familysearch trees

[Ann from Sussex]

Does anyone know anything about the tree facility on familysearch? I have just come across it and put in my grandfather's name because I know his birth in New York in 1880 was on the old IGI. Sure enough, he appears on a tree which contains just him and his parents...the exact information that was on the IGI. Then I found a second tree, this one showing my gt grandparents as the parents of a hitherto unknown child born in 1899. On this tree my gt grandmother's maiden name is wrongly spelt which may be why the two trees haven't been connected to each other.For both trees it says the details were added by familysearch in June 2012. This made me think that the unknown brother must be on the site's records....but when I put his name in to search their New York births it says there are none. Each name on both trees has a reference number but I can't work out what it means; on the tree showing my grandfather the reference doesn't bear any relation to the numbers on the familysearch birth record for him. Where has this information come from and how can I find out any more about it? Has anyone else found anything useful from these trees? Is there anyone you can contact to find out where the information came from? It all seems so complicated and hard to fathom - I'm even finding it hard to put across what I'm talking about here! Oh for the old days of the IGI!

[kiterunner]

I think they are probably taken from trees that have been submitted to them, but it might be easier to help if you post up the names etc.

[Ann from Sussex]

Sorry, yes I should have given you some details.

The tree entry in question is for FREDERICK LENHART (Ref: L7WS-ZCS) born 23rd August 1899 in Manhattan, New York City with parents HARRY LENHART (Ref: L7WS-ZC3) and SARAH MARGUIS (Ref: L7WS-ZCQ). This name has been wrongly read/transcribed as her maiden name was Marquis.

For comparison, this is the tree entry for my grandfather:

HARRY LENHART (Ref: ML3W-6V6) born 8th July 1880 in Manhattan,New York City with parents HARRY LENHART (Ref: ML3W-6KZ) and SARAH JANE MARQUIS LENHART (Ref: ML3W-6KP). All this information was on the old IGI and is now under the site's New York births but I can't find Frederick there or anywhere else on familysearch except on this mysterious tree. I might add that he doesn't appear with the rest of the family on the 1900 census so either he died in infancy or he is a figment of someone's imagination. However, on that census Sarah is shown as having had 8 children, 5 of whom are still alive....but only 4 were living with her and Harry senior then. One of the 4 is my grandfather.

[kiterunner]

Sorry, Ann, but can you post a link to where you found this, please? I looked around on the FamilySearch site yesterday evening but couldn't find it!

[Ann from Sussex]

Here's the link

https://familysearch.org/tree/#view=ancestor&person=L7WS-ZCS

although I'm not sure if you will be able to see the page from it. I have had to sign in to the site even to be able to search the trees so you may have to. If you do have to, on the home page, click on Family Tree. When the tree page comes up, click on Find and then enter all the details for Frederick Lenhart that are in my post.

As I have said before, I find this "new" familysearch a very hard site to navigate around and mourn the days of the dear old IGI!

[kiterunner]

Thanks, Ann. I thought they might have come from the old ancestral file / pedigree resource file, but I found a way of searching those and didn't find him on there. FamilySearch used to have a forum of their own which would have been ideal for asking something like this, but they closed it down a while ago. You could try one of their "Get Help" options, I suppose.

[Ann from Sussex]

Thanks, Ann. I thought they might have come from the old ancestral file / pedigree resource file, but I found a way of searching those and didn't find him on there. FamilySearch used to have a forum of their own which would have been ideal for asking something like this, but they closed it down a while ago. You could try one of their "Get Help" options, I suppose.

Just got around to sending them a query as to where this info about Frederick came from. I'll let you know what they say. Watch this space!

[Ann from Sussex]

Here is the reply I've just received which tells me....absolutely nothing! Doing as the recommended article instructs me doesn't come up with any matching record. I have managed to correct my gt grandmother's maiden name but otherwise, I give up!

"Dear Ann,

Thank you for contacting FamilySearch with your question about where the information for Frederick Lenhart L7WS-ZCS came from.

When you see FamilySearch listed as a contributor in the latest changes field, it indicates the information for this record has migrated from our previous system, new FamilySearch.

We went into that program and found the ID number and then clicked the "Individual Sources" link at the bottom of the summary page. The information for the family relationship was entered into the system through a previous extraction project as indicated in the sources field.

The spelling of the names as well as the dates provided and the location provided are just as the appeared when they were extracted.

If you want to correct or add any additional information to these ancestral records, you may want to review article 1027978 which is attached below.

To find additional sources for the information that has been migrated, please use the "Research Field" to the right of the Vital Information on these ancestors' details pages. Article 115473 explains how to use this new feature.

With other questions and concerns, please feel free to contact us toll-free at 1-866-406-1830, or through a live chat, as well as by email.

Best wishes with all of your Family History efforts.

Sincerely,

FamilySearch
Patron and Partner Services
[email protected]"

[kiterunner]

It does give this information on "new FamilySearch":

Source Source type: Other, Image number: 869, Record number: 363, Batch number: C04551-4, Location in source: cn 33864, Source template: IBIR, Locality: New York (City), New York, United States, Language: English - Repaging, Contributor: EXTRACTION

So it does look as though it came from records of some kind rather than being invented by someone doing their own family tree, at least.

If you plug that batch number into FamilySearch it comes up with nothing, though. Same for the call number, if that's what cn stands for.

[Ann from Sussex]

Thanks Kate. As you say, it does look as though I did indeed have a Gt Uncle Fred - if only I could find some descendants I would be in 7th heaven. I have never found anyone else (apart from my sister) who is descended from my gt grandparents and I would love to.

