Joseph Gillmore

[Phoenix]

You may have noticed that the Lannings are not easy to trace.

Joseph Gillmore might be, but probably isn't, the son of Stephen Gillmore and Sarah nee Lanning.

He was born c 1854. I can't spot a birth on Freebmd.
He is with Stephen in 1861: http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=15067&highlight=gillmore

His mother is probably Alice (no marriage found to Stephen) and his aunt Mary A York.

I lose him in 1871.

He marries Alice Mills in St Saviour Southwark RD in 1879.

According to the 1911 census, when they are in Billericay, she has 7 children, all living.

The 1881 census: RG11 piece 393 folio 42 page 18
appears to be the most accurate, giving Joseph a bithplace in St Lukes and Alice in Bermondsey.

I lose them in 1891.

Can anyone find:


Joseph's birth/baptism
Joseph in 1871
Joseph in 1891

I found a William York possibly marrying a Mary Ann Mills, so I did wonder whether Joseph and Alice were cousins?

[ElizabethHerts]

This was the only one that looked likely geographically, but is too early.

Name: GILLMORE, Joseph
Registration district: Bethnal Green
County: London
Year of registration: 1850
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no: 2
Page no: 50

[Phoenix]

It's either than, or 1850 ish - and if he's on the 1861 census, I assume he was born before 1862!

I hate these Londoners who are so vague about age and birthplace!

[kiterunner]

Not sure whether you have the full details of Joseph's marriage to Alice? 3 Aug 1879 at St Mary Newington, both full age, bachelor and spinster, his occupation French Polisher, residence New Kent Rd, father Stephen Gillmore, painter, her residence Swan St, father William Mills, pensioner. Witnesses Thomas Thorn and Mary Ann Thorn.

[kiterunner]

Thomas Thorn married Mary Ann Mills 5 Jun 1876 at Holy Trinity, Newington, he full age, a bachelor, she a minor, spinster, both resident at New Kent Road, his father Thomas Thorn, porter, hers William Mills, letter carrier. Witnesses William J Mills and Sarah Mills.

[kiterunner]

On the 1881 census Thomas Thorn is 29, a hatter's warehouseman, born Lambeth, and Mary Ann is 25, born Newington.

[kiterunner]

So in 1871 Alice Mills and Mary Ann are both servants for a William Short in St Saviours Southwark:
1871 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/LNDRG10_595_597-0567/5268523?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d0%26gsfn%3dmary%26gsln%3dmi lls%26sx%3d%26f1%3d%26f2%3d%26f4%3d%26f18__n%3d%26 f12__n%3d%26rg_81004011__date%3d1856%26rs_81004011 __date%3d5%26f27%3d%26f14%3dsur*%26f15%3d%26_8000C 002%3d%26_80008002%3d%26_80018002%3d%26f7%3d%26f8% 3d%26f9%3d%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1%26db%3duki1871%26t i%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-d%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d10%26fsk%3dCIA AHcMAx1fe&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
Alice Mills Servant Unm 17 Domestic Servant Surrey Bermondsey
Mary Ann Do Do 15 Do Do Do

[kiterunner]

So this is the Mills family in 1861:
1861 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/SRYRG9_320_324-0410/6086952?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d0%26gsfn%3dalice%26gsln%3dm ills%26sx%3d%26f1%3d%26f2%3d%26f4%3d%26f18%3d%26f1 2__n%3d%26rg_81004011__date%3d1854%26rs_81004011__ date%3d2%26f27%3d%26f14%3d%26f15%3d%26_8000C002%3d %26_80008002%3d%26_80018002%3d%26f7%3d%26f8%3d%26f 9%3d%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1%26db%3duki1861%26ti%3d55 38%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-d%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d20%26fsk%3dCIA AIj8Aq3sd&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

West Street, Bermondsey
William Mills Head Mar 37 Letter Carrier Westminster
Ann Mills Wife Mar 33 Norfolk Thetford
William J Mills Son Un 13 Scholar St Georges East
George Mills Son 11 Do Newington
Sarah Mills Daur 9 Do Southwark
Alice Mills Daur 7 Do Do
Maryan Mills Daur 5 Do Do
Harriett Mills Daur 3 Do
Louisa A Mills Daur 8 mo Do

[kiterunner]

And I think this is them in 1851:
1851 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/SRYHO107_1580_1580-0651/994377?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d0%26gsfn%3dgeo*%26gsln%3dmi lls%26sx%3d%26f1%3d%26f2%3d%26f4%3d%26f18__n%3d%26 f12__n%3d%26rg_81004011__date%3d1850%26rs_81004011 __date%3d2%26f27%3d%26f14%3d%26f15%3d%26_8000C002% 3dwil*%26_80008002%3d%26_80018002%3d%26f7%3d%26f8% 3d%26f9%3d%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1%26db%3duki1851%26t i%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-d%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d10%26fsk%3dCIA AIpwAmrhW&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
2 Cottage Place, Camberwell
William Mills Head Mar 24 Trunk & Box Maker Surrey Lambeth
Maria Do Wife Mar 18 Hat & Bonnet Do Do
William J Do Son 2 Do Camberwell
George E Do Son 2 mo Do Do

There is also a James Mills 21 (box & packing case maker) with wife Rosina 19 at the same address.

