Who Do You Think You Are - Gary Lineker 21st Aug

[kiterunner]

BBC1 at 9 p.m. and repeated on Thursday 22nd at 10:35 p.m.

[Guinevere]

Hmm. Interesting name to get hold of.

[Shona]

Which side will Gary tackle?

[Merry]

Which side will Gary tackle?

lol Shona!! :d

[kiterunner]

What I remember of his playing days, he would hang around near the goalmouth waiting for a team-mate to pass the ball to him, rather than doing any tackling.

[Shona]

What I remember of his playing days, he would hang around near the goalmouth waiting for a team-mate to pass the ball to him, rather than doing any tackling.

Perhaps he will settle some old scores.

[Merry]

Hmmm.....I hope it's not going to be another episode of applying modern day thinking to historic events and discovering the personality of an ancestor via historic records. (having just read the Mirror article about today's episode.)

Let's hope I'm wrong.

[Shona]

Hmmm.....I hope it's not going to be another episode of applying modern day thinking to historic events and discovering the personality of an ancestor via historic records. (having just read the Mirror article about today's episode.)

Let's hope I'm wrong.

I hope Gary doesn't conclude that he felt drawn to stealing crisps in the Walker's adverts because it was in his genes!

[Margaret in Burton]

Well apparently he has stocking makers aka framework knitters (FWK's) from Hinckley. So does OH.

[Margaret in Burton]

i hope gary doesn't conclude that he felt drawn to stealing crisps in the walker's adverts because it was in his genes!

:d:d:d:d

[Margaret in Burton]

Well I really enjoyed that. I will investigate whether OH's ancestors lived in the same streets as James Pratt. They certainly had the same occupation.

[ElizabethHerts]

I found this interesting and was pleased when Gary started to take it more seriously as I had been shouting at him.

After she was widowed, OH's great-grandmother, Emily Newton, was a matron at Christ's Hospital. She is living there on the 1901 and 1911 censuses.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=uki1901&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=Emily&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=Newton&msbdy=1850&uidh=xt1&msbdp=5&pcat=1901UKI&fh=15&h=15871792&recoff=

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1911England&h=51569161&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=7814

I was very interested to hear there was an archives at the school. I tried contacting them once for details of her time there but I got no reply. I shall have to try again.

[kiterunner]

Episode synopsis:

Gary Lineker lives in East London now, but he was born in Leicester in 1960, the eldest son of market stall trader. His younger brother's name is Wayne. Gary's grandparents were William Harold Lineker, known as Harold, and Alice Kate Hoare. Harold's father George Albert Lineker started the market trader business called G A Lineker and Sons.

Gary met genealogist Anthony Adolph, who had drawn up his family tree including some more Linekers William Henry Lineker and Samuel Lineker. He had also traced Alice Hoare's line. Her father was Frederick Hoare. His mother was Kate Billingham. Her father was James Billingham and his father was Thomas Billingham jr, a law writer, born in Beckenham, Kent, in 1789, and who died in Sep 1849 at St Mary Newington, Surrey / London.

Gary's 4xg-grandfather was James Pratt born in Hinckley, Leicestershire. The Criminal Register showed that he was tried for larceny in 1848 and sentenced to 6 months in prison.


Gary went to Leicester to find out more about James Pratt. He went to Leicestershire Record Office to look at the court records for 1848, which showed that James Pratt of Hinckley, labourer, pled guilty to stealing "six live tame fowls called hens". A report in the Leicestershire Mercury said that James Pratt was a framework knitter. Gary visited Leicester Prison where James served his sentence. He met a professor of criminology who showed him James's criminal record from 1868 which listed previous offences including 1846 - malicious trespass, 1848 - stealing six hens, 1857 and 1860 - night poaching. In 1868 he was again convicted of night poaching. The record showed that James's only education was Sunday school, and that he made his mark rather than sign his name. The Leicester Journal from 1871 showed James once again convicted of poaching rabbits.

