John Drake

[Kit]

My lovely new contact has inspired me to start searching this line again.

This is what I know. John Drake married Maria Story on 7 December 1805 at Bloomsbury St George, Camden. John Drake marriage (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31280_195171-00120/2517214?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dlmamarriages%26so%3d2%26pcat% 3dBMD_MARRIAGE%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1 %26MSAV%3d2%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3ddrake%26gsln_x%3d1%26uidh% 3de35%26mssns0%3dstory%26mssns0_x%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

John died 24/6/1867. Age at death is stated to be 82 years. ie YOB 1784. John Drake burial (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1559/31547_212658-00426/10086311?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dlmadeaths%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dB MD_DEATH%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26rank%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSA V%3d2%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26gsfn%3djohn%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3ddrake%26gsln _x%3d1%26uidh%3de35&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

John was commissary general and lots can be found in newspapers about him and his children.

On the 1841 census HO107; Piece 219; Folio: 6; Page: 6; it says he was born in Devon, age 58.

On the 1851 census HO107; Piece: 1493; Folio: 702; Page: 23 he was born Exmouth Devon age 68

On the 1861 census Exmouth Devon aged 78. RG9 Piece 97 folio 89 Page 1

Census age is consistent but age at burial is out. It is his burial though as there are newspaper items.

What I want to know is who John's parents are.

There is a familysearch entry saying his DOB is 11/11/1782 and baptism date is 24/9/1784 at Withycombe Raleigh, Devon. Parents John and Sarah.
( Indexing Project (Batch) Number C05217-1 System Origin England-ODM
GS Film number 917557 ) I don't know if that is an extracted record though.

I have seen other trees that say the parents are John Drake and Sarah Chadder but can't prove that either.

[kiterunner]

All the records on FamilySearch are extracted ones now unless you are searching the IGI or the family trees etc.

[Shona]

Do the names of the children provide any clues?

[Kit]

Thanks Kate.

Shona I don't think so but here they are:

John Minshull b 1807
William Henry b 1809 d 1810
William Henry b 1812
Caroline Drake b 1816
Charlotte Augusta b 1818
Maria Harriet b 1821

I can find no Minshull in the family anywhere to explain John's middle name.

[Kit]

This may confuse everything but I found this transcription that contains details of John snrs family. Transcription (http://www.xroyvision.com.au/drake/surnames/surnames24.html)

Maria Harriet in post 4 married Edward Marshall White on the transcript.

I have previously researched a John Drake married to a Sarah but do not know if it is Sarah Chadder nor if the son, John is the John I am trying to find more about. However that John has a son William Hobbs Drake who is also mentioned in the transcript.

William Henry Drake is also mentioned in the transcript, he too is in post 4.

[Kit]

Just re-read something from a contact. She has a letter to John from his mother, Sarah. So it is looking more likely to be that the parents are John and Sarah Chadder.

[Phoenix]

Just re-read something from a contact. She has a letter to John from his mother, Sarah. So it is looking more likely to be that the parents are John and Sarah Chadder.

If she has a letter, does it have any addresses on it? Or dates?

[Kit]

Kate is going to look at something for me so forgive me if I repeat things.

John Drake and Sarah Chadder married on 12/10/1768 at Totnes, Devon.

I have found on familysearch that a John and Sarah Drake had the following children:
Sarah baptised 1772
Mary Honoria bapt 1774
Elizabeth Filmore bapt 1776
William Hobbs bapt 1779
John b 1782 bapt 1784

All were baptised at Withycombe Raleigh Devon. It looks like John and Sarah's children.

If I have the right John Snr I have his will. John Jr was born after it was written and so is not mentioned. Sarah and William are specifically mentioned as well as any other children I may have in the future so I think Elizabeth and Mary died by 1781.

This link details the marriage and children of Matthew White and Sarah Drake and I have not been able to find fault with it. Matthew and Sarah White (http://www.xroyvision.com.au/drake/surnames/surnames24.html)

I found cemetery transcriptions for Sarah, Matthew and a few of their children. Sarah's YOB is about 1772. St Georges Beckenham (http://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/Research/Libr/MIs/MIsBeckenhamStGeo/01.htm)

[kiterunner]

So what we are trying to do is prove that the Sarah who married Matthew White is Sarah Drake jr, daughter of your John and Sarah, is that right, Kit?

[kiterunner]

Kit, there are some Drakes mentioned on that website as godparents of Matthew and Sarah's children. Are they relatives of your Drakes?

