John Jones

[Zoemcdougall]

Looking for other Jones in Wales!

John born in 1871, Llanwnog, brother of my Great grandmother, I have him on 1871 1881 censuses but can't find him in 1891 1901 1911, He is not listed on his father's obituary in 1914,

I can't find a death cert for him as I don't know where he was living when he died. Or a marriage record.

In 1881 he was residing at Bronhaul ref 5483 folio 49 pg 2.

[kiterunner]

So that we have all the available information to hand, in 1881 he is John Jones, age 10, scholar, born Llanwnog Montgomeryshire, parents William Jones, stone mason, and Elizabeth. And on the 1871 census he is 3 months old.

[kiterunner]

The age is a bit out but possible? 1891 census
13 Lower Row, Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan
Thomas Jones Head M 25 Colly Haulier Montgomy Llanwnog Both
Catherine Do Wife M 30 Do Darawen(?)
Edward Do Son 2 Glam Llwynpen(?)
Mary J Do Daur 1 Do Cwmdare
John Jones Lodger M 22 Colly Laborer Montgomy Llanwnog Both

Probably not him but will post this to save others looking up the same entry.

[Shona]

This might be him in 1891.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/6897/MGYRG12_4590_4593-0158/595228?backurl=http%253a%252f%252fsearch.ancestry. co.uk%252fcgi-bin%252fsse.dll%253fdb%253duki1891wales%2526so%253 d2%2526pcat%253dROOT_CATEGORY%2526rank%253d1%2526n ew%253d1%2526MSAV%253d1%2526msT%253d1%2526gss%253d angs-g%2526gsfn%253dJohn%2526gsfn_x%253dNN%2526gsln%253 dJones%2526gsln_x%253dNN%2526msbdy%253d1871%2526ms bdy_x%253d1%2526gskw%253dLlanwnog%2526gskw_x%253d1 %2526cpxt%253d1%2526catBucket%253drstp%2526uidh%25 3dfpy%2526msbdp%253d1%2526cp%253d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults


Llanwnog

John Jones, 20, ag lab, b Trefeglwys

A servant for farmer Thomas Jones, 40, and his brother, Evans Jones, 35.

[Shona]

A possible for 1911.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2353/rg14_33785_0139_06/999892?backurl=http%253a%252f%252fsearch.ancestry. co.uk%252fcgi-bin%252fsse.dll%253fdb%253d1911wales%2526so%253d2% 2526pcat%253dROOT_CATEGORY%2526rank%253d1%2526new% 253d1%2526MSAV%253d1%2526msT%253d1%2526gss%253dang s-g%2526gsfn%253dJohn%2526gsfn_x%253dNN%2526gsln%253 dJones%2526gsln_x%253dNN%2526msbdy%253d1871%2526ms bdy_x%253d1%2526gskw%253dLlanwnog%2526gskw_x%253d1 %2526cpxt%253d1%2526catBucket%253drstp%2526uidh%25 3dfpy%2526msbdp%253d1%2526cp%253d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults


Green Lane, Llanllwchaiarn

John Jones, head, 40, farmer, b Llanwnog
Mary Anne Jones, wife, 40, b Llanllwchaiarn

Married three years; no children.

[kiterunner]

Still looking at the 1891 census, there is a John Jones single, 21, coal miner, born Montgomery, speaking both languages, lodger at 71 Mardy Rd, Ystradfodwg, Glamorgan, and another John Jones single 21 collier / coal miner born Montgomeryshire, speaking Welsh, boarder at 20 Windsor Place, Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorgan.

Then the age is right on this one, and the occupation looks promising:
Heath, Tregynon, Montgomeryshire
John Hughes Head M 47 Farmer Montgomeryshire Llanwnog Both
Mary Do Wife M 44 Do Wife Do Tregynon
Mary Do Daur S 31 Do Daur Do Do
Margeret Do Daur S 24 Do Do Do Do
Elizabeth Do Daur S 18(?) Do Do Do Do
John Jones Lodger S 20 Stone Mason Do Llanwnog English.

This looks the most likely so far!

