Ontario, Canada, Death look up, please

[Sue from Southend]

Hi

Would sks with a Worldwide Ancestry sub be able to check a record for me, please?

Rhoda Daniels, died Wentworth, Ontario 1935. From what I can see her fathers name might be recorded and I'm hoping for James Jones!

Many thanks

[JBee]

John Jarvis ???

[JBee]

birthday 10 October 1863

mind you looking at the image - it might but only might be a Jones

Can send you the image if you pm your addy.

[Sue from Southend]

It doesn't sound likely does it? Although the dob is about right...

Have sent you a pm, just in case!

Thanks again

[Sue from Southend]

Thanks Julie,

Image gratefully received! It definitely looks like John Jarvis as her father but my Rhoda was also born in London c1863/4 (yes I know it's a big place, lol) Off to see if I can find a marriage for Rhoda Jarvis and Mr Daniels!

Edit: On closer inspection of the death record it states that she had been in Canada since 1907. My Rhoda was in Bethnal Green in 1911 so it seems unlikely that she died in Canada in 1935. I really thought that Ancestry's hints had thrown up something useful - I should've known better :rolleyes:

[Phoenix]

It has got to be Jones, surely?

Mary Jones & Rhoda Daniels M & D in 1891, Walter & Rhoda in 1901, Rhoda in 1911 and a Rhoda Daniels, unaccompanied by husband emigrating in July 1911.

[Sue from Southend]

It has got to be Jones, surely?

Mary Jones & Rhoda Daniels M & D in 1891, Walter & Rhoda in 1901, Rhoda in 1911 and a Rhoda Daniels, unaccompanied by husband emigrating in July 1911.

Ooh Phoenix you posted while I was editing my previous post!

Walter wasn't her husband, her husband was a Benjamin Daniels. She did have a brother Walter:eek:

[Phoenix]

Although, she is describing herself as single in 1891. Did she ever marry?

[Sue from Southend]

Lol, Phoenix we keep crossing! Yes she married Benjamin Thomas Daniels in 1888, Bethnal Green!

[Phoenix]

Okay. I am getting steadily more confused. What happened to Benjamin? What happened to her son Frederick?

[Sue from Southend]

I've been puzzling over Rhoda for years Phoenix! She was my grandmother's Aunt.

It looks as though Benjamin died in 1895. In 1891 Benjamin is in Stepney with his parents saying he is single. And as you correctly point out Rhoda is with her mother saying she is also single. A Frederick Daniels is baptised in 1900 @ Bethnal Green son of James (deceased) and Rhoda Daniels, abode 100 Brady St (same address as in 1891, Mary Jones, Rhoda's mother) Interestingly James is Rhoda's father's name.
Not sure who the father of Frederick is! or where Frederick went...

Just rechecked the 1901 census and Frederick is said to have been born in 1893 so he could have been Benjamin's son and I've been wrongly maligning Rhoda!

[tenterfieldjulie]

lol

[Sue from Southend]

I can't see a marriage between a Rhoda Jarvis and a Mr Daniels in the UK. Would someone be able to check the Ontario database on Ancestry for me please? If it exists the marriage would have been between 1911 and 1935!

Thanks

[JBee]

Seems marriages for Ontario only go up to 1928 and nothing is coming up.

[JBee]

There's a marriage in 1918 in Wentworth Ontario

of a Rhoda Evelyn Marshall to a Frederick Roy Daniels.

Her father is Thomas Marshall and mother Emma Jones
She was born c1900 at Hamilton

[Sue from Southend]

There's a marriage in 1918 in Wentworth Ontario

of a Rhoda Evelyn Marshall to a Frederick Roy Daniels.

Her father is Thomas Marshall and mother Emma Jones
She was born c1900 at Hamilton

Well it's the town that she died in, but on the death record Rhoda was said to have been born in London c1863. And it's yet another name (Marshall)

I'm getting more and more confused.

Thanks for looking again, Julie :)

[kiterunner]

The informant on her death certificate is a Mrs Geddes of the same address as her but not related, so she may not have known all the correct information. On the 1921 census of Canada Rhoda is a widow age 57 born England but there are no relatives with her.

