Who Do You Think You Are - Minnie Driver 7th Aug

[kiterunner]

At 9 p.m. tonight on BBC1, and repeated tomorrow at 10:35 p.m.

[Ann from Sussex]

Oh bother, it looks, from the blurb for it in my paper, as though it's another WW2 one. I know that lots of people find it interesting but I prefer those that go further back so much more. I grew up on WW2 stories and in the war's aftermath so, to me, it isn't "history" really. I'll still be watching though.

[Margaret in Burton]

I really enjoyed that. She seemed very normal.

[kiterunner]

Episode synopsis:

Minnie Driver was born in London in 1970. Now 43, she lives in Los Angeles as a single mum with her 4 year old son Henry.

Minnie's father Charles Ronald Driver, known as Ronnie, died when Henry was 15 months old. Minnie's parents met in 1962 and were together for 13 years. They split up when Minnie was 6. Ronnie was married to another woman and had another family, but Minnie only found out that her parents weren't married to each other when she was 12. She never met Ronnie's parents.

Minnie had a book which tells the story of the Battle of Heligoland Bight in WW2, in which Ronnie took part during his service in the RAF. The book had a photo of Ronnie.

Minnie visited her mother Gaynor in West London. Gaynor told her that Ronnie received the Distinguised Flying Medal after the battle, but threw it in the Thames.


Charles Ronald Driver's birth certificate showed that he was born in Swansea in 1921. His father was Charles Edmund Driver and his mother was Mary Jessie Kelly, formerly McGregor.

Minnie visited Brooklands Museum in Surrey to see a restored Wellington bomber from the battle. She saw the book "Epics of the RAF" which also has a report of the battle. It said that Ronnie put out a fire on the plane with his gloved hand. His best friend, rear gunner Walter Lilley of Kippax, died in the battle, aged 21. The plane ditched in the sea and Ronnie launched the dinghy and saved the rest of the crew. Minnie met Derek Alloway, now 93, the last surviving RAF veteran of the battle, and he told her about his memories of Ronnie. Derek said that Ronnie was shaken up and had a health problem after the battle.

Minnie visited the RAF Museum at Hendon, where she was shown an issue of the Air Ministry Bulletin which announced the award of Ronnie's medal and included an interview with him in which he said that his mother was Scottish and his father a Yorkshireman, a wool buyer, and that his family had moved around quite a lot, and that when he left school he went to work as a clerk at his father's wool business. Minnie was also shown a Sunday Times report on the battle quoting Ronnie as praising the pilot, and an interview with his mother from the Stockton Weekly Herald from Dec 1939, with a photo of Ronnie and his mother.

Ronnie's RAF service record showed that he lived in Stockton on Tees, that he received the Distinguished Flying Medal in March 1940 and that he was discharged from the RAF Hospital in Matlock, Derbyshire. His diagnosis was "anxiety state". The record also showed that he was back in hospital in Dec 1940 at Littleport, and was then commissioned as a Pilot Officer in Nov 1943 and promoted to Flying Officer in Jun 1944. Minnie was shown a photograph of Ronnie in uniform in Sep 1944 at his wedding to Anne Wilshaw, the daughter of Sir Edward Wilshaw, the chairman of Cable and Wireless. Ronnie is not wearing his DFM in the picture.


Minnie went to Stockton on Tees Central Library and ordered the marriage certificate for Ronnie's parents, Charles Edmund Driver and Mary Jessie Kelly, who got married in Oct-Dec 1936 when Ronnie was about 15.

While waiting for the certificate to arrive, Minnie looked at the 1891 census entry for Charles E Driver age 11 with his family. She traced his younger sister Maud forwards, finding Maud's marriage to a Fred Thistlethwaite when Maud was 18 and Fred 32. On the 1911 census Fred and Maud have two children, John 5 and Dorothy 2. Dorothy Thistlethwaite married Nathaniel Cranson in 1928, and they had several children, including Jean Eileen Cranson, known as Eileen, who married a Mr Wiper in 1950. Minnie found Jean E Wiper, age 84, on the electoral roll and in the phone directory, and phoned her. She then went to meet her and heard about her memories of Minnie's grandparents Charles and Jessie. Eileen gave her a photo of Fred and Maud and their children.

Charles and Jessie's marriage certificate dated 19 Oct 1936 showed that they were both widowed and gave their residence as 37 Southfield Road, Middlesbrough. Minnie visited Middlesbrough Central Library and saw the certificate for Mary Jessie's first marriage, to Robert Campbell Kelly, Apr 18 1917, and the death certificate for Robert, who died in France on the 29th Nov 1918 age 26. She also saw the certificate for the marriage of Charles Edmund Driver, 21, to Ada Wood Stancliffe, age 30, on the 15th May 1901. The certificate for the death of Ada on the 12th Dec 1932 showed the informant to be her son Leslie S Driver. Leslie's marriage certificate showed that he was an actor.

