Alice Holden

[kiterunner]

Name - "official" name and what they were known as Alice Holden
Date and place of birth 1784 Over Darwen, Lancashire
Names of parents Edmund Holden and Isabel nee Heap
Date and place of baptism - if applicable 29 Feb 1784 St James, Darwen, Lancashire
Details of each of his or her marriages - if any 15 Sep 1801 at St Mary the Virgin, Blackburn, Lancashire, to Roger Duxbury
Occupation(s) - if any Housewife
Addresses where they lived (including county if in UK) - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on (if s/he lived in census times!).
1802 - Hoddlesdon, Lancashire
1804 - Grimehills, Lancashire
1806 - Blacksnape, Lancashire
1815-1819 Longshaw Head, Lancashire
Date, place and cause of death May 1863 Cross, Oswaldtwistle, Lancashire
Date and place of burial. 26 May 1863 Immanuel, Oswaldtwistle, Lancashire
Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable Not found
Memorial inscription - if any Not found

Link to daughter's thread:
Peggy Duxbury (http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/Forum/showthread.php?t=14818)

[tenterfieldjulie]

Lots of trees on Ancestry .. connecting her to Oswaldtwistle

[ElizabethHerts]

Kate - is this her in 1861?

1861 Census
DUXBURY, Alice
BLACKBURN, Lancashire
RG09 piece 3107 folio 73 page 13
DUXBURY, Thomas Head Widower M 57 Grocer & Publican Lancaster Over Darwen
DUXBURY, Alice Mother Widow F 77 Lancaster Over Darwen
HOLDEN, Susannah Sister Married F 45 House Servant Lancaster Over Darwen
HOLDEN, Sarah Niece Unmarried F 12 House Servant Lancaster Haslingden
JOLLY, Catherine Sister In Law Widow F 61 House Servant Lancaster Oswaldtwistle
YATES, Isabella Lodger Married F 55 Farmers Wife Lancaster Over Darwen

Address:
9, The Cross Golden Cross Inn, Oswaldtwistle

[ElizabethHerts]

I found this burial:

Burial: 26 May 1863 Immanuel, Oswaldtwistle, Lancashire, England
Alice Duxbury -
Age: 80
Abode: Cross
Buried by: Fredk. J Owens Curate
Register: Burials 1837 - 1868, Page 185, Entry 1433
Source: LDS Film 1470816

[ElizabethHerts]

Baptisms for the Duxburys:

Baptism: 18 Dec 1802 Lower Chapel Independent, Darwen, Lancashire, England
Peggy Duxbury - [Child] of Roger Duxbury & Alice
Born: 18 Nov
Abode: Hodlesden
Baptised by: H.W.T.
Register: Baptisms 1796 - 1815, Page 16, Entry 350
Source: LDS Film 0560876

Baptism: 21 May 1804 Lower Chapel Independent, Darwen, Lancashire, England
Thos. Duxbury - [Child] of Roger Duxbury & Alice
Born: 7 Apr
Abode: Grime mills
Baptised by: H.W.T.
Register: Baptisms 1796 - 1815, Page 22, Entry 548
Source: LDS Film 0560876

Baptism: 8 Feb 1807 Lower Chapel Independent, Darwen, Lancashire, England
Isabel Duxbury - [Child] of Roger Duxbury & Alice
Born: 10 Dec
Abode: Blakesnp.
Baptised by: H.W.T.
Register: Baptisms 1796 - 1815, Page 30, Entry 810
Source: LDS Film 0560876

Baptism: 30 Apr 1815 Lower Chapel Independent, Darwen, Lancashire, England
Edmund Duxbury - [Child] of Roger Duxbury & Alice
Born: 4 Mar 1815
Abode: Longshawhead Over Darwen Blackburn
Baptised by: R. Blake Protest. Dissg. Minister
Register: Baptisms 1796 - 1815, Page 47, Entry 1633
Source: LDS Film 0560876

Baptism: 8 Jun 1817 Lower Chapel Independent, Over Darwen, Lancashire, England
Susanna Duxbury - Daughter of Roger Duxbury & Alice (formerly Holden)
Born: 4 Mar 1817
Abode: Longshaw Head Over Darwen Blackburn
Baptised by: R. Blake
Register: Baptisms 1815 - 1838, Page 35
Source: LDS Film 0560876