I'm sure she must be the Rhoda Daniels, widow, who travelled to Canada from England in 1911 age 45.

[Sue from Southend]

Thanks for the census info Kite.

It seems very likely that the Rhoda Daniels who died in 1935 is "mine".

Would she have had to fill in her birth details on emigrating to Canada? If so are they available on line anywhere?

[Sue from Southend]

I've found the Passenger list for the ship on which Rhoda Daniels sailed.

Rhoda is the 9th entry down the list. I can't read the headings of each column but can guess from the entries but the entry for Rhoda in the third large column headed "If So" is baffling me! I think it reads "S Army" (did the Salvation Army fund emigrants?) then there's a slash, word, another slash, another word. It's these words I can't make out. Can anyone else decipher them? I hope the link works!

http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e143/e003571844.jpg

[kiterunner]

The columns are headed If so - When, Where, How Long, but I think this refers to column 10 "Have you ever been in Canada before?" and she says No to that so I think they are using columns 11 12 and 13 for something else. It does look like S Army and then to ??? / farm. It looks to have been written over something else.

[Sue from Southend]

I wondered if the second word might be friend or family (abbreviated)? But that might be wishful thinking influencing me as Rhoda had a nephew that emigrated to Ontario earlier in 1911!

[kiterunner]

Looking at some more, I think the slash is from the original writing that has been written over.

And could it say "to son farm" (first of the attached images)? The entries that say who they are going to, do have that person's occupation after the relationship.

The second of these is definitely "to son" from an unrelated entry on the previous page, for comparison:

[Sue from Southend]

I can see what you mean Kite.

Rhoda's son was born abt 1893 which would have meant he was only 17yrs old in 1911. I suppose Rhoda could have been stretching the truth a bit about the farm. She doesn't seem to have worried about the odd "white lie" before!

There are a few Frederick Daniels leaving for Canada on FMP - I'll see if I can find passenger lists for them with more details.

[JBee]

OH's father was sent out to Canada with the Salvation Army in 1924 as a 15 year old to work on farms in Ontario. So perhaps they sent groups of adults too.

I got information from the Salvation Army in Toronto about his first 3 years and the farms he worked at. Pity they couldn't tell me about the next 12 years he was in Canada.

[Sue from Southend]

That's interesting Julie. What made him come back to the UK? Assuming he did and that your OH isn't Canadian!

I don't think Rhoda was going out to work on a farm - she gives her occupation as dressmaker and claims that she was going to continue as such in Canada. Again, if she is my Rhoda she's stretching the truth - she was an "upholstery trimmings maker"!

I've had a look at the detailed passenger lists for the Fred. Daniels that appear on FMP. Sadly all of them are too old to be Rhoda's son. I did get quite excited when I saw that one of the ships had over 300 Dr Barnardos children on board but he wasn't one of them :(

I think I'm running out of places to look now and doubt if I'll ever know for sure whether Rhoda emigrated to Canada!

[kiterunner]

There is a Frederick Daniels age 17 born Bethnal Green on the 1911 census of England, at 6 Wellington Row, Bethnal Green, nephew of a George Bond 55 and they are inkstand makers. Is that your Frederick?

[Sue from Southend]

I don't think so Kite. George Bond would appear to have married a Gertrude Jones, daughter of Joseph, neither which are mine.

[kiterunner]

Was your Rhoda's birthday 10th October, to match the death registration?

There is a Fred Daniels at Burford, Brant, Ontario, on the 1911 census of Canada, age 19, born England, Mar 1892, immigrated to Canada 1908, occupation farm labourer. It says nationality Canadian. I think Rhoda's nationality was shown as Canadian somewhere too. There must be some Canadian nationalisation records somewhere, but I don't know whether they are available online or at all. Maybe one day they will be though.

[Sue from Southend]

Was your Rhoda's birthday 10th October, to match the death registration?

There is a Fred Daniels at Burford, Brant, Ontario, on the 1911 census of Canada, age 19, born England, Mar 1892, immigrated to Canada 1908, occupation farm labourer. It says nationality Canadian. I think Rhoda's nationality was shown as Canadian somewhere too. There must be some Canadian nationalisation records somewhere, but I don't know whether they are available online or at all. Maybe one day they will be though.