Gary visited Hinckley and met the criminologist again at St Mary's Church, where James Pratt married Maria Leeson on the 24th Dec 1843. The couple were aged 24 and 22 respectively, and were both stocking makers. Gary was shown a notice of a meeting held in Hinckley in 1842 to discuss the economic problems of stocking makers caused by the economic depression of the time. Gary was also shown birth and death certificates for James and Maria's first two children, Ann born Jan 1844 and died in 1845 of consumption, and Elizabeth who died in 1849 of croup. There were 8 more children who survived to adulthood, including Alice, the grandmother of Gary's grandmother Alice. James Pratt died in 1901 age 83 and was buried in Hinckley.



Gary then looked at the 1841 census entry for Thomas Billingham, age 50, his wife Sarah, 40, and their six children. Thomas's occupation was shown as stationer.

Gary visited Stationers' Hall in London, the home of the Worshipful Company of Stationers. He was shown Thomas Billingham's apprenticeship indentures, which stated that Thomas, the son of Thomas Billingham sr, a gardener of Beckenham, Kent, was apprenticed in 1804 at the age of 14 to William Witherby, a legal stationer. The apprenticeship was paid for by Christ's Hospital School.

Gary visited the Guildhall Archives to see the records of Christ's Hospital, and saw Thomas Billingham's school application from 1798 when he was 8 years old. Thomas sr had stated that he was married with two children but did not have much income. The school was paid by Thomas sr's employer, Edward King, lawyer and author. The school records showed that Thomas jr ws found to have "an opacity in one eye".

Gary visited Christ's Hospital in its current location at Horsham, West Sussex. He met their museum curator who showed him Edward King's obituary from the Gentleman's Magazine of 1807, which stated that Edward had no children of his own. An extract from Edward King's cash book showed that he sent money to Tom Billingham at school.

Gary went to see the Witherby company's new factory in Tottenham and was shown a document written out by Thomas Billingham.

[kiterunner]

Here is some unseen footage:
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/footage/14497

I was hoping for some stuff about framework knitters, maybe the museum in Ruddington. I did feel that they were struggling to find enough relevant information to fill the episode and that it was padded out somewhat.

[anne fraser]

I agree about the padding all the filming in the match of the day make up department did not add much. I did not really like the format of showing him his family tree straight away. I can only conclude his recent ancestors were fairly dull.

[JBee]

Is it me but I get annoyed when I see them handling the documents roughly, without book rests or white gloves on? Did I see Gary lick his fingers when looking through the court records?

I went to one archives and got into trouble for not using a book rest - it was my first visit and I didn't know what to do.

[Shona]

Is it me but I get annoyed when I see them handling the documents roughly, without book rests or white gloves on? Did I see Gary lick his fingers when looking through the court records?

I went to one archives and got into trouble for not using a book rest - it was my first visit and I didn't know what to do.

Even my OH recoiled with horror when Gaz licked his fingers to leaf through the court records.

Gaz may never have been given a red card in his footie career, but he should have been given one for that.

[Olde Crone]

I really did not enjoy this episode of "Much Ado About Nothing". I found his childish giggling extremely irritating and the whole programme lacked any interest for me. As Anne says, it had the air of a struggle to find anything remotely interesting or remarkable.

OC

[Shona]

Here is some unseen footage:
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/footage/14497


That unseen footage should have remained unseen. Totally pointless.

[Shona]

This is more like it. Enjoyed reading this account from Leicester Uni about the hardships faced by Hinkley's framework knitters.

http://www.le.ac.uk/lahs/downloads/HinckleyPagesfromvolumeLIV-6.pdf

Some more about framework knitters.

http://www.leicestershirevillages.com/barrowuponsoar/socialconsequences.html

[Shona]

James Pratt and family in the census records.

In 1851, there is an 11-year-old son named William. Born before the marriage.

James Pratt's wife Maria died between 1871 and 1881. He remarried and his second wife was named Sarah.