Minnie was shown a programme from the Stockport Hippodrome from 1944 when Leslie was appearing in repertory, using his stage name of Leslie Stancliffe. She visited the Stockport Plaza to find out about Leslie's theatrical career. He was especially known for performing in the play Peg O' My Heart, and there was a newspaper report with a photo of him which said that he also appeared in silent films. Minnie also saw a photo of Leslie's wife Grace who was also an entertainer (stage name Billie Mackay). An In Memoriam notice from the newspaper The Stage showed that Leslie died Mar 6th 1947 leaving a daughter Jean. One of the theatre programmes showed that Jean appeared in a play with Leslie when she was a child, using the stage name Jean Stancliffe. Minnie spoke to Jean Driver on the phone. Jean said that she knew that Leslie had a half-brother but that Leslie and Ronnie never met each other, although she met Ronnie after her father's death. Jean sent Minnie a photo of Charles and Jessie.

[anne fraser]

I realy enjoyed it too. I took to Minnie, she was very genuine to everyone she met.

[Piwacket]

I enjoyed it too. She was very natural and the whole programme seemed much more down to earth and natural too. Almost the sort of background that one of us may be researching so one could get close to the circumstances as they unfolded.

[Shona]

Interesting history. A lot of children born to unmarried parents, as well as second marriages.

Before moving on to the genealogy, I have a (Scottish) gripe. Every time Minnie saw the name Jessie on a cert, she assumed it was Jessica. Noooooooooooo! Jess or Jessie is Jane or Janet. OK - got that off my chest. Moving on...

Minnie's father, Charles Ronald Kelley, was born in Swansea in Jan/Feb/March 1921. Mother's maiden name was McGregor.

Mary Jessie Maggie McGregor married Robert Campbell Kelley in Liverpool on 15 April 1917. She was 22 and he was 24 - a ship's steward. Her father was Gregor McGregor. One of the witnesses was Nellie McGregor.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2197/englb5617_283-sim-3-10_m_00123/1931830?backurl=http%253a%252f%252fsearch.ancestry .co.uk%252fcgi-bin%252fsse.dll%253fdb%253dliverpoolcoemarriages%2 526so%253d2%2526pcat%253d34%2526rank%253d1%2526new %253d1%2526MSAV%253d1%2526msT%253d1%2526gss%253dan gs-c%2526gsfn%253dGregor%2526gsfn_x%253dNN%2526gsln%2 53dMcgregor%2526gsln_x%253dNN%2526cpxt%253d1%2526c atBucket%253drstp%2526uidh%253dfpy%2526cp%253d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

1901 census - Toxteth Park, Liverpool
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7814/LANRG13_3431_3432-0192/20436935?backurl=http%253a%252f%252fsearch.ancestr y.co.uk%252fcgi-bin%252fsse.dll%253findiv%253d1%2526db%253duki1901 %2526rank%253d1%2526new%253d1%2526MSAV%253d1%2526m sT%253d1%2526gss%253dangs-d%2526gsfn%253dGregor%2526gsfn_x%253dNN%2526gsln%2 53dMcgregor%2526gsln_x%253dNN%2526cpxt%253d1%2526c atBucket%253drstp%2526uidh%253dfpy%2526cp%253d11%2 526pcat%253d35%2526fh%253d0%2526h%253d20436935%252 6recoff%253d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord
Gregor McGregor, head, 37, soft stone mason, born Scotland
Margaret McGregor, wife, 36, born Scotland
Annie Bella McGregor, dau, 10, born Lancs, Liverpool
Mary McGregor, dau, 6, born Scotland
Helen McGregor, dau, 4, born Scotland
Jennie McGregor, dau, born Lancs, Liverpool

Helen must be Nellie who witnesses her sister's marriage.

When Annabella (Annie Bella on the 1901 census) was born in 1891 (30 Oct, baptised 20 Nov, Liverpool St Peter's), the family were living in Northumberland Street, Liverpool. Dad was working as a porter.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2196/engl56170_283-pet-2-91_m_00068/3006796?backurl=http%253a%252f%252fsearch.ancestry .co.uk%252fcgi-bin%252fsse.dll%253findiv%253d1%2526db%253dliverpo olcoebaptisms%2526rank%253d1%2526new%253d1%2526MSA V%253d1%2526msT%253d1%2526gss%253dangs-d%2526gsfn%253dGregor%2526gsfn_x%253dNN%2526gsln%2 53dMcgregor%2526gsln_x%253dNN%2526cpxt%253d1%2526c atBucket%253drstp%2526uidh%253dfpy%2526cp%253d11%2 526pcat%253d34%2526fh%253d1%2526h%253d3006796%2526 recoff%253d10%252b32%252b43%252b44&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

