View Full Version : Lancs OPC question.
I am wondering how I work out which person is the right one here...
I know for a fact Agatha Sawrey is ours. Baptised 18th March 1746 Hawkshead, daughter of Anthony.
Now...Anthony could possibly be the son of William Sawrey, a weaver from Hill. This Anthony was baptised 1722.
OR
Anthony Sawrey baptized 1720. His father was Henry Sawrey, a shoemaker from Dixon Ground.
OR
Anthony Sawrey baptized 1697, son of Myles from Coniston Water.
I also have the will of Agatha's husband, David Kirkby, where he owns Coniston Water, Dixon Ground and Hill Head.
Any ideas if there is anywhere else I can look to sort them?
Mary from Italy
15-10-13, 12:30
Do you have your Anthony's marriage, and does it specify his abode?
I know you have loads of Myles's later on, so could this Myles Sawrey be the reason for that, or do you have the name on another line going back?
Mary from Italy
15-10-13, 12:38
I don't think Myles was a particularly uncommon name in Lancs at the time, though.
Cannot find any marriage for Anthony.
Myles is a family name, but then every Lancs family of that era had at least one Myles.
Mary from Italy
15-10-13, 12:39
It might be worth asking the Lancs Record Office if there are any settlement or removal orders for the family.
Mary from Italy
15-10-13, 12:51
Agatha's family's abode is given as Waterhead in 1746, which appears to be between Coniston village and Coniston Water (the lake) - at least there's a Waterhead hotel there now, so it may not be the same place.
Mary from Italy
15-10-13, 12:54
Dixon Ground's the opposite side of Coniston village from Waterhead:
https://maps.google.co.uk/
Does Agatha's husband own Coniston Water in its entirety? That's a sizeable drop of water. I would imagine her father would be equally wealthy.
Agatha married David Kirkby. He was seriously wealthy. Not sure about the Sawrey lot. There are lots of wills around but I am not sure which ones to buy.
Mary from Italy
15-10-13, 13:04
If they were weavers and shoemakers they don't sound at all wealthy, but maybe Agatha belonged to a richer branch of the family.
kiterunner
15-10-13, 13:21
These are other baptisms at Hawkshead with father Anthony Sawrey:
22 Feb 1732/3 Myles
10 Mar 1747/9 William, abode Conistone, occupation weaver
19 Sep 1750 Eliz, abode Townsonground Cunistone
26 Sep 1753 Joseph, abode Cunistone
25 Mar 1756 Eleanor, abode Cunistone
21 Mar 1759 Mary, abode Grizedale Satterthwaite
18 Aug 1761 John, abode Colthouse
It's not really clear how many Anthonys are involved here as there are no baptisms too close to each other.
There is a burial 11 Nov 1786, also at Hawkshead, Anthony Sawrey age 89, died 9 Nov 1786, abode Waterhead Conistone, occupation yeoman. Sounds like a more likely occupation for Agatha's father and the abode is Waterhead.
So I would say the next step is to see whether the Anthony who died in 1786 left a will.
kiterunner
15-10-13, 13:27
From TNA catalogue:
Short title: Hayton v Wilson.
Document type: Bill and answer.
Plaintiffs: Thomas Hayton, John Hayton, Eleanor Hayton, Bryan Robinson and Frances Robinson his wife (late Frances Hayton) and Mary Hayton (children of George Hayton and Ann Hayton his wife, daughter of George Dixon deceased), Miles Sawrey and Agnes Sawrey (children of Anthony Sawrey, brother in law of said George Dixon), infants (by said Anthony Sawrey), George Walker, John Walker and Elizabeth Walker (children of said George Walker who is brother in law of said George Dixon) infant (by George Walker, her father), John Wilson, Miles Wilson, Elizabeth Wilson and Mary Wilson (children of the said Jonathan Wilson, brother in law of said George Dixon), infants (by Jonathan Wilson; all legatees of said George Dixon, deceased).
Defendants: George Wilson infant (by George Wilson, his grandfather), Ann Dixon and Dorothy Dixon.
Date of bill (or first document): 1753
Be handy if this is the right Anthony Sawrey as it would give you a whole family tree! Any chance that Agatha could be a variant of Agnes, do you think? There was no Agnes or Miles baptism on Lancs OPC who would be an infant in 1753. Edit - though having reread it, I don't think the "infants" refers to Miles and Agnes, but to some younger children? So Miles could be an adult and Agatha could be one of the infants.
kiterunner
15-10-13, 13:40
FamilySearch has the marriage of an Anthony Sawrey 20 Apr 1747 at Wigton, Cumberland, to Elizabeth Dowthwaite. Doesn't quite fit with Agatha's baptism date, though. Also an Anthony Sawrey marriage 3 Mar 1730 at Matterdale, Cumberland, to Elizabeth Wilkinson.
kiterunner
15-10-13, 13:48
Trying to unpick the names in that TNA catalogue entry, George Hayton married Ann Dixon 18 Jun 1720 at Kendal, Westmorland.
There are two George Dixon / Sawrey marriages on FamilySearch (and Lancs OPC), both at Hawkshead: 24 Nov 1696 to Sarah Sawrey, and 2 Feb 1700 to Dorothy Sawrey. So one (or both) of these could be sister to the Anthony who was George Dixon's brother-in-law. Of course we don't know whether this is the right Anthony yet! At least they are in the right area.
kiterunner
15-10-13, 13:50
There is a Sarah Sawrey, daughter of William, baptised 28 Nov 1674, abode Satterthwaite, and a couple of possible Dorothys: 27 Nov 1679 daughter of Wm, abode Sawrey-infra, and 26 Aug 1683, daughter of Edward, abode Sawrey infra. This is all getting a bit tenuous though!
kiterunner
15-10-13, 14:21
I can't find any listing of a will for the Anthony who died in 1786; I don't suppose he is in that list of wills that you mentioned, Libby?