1851
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/LEIHO107_2082_2082-0520/9605188?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1851%26rank%3d 1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3djames%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dpratt%26gs ln_x%3dNN%26gskw%3dleicestershire%26gskw_x%3d1%26c pxt%3d1%26uidh%3dfpy%26cp%3d11%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d 4%26h%3d9605188%26recoff%3d6%2b7&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

James Pratt, head, 31, stockinger (cotton), b Dadlington
Maria, wife, 29, wife, stockinger (cotton), b Hinkley
William, son, 11 (?), stockinger (cotton), b Hinkley
Michael, son, 3, b Hinkley
Maria, dau, 11 mo, b Hinkley

1861
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/LEIRG9_2259_2262-0465/21515979?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1861%26rank%3d 1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3djames%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dpratt%26gs ln_x%3dNN%26gskw%3dleicestershire%26gskw_x%3d1%26c pxt%3d1%26uidh%3dfpy%26cp%3d11%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d 5%26h%3d21515979%26recoff%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

James Pratt, head, 41, stocking maker, b Dadlington
Maria, wife, 40, stocking maker, b Hinkley
Michael, son, 13, shoemaker, b Hinkley
Maria, dau, 11, seamer, b Hinkley
Joseph, son, 9, nurse, b Hinkley
Alice, dau, 7, seamer, b Hinkley
Sarah Ann, dau, 5, seamer, b Hinkley
Arthur, 1, b Hinkley

1871
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/LEIRG10_3236_3239-0052/24341955?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1871%26rank%3d 1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3djames%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dpratt%26gs ln_x%3dNN%26gskw%3dleicestershire%26gskw_x%3d1%26c pxt%3d1%26uidh%3dfpy%26cp%3d11%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d 4%26h%3d24341955%26recoff%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

James Pratt, head, 52, cotton stocking maker, b Hinkley
Maria, wife, 50, cotton stocking maker, b Hinkley
Michael, son, 23, shoemaker, b Hinkley
Joseph, son, 18, cotton stocking maker, b Hinkey
Alice, dau, 17, cotton stocking maker, b Hinkey
Sarah Ann, dau, 14, cotton stocking maker, b Hinkey
Arthur, son, 11, scholar, b Hinkley
John, son, 8, scholar, b Hinkley

1881
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/LEIRG11_3131_3134-0117/12209854?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1881%26rank%3d 1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3djames%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dpratt%26gs ln_x%3dNN%26gskw%3dleicestershire%26gskw_x%3d1%26c pxt%3d1%26uidh%3dfpy%26cp%3d11%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d 2%26h%3d12209854%26recoff%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

James Pratt, head, 65, stocking maker, b Hinkley
Sarah, wife, 50, charwoman, b Hinkley
John, son, 19, stocking trimmer, b Hinkley

1891
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/6598/LEIRG12_2503_2506-0141/23954090?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1891%26rank%3d 1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3djames%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dpratt%26gs ln_x%3dNN%26gskw%3dleicestershire%26gskw_x%3d1%26c pxt%3d1%26uidh%3dfpy%26cp%3d11%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d 2%26h%3d23954090%26recoff%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

James Pratt, head, 75, factory hand (hos), b Dadlington
Sarah, wife, 55, factory hand (hos), b Hinkley
Maria Wain, dau, 41, married, factory hand (hos), b Hinkley

1901
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7814/LEIRG13_2962_2964-0163/17219980?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3duki1901%26rank%3d 1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3djames%26gsfn_x%3dNN%26gsln%3dpratt%26gs ln_x%3dNN%26gskw%3dleicestershire%26gskw_x%3d1%26c pxt%3d1%26uidh%3dfpy%26cp%3d11%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d 0%26h%3d17219980%26recoff%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

Arthur Pratt, head, 41, hosiery trimmer, b Hinkley
Ellen, wife, 38, b Hinkley
William, son, 17, hosiery trimmer, b Hinkley
Lizzie, dau, 15, hosiery machinist,
James Pratt, 83, father, widower, retired hosiery hand, b Dadlington

[Nell]

I think I know too much about family history to be very excited about this series of "Who Do You Think You Are?" but it was a good opportunity for people to understand that nearly all of us have law-abiders and law-breakers in our families and that much of the way they lived was dictated by circumstances.