[kiterunner]

And possible in 1901, sorry I have to go out shopping so will just post the link for now (it is the Bro in law age 30):
ancestry 1901 (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7815/MGYRG13_5194_5198-0292/32945648?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d0%26gsfn%3djohn%26gsln%3djo nes%26sx%3d%26f1%3d%26f2%3d%26f4%3d%26f18%3d%26f12 __n%3d%26rg_81004011__date%3d1871%26rs_81004011__d ate%3d2%26f27%3d%26f14%3dmon*%26f15%3d%26_8000C002 %3d%26_80008002%3d%26_80018002%3d%26f7%3d%26f8%3d% 26f9%3d%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1%26db%3duki1901wales%2 6ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-d%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d60%26fsk%3dCIA AHocADktT&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

[Zoemcdougall]

Thankyou for you replies. Llanllwchaiarn is where John's sister Mary has named on her marriage cert?

So do we think that John did get married. and possibly had the same occupation of his father. Year of death anywhere from 1901/ 1914 when his father died. as all his siblings are mentioned on his father's obituary bar him.

[kiterunner]

So this is the transcription of that 1901 entry:
Little Gweathsew(?), Kerry, Montgomeryshire
Matthew Pryce Head S 22 Farmer Montgomeryshire Churchstoke
Maurice Pryce Brother S 15 Cowman on Farm Do Do
John Jones Bro in Law M 30 Stone Mason Do Llanwnog Both
Elizabeth Jones Sister M 26 Do Churchstoke
Elizabeth Ann Jones Niece 5 Do Kerry
Mary Martha Jones Niece 3 Do Do
Edith Jane Jones Niece 1 Do Do
John Jones Nephew 7 months Do do

[kiterunner]

There is a widowed Elizabeth Jones age 38 born Churchstoke with a Price family in Kerry, Montgomeryshire, in 1911 who may well be the widow of that John Jones, stone mason, who I have been looking at. She doesn't have any children with her though:
1911 census ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2353/rg14_33777_0043_06/957648?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d0%26gsfn%3deli*%26gsln%3djo nes%26sx%3d%26f2%3d%26f3%3d%26f8%3d%26rg_81004011_ _date%3d1876%26rs_81004011__date%3d5%26f18%3dchu*% 26f19%3dmon*%26f24%3d%26f21%3d%26f22%3d%26_8000C00 2%3d%26_80008002%3d%26_80018002%3d%26f16%3d%26f9%3 d%26f23%3d%26gskw%3d%26prox%3d1%26db%3d1911wales%2 6ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gl%3d%26gss%3drfs%26gst%3 d%26so%3d3&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

[kiterunner]

Possible marriage for John and Elizabeth, from FreeBMD:

Marriages Jun 1894
Brown Mary Jane Llanfyllin 11b 357
Jones John Llanfyllin 11b 357
Kilvert Joseph Llanfyllin 11b 357
Pryce Elizabeth Ann Llanfyllin 11b 357

[kiterunner]

Hmmm, that marriage cert is on Findmypast - 14 May 1894 at Penrhos, Montgomeryshire, and John is a bachelor, 21, occupation labourer, residence Llangollen, father William Jones, farmer, with Elizabeth a spinster, 22, domestic servant, residence Tybrith, father Thomas Pryce, joiner, witnesses William Henry Pryce and Mary Jane Pryce. I'm not certain this is the same couple who are on the 1901 census yet. There are a few possible John Jones / Elizabeth Price marriages on FreeBMD but not in Montgomeryshire.

[kiterunner]

Some possible deaths for John Jones between 1901 and 1911:
Jul-Sep 1903 Llanfyllin age 33, vol 11b p 132
Oct-Dec 1905 Newtown age 34, vol 11b p 116 (this was the reg district for Kerry)
Apr-Jun 1908 Newtown age 39, vol 11b p 119

[kiterunner]

Elizabeth Ann Jones birth registered Apr-Jun 1895 Newtown
Edith Jane Jones birth registered Jul-Sep 1898 Newtown
John Jones birth registered Jul-Sep 1900 Newtown (may or may not be the right entry as there are loads!)

So I wonder whether Edith Jane and Mary Martha have their ages the wrong way round on the 1901 census. I haven't managed to find Mary's birth reg yet.