I Googled something like THE RECORD SOCIETY RELATING TO LANCASHIRE AND CHESHIRE "Myles Sawrey" OR "Sawrey, Miles" and came up with a lot of tantalizing stuff.
This is from "A List of the Lancashire Wills Proved Within the Archdeaconry of Richmond" 1681-1748:
http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u533/pix4janet/Sawrey_zpsa72c7c3e.jpg
kiterunner
15-10-13, 17:28
The Sawreys on that list are all before 1746, so their wills won't mention Agatha. I bet a lot of them will turn out to be related, though.
I bet a lot of them will turn out to be related, though.
Agreed.
Libby, maybe you should just plunge in with a couple of (or more) wills and try to piece together some of the earlier Sawreys - it might be easier to come forward rather then keeping on trying to go backwards!
kiterunner
15-10-13, 18:47
I'm looking at a public member tree on ancestry which has Anthony Sawrey 1697-1786 on it but doesn't show him marrying or having children. Wondering whether we can find anything in there which we could use to prove whether he is the right Anthony. He is shown as the son of Myles Sawrey 1660-1727 and Margaret Taylor who died 1752, and one of his siblings is shown as Agnes Sawrey 1692-1764, who married a Myles Fleming. The tree shows the Flemings as having three children who died young, with Myles Fleming dying in 1738. So, if this is all correct, Agnes might name siblings, nephews and nieces in her will. Edit - thought I had found a likely will for her but it was wrong! Back to the drawing board...
Wonder whether Margaret left a will; if so then that might name Agatha.
Uncle John
15-10-13, 18:47
It might be worth asking the Lancs Record Office if there are any settlement or removal orders for the family.
Since we are talking about Lancashire North of the Sands, it's more likely to be Cumbria records office, presumably the Carlisle office.
Gee, I put something up here, go to bed and wake to find you've all been working well for me...lol
UJ...it's all the Lakes District area..
The Flemmings/Holmes/Rigge/Sawrey/Kirkby/Sandys/Dixon lot all show up in wills as witnesses and executors.
Just thought of something....but it could take me a little while to search it out.
In one of Agatha and David Kirkby's childrens baptisms, they give Agatha's name as Agnes. In the BT's the bishop has mentioned her name was Agatha and it was her mother in law who was Agnes.
That was Agnes Addison (daughter of Hugh) who married William Kirkby in 1727.
Wordsworth kindly gave me David and Agatha's tree in his autobiography as he wrote his first ballad about Mary Rigge, the lady who had David Kirkby's illegitimate son and then died of a broken heart before he married Agatha.
Uncle John
15-10-13, 21:37
UJ...it's all the Lakes District area.
One branch of my family came from that area - several of the villages between Windermere and Morecambe Bay and as far east as Kendal. It's all Cumbria now, but the southern part was in Lancashire until relatively recently.
Just got a reply to my email to the records office about Lancs wills.
They are 5 pounds each and I can order up to 5 at a time.
Which 5 do I order????
I will take a look tomorrow and see if I can work out which ones.
I have David Kirkby's, Agatha Kirkby's and Hugh Addison's.
kiterunner
16-10-13, 13:22
If you think that the Anthony Sawrey mentioned in the TNA catalogue entry in post #13 is likely to be your Anthony, then George Dixon's will might be worth getting. The date on the catalogue entry is 1753 but the nearest possible burial and will I can see are George Dixon, householder, buried 13 Jul 1741 St Andrew, Coniston, with a will of a George Dixon of Bowmanstead, Furness, 1741. But of course this might be the wrong George Dixon, or two different wrong George Dixons! If only you could get to look at the TNA stuff, but it says it has not been digitised and you would have to request a quote for a copy, and I think they're pretty expensive now. And if he is the George Dixon who died in 1741, his will wouldn't mention Agatha, but of course it could be he died nearer to 1753 and I just didn't find the right burial and will.
kiterunner
16-10-13, 13:35
I'm wondering if there are some relevant wills that don't come up in the Lancashire Will Search - for instance, if they come under Carlisle. But I can only see an online index for pre-1750 Carlisle wills (on British Origins) whereas we would really be looking for post-1750 ones. :(
kiterunner
16-10-13, 13:38
Ah, just found the Cumbria Archive Service Catalogue. Will have a look through that:
http://www.archiveweb.cumbria.gov.uk/CalmView/advanced.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog
kiterunner
16-10-13, 13:51
Cumbria Archives has the "Will and inventory of George Dixon, yeoman, of Albyfield, Cumrew, Cumberland", 1751.
http://www.archiveweb.cumbria.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=PROB%2f1751%2fWI415&pos=10
I don't think this is in the right area, though.
Uncle John
16-10-13, 15:29
I think Cumberland is too far north. Westmorland and Lancashire are more likely.
kiterunner
16-10-13, 15:47
Have you looked on British Origins for possible wills, Libby?
Morning Kate...just stumbled out of bed....
I looked on Origins a few months back...Not since.
I will have a cuppa and try to get my head around the names shortly. 5am here and I'm still yawning....lol
Just thought I'd check the PCC wills in case one of them defected south...
Will of Myles Sawrey 1791 looked like it could do with a quick look. Thirty-five pages!
Thirty-five pages!
lololol!!!! Maybe you could just scan through it for names to begin with?
kiterunner
17-10-13, 07:08
Just thought I'd check the PCC wills in case one of them defected south...
Will of Myles Sawrey 1791 looked like it could do with a quick look. Thirty-five pages!