I speak as someone who just discovered a distant gt gt gt uncle, Robert, who was once fined for "malicious wounding" of a dog. I told my Mum and she said "Well, he kept a butcher's shop, didn't he? He probably kicked it for coming into the shop!" On the other side of the equation, Robert's brother Samuel was an Inspector of Police.

[kiterunner]

Son Joseph's occupation in 1861 - "nurse". Do you think that means he was minding the baby while the rest of the family were making stockings?

[Shona]

Son Joseph's occupation in 1861 - "nurse". Do you think that means he was minding the baby while the rest of the family were making stockings?

Or it was an error. Perhaps Joseph was working and Alice was looking after the two younger children.

Looking at the census records in Hinkley, there was a lot of child labour among the stocking makers. Another interesting fact left out of the edit.

[kiterunner]

From the Leicestershire Mercury, Sat 20 Nov 1852

Hinckley
BURBAGE - The framework-knitters of this village held a meeting on Tuesday evening, to take into consideration the present low rate of wages, and the necessity of soliciting the manufacturers for a small advance. James Pratt, of Hinckley, addressed the meeting at a considerable length, forcibly pointing out the various opportunities that present themselves at the present time for effecting this object, and which ought not to be neglected. At the close of the meeting the following resolution was carried - "That the employers be respectfully solicited to give back the last reduction on the wide-work, and 3d per dozen on the wrought-hose; and that in case they are unwilling to comply with this request, we cease to labour on Monday next, until the state of the market will enable them to acquiesce therein. It is hoped the manufacturers will at once comply with this reasonable request, as there can be no doubt but the present state of the markets will admit of an advance."

Edit - this may have been a different James Pratt though, as there is an older one on the censuses. Perhaps a relative?

[Shona]

What a gem of a find! I hope it's the same James Pratt.

So apart from not examining the plight of framework knitters (apart from showing us the poster), the programme makers missed a trick in not touching upon the Luddites and frame-wrecking.

[kiterunner]

I've had a look on iPlayer and managed to extract most of the names from the tree that Anthony Adolph drew up. I couldn't make out most of the dates so I haven't put those in, but it explains where the Pratts and the Billinghams fit in, and gives you the names of all those ancestors who weren't mentioned!

Gary's great-grandparents (Harold's parents) were George Albert Lineker and Emily Holmes, the daughter of George Holmes and Harriet Caulton. George's parents were William Henry Lineker jr and Lavinia Hatfield, the daughter of James Hatfield and Caroline Morris. James Hatfield was the son of Robert Hatfield and Margaret. Caroline Morris was the daughter of Joseph Morris. William Henry Lineker jr was the son of William Henry Lineker sr and Charlotte Taylor, the daughter of George Taylor and Elizabeth. William Henry Lineker sr was the son of Samuel Lineker.

Another set of great-grandparents, the parents of Gary's grandmother Alice Kate Hoare, were Frederick Charles Hoare and Sarah Elizabeth Thorne. Frederick Charles Hoare was the son of John Francis Hoare and Kate Rose Billingham. John Francis Hoare was the son of John Hoare and Mary. Kate Rose Billingham was the daughter of James Thomas Billingham and Catherine Rose. James Thomas Billingham was the son of Thomas Billingham and Sarah Vuller.

Sarah Elizabeth Thorne was the daughter of John Thorne and Alice Pratt. John Thorne was the son of John Thorne and Elizabeth Newcombe, the daughter of Thomas Newcomb. John Thorne was the son of John Thorn. Alice Pratt was the daughter of James Pratt and Maria Leeson. James Pratt was the son of Joseph Pratt and Elizabeth. Maria Leeson was the daughter of William Leeson and Elizabeth.

