A tree for a friend

[HarrysMum]

Some of you may know a good friend of mine passed away yesterday. It was very peaceful and expected so I am not too upset.

I have been trying to start a tree for her for ages and we kept getting side-tracked. However, I thought I would put some effort into it now for her daughter.

Myra's father was Norman Valentine Weller born 14th Feb 1913 Shepway Kent.

He married Margaret Kathleen Roberts in 1940.

He died 1966.

I have Norman's parents in 1911. James Weller and May (nee Richardson) with a baby James Frederick Viney Weller born 1911. James died as an infant and Myra never knew he existed.

Now.....that is about where I am. Not far, I know.

I really can't afford to buy too much, but I know I will need to get a couple of certs at least.

If anyone is bored I'd love a bit of a jump start. Thanks.

[ElizabethHerts]

Libby, I was so sad to hear of Myra's passing, but I'm glad she had a peaceful end. This is for her.

So 1911:

1911 Census
WELLER, James Frederick Viney
GUILDFORD, Surrey
Reference RG14PN3072 RG78PN110 RD33 SD4 ED6 SN74
43 Markenfield Road Guildford
James Weller Head 25 married Telephone wireman Born Sussex Portslade
Mary Weller Wife 20 Married under one year 1 child, still living Born Godalming Surrey
James Frederick Viney Weller 1 month

[ElizabethHerts]

Name: WELLER, James
Registration district: Guildford
County: Surrey
Year of registration: 1910
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 2A
Page no: 191
Spouse: May Richardson

[ElizabethHerts]

Here is Jim (James) Weller in 1901:

1901 Census
WELLER, Jim
STEYNING, Sussex
RG13 piece 943 folio 66 page 39
9, Clarence Street, Portslade By Sea
John WELLER Head Widower M 46 General Labourer Sussex
Fred WELLER Son Single M 19 Labourer Sussex
Jim WELLER Son Single M 14 Labourer Sussex
Lill WELLER Daughter Single F 12 Sussex
Dick WELLER Son Single M 4 Sussex
Ellen PUMPHREY Servant Single F 53 Suffolk

[ElizabethHerts]

It looks as though this could be James' birth:

Births Sep 1886
Weller James Steyning 2b 303

Steyning covers Portslade and Portslade by Sea.

(Off to bed - I hope to see lots more on here in the morning.)

[kiterunner]

How do we know that is the same James Weller without his marriage certificate?

[HarrysMum]

I will have to make a list of certs to buy. Anyone can add to the list and I'll see what I can manage.

[Merry]

How do we know that is the same James Weller without his marriage certificate?

I've not yet found another James born in Portslade at the right time.

If it is all the same person then it's interesting James married a Richardson as the 1891 census shows John Weller's mother to be Jane.....

4 Clarence St, Portslade

John Weller head m 34 brickmaker b Brighton, Sussex
Jane Weller wife m 33 b Amberley, Sussex
Frederick Weller 9 scholar b Portslade
Mary Weller 8 ditto
William Weller 6 ditto
Jens Weller 4 ditto
Matilda Weller 3 ditto
Rosa Weller 5/12 b Portslade

and it looks like she was a Richardson too!


Marriages Jun 1880
RICHARDSON Jane Eliza Steyning 2b 427
WELLER John Steyning 2b 427

I think in any event you will need the 1910 marriage cert to sort out May/Mary Richardson as I'm not sure which one she is before 1911.

[HarrysMum]

Myra always knew her as May, but that doesn't prove she wasn't a Mary.

[kiterunner]

I will have to make a list of certs to buy. Anyone can add to the list and I'll see what I can manage.

I think you would be best to get James and May's marriage certificate first and wait to order any more until you have that one.

[HarrysMum]

Will do. I don't suppose UK Certs are downloadable yet?

[kiterunner]

No, I'm afraid not.
Edit - well, if their marriage was in the Surrey Marriages on ancestry you would be able to download it from there, but I couldn't find it in there.

[kiterunner]

Aha! Found it on FamilySearch, now why couldn't I find it last night?!


Name: James Weller
Birth Date: 1886
Age: 24
Spouse's Name: Mary Richardson
Spouse's Birth Date: 1890
Spouse's Age: 20
Event Date: 01 Aug 1910
Event Place: St. Savior'S Church, Stoke-Next-Guildford, Surrey, England
Father's Name: John Frederick Weller
Spouse's Father's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I04498-8
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 2232877
Reference ID: item 5-9 p.11


But I can't get it to tell me the name of Mary Richardson's father!

