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For William & Ann Heaven either in the Taunton area or Stroud area.
Their ages would be about 70 and 65 approx.
Jood, Do you have any more clues? I can't find a William with an Ann of the right sort of ages and in the right area in 1851 or 1841. Are the definitely both still alive? Do you know where either of them were born? Do you know where any surviving children were living and do you already have the census pages for those children?
The nearest I can get is in 1841 is a Wm and Ann in Minchinhampton (near Stroud) but they are already 70 and 60 years of age (both born in county and Wm is a pig dealer)
Sorry, I'll try and give you as much info as I can. I apologise also, it should be William and Elizabeth Heaven (not Ann).
1841 Census at Stroud shows William aged 60, a labourer & Elizabeth 55. He was a labourer
They were living in Staunton in 1851
They had 3 children
Ann b 9 Jan 1820
James b 1824 b Uley, Glos
Margaret Elizabeth b 13 Jun 1826 In Uley, Glos
In the 1841 James is in Bristol (H0107 piece 371 folio 47 page 32
In the 1851 he is in Staunton Nr Ledbury, Head, unmarried aged 27, Labourer, born Uley
I haven't found the girls anywhere yet.
That's all I have. It is quite likely William & Elizabeth could have been deceased by 1851.
I can see James in Staunton in 1851, but who are the "they" you are referring to here?
They were living in Staunton in 1851
1841 Census at Stroud shows William aged 60, a labourer & Elizabeth 55. He was a labourer
OK, I've found them living in Painswick in 1841, so going to check there in 1851 first!
Yes that's the one, but what happened after that I don't know
Ignore the fact that "they" were in Staunton in 1851. I have no proof. But I understand that Stroud, Uley, Painswick & Staunton are all fairly together??
I've kept my search to Stroud District only now as Painswick is really close to the centre of that area. All the Elizabeths I've found within 10 years of the right age all have the wrong husband. None of the Williams are old enough. I've tried Soundex on the surname and *ven as well (because H and St sometimes her transcribed as each other). Still nothing.
Given their age in 1841, I guess they died within that next 10 years.
Painswick and Uley are close to Stroud (five miles or less). Staunton is about 20 miles away.
Did you mean Taunton or Staunton in your first post?
Though there are three Wm Heaven deaths in Stroud district between 1841 and 1851, there are no Elizabeths!
Staunton
The 1851 Census I have for the son James, is sooo bad I can't see where he was living, but my notes say Staunton nr Ledbury, does that help?
She might be on her own in the 1851 Census.
Do you have those 3 details of the Williams who died? I don't suppose there were wills around then, or that death certificates had much information on them were I to buy them?
Staunton
The 1851 Census I have for the son James, is sooo bad I can't see where he was living, but my notes say Staunton nr Ledbury, does that help?
Yes, that's where he is, but I didn't know if I was supposed to still be checking in Taunton (your initial post) as that's miles away in the next county.
Here are the three death registrations:
Deaths Jun 1845
HEAVEN William Stroud 11 322
Deaths Mar 1850
HEAVEN William Stroud 11 355
HEAVEN William Stroud 11 359
Thanks Merry. I didn't realise there were even two towns so similar, let alone where they were. I had looked up Uley, Newent, Painswick and a few others, but not Taunton.
Is it worth purchasing death certificate - would there be much info on it?
Just checked Gloucestershire BMD
HEAVEN William 4m 1845 Stroud, Rodborough 2 333
HEAVEN William 74 1850 Stroud, Painswick 3 210
HEAVEN William 80 1850 Stroud, Minchinhampton 3 223
So the 1845 entry is a baby. I guess the 74 year-old is best fit (he was probably rounded down in 1841) and in the same place as in 1841.
Going to look on there for Elizabeth.
Yes, the 74yo looks promising
We need to work out who this death reg is for (from Gloucestershire MD again):
HEAVEN Elizabeth 78 1859 Stroud, Painswick 5 77
its only 5 years out, and as you say, they would have rounded the 55 off in 1841 - don't you think?
I'm not having any luck finding that Elizabeth in 1851 to eliminate her, or not.
I did wonder if your Elizabeth was living with a married daughter and listed with the wrong surname, but all I've found so far is a likely match for Margaret:
Margaret E Heaven b Uley 1827 a servant at The Hill, Worcestershire. I'm imagining finding Ann isn't going to be so easy! lol
The age is right, so it must be her.
Unfortunately I dont know who (or if) the girls married or not. But if I thought the death certificate would give me more info - I'd go for it.
There's a tree on Ancestry with Ann, James and Margaret E (plus several other children) where the parents are recorded as William and Elizabeth Heaven (Eliz nee Hall), but the parents are shown as considerably younger than the people you are looking for (they have Wm 1799-1892).
Obviously their tree doesn't have to be right, but I wondered if you had seen it? They have a picture of James and have him marrying Ann Elizabeth Cook in 1851.
No, I havent seen it, I don't have ancestry - I could look in Mundia though.
It would take some delving to see how they put their info together. The census pages they have attached to their tree don't always have the right people on them and as well as Margaret E they have a younger Margaret too, but we think we know the older Margaret was still alive in 1851 making the chances of another Margaret in the family unlikely (but not impossible!!)
How do you know the William and Elizabeth you saw in 1841 are the right couple?
Hmmmmm, although they seem to have the children that you have on their tree and the names of the parents are William and Elizabeth, every record they have attached to their William, including a death aged 92, are all for someone called James Heaven! So, either something seriously amiss with their tree or something seriously amiss with the tree owner!
So, I still need to know if you are sure the 1841 couple are the right people or just a couple with the right names!! I would imagine it's likely the 1850 and 1859 death registrations are for that couple, but are they definitely your ancestors?
I'm a bit bothered that Margaret E Heaven (1826/27) isn't easy to find in 1841. She could be with her parents.
Hmmm, there's a Margaret Keaven that may well be her (could easily be an H), Female Servant born in County in Clifton, Gloucestershire.
Is Clifton near all the other places we mentioned? I thought it was usual for girls as young as 13 to go out to work.
Is Clifton near all the other places we mentioned? I thought it was usual for girls as young as 13 to go out to work.
Clifton is 25 miles from Stroud. These days it's part of Bristol.
I was hoping that she was mistranscribed AND with her parents, but as usual it was not to be!! (Think we need an 1831 census for this family!)
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