[Ann from Sussex]

Which is the more annoying in WDYTYA subjects do you think - tears or levity? I wanted to throw something at Gary Lineker every time he made an inane comment and grinned but, in the event, I think my annoyance with him was the only thing keeping me awake through this boring episode. They seemed to make an awful lot of nothing very much and I was really struggling to keep my eyes open towards the end. The only thing of any real interest to me was the fact that Lineker seems to have been a Nottingham name, judging by the brief glimpse I got of details on Anthony Adolphe's tree. My OH came from a long line of Nottingham framework knitters so I would have enjoyed the programme more if they had followed the Lineker line.

[kiterunner]

The only thing of any real interest to me was the fact that Lineker seems to have been a Nottingham name, judging by the brief glimpse I got of details on Anthony Adolphe's tree. My OH came from a long line of Nottingham framework knitters so I would have enjoyed the programme more if they had followed the Lineker line.

They said that Samuel Lineker was a cordwainer, so I think this is his family in 1841:
Sheep Lane, St Mary, Nottingham
Samuel Lineker 70 Shoem Y
Betsey Do 55(?) Y
Ann Do 20 Y
Susan Do 15 Y
William Do 14 Y
Sarah Do 12 Y.

1841 census on ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/NTTHO107_870_871-0284/9297837?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1841%26db%3d%26so%3d2%26ra nk%3d0%26gsfn%3dsam*%26gsln%3dli*n*r%26sx%3d%26gs1 co%3d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1%252c%2b%26y ear%3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d0%26sbor%3d%26ufr%3d0% 26wp%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26srchb%3dr%2 6prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-c&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

[Piwacket]

My ears had pricked up when I heard he had Pratt in his ancestry. My sister's OH is a Pratt (no comment!) and besotted with footers... so I'd texted her for them to watch it - neither is remotely interested in Family Research.

She texted back tonight to say they had watched it - and b-i-l is a descendant and recognised the story of the James Pratt family that he'd learned some years ago. So of course he's over the moon that he's remotely related to Gary Lineker - one of his heros :d

If it's OK with you Shona - I'll pass your Pratt tree to them :)

I was actually aggravated by his giggling, almost flippant attitude at times - on the other hand he came across as a very nice, down to earth chap.... but oh! that sketch of James Pratt :d Boris Karloff had nothing on him!

[Shona]

Fine by me to pass on the Pratt details.

[marquette]

I found this interesting and was pleased when Gary started to take it more seriously as I had been shouting at him.

After she was widowed, OH's great-grandmother, Emily Newton, was a matron at Christ's Hospital. She is living there on the 1901 and 1911 censuses.

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=uki1901&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=Emily&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=Newton&msbdy=1850&uidh=xt1&msbdp=5&pcat=1901UKI&fh=15&h=15871792&recoff=

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1911England&h=51569161&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=7814

I was very interested to hear there was an archives at the school. I tried contacting them once for details of her time there but I got no reply. I shall have to try again.

I would be interested if you have any luck - some of my ggg uncles attended Christs Hospital as students.

[ElizabethHerts]

Marquette, I'll let you know if I get a reply.

[Shona]

Pupil records (unless more recent) are held at the London Metropolitan Archive.

http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/visiting-the-city/archives-and-city-history/london-metropolitan-archives/Documents/visitor-information/29-records-of-christs-hospital-and-bluecoat-schools.pdf

[Piwacket]

Fine by me to pass on the Pratt details.

Thanks Shona :)

[Merry]

I just got round to watching this on iPlayer.

I thought it was OK. Could have done with less Gary (didn't mind some of his quips, but there were way too many!) and less seeing him in the TV studio etc and more on the framework knitters.

Plus, I would have liked three minutes on what sort of lifestyle Thomas Billingham may have had as a successful law writer compared with his likely lifestyle had remained a gardener's son in Kent.

I can't face Nick Hewer as well this evening, so will leave his programme for another day!!