[kiterunner]

There is a John Frederick Weller birth registered Oct-Dec 1856 Brighton, but I can't see a marriage (edit - it is that marriage that Merry found but he wasn't using his middle name). Likely death John F Weller Apr-Jun 1930 age 73, Steyning, vol 2b, p 364.
National Probate Calendar 1930
WELLER John Frederick of 27 Shelldale-road Portslade Sussex died 20 May 1930 Probate Lewes 6 June to James Weller post office employee. Effects £158.

[kiterunner]

If it is all the same person then it's interesting James married a Richardson as the 1891 census shows John Weller's mother to be Jane.....

4 Clarence St, Portslade

John Weller head m 34 brickmaker b Brighton, Sussex
Jane Weller wife m 33 b Amberley, Sussex
Frederick Weller 9 scholar b Portslade
Mary Weller 8 ditto
William Weller 6 ditto
Jens Weller 4 ditto
Matilda Weller 3 ditto
Rosa Weller 5/12 b Portslade



James's name is Jem on the image but mistranscribed as Jens by ancestry. I have put in a correction.

This is the 1881:
4 George Street, Portslade, Sussex
John Weller Head Mar 23 Labourer Sussex Brighton
Jane E Do Wife Mar 22 Do Amberly
Alfred Richardson Brother Unm 20 Labourer Do Portslade

[ElizabethHerts]

I'm looking for baptisms for John Frederick Weller:

Entry from Hove St Andrew 1862 - 1874
First names John Frederick
Surname WELLER
Sex s
Baptism Date 15-Feb
Year baptised 1863
Father first names James
Father surname WELLER
Mother first names Eliza
Mother surname WELLER
Occupation Labourer
Parish Hove
County East Sussex

Entry from Brighton St Nicholas 1870 - 1871
First names John Frederick
Surname WELLER
Sex s
Baptism Date 09-Oct
Year baptised 1870
Father first names Samuel
Father surname WELLER
Mother first names Fanny
Mother surname WELLER
Occupation Labourer
Abode 29 Warwick Street
Parish Brighton
County East Sussex

I haven't found anything earlier yet.

[ElizabethHerts]

First names Frederick John
Surname WELLAR
Sex s
Baptism Date 05-Jun
Year baptised 1881
Father first names John
Father surname WELLAR
Mother first names Jane
Mother surname WELLAR
Occupation Labourer
Parish Portslade on Sea
County East Sussex

First names Mary Ann
Surname WELLAR
Sex d
Baptism Date 07-Jan
Year baptised 1883
Father first names John
Father surname WELLAR
Mother first names Jane
Mother surname WELLAR
Occupation Labourer
Parish Portslade on Sea
County East Sussex

First names William George
Surname WELLAR
Sex s
Baptism Date 05-Apr
Year baptised 1885
Father first names John
Father surname WELLAR
Mother first names Eliza
Mother surname WELLAR
Occupation Labourer
Parish Portslade on Sea
County East Sussex

First names James
Surname WELLAR
Sex s
Baptism Date 03-Oct
Year baptised 1886
Father first names John
Father surname WELLAR
Mother first names Jane
Mother surname WELLAR
Occupation Labourer
Parish Portslade on Sea
County East Sussex

First names Matilda
Surname WELLER
Sex d
Baptism Date 01-Apr
Year baptised 1888
Father first names John
Father surname WELLER
Mother first names Jane
Mother surname WELLER
Occupation Labourer
Parish Portslade on Sea
County East Sussex

First names Rosina
Surname WELLER
Sex d
Baptism Date 05-Apr
Baptism Year 1891
Birth date 10-Nov
Birth Year 1890
Father first names John Frederick
Father surname WELLER
Mother first names Jane Eliza
Mother surname WELLER
Occupation Labourer
Town Portslade on Sea
County East Sussex

First names Jane Eliza
Surname WELLER
Sex d
Baptism Date 01-Jan
Baptism Year 1893
Birth date 11-Nov
Birth Year 1892
Father first names John Frederick
Father surname WELLER
Mother first names Jane Eliza
Mother surname WELLER
Occupation Labourer
Town Portslade on Sea
County East Sussex

First names Emily Ellen
Surname WELLER
Sex d
Baptism Date 03-Feb
Baptism Year 1895
Birth date 28-Nov
Birth Year 1894
Father first names John Frederick
Mother first names Jane Eliza
Mother surname WELLER
Occupation Labourer
Town Portslade on Sea
County East Sussex

