French research

[Kit]

I found one of OH's rellies on the 1871 census and it turns out she is now married and has a daughter born in France.

A bit more digging shows Kate Shrubb married François Séraphin Bourdoncle on 12 June 1870 in France. (from french ancestry records) Francois was born in 1811 to Guillaume and Franccoise Couderc. (from Genealogical Society of Rouergue transcription with an image)

The census also shows a daughter Laura. It says the age is 6 although I wonder if it is meant to be 6 months.

I'd like to find out what happened to the family, confirm Laura's age and see if there are more children but there is no more on ancestry unless it is mistranscribed, familysearch don't have much and I am limited by not remembering much highschool french.

Does anyone know where I can look for more information?

[kiterunner]

Most French departements do have BMD's online but you would need to know which departement you wanted to look at. Is Rouergue a place? If so then what departement is it in?

[kiterunner]

The image of the marriage record on ancestry has a date of 12 Juin 1870 for the publication and another date M 4 Juillet 1870 at the bottom, which I would think is the actual marriage date.
marriage on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1353/31067_03B046-00120/141828?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dARFIDObanns%26db%3d%26so%3d2% 26rank%3d0%26gsfn%3dfran*%26gsln%3dbourdoncle%26sx %3d%26gs1co%3d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1%25 2c%2b%26year%3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d1%26sbor%3d%2 6ufr%3d0%26wp%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26sr chb%3dr%26prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3 dangs-b&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
record 2 (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1353/31067_03S014-00190/2059686?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dARFIDObanns%252c%26rank%3d0%2 6gsfn%3dfran*%26gsln%3dbourdoncle%26sx%3d%26gs1co% 3d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1%252c%2b%26year %3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d1%26sbor%3d%26ufr%3d0%26w p%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26srchb%3dr%26pr ox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-d%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d10%26fsk%3dCIA ABUkAIzdL&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

It is a Paris record with arrondissement shown as 4th and 1st, with the M date having 4th in brackets, so I think that means that one of them was living in the 4th arrondissement and the other in the 1st and that their actual wedding took place in the 4th.

[kiterunner]

Here is Laura's marriage, also from ancestry:
marriage on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1353/31067_06B086-00252/468438?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dARFIDObanns%26db%3d%26so%3d2% 26rank%3d0%26gsfn%3dlaur*%26gsln%3dbo*rd*ncle%26sx %3d%26gs1co%3d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1%25 2c%2b%26year%3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d1%26sbor%3d%2 6ufr%3d0%26wp%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26sr chb%3dr%26prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3 dangs-b&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

The surname looks more like Bourdoucle on this record. Laura Marie Helene Bourdoncle, daughter of Francois Seraphin and Kate Schrubb, married Marie Louis George Colomb, publication of banns 25 Mar 1894, Paris.

[kiterunner]

This is the Paris BMD site:
http://canadp-archivesenligne.paris.fr/

[kiterunner]

So, you can get the marriage record for Francois Bourdoncle and Kate Shrubb on the Paris site as we know where and when it took place (otherwise we would have to find it in their index first)

This link will take you to the right section but then you need to browse through to get to image no 4:


marriage record (http://canadp-archivesenligne.paris.fr/archives_etat_civil/1860_1902_actes/aec_visu_img.php?registre=V4E_00473&type=AEC&&bdd_en_cours=actes_ec_1860_1870&vue_tranche_debut=AD075EC_V4E_00473_0004&vue_tranche_fin=AD075EC_V4E_00473_0034&ref_histo=18262&cote=V4E 473)

[Shona]

From Wikipedia:

At the 1999 census there were 269,774 inhabitants in the province of Rouergue. The largest urban areas are Rodez, Millau, Decazeville and Villefranche-de-Rouergue.

[kiterunner]

Found the index entry for Laura's marriage in the 17th arrondissement, date of marriage 11th May 1894.