I can't see that one on TNA? Where did he live?
Merry....I love you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He's Agatha Sawrey's brother. Page 3 says my sister, Agatha Kirkby....
Kite...Plymouth, Devon he lives. See, you can't just look in one village for this lot. They are off all over the place.
Now, give me strength...just downloading 35 pages will probably finish me off, let alone reading it.
It's only 14 pages. No idea why they have 35 as I got to page 15 and found somebody else in the side column.
kiterunner
17-10-13, 12:09
Ah, it says 1796 on TNA site, and 18 pages.
It was proved 1796 and written 1791 and has 14 pages.......I hope. lol
I am absolute rubbish at these PCC wills. I can get one word out of every hundred. I will have to print it out tomorrow and wade through it very slowly. I can see he mentions Dorothy and Jane. I think that will be Jane Derry who lived in Plymouth....was married to Richard Derry.
kiterunner
17-10-13, 12:18
FamilySearch has the marriage of Myles Sawrey to Elizabeth Stevens, 1772, Devon, for which you can view the image if you are at a FamilySearch Centre or a member of a "supporting organization" (probably means a member of the LDS Church). Also the marriage of Myles Sawrey to Elizabeth Tozer 10 or 18 Feb 1777 at Modbury, Devon. And the baptism of Elizabeth Sawry, daughter of Miles and Elizabeth, 29 Mar 1778 at Princes Street Independent, Devonport, Devon. The image for that is on BMD Registers / The Genealogist.
But what I was really looking for was Myles Sawrey's burial in 1791 or 1796 or somewhere in between, to see whether it gave his age!
Ah well, hopefully the will should provide lots of clues anyway.
I'm just going through those on The Genealogist to see what comes up.
Image on FMP. He's a mercer, she a widow, married by licence 3 August 1772, both sign, witnesses JNO Brown & John Mark m at St Andrews Plymouth.
Details of licence probably indexed.
kiterunner
17-10-13, 12:43
The Myles of the will is also a mercer.
kiterunner
17-10-13, 12:48
Ah, his burial is on ancestry!
burial (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2972/40612_B0148511-00031/841229?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dUKNonConformistVitals%26db%3d %26so%3d2%26rank%3d0%26gsfn%3dm%253fles%26gsln%3ds awr*y%26sx%3d%26gs1co%3d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs 1pl%3d1%252c%2b%26year%3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d0%2 6sbor%3d%26ufr%3d0%26wp%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_800 00003%26srchb%3dr%26prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3 d0%26gss%3dangs-c&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
Myles Sawrey, of the Parish of St Andrews in the County of Devon, aged Sixty-four years was buried in the Protestant Dissenters Burying-Ground, in Plymouth, on the Fourth Day of July 1796
Registered the Twentythird day of July 1796
So, he was born about 1732 which I think fits with a baptism earlier in this thread... yes, see post #12. We still don't know whether he is Agatha's full brother or half-brother, though.
Libby, email it to me if you don't need the whole thing typing out. i'm quite happy to gve you a list of the important parts. Great news that Agatha Sawrey/Kirkby isn't a figment of your imagination!! :rolleyes:
Mary from Italy
17-10-13, 14:44
Oh! I found this Myles while I was searching yesterday.
There's a marriage for him in London to Elizabeth Chambers in 1787; he was a widower, abode St Andrew's, Plymouth:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31280_195158-00308/2505074?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dLMAmarriages%26db%3d%26so%3d2 %26rank%3d0%26gsfn%3dm*les%26gsln%3dsawrey%26sx%3d %26gs1co%3d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1%252c% 2b%26year%3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d1%26sbor%3d%26uf r%3d0%26wp%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26srchb %3dr%26prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dan gs-c&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
Marriage bond:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2056/32515_1831109387_0039-00234/171933?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dSurreyMarriage%26db%3d%26so%3 d2%26rank%3d0%26gsfn%3dm*les%26gsln%3dsawrey%26sx% 3d%26gs1co%3d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1%252 c%2b%26year%3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d1%26sbor%3d%26 ufr%3d0%26wp%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26src hb%3dr%26prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3d angs-c&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
I also came across this document, which contains some old Hawkshead wills, so it may come in useful at some point. There a various Sawreys, Rigges, etc., mentioned.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CDUQFjAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftspace.library.utoronto.ca%2Fbit stream%2F1807%2F19203%2F6%2FMatusiak_Christopher_M _200911_PhD_thesis.pdf.pdf&ei=8fZfUtzZJ-Lj4QTf5YDoBw&usg=AFQjCNEFzyXl1G-HWEHx7XLGiKZQENt9Kw
I feel a trip to TNA coming on...
That TNA doc would almost certainly describe Anthony's relationship to George Dixon in greater detail.
If it were via Anthony's wife then Miles and Agatha (it was Agatha, not Agnes, wasn't it?) would have the same mother.
I do wonder, given Miles's wanderings, whether Anthony also wandered and that is why there are gaps. btw Miles would have been a minor still in 1753 as only twenty.
You do get families with lots of still births and only the eldest child and a youngest (born when the poor woman feels herself too old for children)
kiterunner
17-10-13, 18:22
I feel a trip to TNA coming on...
That TNA doc would almost certainly describe Anthony's relationship to George Dixon in greater detail.
If it were via Anthony's wife then Miles and Agatha (it was Agatha, not Agnes, wasn't it?) would have the same mother.
I think George Dixon was probably married to Anthony's sister, because I found a couple of possible marriages - see post #15.
Just up and you've all been working nicely again I see.
Merry.....I may just take you up on that. I think you've read more of my wills than I have....lol I'm fine with the really old ones....