[kiterunner]

FMP has a transcript of Matthew White's marriage at Withycombe Raleigh, Devon, in 1792, and also for Sarah Drake, so if you haven't already seen it, you could look at that and see what info there is. I don't know whether it will give you the witnesses' names though, as it is just a transcript not an image. Maybe it will tell you if it was by licence (most likely) or banns too.

[Kit]

Ultimately I would like to prove that the couple John and Sarah were the parents to both Sarah who married Matthew and to John who married Maria Story.

In the transcript the people who belong to me appear later in the page - Maria Drake (wife of my John Drake, OH 4g grandfather), William Henry Drake Esq, (son of my John Drake and OH 3g grandfather), Caroline Browne (daughter of my John Drake), Charlotte Augusta Drake ( another daughter of my John Drake).

[Kit]

FMP does not say if the marriage was by licence or banns and no mention of witnesses.

[Kit]

I wasn't clear above. I do not know John and Sarah nee Chadder belong to me although I have been told this is the case. It is what I want to prove. I do know now, having re-read something sent to me, that my John's mother is called Sarah.

[kiterunner]

Looking at the John Drake / Maria Story marriage, Kit, the first witness is Geo Story, but who do you think the second witness is?

[kiterunner]

Going back to the website with the family Bible stuff on it, it says that William Hobbs Drake was the godfather to the eldest son of Matthew White and Sarah Drake, so I would say that is proof enough that the Sarah who married Matthew White was the daughter of John and Sarah, since William Hobbs Drake would then be her brother.

[kiterunner]

TNA has William Hobbs Drake's will; hopefully it will mention his brother(s) and sister(s):

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D338678


Description:


Will of William Hobbs Drake, Purser of the Ship Hugh Inglis in the Service of the Honorable East India Company now outward bound on a Voyage to the East Indies


Date:

12 June 1804

[Kit]

I have the will of William Hobbs Drake. I can't remember what it says as I got it a while ago but it didn't help with anything. I have to take the kids soon but will re-read it when I get home.

oh Kate you are good. I think the other witness to John and Maria's wedding is Matt White. Do you agree? That would be the Matthew of the Matthew and Sarah we are looking at, most probably. William Hobbs having died by then.

[kiterunner]

Yes, I thought it said Matt White.

[Kit]

William Hobbs Drake leaves everything to his brother John, purser of the East India ship Marguis Wellerby (?). He requests John gives an amount to his sister Sarah Drake and an annual amount of 5 pounds to his mother. If John dies then it all goes to his mother Sarah Drake and if she dies it goes to his sister Sarah Drake for the use and benefit of her children to be equally divided amongst them. Dated 16/2/1803.

I need to find out if John was a purser before he became a commissary but would a man refer to his sister as Sarah Drake if she was a married woman?

[Kit]

I think the ship was Marquis of Wellesley.

[kiterunner]

Have a look at this, Kit (warning, it's one of those "full text" books so may take a while to download):

http://archive.org/stream/oldeastindiamen00chatrich/oldeastindiamen00chatrich_djvu.txt

When it has loaded, press CTRL + F to search in the document for marquis well, and you should get to a section about a sailor named Thomas Addison born 1785 who served on the Marquis Wellesley. It says that his journals were published by the Navy Records Society, edited by Sir John Laughton. (I wonder if we can find them to download or for sale?) It goes on to mention that Mr Matthew White was the managing owner of the ship Marquis of Wellesley! There doesn't seem to be any mention of John Drake in this book but I wonder whether he features in the journals.

[kiterunner]

I found this on Google Books:

Marquis Wellesley
818 Tons, 2 Voyage
Coast and Bay
(Matthew White, Esq)
Capt Bruce Mitchell
1 Charles Le Blanc
2 Henry Scoones
3 John L Lutwyche
4 James Crabb
Sur. Robert Macara
Pur. John Drake
Sailed Ports 5 March 1802
Moorings 3 August, 1803

Of course none of this tells us for sure whether the John Drake who was the purser on this ship is your John Drake but hopefully something will turn up soon to confirm it.

[Kit]

Oh Kate what a find. It looks good. William Hobbs Drake's will was written Feb 1803 and his brother was purser at that time. So that John Drake you mention must be his brother, don't you think?

[kiterunner]

Yes, that must be William Hobbs Drake's brother.

[Kit]

William Hobbs Drake was also a purser on 2 ships owned by Matthew White Esq.

[Kit]

I think that everything ties in now. The purser thing was the one niggling doubt I had. I will look for the journals tomorrow when I get a chance.

Thank you very much Kate, I really appreciate your help.