[kiterunner]

He is listed on ancestry in the New York City Births 1891-1902:

Frederick Lenhart (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=nybirths%2c&rank=0&=%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c% 2c%2c%2c&gsfn=fred*&gsln=lenhar*t&sx=&gs1co=2%2cUSA&gs1pl=35%2cNew+York&year=&yearend=&sbo=1&sbor=&ufr=0&wp=4%3b_80000002%3b_80000003&srchb=r&prox=1&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=34&fh=1&h=472580&recoff=8+9&ml_rpos=2)

Link to page with information about database:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=5157&enc=1

[Ann from Sussex]

Ah, I don't have Ancestry membership any more which is why I hadn't seen that. I think I may treat myself and send for his birth certificate although it isn't going to tell me anything I don't already know so is it worth it? I'll sleep on it!

[Kit]

This is all that is on Ancestry and includes the cert number:


New York City, Births, 1891-1902 about Frederick Lenhart
Name: Frederick Lenhart
Birth Date: 23 Aug 1899
Birth Place: New York, New York
Certificate Number: 33864

I don't know what are on US certs but it might be worth looking at seeing what is contained and ordering it if there is more than name, date and place of birth and paretns.

[Janet]

That from Toni and this website below may be all you need, Ann.

NYC Department of Records - online birth certificate request before 1910 (http://www.nyc.gov/dorforms/birthcert.jsp)

EDIT: At risk of hijacking your thread, I just have to tell you that by idly having one more look for Frederick Lenhart, I happened across a web site quoting the existence of a Fred Lenhart working the circus who didn't seem to be yours at all, wrong dates. (And didn't you find a death for him at an early age, anyway?) From there I jumped to thinking how my mother had circus connections (secretary to the head of a merry-go-round manufacturer) and decided to see what I could find on her employer by putting in the name of the town on that circus history website. Lo and behold, what turned up was someone on a forum talking about people in the same town who trained live seals for circus acts, right across the Erie Canal from where I grew up. Aha! So now I have solved my longstanding mystery of those people my father took me to see when I was very, very little, who had trained seals in their backyard that played a tune on their horns for me. I wonder if my mother set that visit up? I remember the yard seemed very wide to me. Well, I found them on the 1940 census and it was two households of the same family in two neighboring houses. Obviously they must have had the seals in a facility that bridged the two back yards.

For anyone interested who can see it, look for the two heads of household with occupation Trainer and industry Seal(s) Business.
Trainer - Seal Business (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2442/m-t0627-02530-00702/3671070?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3d1940usfedcen%26h%3d3671070%26 indiv%3dtry%26o_vc%3dRecord%253aOtherRecord%26rhSo urce%3d70050&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord)

You just never know what you're going to find!!! :D

[Ann from Sussex]

Thanks Kate and Janet. I still haven't done anything about getting Fred's certificate. I already have my grandfather's (Fred's eldest brother),ordered from that source Janet gives so know that New York certificates give place and date of birth, parents' names (including mother's maiden name), their ages, places of birth, address and father's occupation....all of which I already know. To be honest, I don't feel I can justify sending for a certificate which would only be for the sake of having it. What I would really like to know is, does he have any descendants? I have never found any descendants of my gt. grandparents, other than my sister and me and our children so it would be a wonderful thing to find we had cousins in America.

Oh Janet, I do wish the Fred Lenhart who worked in a circus WAS my great uncle. What a fantastic thing to be able to boast of!!! Actually, no, I don't have any proof of an early death for my Gt Uncle Fred. Familysearch just says he is deceased - highly likely since he would now be 114 years old. There is the fact that he isn't listed with the rest of the family on the 1900 census which might suggest he died in infancy. However, my gt grandmother is shown on that census as having given birth to 8 children, 5 of whom are still alive in 1900....but only 4 are on the census in the family home. My grandfather, the eldest, aged 20, is there and the next in age is 10 years younger than him, followed by two more who are 7 and 4 so there is a big gap. Who is and where is the 5th child? He or she is most likely to come between my grandfather and his 10 year old sister I think, suggesting that Fred had died.

I am glad my posting lead to you finding out more about your own family Janet. Isn't it funny how that can happen?

[Janet]

Well, there's someone looking for "great grandad, Frederick Lenhart, born about 1880" which is almost 20 years out but maybe she's wrong on her dob? She doesn't sound too terribly sure. Here are the two links I was looking at:

circus history - message board (http://www.circushistory.org/Query/Query08d.htm)

circus history - Bandwagon (http://www.circushistory.org/Bandwagon/bw-1966Sep.htm)

If he joined the circus, that would certainly explain why you couldn't find him around home again! It's intriguing if nothing else, but maybe just a red herring I'm throwing at you here.

[Ann from Sussex]

Thanks for those links Janet. I have just sent an email to the guy who posted that request back in 2008. It is a bit of a long shot but you never know...and it might just turn out to be the right Fred! I'll let you know what, if anything, comes of it.

[Ann from Sussex]

Ah well, that's the end of that line of enquiry. My email has just bounced back because "the recipient does not exist here". Not surprising after over 5 years I suppose!

[Janet]

Awww, rats, Ann! :(

[Janet]

Maybe you can play around with Googling, Ann. I just tried a long shot:

"name removed" gallan iowa

There are some potentially interesting hits there. I have to go out now, but maybe you can make something of it.

That's the name he signed on the board, and a fragment of the old email address, and Iowa (the state) because that's what the domain indicates. Maybe Iowa Telecom turned into some other company name? He could have gallan@something-else-that-it-turned-into for his email now.

EDIT: Oh, shoot, very sorry, Kite, and I always try to be so careful. :o:o:o