Yes....AGATHA Sawrey married David Kirkby. AGNES was AGNES Addison (Daivd Kirkby's mother)
I Googled something like THE RECORD SOCIETY RELATING TO LANCASHIRE AND CHESHIRE "Myles Sawrey" OR "Sawrey, Miles" and came up with a lot of tantalizing stuff.
This is from "A List of the Lancashire Wills Proved Within the Archdeaconry of Richmond" 1681-1748:
http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u533/pix4janet/Sawrey_zpsa72c7c3e.jpg
I assume you found this on Ancestry?
If so, does it have anything for George Dixon early 1750s?
They only go to 1748....BLOW!!!
Lancs Wills has one for 1771. He's from Coniston.
I've noticed that TNA have a couple of documents of deponents regarding that Chancery case. They ought to give ages and standing of the various witnesses. The bills and answers are likely to be documents a yard wide and two foot deep, covered in tiny writing.
Mary from Italy
17-10-13, 20:10
I assume you found this on Ancestry?
No, it's on archive.org:
http://archive.org/details/listoflancashire13rich
Mary from Italy
17-10-13, 20:12
Here's the book for 1748-1812:
http://archive.org/details/listoflancashire66rich
Edit: sorry, it's 1793-1812.
Mary...that last link you put up has one will which names a few people but it doesn't really shed any light. It's a will for one of the Sandys......good reading though. His wife took off and he tells all....lol It's from 1591.
Phoenix.....there is a huge case in Google Books about one of the Dorothys (have to remember). This lot and all their friends and family for many generations in each direction love courtrooms.
Lancs Wills has one for 1771. He's from Coniston.
The Chancery Case is in 1753. So he must have died, I assume some time between 1733 and then.
Mary from Italy
17-10-13, 20:20
That first volume has an entry for the will of "Dixon, George, of Dixon Ground in Conniston, F 1729" - don't know whether it's any use.
http://archive.org/stream/listoflancashire13rich#page/86/mode/2up
Mary from Italy
17-10-13, 20:20
Mary...that last link you put up has one will which names a few people but it doesn't really shed any light. It's a will for one of the Sandys......good reading though. His wife took off and he tells all....lol It's from 1591.
Oh yes, I read a bit of that one, about the guy whose wife eloped with one or more boyfriends :)
Mary from Italy
17-10-13, 20:31
The 1748 to 1792 volume of Lancs wills doesn't seem to be on archive.org. It's on Google books, which is a bit more difficult to search:
http://books.google.it/books/about/A_List_of_the_Lancashire_Wills_Proved_Wi.html?id=H dBCAAAAYAAJ&redir_esc=y
I can't open that book Mary.
Aha! Thanks, Mary. I was getting tied in knots trying to find that volume. I've taken care of Libby.
EDIT: I'll stick this in here for reference. Not yet found a similar list for post-1748. Years on left are publication, years of coverage are in text at right, Roman numerals are volume numbers.
http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u533/pix4janet/LancsandCheshVolsI-XIV_zps708f2a7c.jpg
You are a gem Janet. Thank you. Wonder why some can open and others can't? Must be a country copyright thing.
You're welcome. Self-interest involved. It helps that I'm deeply interested in Lancs myself. :)
You're welcome. Self-interest involved. It helps that I'm deeply interested in Lancs myself. :)
My deepest sympathy.
My deepest sympathy.
:d:d:d
===============================
Well now, here's something interesting I've just stumbled upon. Don't ask me what Roy Rogers the singing cowboy is doing in there :confused: but the rest is quite intriguing. Can you get in there?
WorldCat: 'Wills & Probates 2' by chazzero (http://www.worldcat.org/profiles/chazzero/lists/2267640)
There's a copy at our local uni.
I'm off to see if I can find an online version of William Rigge's will. It's in that list you sent me but under Riggs.
Myles Sawrey will, written 1794, proved 1796.
Page 1
Myles Sawrey of Plymouth, Devon, mercer, of sound mind etc.
Page 2
I commit my Soul into the hands of my Creator.
I commit my body to the earth to be interred in the Baptist Burying Ground in Plymouth.
As to such Worldly Estate with which it has pleased God to entrust me and to avoid all controversies about the same after my decease, I dispose of the same as followeth:
Stephen Langston of the City of London, warehouseman and Jarvis Chambers of the said City haberdasher (or their Executors and Administrators etc) are to be paid £2,000 within one month of Myles’ decease upon trust to pay to his wife Elizabeth Sawrey the interest and any dividends from the investment of these monies. There’s also a sum of £640 which is for Elizabeth Sawrey, but I’m not sure where that came from. It may be part of a dowry. Myles also bequeath £100 to his wife, Elizabeth Sawrey, in lieu of household furniture.
Page 3
Myles bequeathed to his sister, Agatha Kirkby the wife of David Kirkby of Thwaite in Coniston in the County of Lancashire all his copyhold estate and tenements situated at Coniston Water for and during the term of her natural life. At her death the copyhold estates and tenements are bequeathed to his three nephews, William Kirkby, Myles Kirkby and David Kirkby to be divided equally between them as tenants in common.
Myles also bequeathed one thousand five hundred pounds apiece to the said nephews, William Kirkby, Myles Kirkby and David Kirkby to be paid within six months of his decease.
He bequeathed to Richard Lear Pinhey of Plymouth Dock in the County of Devon Gentleman, Robert Pearce of Plymouth aforesaid, distiller, John Saunders the younger of Plymouth aforesaid, Gentleman and to his nephew William Kirkby all of his dwelling house in Plymouth Old Town where he lived. The next bit is really faded on the right hand side, but I think this property was to be held to Richard Lear Pinhey, Robert Pearce, John Saunders and William Kirkby (the executors) for the purposes of allowing his dwelling house to be used by his niece, Jane Derry the wife of Richard Derry, during the term of her natural life. If it doesn’t say that, then she is getting the rent money from the property (her husband get’s it if she predeceases him).
