Upstairs Downstairs in the family

[tenterfieldjulie]

I have been using the Census to find out more about my 2xgrtgrandparents children.

Emily Bryant, after she married Frederick William Perfect in 1882 at St. John's Battersea, did not have it perfect, but that is another story.

What has fired my imagination, is looking at the occupation of the people in a few surrounding streets in the Marylebone district London, where this rural girl moved to from Cornwall. Her address was 15 St. John's Wood Park Terrace.

Everyone seemed to have cooks and maids.. The gentry occupations were - member of the stock exchange, retired glass & lustre manufacturer (wouldn't I like to have looked in his glass cabinet!!) a wine merchant, a stock & share dealer, a landscape painter, an architect, a biscuit manufacturer employing 3300 people, a music publisher and an author of fiction (next door).

Emily's employer was Ann Green, aged 65 a widow and she doesn't supply an occupation, living with her is Fanny dau 31 unmarried, the cook and 2 house maids .. Emily 22 and another girl from Cornwall aged 16 from St. Teath which is where the Bryants moved to after Altarnun..

Wouldn't I love to have been there when they first went to London. Wouldn't it have been something else to have seen her letters when she wrote back to the family in Cornwall... Aah well I do have a vivid imagination .. but I love London now, but then !!.. aah well I'll just have to watch a movie ..

[Merry]

Ann Green was widowed in 1866. Her husband was Isaac Green, a saddler's ironmonger. Maybe a less interesting occupation than some of those others, but he must have done OK for himself as his estate was valued at 'under £30,000'!

[tenterfieldjulie]

I was thinking that to be living in that neighbourhood you must have had money .. but she might not be top draw lol (saddler's ironmonger - that would be making stirrups and bits for bridles, obviously saddles were in high demand though.). but maybe her calling cards weren't returned lol shades of Mrs. Bucket .. Thanks Merry. It would be interesting to know as to how the girls were recruited .. sometimes through the local vicar's recommendation .. or maybe Ann had a holiday in Cornwall

[Merry]

lol re Mrs Bucket!

Ann Green nee Sangster was the dau of Samuel Sangster who died in 1859 and whose estate was worth 'under £35.000'.

He is recorded as a gentleman or independent in various places, but some of his children's baptisms have him listed as a 'stick manufacturer', so "still trade" as my grandmother would have said!! lol

[Shona]

My great gran, Charlotte, was born in Tiverton in Devon in 1860, but ended up as a housemaid in Russell Square in London. Her sister and at least one brother also ended up in London. Back then, as it is now, London was a big magnet for people seeking work.

[tenterfieldjulie]

My Nan was a snob ... I think she thought Grandpa's family were gentry (lots of cobblers with that story) and being of Cornish/Welsh mining stock, she wasn't going to let the Kent gentry look down on her .. priceless memories..

[tenterfieldjulie]

This family member Emily Perfect nee Bryant had 5 children, she then left Frederick William Perfect (known as William in 1891 Census). He was a butcher in 1882 at their marriage but a gas stoker in 1891 Census, Emily left him and went back down to Cornwall with the 5 children to her aunt and mother. Strangely I think I have found him still living in Erith Kent with a wife Emily who in the 1911 census says they married about 1879. I haven't found this marriage. I'm thinking he took up this lady and pretended she was his wife who was living in Cornwall... Think I need more water with it lol

[Shona]

I've been reading lots about servants lately.

There were big Labour shortages in London, so that would have been a lure. Also, young men and women from rural areas were considered to be more industrious and easier to train up than their more savvy urban counterparts. Servants with their roots in the country were also less likely to run off home if the going got tough.

Both employers and servants seeking appointment advertised in a host of magazines. Personal recommendation from existing servants and others played a part. Employers often poached good staff from one another!

I read somewhere that a first job (as a 12 or 13-year-old) would be nearer the home parish and once they had a few years under their belt, they were ripe for work in a large town or city.

My great gran was working as a 'nurse girl' in 1871 for a butcher in the West Country. Come 1881, she was working for a wealthy feather manufacturer (still trade, Merry) in London.

[Merry]

I know I'm off on a tangent here, but it's quite interesting....

Ann Green's paternal family were umbrella and parasol makers to royalty:

http://londonstreetviews.wordpress.com/tag/umbrellas/

despite the fact that Ann's father Samuel Sangster was born illegitimately :eek: to Samuel Sangster who died in 1786. In Samuel senr's will he said his son Samuel was one of three children "of my body begotten on the body of Sarah Gotham" (widow) who he had married in 1781, about three or four years after Samuel jr was born.

I noticed Samuel jr was a Freeman of London by patrimony. Would his illegitimacy have had to be a secret for this to have been accepted?

[Asa]

My country born grandmother was in service from 1918-1931 (aged 14-27) and, as Shona says, started off locally (as a nursemaid) and then at a nearby castle as a fourth housemaid. When she was 16 she went to London as a housemaid. She stayed in most places for about 2 years. Certainly after the first job, she always found employment through agencies.

[Shona]

Same as my great-gran - began as a 'nurse girl'.

Agencies were important in recruitment, too.

[Olde Crone]

Merry

Fine shadings of illegitimacy I suspect - children who were illegitimate but acknowledged by their (wealthy? influential?) fathers always seem to jump the barriers in my experience.

OC

[Merry]

Good point, OC! Thanks.

[tenterfieldjulie]

Thanks ladies .. adds another depth to their lives.
I've just relooked at Frederick William Perfect Jnrs marriage 23/7/1913 at Wimbledon to Margery Monger and he says his father is Frederick William Perfect butcher deceased. Do you think this would be the truth or would it be because he didn't want to acknowledge his father .. oh and FWP Jnr was a chauffeur so he was in service too.

[Olde Crone]

I particularly noticed in my Scottish lot that all the farmer's children went off to be farm servants at another farmer's house. Took me ages to realise that they were in fact ALWAYS distant relations, not strangers. It also amazed me how far back some of the relationships went, when you consider no phone and probably scant literacy, they managed to keep in touch for generations.

OC

[tenterfieldjulie]

The kinship thing was alive in Australian rural communities too .. I don't know even know if they knew that there was a blood bond, just that those who had done well employed those whose families hadn't.

In the Depression Dad went woolclassing for distant family .. He didn't let on who he was, until somehow it filtered through and he was invited to eat with the family. I don't think the others in the shed thought much of it however.

The family also had a very spoilt son who was getting into all sorts of mischief until Dad threw him off the floor .. His mother was going to have a go at daring to reprimand her son .. until Dad stepped forward, then she said Oh well that's all right then !! Not quite sure why .. Maybe blood .. lol