Baptism: 1 Nov 1819 Lower Chapel Independent, Over Darwen, Lancashire, England
Roger Duxbury - Son of Roger Duxbury & Alice
Born: 20 Jul 1819
Abode: Longshawhead Over Darwen Blackburn
Baptised by: James Welch
Register: Baptisms 1815 - 1838, Page 42
Source: LDS Film 0560876

Baptism: 1 Nov 1819 Lower Chapel Independent, Over Darwen, Lancashire, England
Roger Duxbury - Son of Roger Duxbury & Ailse
Born: 20 Jul 1819
Abode: Longshaw Head Over Darwen Blackburn
Baptised by: Parsons
Register: Baptisms 1815 - 1838, Page 42
Source: LDS Film 0560876


Thomas Duxbury's marriage:

Marriage: 26 Feb 1839 St James, Church Kirk, Lancashire, England
Thomas Duxbury - full age, Bleacher, Bachelor, Cross
Sarah Fish - full age, Servant, Widow, Cross
Groom's Father: Roger Duxbury, Farmer
Bride's Father: James Whitaker, Weaver
Witness: Robert F Dyson; Jane Whitaker, (X)
Married by Banns by: Joseph Wood
Register: Marriages 1837 - 1847, Page 49, Entry 98
Source: LDS Film 1470823


I had these records open on my computer as I was researching my Hindles etc from Church Kirk yestereday.

[kiterunner]

Thanks for that, Julie. They all have her born about 1783, parents unknown, and dying 21 May 1863 at Oswaldtwistle. That death is on Lancs BMD with age 80, but there are a few other possibles on there:
1854 Blackburn age 73, 1854 Darwen age 75, 1860 Darwen age 82, 1863 Blackburn age 78. The burial of the 1854 Blackburn one is on Lancs OPC and she is widow of James, the 1863 Blackburn one is wife of John, the 1863 Oswaldtwistle one just says "abode Cross".

This is presumably the Alice who died in Oswaldtwistle, on the 1861 census:
9 The Cross, Golden Cross Inn, Oswaldtwistle, Lancashire
Thomas Duxbury Head Widr 57 Grocer & Publican Lancaster Over Darwen
Alice Do Mother Wid 77 Do Do
Susannah Holden Sister Mar 45 House Servant Do Do
Sarah Do Niece Un 12 Do Do Do Haslingden
Catherine Jolly Sister in Law Wid 61 Do Do Do Oswaldtwistle
Isabella Yates Lodger Mar 55 Farmers Wife Do Over Darwen

My Alice had a son Thomas born 1804 at Grimehills, Lancashire, so it looks promising. I will trace him back and see if it checks out.

[kiterunner]

Thanks, Elizabeth, I have those baptisms already. The Thomas marriage is looking good, just need to check it is the same Thomas as on the census.

[kiterunner]

Lancs BMD has a marriage between Susanna Duxbury and John Holden 1843 at Bolton St Peter. My Alice had a daughter Susanna born 1817, so it all seems to fit. Maybe John Holden will turn out to be related to Alice.

[kiterunner]

Lancs BMD has the birth of a Sarah Ann Holden 1846 at Darwen, MMN Duxbury.

[ElizabethHerts]

Baptism: 8 Feb 1807 Lower Chapel Independent, Darwen, Lancashire, England
Isabel Duxbury - [Child] of Roger Duxbury & Alice
Born: 10 Dec
Abode: Blakesnp.
Baptised by: H.W.T.
Register: Baptisms 1796 - 1815, Page 30, Entry 810
Source: LDS Film 0560876

I wonder if this is Isabella Yates??
I haven't found a marriage.

[kiterunner]

Could be, Elizabeth.

Ooh, there is an Alice Holden baptised 29 Feb 1784 at St James, Darwen, daughter of Edward and Izabel, abode Over Darwen. The parents' names fit nicely with the names of Roger and Alice's children, as the first two were named after Roger's parents and then the next two are Isabel and Edmund. The only trouble is there is a big gap between those two so there could be a few more boys who I haven't found! But I will pencil this baptism in and hope to find something to prove it.