So this is the link to her marriage record, and you will need image no 7:
Laura's marriage (http://canadp-archivesenligne.paris.fr/archives_etat_civil/1860_1902_actes/aec_visu_img.php?registre=V4E_10124&type=AEC&&bdd_en_cours=actes_ec_1893_1902&vue_tranche_debut=AD075EC_V4E_10124_0061&vue_tranche_fin=AD075EC_V4E_10124_0091&ref_histo=10192&cote=V4E 10124)

I think it says that she was born 26 Jun 1864 at St Maur, Seine.

[kiterunner]

Thanks, Shona. I don't think Francois lived in Rouergue when he was with Kate, though.

[Kit]

Wow, you have done a lot. Thank you. I'm going to go back slowly and have a good look.

[kiterunner]

I can't find Laura's birth listed under Bourdoncle, Schrubb or Shrubb at Saint Maur des Fosses, Val de Marne, which I thought would be the Saint Maur referred to.
http://archives.cg94.fr/consultation/eta/search-form.html

I looked at the "Table des naissances" for 1860-1872.

Oh, but there is a birth for a Laura Marie Helene Sauve born 26 Jun 1864 and registered 28 Jun. It has a note of her death too, 18 Nov 1952 in Paris. (I wish British birth registrations had the same!!!) I will have a go at translating the entry after dishing up lunch, unless one of our French experts does it first! Not sure if this link will take you directly to it or if you will need to put in the image number, 124:
http://archives.cg94.fr/consultation/eta/img-viewer/etat-civil/94068/1NUM68_000008_01/viewer.html

[kiterunner]

On the 28th June 1864 at 10 a.m. the registration of the birth of Laura Marie Helene Sauve, female, born 26th June at 1 a.m at the home of Mrs Marie Francoise Claire Martin, wife of Robert, age 42 years, midwife, living at No 92 Rue de Champigny, daughter of unnamed father and mother, the child present and the declaration made by the above-named Robert lady and in the presence of Alexandre Charlemagne Guisin(? not sure about first letter) aged 60 years, employee, living at No 8 Rue de l'Abbaye, and Pierre Rome, aged 48(?) years, employee, living at No 40 Rue de la Varenne, these people also signing the declaration with us State Mairie Officer present...

Then the bit in the bottom left-hand corner, I can't enlarge it as much as I would like but it says
Sauve registered at Charenton 3 Oct 1880 - can't make out the next 3 lines at the moment, then below the death bit is:

Laura Marie Helene Sauve, named in the ??? legitimised by the marriage of Francois Seraphin Bourdoncle with Kate Shrubb, and I think the rest of it is the date and place of their marriage which we already have.

Then sideways on, it says Died at Paris, 14th arrondissement, 31 Oct 1952, [registered] Saint Maur 18 Nov 1952.

[Kit]

I think it says that she was born 26 Jun 1864 at St Maur, Seine.

I think that is what it says too. lol

Thank you for that Kate. I didn't know about that website.

Interesting that Laura was born well before the marriage. I suspect Francois was married before Kate. I wonder if that affected when they got married.

[kiterunner]

Have you read posts 11 and 12, Kit?

[Kit]

No Kate I didn't see them, I didn't refresh the page between my comments. I was trying to look for what you found. I'm about to go to bed but will look at the images tomorrow but what you found is wonderful. Thank you so much, I appreciate it.

[Kit]

Just had a good look now Kate. Thank you for finding this, it is very interesting. Like you I wish I could enlarge the page and make the writing a bit darker. I also wish my french was better as I'm trying to pick out words I recognise.

I wonder why Laura was registered under a different name. I would have thought they would have used Shrubb.

I couldn't work out what area to search under so I had to start at one. How did you work it out?

[kiterunner]

What do you mean by "area", Toni?

[tenterfieldjulie]

I think Kit means arrondissement Kate .. (if that's how it's spelt) .. Julie

[kiterunner]

Oh, for the arrondissements of Paris, the marriage banns records on ancestry state which arrondissement(s) they were called in, so I went through those and tried the different numbers shown.

[Kit]

Julie is right and I wasn't sure of the spelling either. lol

I didn't see it on ancestry sadly.