Page 4
(Whatever it was that Jane and Richard Derry were getting, it passes to their surviving children after the death of both of them)
Myles bequeathed £500 to his niece, Jane Derry to be paid within six months of his decease.
He bequeathed all his household goods to his niece Jane Derry.
£1500 was given in trust to Richard Lear Pinhey, Robert Pearce, John Saunders and William Kirkby (their heirs and executors etc) – the interest etc to be paid to Myles’ niece Elizabeth Ariel the wife of William Ariel of the City of Bristol, merchant during the term of her natural life.
Page 5
(I lost the will to live trying to work out where the money/income went next, but to the children of Elizabeth and William Ariel and then maybe to the descendants of Myles Sawrey’s niece Agnes Kirkby)
Page 6
(more losing the will to live for me as Myles expresses what happens every time one of a group of beneficiaries dies or gets married. Myles leaves the income from another £1500 to his niece Mary Kirkby)
Page 7
This page is all about what happens to the next £1500 held in trust for niece Ann Kirkby, a minor at the time the will was written.
Page 8
Was there a niece called Dorothy Kirkby, also a minor? She gets the same treatment as Ann.
Page 9
No names on this page!
Page 10
Lots of legalese about what happens if any or all of his trustees dies. Then…..Myles bequeathed (various dividends) equally between William, Myles, David, Jane, Elizabeth, Agnes, Mary, Ann and Dorothy (and then there’s lots of explanation about what happens if any of them die).
He bequeathed to “my Christian Friends” Benjamin Shepheard the elder and William Ivor (?) Cooper of Plymouth aforesaid £20 each.
Page 11
More blurb about dividing the income after the death of each beneficiary
Page 12
(and more of that!)
Will signed 2nd April 1794.
Page 13
Witnessed by Benjamin Shepheard jr, George Prideaux Harris and Joseph Dingle.
Page 14
The codicil doesn’t really change anything – just expressing a few exact points about the marriages or potential marriages of the nieces.
Page 15
The codicil was also signed in April 1794,
Same witnesses as the main will.
Will proved 16th July 1796.
Oaths of Richard Lear Pinhey Robert Pearce, John Saunders the younger and William Kirkby.
I’m not promising I’ve got all the info exactly right about how the various monies in trust were dealt out, but I’ve tried extra hard to get all the names right! lol
kiterunner
18-10-13, 17:58
I assume that niece Jane was nee Kirkby?
This is a quote from an old thread of Libby's:
Agatha Sawrey married David Kirkby in Hawkshead 1762.
Their children include Elizabeth, 1766 who married William Ariel 1788 in Bristol.
Jane who married Richard Derry in Plymouth.
kiterunner
18-10-13, 18:34
I was hoping the will might mention some other relatives apart from the Kirkby branch, but it seems not. Well, at least it proves that Agatha was the sister or half-sister of the Myles who was born about 1732/3.
Thank you Merry.
I shall grab the tree after my cuppa and check out the names.
Just putting this here for reference. It still doesn't sort out which Anthony is the father....lol
Agatha Sawrey married David Kirkby 1762
Children
William 1763
Myles 1764
Elizabeth 1766 (married William Ariel)
Jane 1770 (married Richard Derry)
Agnes 1772
David 1774
Mally 1776 (married Thomas Fenton and is known as Mary)
Ann 1778
Dorothy 1784 (?????)
Dorothy seems to be a long time after Ann. In William Wordsworth book, he says there were 10 children, so not sure who I have missed.
Dorothy goes on to marry John Lawrence PIDWELL. There is a court case about her inheritance in Google Books. She dies 1814.
kiterunner
18-10-13, 22:52
Just putting this here for reference. It still doesn't sort out which Anthony is the father....lol
Well, it rules out the ones baptized in 1720 and 1722, unless they were baptized as older children / adults, because Agatha's brother Myles was born around 1733. So it's looking likely to be the Anthony who was baptised 1697, son of Myles. Maybe we can figure the George Dixon stuff out better to prove this.
I know this doesn't help with your OH's direct line, but I note that when Myles Sawrey (1733-1796) married in 1787 (he was a widower) at St John's Hackney his bride was Elizabeth Chambers, spinster. The witnesses were Chambers and a Langston - both of those surnames pop up in Myles' will.
Was Myles' first wife also named Elizabeth? There's a bap for an Elizabeth, dau of Miles and Elizabeth in Plymouth in 1778 (non-con). No sign of a burial for either the first wife or the daughter.
Last night I found a likely burial for Myles' widow, but her age was not recorded. I thought it was on Ancestry and either 1817 or 1820 in Plymouth, but I can't find it now. If she was significantly younger than Myles, she could even be the daughter of Jarvis Chambers (in the will) as there's a baptism for Eliz dau of Jarvis in London in 1765!
Kate, don't you think the two Dixon to Sawrey marriages are a bit early for either of them to Anthony's sister? It is just possible I suppose.
I have been trying to get back to this all day and OH has decided we really should go shopping for a new lounge.......him wot sits only in his recliner and hates shopping!!!
The Dixons have been hanging around for ages.....I have about 20 USB sticks here with info I took from my old computer before it died and I know I have wills. I will try to go through them tonight whilst 'imself sits in his recliner (because he didn't like any of the lounges) and watches some violent rubbish on TV...
kiterunner
19-10-13, 10:17
Kate, don't you think the two Dixon to Sawrey marriages are a bit early for either of them to Anthony's sister? It is just possible I suppose.
