Smith and Dennis

[Merry]

BK6 updated from this thread

Mary Smith appears on the 1851 census with her "granddaughter" Elizabeth Dennis aged 3.

Here they are:

Mary Smith 1851 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/BDFHO107_1751_1751-1110/4377481?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1851%26MS_AdvC B%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26 gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dmary%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dsmith%26gsln _x%3d1%26gskw%3dkempston%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%2 6catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3d672%26cp%3d11%26pcat%3d 35%26fh%3d0%26h%3d4377481%26recoff%3d8%2b9%26ml_rp os%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord)

Mary married John Smith at Kempston in 1799. I know they had a daughter, Emma Smith in about 1801, but only because Emma's grandson (William Fyson Spalding aged 9) was with Mary in 1861. He was listed as grandson instead of great-grandson, so it's quite possible Elizabeth is also a great-grandchild!

So, can anyone else work out the link? I keep going round in circles. :)

[kiterunner]

We had a go at Elizabeth Dennis on this old thread - see post #27 in particular. I think that was the solution? Or a pointer to it, at least.

http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=6679

[kiterunner]

So Emma Smith married William Spalding 28 Dec 1824 St Paul, Bedford, and this is them in 1841 but very faint on ancestry. (Halfway down left hand page) The transcriber says the oldest child is Mary age 11, so perhaps she is Elizabeth's mother. Maybe the copy on FMP will be clearer?

1841 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/BDFHO107_9_10-0221/3836985?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26rank%3d0%26gsfn%3dwil* %26gsln%3dspalding%26sx%3d%26f1%3dBedfordshire%26f 2%3d%26f3%3d%26f18%3d%26rg_81004011__date%3d%26rs_ 81004011__date%3d0%26_82004011%3d%26_82004013%3d%2 6f7%3d%26f20%3d%26f8%3d%26f9%3d%26gskw%3d%26prox%3 d1%26db%3duki1841%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3d angs-d%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d0%26h%3d3836985%26recoff%3d8% 2b9%26ml_rpos%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord)

[kiterunner]

Oh, or there is this family in 1851 - could be the same Mary Spalding, and if so then William is her older brother so maybe he and his wife (Elizabeth) are Elizabeth's parents?
1851 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/MDXHO107_1489_1489-0047/17862604?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d0%26gsfn%3dmary%26gsln%3dsp alding%26sx%3d%26f1%3d%26f2%3d%26f4%3d%26f18__n%3d %26f12__n%3d%26rg_81004011__date%3d1830%26rs_81004 011__date%3d5%26f27%3d%26f14%3d%26f15%3d%26_8000C0 02%3d%26_80008002%3d%26_80018002%3d%26f7%3d%26f8%3 d%26f9%3d%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1%26db%3duki1851%26ti %3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gl%3d%26gss%3drfs%26gst%3d%2 6so%3d3&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

[kiterunner]

That William Spalding is 14 in 1841 and not with his family (halfway down right hand page):
1841 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/BDFHO107_9_10-0510/3844729?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26rank%3d0%26gsfn%3dwil* %26gsln%3dspalding%26sx%3d%26f1%3d%26f2%3d%26f3%3d %26f18%3d%26rg_81004011__date%3d1826%26rs_81004011 __date%3d5%26_82004011%3d%26_82004013%3d%26f7%3d%2 6f20%3d%26f8%3d%26f9%3d%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1%26db% 3duki1841%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-d%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d8%26h%3d3844729%26recoff%3d9% 2b10%26ml_rpos%3d9&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord)

[kiterunner]

This marriage looks right for the 1851 couple as his occupation is Valet, and his middle name matches the grandson you mentioned, and the father's occupation on the marriage cert matches William sr on the faint 1841 census entry, so it all fits together:

marriage ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31280_198793-00168/4021376?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dLMAmarriages%26db%3d%26so%3d2 %26rank%3d0%26gsfn%3dwil*%2b%253fyson%26gsln%3dspa lding%26sx%3d%26gs1co%3d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs 1pl%3d1%252c%2b%26year%3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d0%2 6sbor%3d%26ufr%3d0%26wp%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_800 00003%26srchb%3dr%26prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3 d0%26gss%3dangs-b&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

[kiterunner]

Oops, except the date of the marriage is 1850, William is a bachelor, and Elizabeth Dennis Spalding was born 1848. So perhaps Emma is her mother after all?