I don't have Rhoda's exact dob. She was born in that qtr 1863 though so it does look very promising ( I hadn't thought to check that, so thanks for the prompt,Kite :o)

I did a find Canadian Naturalizations index here http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/naturalization-1915-1932/001055-100.01-e.php?PHPSESSID=337a2gf5stj3cu8533i3jdbib2

but nothing comes up for either name sadly. There's a Frederick Daniels on a passenger list to Portland, USA in 1908. I'll see if I can find more about him.

[Sue from Southend]

The ship to Portland, USA called in at Halifax, Nova Scotia first carrying a large number of Dr Barnardo's Home Boys. Frederick Daniels was one of these. However that's all the record tells me apart from the final column which I think names their ultimate destination in Canada which I think looks like Hamilton, Ontario. Which is where Rhoda died.

http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e149/e003700606.jpg

Now I am clutching at straws!

[kiterunner]

Yes, it looks like Hamilton, Ont.

[Sue from Southend]

Just had a look at a map of Ontario. Hamilton and Burford (Frederick's abode 1911) are 56kms/34miles apart.

It's looking more and more likely!

[Janet]

I did a find Canadian Naturalizations index here http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/naturalization-1915-1932/001055-100.01-e.php?PHPSESSID=337a2gf5stj3cu8533i3jdbib2

Thank you, Sue! I've been looking for my Aunt Hilda for such a long time because I knew after she emigrated from the UK to the U.S. and was naturalized here, she went and lived in the Toronto area and took out citizenship there too, having then dual citizenship U.S./Canada.

I had seen references to one and only one Hilda Berry over the years in various places I poked around in, but it always said this person was from Hungary. I don't even know where I saw it. Certainly nowhere that I could view the source they took it from.

Now that I can see the page it's on, Hungary is for the fellow on the line below; and there is my Aunt Hilda plain as the nose on your face, U.S.A., Dec. 21, 1932, music student, Toronto, Ont. Yes!!! :)

So keep looking, and don't trust anything they've transcribed! :rolleyes:

[kiterunner]

Frederick's naturalisation should be before the date when that index starts, and Rhoda's could be too.

[Sue from Southend]

I had seen references to one and only one Hilda Berry over the years in various places I poked around in, but it always said this person was from Hungary. I don't even know where I saw it. Certainly nowhere that I could view the source they took it from.

Now that I can see the page it's on, Hungary is for the fellow on the line below; and there is my Aunt Hilda plain as the nose on your face, U.S.A., Dec. 21, 1932, music student, Toronto, Ont. Yes!!! :)

So keep looking, and don't trust anything they've transcribed! :rolleyes:

Glad something definite came from this search :d


Kite, I found this on the same website -

From 1763 until the Canadian Citizenship Act [http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showtdm/cs/C-29] came into force on January 1, 1947, , people born in Canada were British subjects. Thus, immigrants born in Great Britain and the Commonwealth, being British subjects by birth, had no need to be naturalized or to obtain British citizenship in Canada.

Quite why some UK born immigrants (such as Janet Aunty Hilda) felt the need to do so will probably remain a mystery!

[Janet]

Glad something definite came from this search :d


Kite, I found this on the same website -

From 1763 until the Canadian Citizenship Act [http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showtdm/cs/C-29] came into force on January 1, 1947, , people born in Canada were British subjects. Thus, immigrants born in Great Britain and the Commonwealth, being British subjects by birth, had no need to be naturalized or to obtain British citizenship in Canada.

Quite why some UK born immigrants (such as Janet Aunty Hilda) felt the need to do so will probably remain a mystery!

What a good question, Sue. Something else to chew on now. :confused:

[Langley Vale Sue]

I don't know if this is relevant about Canadian citizenship but my Dad was born in Canada in 1921 to a Welsh-born immigrant mother and a Canadian father. Dad had a Canadian passport which meant when he travelled to USA he didn't need a visa or the same documentation as my English born Mum. I remember Mum telling me she had to use different gates from my Dad at the airport. This would have been in the 1960s/1970s.
Dad said that although he was entitled to a British passport, keeping his Canadian one was more convenient for North American travel.