The marriage of Ann Dixon to George Hayton was 1720, so Ann must have been born quite close to 1700, mustn't she? (The Haytons' daughter Frances married Bryan Robinson 8 Dec 1744 Kendal, so she is probably Frances Hayton baptised 8 Oct 1721 at Kendal, confirming that the 1720 marriage is the correct one for Ann Dixon.)
How does Hayton connect with the Sawreys? I only looked for George Dixon marrying a Sawrey and came up with Sarah or Dorothy in 1696 and 1700 respectively.
Bother, I have to go out with dau to buy some revision guides (her idea - I should be pleased, but I'd rather stay here and look at this! lol)
lol Libby!!!
kiterunner
19-10-13, 10:28
How does Hayton connect with the Sawreys? I only looked for George Dixon marrying a Sawrey and came up with Sarah or Dorothy in 1696 and 1700 respectively.
Look at post #13. I have to go out shopping too! :d
Found the missing child of David Kirkby and Agatha Sawrey (not that it means much to this)
Anthony 25 Feb 1783, so second last child.
I remember getting a letter from one of the Lancs OPCs. He checked the PRs and then the BTs for David and Agatha.
Interestingly Ann's baptism of 1778 has her mother as Agnes in the PR.
The BT reads...
"The mother's name is Agatha D.r of Anthony Sawrey of Conistone waterh. Husbandman By Elis. his wife Born Nov the 26th day 1778. Baptized Dec 28th day.
Ann is the daughter of David Kirkby and Agatha (Sawrey). David is the son of William Kirkby and Agnes Addison, his wife. Agatha is the daughter of Anthony Sawrey of Conistone Waterhead and Elisabeth. David's mother, Agnes is the daughter of Hugh Addison."
Wouldn't you love to find more of those......pity is the Bishop gives all this info but neglects to tell us Anthony Sawrey's wife's maiden name.....lol
kiterunner
19-10-13, 12:33
Okay, I think I have a suggestion for one of the wills you should order from Lancashire Archives:
Sawrey Milonis of Waterhead in Monk Conniston, Furness 1727
(found on Lancashire Will Search:
http://user.xmission.com/~nelsonb/lws.htm
I didn't find it before because I was putting in a first name of Miles or Myles! According to a public tree on ancestry, the Myles who was Anthony's father died in 1727, so this should be his will (and maybe it will mention George Dixon and his wife and children).
That looks really hopeful, Kate.
It was your post 15 I was thinking about re the Dixons and Sawreys.
Tried to get by head round post 13 again (again, again!!), but as soon as I move away from it I forget what it said!!
kiterunner
19-10-13, 12:47
Looking at Ann Dixon's marriage to George Hayton on FamilySearch again, it says she was of Staveley. Just so we know! Maybe we can find something about the Dixon family of Staveley.
kiterunner
19-10-13, 12:57
Tried to get by head round post 13 again (again, again!!), but as soon as I move away from it I forget what it said!!
I have done a summary of the people involved, hope I have got it right:
1753
George Dixon, deceased: had daughter Ann who married George Hayton.
Children of George and Ann Hayton:
Thomas, John, Eleanor, Frances and Mary
Frances married Bryan Robinson
Anthony Sawrey, brother-in-law of George Dixon: had children Miles and Agnes plus unnamed "infants".
George Walker, brother-in-law of George Dixon; had children George, John, Elizabeth and unnamed female "infant"
Jonathan Wilson, brother-in-law of George Dixon; had children John, Miles, Elizabeth and Mary and unnamed "infants".
There is a George Wilson, infant, grandson of a George Wilson, not sure where they fit in, also an Ann Dixon and a Dorothy Dixon, ditto.
Maybe if we trace George Dixon's other brothers-in-law above, it will help.
Maybe if we trace George Dixon's other brothers-in-law above, it will help.
Struggling to find anything that seems right!!
I don't know what to think about this? As Kate posted, George Dixon's list of relations is from 1753 and mentions:
Jonathan Wilson, brother-in-law of George Dixon; had children John, Miles, Elizabeth and Mary and unnamed "infants".
I just wondered if brother-in-law could extend to the brother-in-law of George Dixon's wife? We think George married Anthony Sawrey's sister (name not yet known) and we have a list of potential siblings for Anthony. One of those is Ann who was baptised in 1709 (she may well be the youngest in the family)
Then there's this marriage:
Marriage: 6 May 1739 St Michael and All Angels, Hawkshead, Lancashire, England
Jona: Wilson
Anne Sawrey
and then these baptisms at Colton which is about ten miles away:
John 1740
Elizabeth 1741
Myles 1743
Mary 1746
Ann and Jane 1749 (these two are baptised a couple of months apart, so there may be two Jonathan's having children in the parish)
Mary 1753
But I don't know if they feel right *sigh*
kiterunner
19-10-13, 14:56
I just wondered if brother-in-law could extend to the brother-in-law of George Dixon's wife? We think George married Anthony Sawrey's sister (name not yet known) and we have a list of potential siblings for Anthony. One of those is Ann who was baptised in 1709 (she may well be the youngest in the family)
Then there's this marriage:
Marriage: 6 May 1739 St Michael and All Angels, Hawkshead, Lancashire, England
Jona: Wilson
Anne Sawrey
and then these baptisms at Colton which is about ten miles away:
John 1740
Elizabeth 1741
Myles 1743
Mary 1746
Ann and Jane 1749 (these two are baptised a couple of months apart, so there may be two Jonathan's having children in the parish)
Mary 1753
But I don't know if they feel right *sigh*
Ooh, that looks good.
