View Full Version : Laura Madden
Laura Madden married Rev Henry Kingsley/Karow Archdall 6 December 1911 St Luke Harrowgate. Her father is named as Edward Madden, Clerk in Holy Orders.
Newspaper reports of the marriage on Trove say she was daughter of Edward deceased, and Mrs Madden of Stratford Upon Avon. They say that Laura is niece of the Archdeacon of Liverpool, (who was Thomas John Madden born Belfast Ireland 1853, son of Richard Madden), of Sir John Madden Chief Justice of Victoria Australia. (born 1844 Cork, son of John Madden and Margaret McOboy, - and they were a Catholic family) and of the Earl and Countess of Warwick (who at the time were Francis Richard Charles Guy Greville and Frances Evelyn Maynard).
1911 Census the engaged couple are together and visitors, and Laura says she was b c1883 Stratford Upon Avon.
Which all looks fine, except I cannot find a birth for Laura,
Crockfords have no Edward Madden listed in 1874, 1885 or 1908,
he is not in Stratford Upon Avon in 1881,
I cannot find any Edward Madden 1881-1911 census who is listed as a clergyman
There are no newspaper hits for Rev Edward Madden.
There is no sign of Laura on any other census including the 1901 census of Ireland.
I thought I had a clue when I found that Sir John Madden was educated in France and spoke fluent French and German. There was an Edward Byrne Madden (b1821 Ireland) who threatened to kill the Queen and was locked up in Broadmoor 1881, who was a tutor or translator, went to school in France and spoke fluent French and German. But the age is wrong for him to be a brother of Sir John, who was the "eldest surviving of 7 sons".
Some of these supposed uncles must be incorrect!
So who was Laura and where did she go between birth and 1911? Anyone want to have a go at making sense of all this? I am going around in circles now!
Not having any luck with Laura so far.
However, Thomas John Madden (married Jane Horrocks), the Archdeacon of Liverpool, was a member of the Madden family of Hilton Park in Clones, Co Monaghan. Thomas and Jane's son, Thomas Hylton Madden, was killed in the First World War.
The Maddens were a wealthy Irish family and the Public Records Office of Northern Ireland holds thousands of papers relating to them.
http://www.proni.gov.uk/introduction_madden_papers.pdf
kiterunner
30-10-13, 09:27
Laura Madden married Rev Henry Kingsley/Karow Archdall 6 December 1911 St Luke Harrowgate. Her father is named as Edward Madden, Clerk in Holy Orders.
The marriage was at Harrogate, not Harrowgate. I Googled for Harrowgate and found it was in Darlington, Co Durham, and since Laura was in Co Durham on the 1911 census that looked right, so I have wasted some time looking at Durham BMD etc! So just thought I would mention it to save anyone else from doing the same. Found the marriage on ancestry now I know where it was:
Harrogate marriage (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2253/32355_249635-00535/5167003?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dWYorkCoEMarriage%26db%3d%26so %3d2%26rank%3d0%26gsfn%3dl*ra%26gsln%3dmad*n%26sx% 3d%26gs1co%3d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1%252 c%2b%26year%3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d0%26sbor%3d%26 ufr%3d0%26wp%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26src hb%3dr%26prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3d angs-c&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
Laura is 29, spinster, residence 7 Grove Road, Harrogate, witnesses are B Burgoyne Chapman and Martha Archdall.
kiterunner
30-10-13, 09:32
Also her death Jan-Mar 1953 Cardigan C, Laura Archdall age 70.
National Probate Calendar 1953: ARCHDALL Laura of St David's College Lampeter Cardiganshire (wife of the reverend Henry Kingsley Archdall clerk) died 16 March 1853 Administration Oxford 16 May to the said reverend Henry Kingsley Archdall clerk. Effects £418 9s 10d.
Sorry Kate for my spelling error.
I suspect that the Archdeacon and Sir John Madden were related, but not brothers, so unless Laura's mother and father were both related to the Maddens one of the "uncles" must be a more distant relative, and how any of them are related to the Earl of Warwick, I don't know.