First names Richard George
Surname WELLER
Sex s
Baptism Date 06-Jun
Baptism Year 1897
Birth date 07-Jan
Birth Year 1897
Father first names John Frederick
Father surname WELLER
Mother first names Jane Eliza
Mother surname WELLER
Occupation Labourer
Town Portslade on Sea
County East Sussex
Father surname WELLER

[ElizabethHerts]

Sorted them out:

John and Jane:
Frederick John 1881
Mary Ann 1883
James 1886
Matilda 1888

John and Eliza:
William George 1885

John Frederick and Jane Eliza:
Rosina 1891
Jane Eliza 1893
Emily Ellen 1895
Richard George 1897

From the 1901 Census we have Fred aged 19 and Dick aged 4, so looks like the same couple all the way through. William George's mum is just Eliza, but would fit with same couple.

[ElizabethHerts]

Re. John Frederick Weller, born c. 1857, this one appears in Portslade in 1871:

1861 Census
WELLER, John
STEYNING, Sussex
RG09 piece 604 folio 99 page 14
43, George Street, Hove
James Weller Head Mar 37 Bricklayer (written agains Eliza!) Sussex Horsham
Eliza Mar 30 Washerwoman (written against John!) Sussex Brighton
John Son 4 Sussex Hove
Richard Son 3 Sussex Hove
Martha Daur 2 Sussex Hove

1871 Census
WELLER, John
STEYNING, Sussex
RG10 piece 1093 folio 50 page 43
East Street, Portslade
James Weller Head 42 Lab in Brickfield Sussex Hand Cross
John Weller Son Unm 14 Do Sussex Cliftonville
Richard Son 13 do Sussex Cliftonville
Martha Daur 11 Scholar Sussex Cliftonville
William Son 9 Scholar Sussex Cliftonville
Mary Daur 7 Scholar Sussex Cliftonville
Sarah Daur 3 Sussex Portslade

1881 Census
WELLER, John
STEYNING, Sussex
RG11 piece 1103 folio 66 page 56
4, George Street, Portslade
John Weller Head Mar 23 Labourer Sussex Brighton
Jane E Weller Wife Mar 22 Sussex Amberley
Alfred Richardson Brother 20 Sussex Portslade

The wife looks like Jane Eliza, mother of the children above.

[ElizabethHerts]

Jane Eliza Weller's death:

Name: WELLER, Jane Eliza
Registration district: Steyning
County: Sussex
Year of registration: 1899
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at death: 41
Volume no: 2B
Page no: 187

[HarrysMum]

Wow.....thanks.

I will put in all into Legacy (in faint print until I get certs...lol)

[Shona]

Impressive work.

Going back to the very beginning:

Norman Valentine Weller, birth registered AMJ 1915, Guildford, Surrey.

The death reg for Norman is Feb 1996, Shepway, Kent, age 83. The d.o.b. is given as 14 Feb 1913.

Norman's father, James, is likely to have served in WW1, but I can't find a match in the Army service records or pension records. Too many hits in the medal record cards.

[ElizabethHerts]

First names Jane Eliza
Surname RICHARDSON
Sex d
Baptism Date 14-Nov
Year baptised 1858
Father first names Richard
Father surname RICHARDSON
Mother first names Fanny
Mother surname RICHARDSON
Baptised at St Michael, Amberley.

[Phoenix]

*waits patiently for connections to be made with Searles in Amberley or Richardsons in Shermanbury*

[ElizabethHerts]

Aha! Found it on FamilySearch, now why couldn't I find it last night?!


Name: James Weller
Birth Date: 1886
Age: 24
Spouse's Name: Mary Richardson
Spouse's Birth Date: 1890
Spouse's Age: 20
Event Date: 01 Aug 1910
Event Place: St. Savior'S Church, Stoke-Next-Guildford, Surrey, England
Father's Name: John Frederick Weller
Spouse's Father's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I04498-8
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 2232877
Reference ID: item 5-9 p.11


But I can't get it to tell me the name of Mary Richardson's father!

St Saviour's comes under Guildford, not Stoke-next-Guildford, and Ancestry only has these marriages:

Date Range

1899 Nov-1900 Dec

[ElizabethHerts]

This looks like Richard and Fanny's marriage:

Name: Richard Richardson
Birth Date: 1837
Age: 20
Spouse's Name: Fanny Philby
Spouse's Birth Date: 1837
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age: 20
Event Date: 19 Jul 1857
Event Place: Brighton St Nicholas, Sussex, England
Father's Name: Thomas Richardson
Spouse's Father's Name: John Philby
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M13533-2

[kiterunner]

Norman Valentine Weller, birth registered AMJ 1915, Guildford, Surrey.