[Shona]

He is with Stephen in 1861.

Who is the other Stephen Gillmore on the 1861 census at the same address - 22 Tottenham St, Marylebone?

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/MDXRG9_101_102-0103/8607534?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1861%26so%3d2%26pcat%3d35% 26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3d angs-c%26gsfn%3djoe%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dGilmour%26gs ln_x%3dNN%26cpxt%3d1%26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3df py%26cp%3d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

Stephen Gillmore, head, wid, 76, retired bootmaker, born Marlboro, Wilts.

The Stephen we are hunting for is listed as a lodger at the address, along with quite a lot of other people.

[kiterunner]

There is a James Mills, full age, carpenter, marrying a Rosina Pringle, minor, 24 Feb 1851 at St John the Evangelist, Lambeth. James's father is William Mills, carpenter, and the witnesses are W Mills and Isabella Mills.

So, there is this possible family in 1841 but the father's occupation is wrong:
1841 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/SRYHO107_1083_1084-0449/10494356?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d0%26gsfn%3disab*%26gsln%3dm ills%26sx%3d%26f1%3dSurrey%26f2%3d%26f3%3d%26f18%3 d%26rg_81004011__date%3d%26rs_81004011__date%3d0%2 6_82004011%3d%26_82004013%3d%26f7%3d%26f20%3d%26f8 %3d%26f9%3d%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1%26db%3duki1841%26 ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gl%3d%26gss%3drfs%26gst%3d %26so%3d3&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
Surrey Ct, St George The Martyr, Southwark
Wm Mills 40 Boot Maker Y
Harriett Do 40 Y
Wm Do 10 Y
James Do 10 Y
Isabella Do 5 Y

But no Alice or Mary Ann in this generation, or at least none at home. It is the right family for William jr and James because in 1851 William, Harriet and Isabella are making trunks, boxes, and boxes for bonnets, hats:
1851 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/SRYHO107_1573_1574-0389/897554?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d0%26gsfn%3disab*%26gsln%3dm ills%26sx%3d%26f1%3dSurrey%26f2%3d%26f4%3d%26f18__ n%3d%26f12__n%3d%26rg_81004011__date%3d1836%26rs_8 1004011__date%3d5%26f27%3d%26f14%3d%26f15%3d%26_80 00C002%3d%26_80008002%3d%26_80018002%3d%26f7%3d%26 f8%3d%26f9%3d%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1%26db%3duki1851% 26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gl%3d%26gss%3drfs%26gst% 3d%26so%3d3&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

[Phoenix]

I nip out for a box of eggs, and you do all this!

If the Alice who shacked up with Stephen Gillmore had been a Mills, she ought to have been with her parents in 1841 as she must have been a similar age to Isabella. So that probably means I am completely wrong in my assumptions.

Stephen Gillmore senior was Stephen's dad, Shona. He was at 23 Tottenham St for many years and that was where Stephen junior was born.

[Shona]

Stephen Gillmore senior was Stephen's dad, Shona. He was at 23 Tottenham St for many years and that was where Stephen junior was born.

Thanks.

[kiterunner]

Hmm, found this family in 1891:

1891 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/6598/MDXRG12_1068_1071-0051/15016675?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26rank%3d0%26gsfn%3dann* %26gsln%3d%26sx%3d%26f1%3d%26f2%3d%26f4%3d%26f18%3 d%26f12__n%3d%26rg_81004011__date%3d1880%26rs_8100 4011__date%3d2%26f27%3d%26f14%3d%26f15%3dshor*%26_ 8000C002%3djos*%26_80008002%3dali*%26_80018002%3d% 26f7%3d%26f8%3d%26f9%3d%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1%26db% 3duki1891%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-d%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d0%26h%3d15016675%26recoff%3d% 26ml_rpos%3d1%26hovR%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord)

6 Purling(?) Road, Tottenham
Joseph Davis Head Mar 37 French Polisher Kingsland
Alice " Wife Mar 37 Do
Anne " Daughr 10 Scholar Shoreditch
Joseph " Son 8 Do Do
Thomas " Son 6 Do Do
Alice " Daughr 2 Tottenham
Caroline Alice Borewick(?) Visitor Single 20 Ladys Maid Godstone Surrey

I have a vague feeling I saw the name Davis somewhere earlier on, will go back and check.