[kiterunner]

Ah, some of the Jones children are still with their uncle Matthew Pryce in 1911:
Pengelly Mill Tarn Newtown Mont:
Mathew Pryce Head 31 Married Farmer Montgomery Churchstoke
Sarah Ann Pryce Wife 25 Married 5 years, 3 children, 3 living Montgomeryshire Kerry
Dorothy May Pryce Daughter 4 Montgomery Kerry
Martha Elizabeth Pryce Daughter 2 Montgomery Kerry
Charles Mathew Pryce Son 6 months Montgomery Kerry
Edith Jane Jones Niece 11 School Glamorgan Aber
John Jones Nephew 10 School Montgomery Kerry
Maria Jones Niece 9 Montgomery Kerry

[kiterunner]

This looks like Mathew and Elizabeth Pryce with their parents and siblings in 1881, and the father is David, an ag lab, which doesn't tally with the marriage in post #12, so maybe that is the wrong marriage.
1881 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8059/MGYRG11_5486_5491-0737/16243358?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1881wales%252c%26rank%3d0% 26gsfn%3dmat*%26gsln%3dpr%253fce%26sx%3d%26gs1co%3 d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1%252c%2b%26year% 3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d0%26sbor%3d%26ufr%3d0%26wp %3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26srchb%3dr%26pro x%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-d%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d30%26fsk%3dCIA AH3sAEUiV%26pgoff%3d3&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

In 1891 David Pryce and his family, including sons Matthew and Maurice, are at Pengelly Mill:
1891 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/6897/MGYRG12_4590_4593-0355/658875?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1891wales%252c%26rank%3d0% 26gsfn%3dmat*%26gsln%3dpr%253fce%26sx%3d%26gs1co%3 d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1%252c%2b%26year% 3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d0%26sbor%3d%26ufr%3d0%26wp %3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26srchb%3dr%26pro x%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-d%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d20%26fsk%3dCIA AGvEAExZT%26pgoff%3d2&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

So it seems we still need to find John Jones's marriage to Elizabeth Pryce, probably between 1891 and 1901.

[Zoemcdougall]

Thankyou Kate, So John married Elizabeth Pryce, & had 3 children, have I got that right?

Anne, Edith Jane, & John Jones. With the surname Jones totally confused!!!

[kiterunner]

Thankyou Kate, So John married Elizabeth Pryce, & had 3 children, have I got that right?

Anne, Edith Jane, & John Jones. With the surname Jones totally confused!!!

There are at least 5 children:
Elizabeth Ann, Mary Martha, Edith Jane, John, and Maria.

But we still don't know for sure that this is the right John Jones! His birthplace, occupation and age all fit but as John Jones is such a common name, we would ideally want to find something to confirm that it is the same John as your relative. The marriage cert in post #12 looks to be the wrong one, but if we could find the right one we could check whether the father's name and occupation were right, and maybe spot a familiar name as a witness.

[Zoemcdougall]

Thanks Kate, I wonder if looking at his siblings may help, Obviously I have info on 3 of his siblings, William Mary & Elizabeth, & know a little about his youngest brother Benjamin,
(he was known as Ben the Roley) after the place he was born, Married a someone by the name of Sarah, died in a place called Maesgwastad, Caersws, (probably spelt that wrong)
but haven't looked for the others in detail, Going by the obituary of his father William, not all of William's children lived in Newtown. It lists his children & where they were living at the time of William's death.

[Shona]

Could you list the children mentioned in the obit and where they were living, please

[Zoemcdougall]

William living in Sheffield
David living in Hengeod South Wales
Thomas living in LLanwnog
Richard living in Talgwm Brecon
Benjamin living in Roley LLanwnog
Elizabeth living in Leeds
Mary Jane living Pendryndeudraeth.
Samuel living in Newtown.

These are where they are living at the time of their father's obit. Also looking on the obit, some grandchildren & niece's & nephew of Deceased.

[kiterunner]

Do any of the grandchildren's names match the names in post #18, Zoe?

[Zoemcdougall]

Grandchildren list as Dorothy, May, Richard.

Nephew & nieces listed as Samuel, John, Richard Jones, & Thomas Davies.