Can you please post a link?
Here it is. I've been trying to think of a way to tell which year is right, without any success! lol
Page 218 and 219 (brother Edward is also listed same pages):
https://archive.org/details/alphabeticallist00dodwrich
Thanks.
I was going to say I'll go with 1805 as there is a will entry for that year on FMP but there is no actual date on the scan so it could be a typo. I'll have a look and see if anything says he died 1805.
Of course, there is no burial entry that I have found yet.
Oooh - look at this:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=055-ddr&cid=-1#-1
Ooodles of Rawstorne documents in the Lancashire Records Office.
I wonder what this is about? (TNA)
[no title] DDR 1/5 16 Feb. 1804
Contents:
Edward, Earl of Derby, to Lawrence Rawstorne, esq. -- Lieutenant Colonel in 1st Battalion Royal Lancashire Militia, whereof Thomas Stanley, esq. is Colonel.
and did they not realise he died in 1805/6, or is this someone else (I can't find anyone else to match, or is the date wrong, or something else????
[no title] DDR 1/7 4 Nov. 1819
Contents:
Edward, Earl of Derby, to Lawrence Rawstorne, esq. -- Lieutenant Colonel in 1st. Battalion Royal Lancashire Militia whereof John Plumbe, esq. is Colonel.
There are plenty of other refs to Lawrence Rawstorne and the Earl of Derby, some in the lifetime of the Lieut Col, but only these two mention the rank (or any rank).
Ah, this record shows us who the later Lieut Col was. The question is, could he be the one referred to in the 1804 entry?
Laurence was succeeded by his son William, of New
Hall, who was High Sheriff in 1712, and who had two sons, Edward and
Laurence. By arrangement, Edward (the elder), who was never married,
surrendered the family estates to his brother Laurence's son, who was also
named Laurence. This brother Laurence was the one who presided at
the Preston Court Leet, in October, 1740. He married, in 1736, Jane
Langton (daughter of Richard Langton), who in 1732 inherited Broughton
Tower property, near Preston. She was 70 years of age when married,
and lived only about two months after the event. Subsequently Laurence
Rawstorne married again; his second wife being Agnes, daughter of
Robert Dent, of Preston. In 1736-7 he was the Mayor's Bailiff at Preston.
He was elected an Alderman of the borough in 1739. In 1740-1, 1750-1,
and 1760-1 he was Mayor here. He retained his Aldermanship till his
death, in 1763 The son Laurence, who inherited the family property by
the arrangement referred to, was the issue of the second marriage. He
was High Sheriff of Lancashire in 1776, and he purchased Hutton Hall
and the manor of Penwortham in 1783. When he died the property was
inherited by his eldest son (Laurence Rawstorne, of New Hall and
Hutton), who was High Sheriff in 1814, and lieutenant-colonel of the 1st
Lancashire Militia. He died in 1850; his heir being his only son, the
present Lawrence Rawstorne, who was born in 1842, and who now resides
at Hutton Hall.
So, we need to know when the Lawrence who died in 1850 was born to see when he might have been a Lieut Col.
I'm confused. The Lawrence who is potentially mine died in 1805 (or 1806), so he couldn't be the Laurence in bold, could he?
Deaths Sep 1850
RAWSTORNE Lawrence Preston 21 375
He seems to be 60 in 1841. Wife is only 20 and one baby daughter. On later censuses I see his son b 1842 in Penwortham, Lancs which is where they were living in 1841 (wish I could see son with mum in 1851 to confirm. EDIT confirmed, son with correct mum in 1861).
So if this Lawrence was b about the 1770s could he also be a lieut Col in 1804 (as well as at that later date, which I think must be this man)?
Answer.......I don't know! lol
I'm confused. The Lawrence who is potentially mine died in 1805 (or 1806), so he couldn't be the Laurence in bold, could he?
Exactly. So now we know there were at least two Lieut Col's with the same name. This means we can't say any ref to a Lieut Col of that name is "yours". (Inc the promotion I found right at the very start of this thread. That might be the man who had connections to the Earl of derby and died in 1850!)
That link you gave me above says that the one promoted in 1804 died in 1806, and he is potentially mine. So any Lieut Col outside those 2 years is not mine. Within the 2 years could be either.