I would dearly love to identify her father, the supposed Rev Edward Madden. There are very few clergy who would not get a single newspaper hit.
Thanks Shona for the Madden papers link, I will have a good look through this evening and see if there are any clues there.
kiterunner
30-10-13, 18:56
I wonder whether she just created a whole false identity for herself.
I wonder whether she just created a whole false identity for herself.
That is my impression Kate! There is too much that does not add up and no real evidence to the relationship claims, which is why the threatened assassin of the Queen looked like a possibility - maybe her father was the family nutter! But the generations don't fit and I am sure the newspapers would have mentioned the fact he was a clergyman, or he was son/brother of someone important.
I am pleased that I have not missed something obvious that one of you have found! :o
Edward Byrne Madden used a lot of religious references in his letters.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=NZH18790215.2.53
But in 1881, when was was in Hanwell Asylum, he was unmarried.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/BRKRG11_1317_1321-0807/406017?backurl=http%253a%252f%252fsearch.ancestry. co.uk%252fcgi-bin%252fsse.dll%253fdb%253duki1881%2526so%253d2%25 26pcat%253dROOT_CATEGORY%2526rank%253d1%2526new%25 3d1%2526MSAV%253d1%2526msT%253d1%2526gss%253dangs-g%2526gsfn%253dEdward%2526gsfn_x%253dNN%2526gsln%2 53dMadden%2526gsln_x%253dNN%2526gskw%253dByrne%252 6gskw_x%253d1%2526cpxt%253d1%2526catBucket%253drst p%2526uidh%253dfpy%2526cp%253d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
Thanks Shona, his letters are very odd! I read through the newspaper report, and wondered about the Rev Dodwell that he kept going about, and I hoped he might be a clue, until I clicked on the Ancestry link and discovered that Rev Dodwell was in the funny farm with him! :d
You know not to believe everything you read in the newspaper !
I have a marriage report for OH's COLE family that says Major Kenneth Cole's best man was his cousin, Air -Vice Marshal A.T. ("King") Cole.
They must be pretty far-distant cousins because I can take the family back 5 generations and cannot find their common ancestor !
it was a pretty big deal as the bride, Caroline Chamberlent, was flying in to Sydney for the wedding, from Paris and the DELAY of the wedding due to plane engine trouble was reported in many newspapers.
But back to Laura Madden !
There is a Charlotte Madden, daughter of Edward and Sarah Ann Madden born 1883 in Birmingham - what if she just changed her first name ?
In 1881 Edward was a Striker Smith in Harborne Staffordshire, but she could have romanticised his occupation. He was born 1847 in County Mayo, according to that census.
My ancestry sub is expired so I cannot follow him further in the census, but you might like to consider him.
Di
kiterunner
31-10-13, 09:28
There is a Charlotte Madden, daughter of Edward and Sarah Ann Madden born 1883 in Birmingham - what if she just changed her first name ?
She would have changed her birthplace too? Anyway, there is a Charlotte Elizabeth Madden marrying a Thomas Robinson 10 Oct 1904 at Bishop Ryder, Birmingham, age 21, spinster, father Edward Madden, striker. Then on the 1911 census there is a couple Thomas and Charlotte Robinson living in Birmingham, both age 27, married 7 years, which is likely to be them.
I've been going round and round (and round) in circles with this!!
I've eliminated lots of people, but can't get rid of this record:
Births Sep 1882
Simmons Laura Ann Stratford 6d 596
Can anyone else see what happened to her?
kiterunner
31-10-13, 11:43
I haven't found any trace of her yet, Merry. But it doesn't help that the Stratford district included parts of Worcestershire and Gloucestershire as well as Warwickshire. If only we knew who her parents were!
Ah, I don't think I'd considered the boundary including Gloucestershire :o
I've just realised that Ancestry's supposed replication of the old search doesn't work exactly the same way as the old search. Having said that, I still can't find that Laura!!
Mary from Italy
31-10-13, 13:00
Very annoying that the Warks parish records on Ancestry don't include Stratford.