I'm still struggling with George Dixon having a dau Ann around 1700 (the one who married George Hayton) which means he must have married Anthony's much older sister. Though that's possible, it's made much more difficult when Ann may also have been Anthony's sister, but she is lots younger!
Myles would need to have had more than one wife if he had children over such a wide time scale!
kiterunner
19-10-13, 15:04
There are quite a few Myles Sawrey marriages. I wouldn't be surprised if he (the Myles who was Anthony's father) had more than one wife.
Yes, I was just looking at the marriages again. I'm sure there were fewer last time I looked! lol
The two George Dixon marriages are to Sarah Sawrey in 1696 and to Dorothy Sawrey in 1700.
Myles seems to have had a daughter, Dorothy in 1688, so the marriage in 1700 is presumably not her.....Can't find a Sarah baptism to fit. There's a burial for a Sarah Sawrey, wife of George in 1717, but I couldn't see anything for Dorothy. (I had previously imagined George marrying two sisters, to keep things tidy!!)
Anthony Sawrey, brother-in-law of George Dixon: had children Miles and Agnes plus unnamed "infants".
We don't have a daughter for Anthony called Agnes, do we? I suppose she might have been born in the gap between Myles and the others, perhaps somewhere else?
kiterunner
19-10-13, 15:55
I'm still not sure whether Agatha could be a variant of Agnes? If she was known as Aggie, maybe?
Yes, that's possible.
I don't really understand the concept of naming some children and apparently dismissing others by calling them infants? When is a child an infant? (or when is a child not an infant?). Agatha would have been quite young in 1753.
I forgot to say, re those Wilson baptisms at Colton - they only had the father's name recorded.
kiterunner
19-10-13, 16:08
I don't really understand the concept of naming some children and apparently dismissing others by calling them infants? When is a child an infant? (or when is a child not an infant?). Agatha would have been quite young in 1753.
I don't know, but I wonder whether George Dixon named some of the children in his will, and then the others were born between the date when the will was written and the date of his death?
Oh, that's a brilliant idea!! (I hope it's right lol)
So, would that mean we could pinpoint George's death more precisely? (are we still looking for his will??)
kiterunner
19-10-13, 16:33
(are we still looking for his will??)
Yes, we are.
*hits another brick wall* ;(
When is a child an infant?
Infant comes from a Latin word meaning 'unable to speak'.
lol Shona! I meant legally, but as Kate pointed out they might be separating children already born from those who were not, then my question is irrelevant!
Not that it's helped with George Dixon (*wonders if he's related to the policeman?* :rolleyes:)
Good morning again....
You all seem to be able to conjure up these records and make them make sense.......lol. I look at them and go glassy eyed.
I wouldn't worry about distance here too much. The Dixons (from a descendant so not sure how true) apparently came from Grassmere. The Kirkbys were from around there as well. I will grab my notes from under all these wills I had out last night.
I wonder if "infant" meant an unborn child. There seemed to be quite a lot of "abortive" children in the Hawkshead register.
I wonder if "infant" meant an unborn child. There seemed to be quite a lot of "abortive" children in the Hawkshead register.
That can't be right - they know the sex of one and there are plural infants in some families!!
I am fairly sure that infants in the legal connection means minors and refers to Miles and A, who would both be under age at the time.
Miles seems to have had a single sister when he died. There could have been other siblings who predeceased him without issue, of course.
kiterunner
19-10-13, 21:46
I am fairly sure that infants in the legal connection means minors and refers to Miles and A, who would both be under age at the time.
But if you look at the bit about George Walker's children, there are several named, and then one unnamed infant.
Libby, maybe you should just plunge in with a couple of (or more) wills and try to piece together some of the earlier Sawreys - it might be easier to come forward rather then keeping on trying to go backwards!
I don't know if have these already, but might it be possible to sort out any of the earlier Sawreys from these records:
THE WILL OF MILES SAWREY OF THE WATERHEAD, CO. LANC. 1613.
AUGUST 24, 1613. MYLES SAWREY of the Watter-head, to be buried in the church of Haukeshead. To myn elder son William Sawrey my tenement at the Watterhead. To my son Henry the ground I have bought and taken in ffarre Coniston and in this parish. Son in law George Holme ; two sons executors. Supervisors, my well beloved in Christ Mr. Edwyn Sands, my brother Henry Sawrey, my cossin Myles Sawrey, and my sonne in lawe Robert Jopson.
[Proved at York, 4 November, 1613.]
THE WILL OF ANTHONY SAWREY, OF PLUMPTON, CO. LANG. 1624.
JANUARY 28, 1622-3. ANTHONIE SAWREY of Plumpton. To be buried in the chancell of Ulverston, where my father and grandfather were buried. My lands in Plumpton which I bought of Thomas Hutton, to trustees. My sons and daughters, wife Alice, and son Myles Sawrey, executors. Supervisors, my brother Mr. Preston of Holker, my brother Mr. William Farington of Wearden, and my cousin Mr. Myles Doding of Conishead.
[Proved at Richmond, 30 January, 1623-4.]
THE WILL OF WILLIAM SAWREY OF WATERHEAD, CO. LANC. 1632.
MARCH 13, 1631-2. WILLIAM SAWREY of Waterhead, bailife. To be buried in the church of Hawkeshead. My lands at Waterhead to Barbara my wife, for life. To Anthony, son and heire of William Sawrey, and his heirs, a parcell of land called Robert Wrey. My lands at Waterhead, &c., to William, son of my brother Henry Sawrey, and his heirs, in fee. Brothers in law Richard Hodgson and David Tyson, my sister Annes two daughters, my sister Jopson, kinsman William Sawrey, of Cohlthouse.