This from rootsweb however, that Shona posted, makes me think my man only served in India. Do you agree?
RAWSTORNE,Lawrence (1750/51-1805).Lieut.
Colonel,4th N.I. b.1750/51.Cadet 1778.
Arrived in India 2 Oct.1778.Ensign Oct.1778.
Lieut 20 Nov.1778.Capt.1 June 1796.Major
10 Aug. 1801. Lt. Col. 30 June 1804.
d.Aligarh 16 Oct.1805.
That link you gave me above says that the one promoted in 1804 died in 1806, and he is potentially mine. So any Lieut Col outside those 2 years is not mine. Within the 2 years could be either.
I can't find that bit quickly!
I thought the one promoted in 1804 was in the 1st Battalion Lancs Regiment (as was the one who died in 1850), but yours says this: "Lieut. Colonel,4th N.I" in Shona's post. I don't know what that stands for, but not Lancs Regiment, I presume.
Have to go out now. Might pop in on my phone, but it's rubbish for posting with!!
I agree about yours serving in India and probably only there.
I thought the one promoted in 1804 was in the 1st Battalion Lancs Regiment (as was the one who died in 1850), but yours says this: "Lieut. Colonel,4th N.I" in Shona's post. I don't know what that stands for, but not Lancs Regiment, I presume.
NI means Native Infantry.
This from rootsweb however, that Shona posted, makes me think my man only served in India. Do you agree?
RAWSTORNE,Lawrence (1750/51-1805).Lieut.
Colonel,4th N.I. b.1750/51.Cadet 1778.
Arrived in India 2 Oct.1778.Ensign Oct.1778.
Lieut 20 Nov.1778.Capt.1 June 1796.Major
10 Aug. 1801. Lt. Col. 30 June 1804.
d.Aligarh 16 Oct.1805.
Here's a wee bit about Aligarh from Wikipedia.
Battle of Aligarh (1803)
The Battle of Aligarh was fought on 1 September 1803 during the Second Anglo-Maratha War (1803–1805) at Aligarh Fort.
The British 76th Regiment, now known as the Duke of Wellington's Regiment besieged the fort, which was under the control of the French officer Perron, and established British rule. General Lord Gerard Lake oversaw the Battle of Ally Ghur.
In 1804, the Aligarh district was formed by the union of the second, third and fourth British divisions with the addition of Anupshahr from Muradabad and Sikandra Rao from Etawa.
On 1 August 1804, Claude Russell was appointed the first Collector of the new district.
Google book snippet:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WflAAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=lieut+col+rawstorne&source=bl&ots=qelRFoAune&sig=uQpXsFMW7KgzT6o88NCgEdYUnZ0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=h-8NU_b7M-Ws7QaI8IHgCQ&ved=0CDUQ6AEwBDgK#v=onepage&q=lieut%20col%20rawstorne&f=false
It's from 1802 and has a Captain Law Rawstorne as an Aide de Camp to a General Rawstorne.
Lawrence died 16th Oct 1806 Upper Provinces according to army records on Google Book Search (some records show the same date, but in 1805.)
His death was 16 Oct 1805 and it was reported in the 1806 Asiatic Annual Register. It also notes that he was a Lieut Col of the Bengal native infantry.
As noted earlier (Merry, think it was you), he died intestate. FMP's India collection (recorded as Rawstarne) have some details of the paperwork. The accounts were filed in 1809.
I just compared the rootweb information with the book Merry posted above. Those 2 people are one and the same.
Not saying there isn't more than one Lieut Col Lawrence Rawstorne, just the 2 sets of details we have for an army career are for the same person.
Just putting this here my Thomas was alive in Sep 1828 when his eldest daughter Eliza married. He signed the marriage register.
From an earlier post:
4 May 1833 at Mozufferpore, in Tirhoot, Mr H G Hampton to Sophia, youngest daughter of the late Mr T Rawstone.
The death you found must be right Shona. He only had a short window to die in - Sep 1828 - May 1833. 1830, fits right in.
The death you found must be right Shona. He only had a short window to die in - Sep 1828 - May 1833. 1830, fits right in.