The death reg for Norman is Feb 1996, Shepway, Kent, age 83. The d.o.b. is given as 14 Feb 1913.



His birth registration is Jan-Mar 1913, so that fits with the date of birth on his death reg. I've checked the GRO birth index image on FreeBMD. Maybe it is wrong on ancestry? But I can't get ancestry to load at the moment to check.

[ElizabethHerts]

Fanny's baptism?

St Michael, Amberley
First names Fanny
Surname PHILBY
Sex d
Baptism Date 16-Apr
Year baptised 1837
Father first names John
Father surname PHILBY
Mother first names Caroline
Mother surname PHILBY

[Shona]

His birth registration is Jan-Mar 1913, so that fits with the date of birth on his death reg. I've checked the GRO birth index image on FreeBMD. Maybe it is wrong on ancestry? But I can't get ancestry to load at the moment to check.

Can't get Ancestry to load either, but FMP has the registration as JFM 1913, MMN Richardson.

[ElizabethHerts]

1841 Census
PHILBY, Caroline
WORTHING, Sussex
HO107 piece 1092 folio 1/13 page 1
High Street, Amberley
John Philby 54 Tailor
Caroline 35
Alfred 13
Ann 8
Jane 10
Charlotte 5
Fanny 4
Ellen 2
Robert 1 month
All born in county.

Name: John Philby
Spouse's Name: Caroline Gray
Event Date: 25 Dec 1820
Event Place: Amberley, Sussex, England
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I03150-9

John Philby died in 1848. Here is his burial:
FORENAME John
SURNAME PHILBY
AGE 59y
BURIAL DATE 23-Apr
YEAR 1848
PLACE Amberley
LOCATION St.Michael

[ElizabethHerts]

Fanny is a nursemaid for the Float family at Shoreham in 1851.

1851 Census
FILBY, Fanny
THAKEHAM, Sussex
HO107 piece 1650 folio 248 page 9

[ElizabethHerts]

Baptisms for John and Caroline Philby at Amberley:

Phoebe 28/5/1822
Caroline 23/11/1823
Harriet 22/1/1826
Alfred 6/1/1828
Ann 31/10/1830
Charlotte 19/4/1835
Fanny 16/4/1837
Ellen 2/4/1839
Emma ?/3/1844
Frederick 10/12/1845

[ElizabethHerts]

Returning to the Wellers:

Children for James and Eliza Weller, all baptised at St. Andrew, Hove:

Richard 16 Apr 1858
George 2 Nov 1861

Willliam
Martha
John Frederick
Richard - all baptised 15 Feb 1863 so this isn't the year of birth for them all

Mary Ann 6 Nov 1864
Ellen Jane 25 Aug 1872 Abode PORTSLADE

Here is the census again for the family:

1861 Census
WELLER, John
STEYNING, Sussex
RG09 piece 604 folio 99 page 14
43, George Street, Hove
James Weller Head Mar 37 Bricklayer (written agains Eliza!) Sussex Horsham
Eliza Mar 30 Washerwoman (written against John!) Sussex Brighton
John Son 4 Sussex Hove
Richard Son 3 Sussex Hove
Martha Daur 2 Sussex Hove

1871 Census
WELLER, John
STEYNING, Sussex
RG10 piece 1093 folio 50 page 43
East Street, Portslade
James Weller Head 42 Lab in Brickfield Sussex Hand Cross
John Weller Son Unm 14 Do Sussex Cliftonville
Richard Son 13 do Sussex Cliftonville
Martha Daur 11 Scholar Sussex Cliftonville
William Son 9 Scholar Sussex Cliftonville
Mary Daur 7 Scholar Sussex Cliftonville
Sarah Daur 3 Sussex Portslade

Baptism for Sarah:
7 June 1868 Portslade St Nicholas

Also:
Eliza Jane Mary 11 Jan 1874 Father James mother Elizabeth but I think Eliza was dead.

Possible burial for Eliza:
FORENAME Elizabeth?
SURNAME WELLER?
AGE 40y
BURIAL DATE 5-May
YEAR 1870
OTHER Portslade by Sea
PLACE Portslade
LOCATION St.Nicholas

age is correct

[Merry]

Libby, re May/Mary Richardson/Weller - you mentioned Myra knew her as May - do you have any idea when or where she died? (trying to establish which birth might be her)

[HarrysMum]

Sorry I don't know. Myra's husband may know but I won't ask just at the moment.

[Merry]

Fair enough.

[ElizabethHerts]

James Weller married Eliza Martin Dec qr 1853 Brighton