[Proved at Richmond, 1632.]
THE WILL OF BARBARA SAWREY, WIDOW OF WILLIAM SAWREY OF WATERHEAD, CO. LANC. 1642.
APRIL 27, 1636. BARBARY SAWREY, late wife of William Sawrey of Waterhead, 1 widdow. To be buried in the church of Hauxhead. To the poor of Hauxhead ;io. To the children of William Sawrey, now elder, of Waterhead, $. To the children of Myles Sawrey his brother, 5. To the children of Anthony Sawrey their brother, of Hollin banke, $. To the children of William Sawrey, son of Myles Sawrey, 40^. To William Sawrey, son of Francis Sawrey, John his brother, and Elizabeth their sister, ^"3. To Anthony Sawrey of Coulthouse, and Mabell his wife, 4. To the three sons of my brother James James, William, and George, <). Sister Isabel Harrison, brother James Braithwaite.
[Proved at Richmond, 2 September, 1642.]
The Myles Sawrey 1613 was the great grandfather of Thomas Holme, the Surveyor General of Pennsylvania.
There's a fair bit about them all in Google Books.
It's just a case of connecting which person was the next one back after Anthony.
I will email for a quote for those wills Merry....that's what I have to do apparently.
The more PR entries you can use up on known individuals the easier the jigsaw becomes (unless you've dropped some pieces o the floor of course!)
Not sure about jigsaw pieces, but I think I'm dropping my marbles all over the place....lol
Might have to start on my Hubands...now there's a family....lol
Google Book snippet from the Register of the Company of Merchant Adventurers in the City of York, 1806. The Plumpton branch of the Sawrey family are mentioned.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XTJVUxZuwxMC&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=ANTHONY+SAWREY,+OF+PLUMPTON&source=bl&ots=gOoRXQmFdM&sig=GT5od6DdOb49iXca2UON8u3IACI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Tc9jUsqnIMHM0QW7voDgCw&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=ANTHONY%20SAWREY%2C%20OF%20PLUMPTON&f=false
Ooodles about the Sawrey family this book - The Antiquities of Furness.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=cjdAAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA337&lpg=PA337&dq=ANTHONY+SAWREY,+OF+PLUMPTON&source=bl&ots=5aWKSbusLw&sig=TDL0uHlCvL3PHC_hUY74D2d8Bbg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Tc9jUsqnIMHM0QW7voDgCw&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=ANTHONY%20SAWREY%2C%20OF%20PLUMPTON&f=false
These entries seem to tie together:
Baptism (best fit): 28 Jul 1650 St Michael and All Angels, Hawkshead, Lancashire, England Myles Sawrey - fil. William Sawrey
Cambridge Alumni: Sawrey, Miles : admitted as Milo : son of William : born at Hawkshead. School: Hawkshead, under M'' Bordley. Admitted sizar under M'' Leigh 8 Sept. 1668. Age 20.
Matric". not found. One Miles Sawrey master of Hawkshead school
1 Aug. 1671-72 (Croston-Baines, 5. 622).
Burial: 29 Jul 1672 St Michael and All Angels, Hawkshead, Lancashire, England
Myles Sawrey - Abode: Haukeshead Occupation: Schoolemaster
Myles Sawrey was head of Hawkshead Grammar School for a while. The school was started by Edwyn Sandys. The story of Hawkshead school is interesting as it provided free education to all children to the age of 12 and then on further if the child was capable. Some of the "free" students went of to Cambridge.
They were not taught Latin until they had mastered English which also went against the norm of the time.
Sandys hated the Catholic Church, so one would expect Myles to do so as well. Remember Myles was a name given in almost all families in that area and was in memory of Myles Gerard apparently who was a Catholic priest who was killed while saying Mass.
This same Sawrey family are noted in one of the Quaker articles and helped establish a Baptist church in the local area. One went to France to the Catholic seminary.
They certainly had eclectic tastes in religion which did not seem to cause any trouble in a time where religion was causing trouble all through England.
I have replied to the records office reply asking about those wills. I can get five at a time, so am happy to be told which five would be best.
Olde Crone
20-10-13, 22:28
Post 113, Shona mentions Plumpton. Libby, you MUST remember that Myles Gerrard's head was being carefully preserved in Woodplumpton by the Holdens?
OC
tenterfieldjulie
21-10-13, 00:26
Err where is it now? ~~~~~~~~~~~~
Time to hand it over them OC.
Post 113, Shona mentions Plumpton. Libby, you MUST remember that Myles Gerrard's head was being carefully preserved in Woodplumpton by the Holdens?
OC
How could I forget the head in the china cabinet, OC? lol
The first will should be this one that Kate found:
Furness Sawrey Milonis of Waterhead in Monk Conniston, Furness 1727
because he may be the father of the right Anthony (not that you are going to know that from the will, but it may help sort out some of the others)
I was going to suggest getting some of the female wills because you might either discover the name of the late husband and then be able to tie a couple to their children or if she's a spinster then they often leave their property to a wider range of relatives. Having said that, there don't seem to be many female Sawrey testators! A couple of Margarets at Hawkshead, but none at Waterhead.
There are a couple of wills of people called X Sawrey jr which might enable you tie a group of relatives to an extra generation if the testators father has the same name. (all these ideas are best case scenario! lol)
We can't be certain of the will of George Dixon (can we anyone?), sadly otherwise that might have been one to get.
I'm sure others will have more ideas.
Just thought I'd come back to this and remembered I have not had a reply to my request for a quote for the wills. I'll wait till after the holidays and resend it. You have to get the quote before they will send the application to you....lol
Libby - Did you ever get a reply?
No....but thanks for reminding me.
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