Just been looking at the Nov 1842 marriage of William George Rawstorne, 26, to Ann Burgess, 15, at Muzaffapore. His occupation is '????? of indigo planter'. His father is Thomas Rawstorne and hers is Luke Livingstone Burgess. It doesn't say that TR is dec, though. What I found interesting is that one of the witnesses was H G Hampton.
Just thinking...should this thread be moved to Research?
His occupation is '????? of indigo planter'.
I think it is Afst - Assistant.
One of the other witnesses Jno Spellissy is the second husband of Eliza nee Rawstorne. (as a creepy aside he was a witness to Eliza's first wedding at the age of 15).
Not all people record the fact a parent is deceased, I'm not worried about it.
I'm not fussed if this is moved or not. It admin think it is more appropriate to move it, I'm fine with it.
Some one else can do the research as I'm off to work, but
India at this period is governed by the East India Company - a private company. The soldiers are not, so far as I am aware, part of the British Army.
But... Wellington (then Wellesley, I think?) was part of the British Army.
So possibly two different sets of records to explore?
Some one else can do the research as I'm off to work, but
India at this period is governed by the East India Company - a private company. The soldiers are not, so far as I am aware, part of the British Army.
But... Wellington (then Wellesley, I think?) was part of the British Army.
So possibly two different sets of records to explore?
From Family Search:
Until 1859, there were two armies in India: the British Army and the Honourable Company (East India Company) Army. There were also several garrisons of French, Danish, and Dutch soldiers.
The British Army regiments were raised in England and spent several years in India, as well as in other places. For the most part, British Army records are stored in the National Archives (TNA) in Kew, London.
Honourable Company regiments were raised in India or England for service only in India. Their records are for the most part stored in the Oriental and India Office Collections (OIOC) at the British Library, also in London.
In 1859, following the Mutiny, all of the Honourable Company's regiments were absorbed into the British Army.
Note that many of your ancestors may have begun their lives in India in the British Army, then transferred to the Honourable Company's Army when they become too old or invalid for regular army work.
I don't know about the Army Records but the OIOC records are on FMP.
Just read this article - v interesting.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/dec/09/britishidentity.india
Thank you for starting this thread, Toni. I have enjoyed expanding my knowledge.
That's a very interesting article. Thanks Shona.
So.....I've lost track a bit - are we saying Toni's Lawrence lived 1750/1-1805 and finished up a Lieut Col in the Bengal Native infantry. He is not to be confused with his namesake (and probable relation, 1775/80 - 1850) who held the same rank in the 1st battalion the Royal Lancashire Militia?
Are we saying Toni's Lawrence lived 1750/1-1805 and finished up a Lieut Col in the Bengal Native infantry. He is not to be confused with his namesake (and probable relation, 1775/80 - 1850) who held the same rank in the 1st battalion the Royal Lancashire Militia?
I think so.
*crosses fingers*
I think so.
*crosses fingers*
lol :D:D:D
Just read this article - v interesting.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/dec/09/britishidentity.india
Thank you for starting this thread, Toni. I have enjoyed expanding my knowledge.
Very interesting article. Thanks
Thank you also for helping Shona.
So.....I've lost track a bit - are we saying Toni's Lawrence lived 1750/1-1805 and finished up a Lieut Col in the Bengal Native infantry. He is not to be confused with his namesake (and probable relation, 1775/80 - 1850) who held the same rank in the 1st battalion the Royal Lancashire Militia?
I am trying to prove that 'my' Lawrence is in fact mine. I have this feeling he is, and my feelings are usually right, but I would like to back it up. Then you can help me sort out all the other Lawrences. :)
I think I need to trace the nameless daughter and William to see if people I know to be mine start appearing as witnesses for them.
So first task is to work out her name again and to remember it. :rolleyes:
RAWSTORNE, Edward. (1745/46-1801) Major General.
Colonel Comdt. Cavalry.b 1745/6. Cadet 1764. Admitted
1 Sept. 1764. Ensign 6 March.1765. Lieut. 14 Dec. 1766. Capt.14 Oct.1769. Major 9 Jan.1781. Lt. Col 14 Feb 1787. Col. 3 May 1796. Maj. Gen. 1800. d. Berhampore 7 July 1801.