I have hunted so hard for Laura and her father, and I too wish that the Stratford baptisms were available....
The vanishing Laura Simmons looks interesting.
My underlying thought is that if her father/stepfather really was Rev Edward Madden, then the family may have headed off for the mission fields in some far flung corner of the realm, but why is there nothing about him in any newspaper? In my experience most clergy have an ordination, a marriage (theirs or someone elses) or a posting somewhere reported in the 19 Century papers.
Mary from Italy
31-10-13, 17:29
A Rev E Madden went to Adelaide in 1881, in case that helps at all.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5975372
Mary from Italy
31-10-13, 17:34
The Sorata arrived in Sydney a week later, and the Rev Madden wasn't on board:
http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/1881/11/010sor.htm
Thanks Mary, If he is C of E, he has been missed in the Australian directory of clergy. I will follow up on that one.
Mary from Italy
31-10-13, 17:48
He may have been RC; there were a Rev McGee and a Rev Murphy travelling on the ship, who sound likely to be Irish catholics.
And there are references in Trove to a Father Madden, with no initial.
Not sure if RC priests call themselves "Rev", though.
I had a quick look and thought he looked RC as well.
The Australian newspapers reported Laura's marriage as the Archdalls, her husband and family, were an Aussie clergy family. I would have expected that if her late father had worked in Australia at any time, that would have been reported along with the other family connections, so I had really discounted him serving anywhere there.
Mary from Italy
31-10-13, 18:21
In 1890 Rev E Madden was at the Kerang Mission in Vic, which I think was an RC mission.
The following travelled from Oz to London on the White Star Line ship, "Runic", arriving 14th March 1911:
Canon Archdall 64
Martha Archdall 65
Rose Archdall 21
Miss L Madden 27
Mr H K Archdall arrived in the UK in Sept 1909
As well as the four children mentioned in numerous places for Henry and Laura Archdall, (two sons killed in WW2, one other son born in England, one daughter), there were also these twins who died:
Births Dec 1912
ARCHDALL Edward Madden Helston 5c 268
ARCHDALL Rowley Madden Helston 5c 268
Deaths Dec 1912
Archdall Edward 0 Helston 5c 210
Archdall Rowley 0 Helston 5c 210
Note one would appear to be named for Laura's father.
Olde Crone
31-10-13, 19:35
Ha! the Cornish connection. th surname will be spelled (or pronounced) MADDERN in Cornwall and I did spot an Elora Maddern but think she was the wrong age.
EDIT - not all that wrong though, born 1881. And there's this
William Semmens (Simmons?) Maddern 1862 Penzance.
I know, I know - very unlikely!
OC
Mary from Italy
31-10-13, 19:49
I've found a Rev E Madden in Ross, Herefordshire, but he was also RC.
That passenger list looks good, Merry.
I would like to force this marriage into the equation!!
Marriages Sep 1888
FIRTH Maria Manchester 8d 411
Jones William Manchester 8d 411
MADDEN Edward Manchester 8d 411
Rowley Kezia Manchester 8d 411
I don't even know that the Madden and Rowley couple married each other!
And if I could force that couple together, I would like to add in this birth:
Births Mar 1883
Rowley Laura Birmingham 6d 124
OK, so it's the wrong place lol
Time to go and fetch dau from trick or treating now..............
kiterunner
31-10-13, 21:40
I would like to force this marriage into the equation!!
Marriages Sep 1888
FIRTH Maria Manchester 8d 411
Jones William Manchester 8d 411
MADDEN Edward Manchester 8d 411
Rowley Kezia Manchester 8d 411
I don't even know that the Madden and Rowley couple married each other!
Edward Madden married Maria Firth - it is on Lancs BMD.
*refrains from calling Kate a party pooper!*
I thought I looked on Lancs BMD!!
Olde Crone
31-10-13, 22:11
There's a death for a William Rowley Archdall in 1863, so the Rowley name was in the family before that, presumably.
OC
The children who were given names belonging to Laura's apparent relations (Maynard and Warwick) were not born until the family got to Australia.
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