[kiterunner]

This is the 1851 census entry:
Golden Cross, Oswaldtwistle, Lancashire
Thomas Duxbury Head Mar 46 Inn Keeper Lancash Over Darwen
Sarah Do Wife Mar 56 Inn Keeper's Wife Do Over Darwen
Lucindafor(?) Do Daur U 20 Do Oswaldtwistle
Alice Do Mother Widow 66 Do Do

[kiterunner]

Hmm, baptism for Lucinda Fish, 26 Sep 1830 St James, Church Kirk, Lancashire, illegitimate daughter of Sarah Fish, single woman, abode Cross (from Lancs OPC.) Sarah must be Sarah Whitaker who married Peter Fish 6 Mar 1828 at St James, Church Kirk, and there is the burial of a Peter Fish, age 20, son of Peter Fish, abode Cross, 7 Jul 1828 St James, Accrington. It seems a bit funny to describe Sarah as a single woman rather than widow, and Peter as the son of someone when he was a married man, but I guess these must be them.

[kiterunner]

Thomas is at Cross on the 1841 census:
Thomas Duxbury 35 Inn Keeper Y
Sarah Do 40 Y
Lucinday Do 10 Y

But I haven't found Alice in 1841 yet. Can anyone spot her, please?

[kiterunner]

Lancs BMD has the birth of a Sarah Ann Holden 1846 at Darwen, MMN Duxbury.

I don't think this is the right Sarah now, as I think this is the right family in 1851:
Turton, Lancs
John Holden Head Mar 35 Agr Lab Entwistle Lancs
Susanna Do Wife Mar 34 Darwen Do
Edward Do Son U 12 Hand Loom Weaver Entwistle Do
Mary Do Daur 7 Scholar Adlington Do
Alice Do Do 4 Do Do Do
Sarah Jane Do Do 2 At Home Do Do

In 1861 Susanna and Sarah are away, which fits with them being with Thomas Duxbury:
Higher Crow Trees, Entwistle, Lancs
John Holden Head Mar 46 Platelayer & Farmer of 9 Acres Lancs Entwistle
Edward " Son Un 22 Clerk at Railway Station " "
Mary " Daur Un 17 House Maid " Adlington
Alice " Daur Un 14 " " "
Thomas " Son 7 Scholar " Turton
John " Son 3 " Entwistle.

I've found the children's baptisms on Lancs OPC and Edward is down as Neddy, son of Susanah Duxbury.

[ElizabethHerts]

Just throwing this into the mix.

Perhaps Isabella married John Jackson, was widowed, then married Joseph Yates. I found a Joseph Yates, married, ag lab, on the 1861 census.

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1839
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
JACKSON John DUXBURY Isabella Darwen, St Peter (formerly Holy Trinity) Blackburn CE27/1/11



Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1858
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
JACKSON Isabella YATES Joseph Farnworth & Kearsley Parish Church, St John The Evangelist Bolton 27/2/464

1861 Census
YATES, Joseph
BOLTON, Lancashire
RG09 piece 2818 folio 12 page 17
Round Barn, Entwistle
FISH, Betty Head Widow F 79 House Keeper & Farmer Of 6 Acres
Entwistle, Lancashire
YATES, Joseph Boarder Married M 46 Agricultural Labourer Entwistle, Lancashire
WHITEHEAD, William Boarder Married M 42 Wheelwright Entwistle, Lancashire

[kiterunner]

Those marriages are both on Lancs OPC, Elizabeth, and Isabella Duxbury's father is down as James Duxbury, labourer, while Isabella Jackson is 24, a spinster, father William Jackson, farmer.

[ElizabethHerts]

Back to the drawing board, Kate.

I do find Lancashire folk confusing. All mine and OH's seem to have surnames that half the village had and distinguishing them gives me a headache.

You would think that Christopher Hindle would be a nice, easy name to research - Wrong! :d

[tenterfieldjulie]

Tell me about it .. I thought Pogson would be simple .. there are squillions of them .. all naming their sons after their ancestors ..

[ElizabethHerts]

Thomas is at Cross on the 1841 census:
Thomas Duxbury 35 Inn Keeper Y
Sarah Do 40 Y
Lucinday Do 10 Y

But I haven't found Alice in 1841 yet. Can anyone spot her, please?