Eldest son of Rev.William Rawstorne,52 years rector of Badsworth,Yorks.and Elizabeth his wife,dau. of Samuel Walker,of Stapleton Park,Yorks. Brother of Lawrence Rawstorne q.v His daus. m. William INNES and Thomas WARD,qq.v.
Services: Sailed for India in the Vansittart 4 Mar. 1764,aged 18.Ensign 1st Bengal Eur.Regt.;resigned his Commissionduring the "Batta mutiny" 15 May 1766. Dismissed Jan. 1767 for his mutinous support of Sir Robert Fletcher q.v.:restored 7 July 1767.Capt. comdg.28th Bn Sepoys in Dec.1777; Capt. Comdt. of Kalpi fort in 1778. Apptd. to comd. 21st N.I. 1st Jan.1781; comdg.at Fatehgarh in June 1781; comdg.27th N.I. in Apr. 1786.Fur.30 Oct.1786 till 20 Aug. 1790. Lt.Col.comdg. 6th Eur.Bn. in Feb. 1796; transfd. as Col. to 2nd Bengal Eur.
Regt.1796. Apptd. Col. Comdt. of newly-formed Cav. Bde. of four regts. 2 June 1797;comdg. at Berhampore May 1799 till death.
Refs: Burks Landed Gentry,4th edn.,p.1255,s.n.
Rawstorne,of Penwortham Priory,Lincs. G.M. 1802, i. 584.
RAWSTORNE,Lawrence (1750/51-1805).Lieut. Colonel,4th N.I. b.1750/51.Cadet 1778. Arrived in India 2 Oct.1778.Ensign Oct.1778.
Lieut 20 Nov.1778.Capt.1 June 1796.Major 10 Aug. 1801. Lt. Col. 30 June 1804. d.Aligarh 16 Oct.1805.
2nd son of Rev. Rawstorne and Elizabeth his wife. Brother of Edward Rawstorne,q.v. m.(?) His dau. m.Charles PORTEOUS,q.v.
Services: Sailed for India in the Nassau 1 Mar. 1778,aged 27.Apptd.Adjt. 28 Bn.Sepoys 22 March.1780.Fur.16 Dec.1784. till Nov.1788. Lieut. 5th Bengal Eur.Bn. in Dec.1788 and in
1790; 12th Bn. Sepoys in 1792; 6th Eur. Bn. in Feb. 1796.Transfd. as Capt. to 5th N.I.; as Major to Bengal Eur.Regt.;as Lt. Col. to 2/4th N.I. (? Second Mahratta War;defence of
Delhi Oct. 1804; Lt.Col. comdg. 2/4th N.I.)
I read this to be that Elizabeth (the daughter) was the daughter of Lawrence, who may be my Thomas' father.
However reading this link: The Asiatic Annual Register (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=nR_5P8uJs3IC&pg=RA1-PA150&lpg=RA1-PA150&dq=lieutenant+charles+porteous&source=bl&ots=mmpzIhcyhj&sig=OoDFuPeWGCVMjdzJpxHnQXH9hcU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-tMPU9PYDMTFkwWwxYDQAg&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=lieutenant%20charles%20porteous&f=false)
says she is the daughter of late Major General Rawstorne, who is probably Edward above. I could not find a baptism, in India, for a daughter for Lawrence but there is one for Elizabeth, daughter of Edward.
News isn't looking good. Brother William has not given me any possible connections to Thomas. I'll have to go back to Elizabeth and hope. Otherwise I'm not going to have any links between them.
tenterfieldjulie
03-03-14, 08:06
Hope you find the connection Toni.
no luck proving a link. :(
I have people that just disappear, not die or marry but when they can not be found they are no help.
Any ideas on what to do now?
winsonsaw2003
02-11-19, 05:48
I am looking for a descendants of Major Charles Porteous(1776-1816) son of Alexander & Helen Bell,Perthshire.
Major Porteous were served in 20th Bengal Native Infantry regiment and were posted to Malacca in 1800'S.