[kiterunner]

Not found where I saw Davis before (if I did!) but it must be the right family because here they are in 1901, in Enfield:
1901 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7814/MDXRG13_1270_1272-0808/7476498?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1901%26db%3d%26so%3d2%26ra nk%3d0%26gsfn%3djos*%26gsln%3dgil*m*r*%26sx%3d%26g s1co%3d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1%252c%2b%2 6year%3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d0%26sbor%3d%26ufr%3d 0%26wp%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26srchb%3dr %26prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-c&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
Joseph Gillmore Head M 46 French Polisher Midx London
Alice Do Wife M 45 Do Do
Anne Do Daur S 20 Packer (Chocolate) Do Do
Joseph Do Son S 18 French Polisher Do Do
Sidney Do Son S 17 French Polisher Midx London
Thomas Do Son S 15 Gardener (not Domestic) Do Do
Alice Do Daur 11 Do Enfield
Florie Do Daur 9 Do Do
Arthur Do Son 7 Do Do

[kiterunner]

There are loads of Joseph Davis birth registrations but he could possibly be the one registered Jul-Sep 1854 St Lukes.

[Phoenix]

Brilliant, Kite!

I saw Davis somewhere too. And I can't remember either!

[kiterunner]

Oh right, possible Robert York / Mary Ann Davies marriage Jan-Mar 1856 Newington district. Just switching computers and will then look into it...

[kiterunner]

Bother, found their marriages on ancestry and they didn't marry each other.

[Phoenix]

1841

Piece: 731 Book/Folio: 5/40 Page: 22
Registration District: Strand
Civil Parish: St Clement Danes
Municipal Borough: Westminster
Address: Stanhope Street, St Clement Danes, Westminster

MILLS, Josh M 40 1801 Middlesex
MILLS, Alice F 35 1806
MILLS, Mary F 15 1826 Middlesex
MILLS, Alice F 10 1831 Middlesex
MILLS, George M 7 1834 Middlesex
MILLS, Dinah F 5 1836 Middlesex
MILLS, Harriett F 2 1839 Middlesex

Dinah Mills is the mother of Caroline Alice Bonwick

[Phoenix]

this is Dinah in 1861:
1861 Census
MILLS, Diana
BERMONDSEY, London, Surrey
RG09 piece 321 folio 40 page 13
She is a servant, aged 23 b Drury Lane

[Phoenix]

It looks as if this is Mary Ann Mills' baptism:

Mary Ann Mills
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

christening: 5 March 1826 SAINT MARTIN IN THE FIELDS,WESTMINSTER,LONDON,ENGLAND

father: Joseph Mills
mother: Alice

[Phoenix]

Mary Ann in 1851:

YORK, William Head Married M 25 1826 Gas Fitter And Brass Finisher Green, Suffolk
YORK, Mary Ann Wife Married F 25 1826 St Martin in the Fields, Middlesex

[kiterunner]

Well done, Phoenix! I bet they are related to William Mills and his family somehow.

[Phoenix]

Aha!

This is William in 1851:

1851 Census
MILLS, William
NEWINGTON, Surrey
HO107 piece 1566 folio 595 page 3

He is a letter carrier, wife Ann AND younger brother George.

[kiterunner]

Ah, that fits nicely. So we need to find Alice Mills marrying a Davis, don't we?

[Phoenix]

So

Joseph Gillmore is the son of Alice Mills (d of Joseph & Alice)
In 1861 he is living with (among others) Mary A York (d of Joseph & Alice)
He marries Alice Mills (d of William, s of Joseph & Alice)
In 1891 he calls himself Davis & has visitor Caroline Alice Bonwick (d of Dinah, d of Joseph & Alice)

[kiterunner]

Yes. I can't find a marriage for Alice Mills I to a Davis though.

[Phoenix]

Ah, that fits nicely. So we need to find Alice Mills marrying a Davis, don't we?

I think Alice was probably as swift as Sarah Lanning in getting through relationships.

I can't see on freebmd for a marriage.

[Phoenix]

Alice calls herself Gillmore in 1861, when she ain't.
I assume she called herself Davis when Joseph was born, but possibly Mr D was long gone by that stage.

Of course, the alternative is that Joseph is running from creditors.

[kiterunner]

Yes, but there isn't a birth reg for Joseph under the name Gillmore and there is a possible under the name Davis. I can't see an obvious one for Mills. Got to go to bed now though!

[Phoenix]

Thank you for all your help, Kite. Without the Davis breakthrough, I'd still be floundering.

I'm fairly certain Joseph was only Stephen's stepson.

[Kangaroo]

I found a J Lanning (male) 34 years old born St Pancras and a french polisher. His wife is M Lanning 43 years and a char woman. Not sure if this is relevant. They are living at Finsbury, Clerkenwell at 26 Warner Street in 1881.

[Phoenix]

For the record, I think that Lanning may be a mistranscription.

1891 has HOLBORN, London
RG12 piece 225 folio 4 page 4

James Lennon French Polisher 50 b Norwich
Martha Lennon 52 b Marylebone
Caroline Stacey niece

1901 has
Martha Laming wid 63 b Norwich
Caroline Stacy niece

This is the marriage:

Marriages Jun 1871
LAMING James Pancras 1b 262
STIBBED Martha Pancras 1b 262

Caroline Stacy's mother was Caroline Stibbard.