I keep on looking at this one - interesting names, but not sure.

1841 Census
DUXBURY, Alice
BOLTON, Lancashire
HO107 piece 537 folio 7/7 page 9
Old Lane Whittleston Head, Bolton, Entwistle
DUXBURY, Alice F 50 Weaver Lancashire
DUXBURY, Susannah F 20 Weaver Lancashire
DUXBURY, Roger M 20 Weaver Lancashire
DUXBURY, Oliver M 15 Lancashire
DUXBURY, Edmund M 10 Lancashire
DUXBURY, Michal M 2 Lancashire

[ElizabethHerts]

There is this marriage which might be Edmund:

Marriage: 4 Apr 1836 St Mary the Virgin, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Edmund Duxbury - Labourer, Bachelor, of this Parish
Jane Kay - (X), Spinster, of this Parish
Witness: Joseph Fairbrother; James Neville
Married by Banns by: Richard Burnet
Register: Marriages 1835 - 1837, Page 187, Entry 561
Source: LDS Film 1278808

Then on the 1841 Census:

1841 Census
DUXBURY, Edmund
BOLTON, Lancashire
HO107 piece 536 folio 11/37 page 2
Gilnow, Bolton, Bolton, Little
DUXBURY, Edmund M 25 Lab Lancashire
DUXBURY, Jane F 25 Lancashire
DUXBURY, Andrew M 7 Lancashire
DUXBURY, Alice F 4 Lancashire
DUXBURY, Roger M 2 Lancashire
DUXBURY, Oliver M 0 (1 MONTHS) Lancashire

[ElizabethHerts]

1851 Census
DUXBURY, Edmund
BLACKBURN, Lancashire
HO107 piece 2260 folio 228 page 37
Moor End, Oswaldtwistle
DUXBURY, Edmund Head Married M 36 Inn Keeper Darwen, Lancashire
DUXBURY, Jane Wife Married F 39 Darwen, Lancashire
DUXBURY, Andrew Son Unmarried M 16 Steam Loom Weaver Darwen, Lancashire
DUXBURY, Alice Daughter F 14 Entwistle, Lancashire
DUXBURY, Roger Son M 11 Scholar Darwen, Lancashire
DUXBURY, Oliver Son M 9 Scholar Bolton, Lancashire
DUXBURY, Mary Daughter F 8 Scholar Blackrod, Lancashire
DUXBURY, Martha Daughter F 4 Scholar Darwen, Lancashire
DUXBURY, James Son M 2 Turton, Lancashire

[ElizabethHerts]

I have found most of the births on UKBMD for Lancashire. With maiden name Kay.

[ElizabethHerts]

Not sure where Edmund is in 1861:

1861 Census
DUXBURY, Jane
BLACKBURN, Lancashire
RG09 piece 3106 folio 104 page 55
Branch Road, Oswaldtwistle
DUXBURY, Jane Head Married F 41 Over Darwen, Lancashire
DUXBURY, Andrew Son Unmarried M 26 Over Darwen, Lancashire
DUXBURY, Alice Daughter Unmarried F 24 Cotton Warper Over Darwen, Lancashire
DUXBURY, Roger Son Unmarried M 22 Cotton Power Loom Weaver Over Darwen, Lancashire
DUXBURY, Mary Daughter Unmarried F 18 Cotton Power Loom Weaver Blackrod, Lancashire
DUXBURY, Martha Daughter F 14 Over Darwen, Lancashire
DUXBURY, James Hen Son M 12 Turton, Lancashire
DUXBURY, Lucinda Daughter F 9 Oswaldtwistle, Lancashire
DUXBURY, Thomas Son M 8 Scholar Oswaldtwistle, Lancashire
DUXBURY, Mary Ann Daughter F 6 Oswaldtwistle, Lancashire

[ElizabethHerts]

Edmund might have died, despite Jane saying she is married.
There is a death in 1858 and also in 1859, then nothing for ages.