He married Elizabeth Rawstorne of Penwortham Priory,Lancashire and had 7 seven children.His issue:-
i)Isabella Helen Porteous(1803-)married James Hay,20th Bengal Native Infantry Regiment.
ii) Sophia Mary Porteous(1804-1842)
iii) Charles Porteous(1806-1885 )married 1st Elizabeth Mary Stewart(born Johnston) & 2nd Emma Lyster.His issue:-
ai)Charles Alexander Porteous(1842- ) married Hester Grace Savage.His issue:-
bi) Charles Adolphus Porteous (1865- ).
bii))Hester Voilet Porteous (1868-1911) married Phillip Macklin Flannery.Their issue:-
ci) Minnie Voilet Flannery(1887-1920) married 1stly James Brown & 2ndly ? Greene.Their issue:-
di) ? Greene married Worsley.
dii) ? Greene married Francis Patrick Murphy.
cii) Philip Macklin Flannery(1891-?).
biii)Gertrude Henrietta Porteous (1872-)
biv)) Harold Malcolm Porteous (1874 -).
bv) Arthur Edgar Porteous (1876-).
bvi) Edith Beatrice Maud Porteous (1881 -).
aii)Elizabeth Mary Porteous(1845-1865) Unmarried.
aiii)John Porteous(1846)
aiv)Henrietta Adeline Porteous (1850)
av)Adela Sophia Porteous (1851 - ).
avi)Edward Anthony Porteous (1852-1860)
avii) Lawrence Stratford Porteous (1854)
aviii) Ida Adeline Porteous (1856)
aix)Agnes Emma Porteous (1857-1917) married Howard Benjamin Finch.Their issue:-
bi) Henry Wingfield Finch(1885-1917) married Gladys Mabel Slade.
bii)Arthur Howard Leicester Finch (1887-1944).
biii) Rev.Charles Edward Oscar Finch(1889-1983) married Winifred Mary Fisher.His issue:-
ci) Richard Michael Finch(1919-) married Mary E.M. Leech.His issue:-
names removed in case they are still living
ciii) Jocelyn Mary Finch(1922-2012) married name removed in case he is still living.Their issue:-
names removed in case they are still living
biv) Samuel William Swainson Finch (1891-1892).
ax)Clara Isabel Porteous (1860-1872)
axi) Henry Stratford Porteous(1862-1948) married 1st Fanny Riley and 2ndly Sarah Eleanor Kuhtze.His issue:-
ci) Charles Vivian Porteous (1885-1962) married Ellinor Jessie Hemingway.
names removed in case they are still living
dii) David Ian Porteous(1925 -1979) married ? Anderson.His issue:-
names removed in case they are still living
eii) David Charles Porteous (1957-1983)
diii)Mervyn Ronald Porteous(1929-1984).
cii)William Lyster Porteous (1886-1972) married Mabel Alice Wilds.His issue:-
di)Harold Lyster Joseph Porteous (1918-2007) married Anne Elizabeth Lethbridge.
ciii) Myrtle Louise Porteous (1892-1968).
civ) Agnes Milly Porteous (1894-1988) married Thomas Mugridge.Their issue:-
di) Alice Porteous Mugridge (1921-1995) married William Israel Moeraki Baker.
dii)Thomas Stratford Mugridge(1925-2006)
diii) Hugh Ronald Mugridge (1929-1994)
div) George Stephen Mugridge(1936-1998)
cv)Grace Trist Riley Porteous married Samuel Robert Young.
Their issue:-
names removed in case they are still living
ei) Loraine Grace Barlow (1952-1986).
dii) Robert Henry Young (1927-2005) married ?
names removed in case they are still living
iv)Elizabeth Ann Porteous(1809- ) married Capt.William Innes,12th Bengal Infantry
v)William Henry Alexander Moir Porteous(1810 -) married Cecilia Dozey.
vi) Frederic Edward Porteous (1812-1848 )
vii) Cecilia Sarah Bell Porteous(1815-) married 1st Arthur Ogilvie and 2ndly Lestock Boileau.Their issue:-
ai) Arthur Alexander Porteous Ogilvie (1846-1847).
aii) Henry Alexander Porteous Boileau(1854-1895) married Letitia Adolpina Cranenburg.She married 1stly to Francis E Pereira.
Please contact me at -
[email protected]
kiterunner
02-11-19, 10:33
winsonsaw2003, please note that our forum rules say not to post details of living people without their consent, so I have removed the names of some people from your post. If you have their permission to post their names, or if you know they are deceased, you can edit the post to put names back in, or ask me to do it.
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