[kiterunner]

Elizabeth Spalding is a servant in 1861 but I don't think the family she works for are relatives:
1861 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/BDFRG9_989_992-0066/23613216?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d0%26gsfn%3deli*%2b%26gsln%3 dspalding%26sx%3d%26f1%3d%26f2%3d%26f4%3d%26f18%3d %26f12__n%3d%26rg_81004011__date%3d1848%26rs_81004 011__date%3d2%26f27%3d%26f14%3d%26f15%3d%26_8000C0 02%3d%26_80008002%3d%26_80018002%3d%26f7%3d%26f8%3 d%26f9%3d%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1%26db%3duki1861%26ti %3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gl%3d%26gss%3drfs%26gst%3d%2 6so%3d3&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

[kiterunner]

William and Emma Spalding in 1861 with son Jonathan 25, daughter Emma 17 and grandson Charles 7:
1861 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/BDFRG9_983_989-1174/23611819?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d0%26gsfn%3demm*%26gsln%3dsp alding%26sx%3d%26f1%3d%26f2%3d%26f4%3d%26f18%3d%26 f12__n%3d%26rg_81004011__date%3d%26rs_81004011__da te%3d2%26f27%3d%26f14%3d%26f15%3d%26_8000C002%3d%2 6_80008002%3d%26_80018002%3d%26f7%3d%26f8%3d%26f9% 3d%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1%26db%3duki1861%26ti%3d5538 %26ti.si%3d0%26gl%3d%26gss%3derror%26gst%3d%26so%3 d3&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

[kiterunner]

Maybe William and Emma had another child, perhaps older than William, and that child is Elizabeth Dennis Spalding's parent. They got married in 1824 and William was born about 1826 so there is a gap where they could have had another child. Unfortunately there don't seem to be any online baptisms for the Spalding family to check.

[Merry]

Sorry Kate, I got caught up with checking I had all the Maynard Bedford jail records added to the right people on my tree - Blame Shona! lol :D

I never dreamt we had done this before, so didn't check! I don't remember that birth reg at all!! (very remiss of me not to add anything to me tree about it)

I have these Spalding children:

Martha 1825 married Wm Terrey in 1843
William Fyson 1826 didn't marry until 1850 (father of the other Wm F Spalding who is with g-granny in 1861)
Mary 1829
Fyson 1832 unmarried at last sighting in 1851
Jonathan 1835
John Sutton 1838
Rachel Sutton 1840
Emma 1844

So, as you said, Mary looks the most likely candidate to be the mother of

Spalding Elizabeth Dennis Bedford 6 34

given that William wasn't married when she was born.


I'm beginning to wonder if Emma Smith, dau of Mary and John was an only child.

That thread you directed me to had a birth record for Emma on it which is not on my tree, so I'm going to add that now and see if there are any more. :o:o:o

Thanks for your help, Kate! :)

[Merry]

Maybe William and Emma had another child, perhaps older than William, and that child is Elizabeth Dennis Spalding's parent. They got married in 1824 and William was born about 1826 so there is a gap where they could have had another child. Unfortunately there don't seem to be any online baptisms for the Spalding family to check.

Yes, they did, Martha, but she was married by the time Elizabeth was born.

[Merry]

Looking at the non-con records on Ancestry there do not appear to be any siblings for Emma Smith. Perhaps her father died young. Not sure I'm up for investigating the death of a John Smith! lol

[Shona]

Looking at the 1851 census page for Mary and her grand daughter, Elizabeth, I noticed that there were a couple of other widows with grand daughters who were neighbours. On the previous page, it's nearly all widows in two-person households with either a servant or grandchild. It's similar on the page before that one, too. V odd. Almshouses?

[Merry]

Looks like they are Dame Alice Street Almshouses.

Thanks Shona, I'd not noticed the relationships and had just entered the street name as Dame Alice St. *amends*

[Uncle John]

Looks like they are Dame Alice Street Almshouses.

Thanks Shona, I'd not noticed the relationships and had just entered the street name as Dame Alice St. *amends*

Still there - I pass them on the bus into town. They were sold off about 5 years ago - too expensive to bring up to modern standards.