[ElizabethHerts]

This is the 1851 census entry:
Golden Cross, Oswaldtwistle, Lancashire
Thomas Duxbury Head Mar 46 Inn Keeper Lancash Over Darwen
Sarah Do Wife Mar 56 Inn Keeper's Wife Do Over Darwen
Lucindafor(?) Do Daur U 20 Do Oswaldtwistle
Alice Do Mother Widow 66 Do Do


Here is Lucindafer's marriage:

Marriage: 20 Nov 1856 St James, Church Kirk, Lancashire, England
James Bullough - full, Manufacturer, Bachelor, Baxenden
Lucindafer Duxbury - full, Spinster, Oswaldtwistle
Groom's Father: James Bullough, Manufacturer
Bride's Father: Thomas Duxbury, Yeoman
Witness: Walter Watson; Hannah Bullough
Married by Licence by: R N Featherston Offg Minister
Register: Marriages 1847 - 1859, Page 216, Entry 431
Source: LDS Film 1470822

[tenterfieldjulie]

Census - 1851 Thomas an Inn keeper
Marriage - 1856 Thomas a Yeoman
Interesting either Thomas was investing his profits or Lucindafer (what a wonderful name) didn't want to admit Dad was a publican . Julie

[ElizabethHerts]

Census - 1851 Thomas an Inn keeper
Marriage - 1856 Thomas a Yeoman
Interesting either Thomas was investing his profits or Lucindafer (what a wonderful name) didn't want to admit Dad was a publican . Julie

I find that fathers frequently overstate their social standing on marriage certificates. :D

[tenterfieldjulie]

I can't remember what I called my father's occupation, but I filled in the details. Isn't that interesting .. maybe I called him a farmer, maybe a grazier .. maybe both .. isn't that interesting I can't remember .. slaps wrist .. lol ... Julie

[ElizabethHerts]

Well, Lucindafer married well. She uses Lucinda after she married.

Here she is in 1891:

BULLOUGH, Lucinda Boarder Married F 60 1831 Living On Own Means Oswaldtwistle, Lancashire
Institution: Cavendish Hotel, Grand Parade Eastbourne

She seems to have married into an interesting family.

[tenterfieldjulie]

I wonder who owned the hotel .. maybe it was hers?

[kiterunner]

Maybe Lucinda gave her real father's occupation on her marriage cert? Thanks for all that info, Elizabeth; it's going to take some time to process!

[Olde Crone]

I haven't read the thread properly and I have to go out in a minute, but Merry alerted me to this thread and here is my quick reply!

I do have this Alice in my hobby tree but I'm afraid I don't know a lot about her. Her parents were Edmund Holden (born before 1765, Grimehills) and Izabel Heap and she had 10 siblings.

This is what I have written in my notes about Edmund Holden:

Who is Edmund? Also at Grimehills is Briggs Holden, whose children have very similar names. Are Edmund and Briggs related? Could Edmund be an illegitimate son of one of the daughters of Owd T) No baps found.

Owd T is Owd Timothy of the Looms, a locally famous gateway ancestor. Jeremy Hunt, a local oral historian had a book published in the late 1800s detailing genealogies of thousands of Darwen people who descend from OT and he was extremely accurate. He does not mention Edmund or Briggs and this might fit in with his ethos of "not telling anything unworthy" (Hunt was a very religious man and never mentions illegitimacy, simply leaves those people out).

There is a Duxbury website which is of varying accuracy (!) and I will fish out the link to that when I get home.

OC

[kiterunner]

Thanks for that, OC. Do you know how you know that Edmund was born at Grimehills, please?

[ElizabethHerts]

For your collection of Holdens at Grimes Hill (from FreeReg):

County Lancashire
Place Darwen
Church St James Parish Church, Lower Chapel Holy Trinity Monumental Inscriptions
Register Number
Burial Date * * 1869
Forename Edmund
Relationship husband of
Rel1MaleForename
Rel1FemaleForename Molly
Rel1Surname
Surname HOLDEN
Age 74
Abode Grimes Hill, Over Darwen
Notes Date died 20 Apr 1869
File Number 14298

County Lancashire
Place Darwen
Church St James Parish Church, Lower Chapel Holy Trinity Monumental Inscriptions
Register Number
Burial Date * * 1867
Forename Molly
Relationship wife of
Rel1MaleForename Edmund
Rel1FemaleForename
Rel1Surname HOLDEN
Surname HOLDEN
Age 66
Abode
Notes Date died 13 Feb 1867
File Number 14298

[Olde Crone]

I'm back.

I know this thread is about Alice Holden but if I don't put this here now I'll forget about it:

Information about Roger Duxbury and his ancestors, also his forward history here:

http://nightingaletree.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=nightingaletree&view=0&pid=188&rand=821785584

This is a collaborative tree worked on by 20 or so people all with Darwen interests. given that it is an internet sketch tree, it is quite accurate and certainly worth following.

This site:http://www.duxbury.plus.com/pdf/DescGeorge1610.pdf

needs to be treated with caution although I haven't looked at it for many years, at which point the new "owner" had promised to correct the errors.

[ElizabethHerts]

Oh wow, the first tree has 273 Hindles on it.
I'd be thrilled to find just one of mine on it.

Edit : mine aren't there. They are geographically just out of the area.

[ElizabethHerts]

Glad to see I got Edmund marrying Jane Kay right.

[kiterunner]

Ooh, interesting. Thanks, OC! I should probably mention that these people are my OH's ancestors, not mine, by the way.

[Olde Crone]

I'm not sure that Edmund WAS born at Grime Hills. In Jeremy Hunt's book, he says (in the chapter on Duxbury) that "he married the daughter of old Edmund Holden of Grimehills". Also, on the baptism of all the children of Edmund and Izabel, Edmund has the abode of Grimehills.

From my point of view, I think Edmund is a stray, that is, he is not a descendant of Owd Timothy. I had thought he was maybe the brother of Briggs Holden of Grimehills, who definitely WAs a grandson of OT, but on reflection (and another look!) I don't think he is. Naming patterns for one - his children don't have any "OT" names, like Timothy, Phoebe, Titus, Esther etc. He may of course be a cousin but I have to say that Edmund isn't a common name in Darwen Holdens. Where it occurs it is usually from the RC Holdens or else it has come in with the wife.

I think this might be Edmund's burial:

12 August 1817 age 59 of OD. (St Mary Blackburn).

I can't find a corresponding baptism, but if he was noncon/RC then that's not a surprise.

This may be significant:

21 December 1766 St Mary/Lower Darwen
Isable Heap d/o Edmund Heap and Margaret. Might mean there was an earlier Holden/Heap marriage and the name Edmund came from the Heap side.

Children of Edmund Holden and Izabel Heap: (baptism dates all Lower Chapel, all of Grimehills, except Catherine, no abode given)

Catherine 14 Apr 1782 (married James Duxbury)
Alice 29 Feb 1784
Betty 23 April 1786
Izabel 18 May 1788
Nancy 27 June 1790 (? m Thos Duxbury?)
John 16 Sept 1792
Edmund 7 Sept 1794 m 2 Jan 1816 Mary Orrell, 10 issue
Richard b/d 1796
Ann b 1798 d 1799
Ann 20 Jul 1800
Peggy 5 Aug 1804 ?m John Briggs?

Catherine first child might mean Edmund's mother was Catherine Holden, daughter of Owd T.

OC

[kiterunner]

Thanks very much, OC. Sorry, I misunderstood your "Edmund Holden, born before 1765, Grimehills" to mean that was where he was born.

[kiterunner]

OC, I was wondering about this baptism that is on Lancs OPC:
Neddy Holden, son of John and Mary, baptised 9 Dec 1758, St Mary the Virgin, Blackburn, abode Lower Darwen. Do you know whether he can definitely be ruled out?

[Olde Crone]

I'll check, Kate - I remember something about a Neddy, lol.

I am back to thinking that Edmund and Briggs WERE related. Briggs' parents were Thomas Holden and Jane Briggs and several of their children married Roger Duxbury's siblings. Speculation!

OC

[Olde Crone]

I can't rule Neddy in or out I'm afraid. It would be very nice if he had been the son of John and Mary of Over Darwen because then that would make him Briggs' cousin, but he was born much in advance of that marriage and I doubt he is theirs.

OC

[kiterunner]

Thanks for looking.

[Olde Crone]

Kate, there is a Will for Edmund Holden dated 1831, later grant 1853. I'm not sure how much help that might be, although ownership of the land might be a clue to his parentage.

(Lancs Wills index)

EDIT - of course, if Edmund DID die in 1817, this might not be his Will. I assume the date given in the index is when the Will was proved?

OC

[kiterunner]

Yes, the date on the index is when it was proved. There is an Edmund Holden buried 1827 but his abode is Blackburn. I will have a look on the Index to Death Duty Registers and see if it says who the executor was.

[kiterunner]

Ooh, interesting - administratrix Isabel Yates in 1831(yes, sadly it is an admon rather than a will), but any idea where she lived? I can only make out that the last part of it is "Lancaster".

I can't see an entry in the Index to Death Duty Registers for 1853 but maybe the death duties had been paid first time round.

[ElizabethHerts]

Is it Entwistle?

or Entwisle

[kiterunner]

Thanks, Elizabeth, I was about to come to the same conclusion after looking at the 1851 census! There is an Isabel Yates age 42, wife of George, living at Entwistle. So could be Isabella Duxbury but would a granddaughter have been granted administration when there were older relatives still alive? Maybe there is another Isabel(la) Yates in the family though.

[kiterunner]

Oooh, that George and Isabel Yates on the 1851 census have a Roger Duxbury age 32 with them, brother-in-law to George, so I think that settles it!

[Olde Crone]

Is that the Isabella Yates who is lodging with Thomas Duxbury at the Cross in 1861?

She may have applied for admon because she stood to gain, whereas the closer members of the family didn't have any financial interest in winding up Edmund's affairs.

OC

[kiterunner]

Yes, it looks like the same Isabel(la). Though of course there could be another Isabel Yates in the family.

[Olde Crone]

Isabel married George Yates in 1832, wonder if that was the trigger to obtaining admon?

OC

[kiterunner]

Isabel married George Yates in 1832, wonder if that was the trigger to obtaining admon?



That's interesting, OC. That 1832 marriage is on ancestry in the Manchester Marriages: Bolton le Moors, George Yates, otp, bachelor, and Elizabeth Duxbury, otp, spinster, married by banns 5 Mar 1832, witnesses John Yates and James Liptrot (serial witness). But if that is George and Isabella, then Isabella wasn't even a Yates in 1831 when admon was granted, so maybe it is a different Isabel Yates after all. :confused:

[Olde Crone]

Yes, and I have just come across another George Yates and Isabella, I think - this couple in Entwistle!

OC

[kiterunner]

Lancashire OPC has a marriage between a Joseph Yates, weaver, bachelor, of the parish of Blackburn, and Isabel Holden, spinster, of the same parish, 23 Apr 1810 St Mary the Virgin, Blackburn. One of Alice Holden's sisters was an Isabel, baptised 18 May 1788, so I wonder whether that could be her? Will see if the image is on ancestry.

[kiterunner]

No, doesn't seem to be. They have loads of Blackburn parishes but not that one.

[kiterunner]

But these baptisms of children of Joseph and Isabel Yates look good (again from Lancs OPC):
Edmund Yates 2 Jun 1811 St James Darwen, abode Over Darwen
Sarah Yates 12 Sep 1813 St James Darwen, abode Over Darwen, occupation weaver
Joseph Yates 23 Jun 1820 St Mary the Virgin, Blackburn, abode Entwistle, occupation weaver
George Yates 1 Feb 1822 St Anne, Turton, abode Entwisle, occupation weaver
Isabel Yates 26 Jul 1826 St Mary the Virgin, Blackburn, abode Entwistle, occupation weaver
Robert Yates 4 Sep 1829 St Anne, Turton, abode Entwisle, occupation weaver
Betty Yates 30 Dec 1832 Trinity Church, Over Darwen, abode Entwistle, occupation weaver.

So it looks likely that the Isabel Yates of Entwistle who was granted administration of Edmund Holden's estate in 1831 is his daughter, not granddaughter.

It would be neat if the George Yates who married Isabella Duxbury was the son of Joseph and Isabella, which would make him a cousin of Isabella Duxbury, but the ages don't fit.

[kiterunner]

On the 1851 census Joseph Yates is a widower so that would explain the need for a second grant of administration.
And on the 1841 census Joseph's wife Isabella is 53 which fits with the baptism of Isabella Holden.

[Olde Crone]

Oh, well done, Kate. I really should have known that anything involving the Holdens of Over Darwen wouldn't be straightforward!

OC