1891 - Toxteth
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/6598/LANRG12_2926_2928-0387/14647022?backurl=http%253a%252f%252fsearch.ancestr y.co.uk%252fcgi-bin%252fsse.dll%253fdb%253duki1891%2526so%253d2%25 26pcat%253d35%2526rank%253d1%2526new%253d1%2526MSA V%253d1%2526msT%253d1%2526gss%253dangs-c%2526gsfn%253dGregor%2526gsfn_x%253dNN%2526gsln%2 53dMcgregor%2526gsln_x%253dNN%2526cpxt%253d1%2526c atBucket%253drstp%2526uidh%253dfpy%2526cp%253d11&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
Gregor McGregor, head, 29, head barman, born Leith
Margaret McGregor, wife, 26, born Glasgow

1888 - Toxteth Park

Gregor McGregor married Margaret Ward - July/Aug/Sept 1888

[kiterunner]

Before moving on to the genealogy, I have a (Scottish) gripe. Every time Minnie saw the name Jessie on a cert, she assumed it was Jessica. Noooooooooooo! Jess or Jessie is Jane or Janet. OK - got that off my chest. Moving on...



Yes, I noticed that too. My half-great-uncle named his daughter Jessie after his Scottish mother, and on the birth certificate of one of her (the daughter's) children, her name is written as Jessica by the registrar who must have made the same assumption.

[kiterunner]

That play "Peg o' My Heart" which Leslie appeared in - I'm sure I spent some time a while back reading mentions of someone else appearing in a production of it, I think in Australia in which case it would probably have been on the Trove website. But I can't remember why I was reading about it! Whoever was I looking up?

[kiterunner]

That play "Peg o' My Heart" which Leslie appeared in - I'm sure I spent some time a while back reading mentions of someone else appearing in a production of it, I think in Australia in which case it would probably have been on the Trove website. But I can't remember why I was reading about it! Whoever was I looking up?

Ah, it was on this thread from a couple of years ago (post #30):
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/Forum/showthread.php?t=9095&page=3

[kiterunner]

Ooh!
http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person/mp97022/charles-ronald-driver

And on the list where I found that, Minnie Driver is the next but one person listed!
http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/sitA-Z/sitd.php

[kiterunner]

This from Trove:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/page/630791

[kiterunner]

Here are Charles, Ada and Leslie in 1911:
ancestry 1911 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_18653_0563_03/21776324?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3d1911England%252c% 26rank%3d0%26gsfn%3dleslie%26gsln%3ddriver%26sx%3d %26gs1co%3d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1%252c% 2b%26year%3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d0%26sbor%3d%26uf r%3d0%26wp%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26srchb %3dr%26prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dan gs-d%26pcat%3d35%26fh%3d12%26h%3d21776324%26recoff%3d %26fsk%3dCIAACTAAhrkA%26bsk%3d%26pgoff%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord)
4 Preston Road, South Yardley, Birmingham , 6 rooms
Charles Edmund Driver Head 31 Married Manager, Hide & Skin Market Devonshire Devonport
Ada Wood Driver Wife 40 Married 9 years 2 children, 1 living, 1 dead Yorkshire Bradford
Leslie Stancliffe Driver Son 2 Warwickshire Birmingham.

[Shona]

Feel I have to show my hand.

A long time ago, I edited an interview with Minnie. From memory, her father's wife found out about Minnie's mum and her daughters. Wife divorced Ronnie. Minnie's mum married another chap. Minnie hated step-dad. Minnie's mum and step-dad sent angry girl (Minnie) to boarding school. And I'm sure her father married at least one more time.

In the interview, she mentioned her Welsh (Dad?), Scottish (the McGegors?), Italian and French ancestry.

[Guinevere]

I wasn't sure what to make of the programme. She has half siblings who she is obviously not in touch with, which I think is sad. But it must have felt very awkward for them to see the programme.

[Langley Vale Sue]

They were my thoughts Gwynne.

If she knew her father had been married or was still married, surely she must have wondered about half siblings at some point.

I think if I'd have had a photo and description of my Dad in a published book I would have tried to find out more. Maybe that's just my nosy mind though. ;)

[Shona]

Newspaper report about Ronnie Driver's death:

He was the Swansea boy from a terrace house whose charm and entrepreneurial skills led him to become a major figure in the financial markets, dispensing advice to the Queen and Queen Mother and giving a job on his board to Prince Michael of Kent.

But polo patron and friend of the stars Ronnie Driver's greatest success was his family, which included his Oscar-nominated actress daughter Minnie.
And last week Minnie broke off from filming in Scotland to rush to her father's side in London after he suffered a massive heart attack.

Minnie and her elder sister, Kate, 40, whose existence Ronnie, 87, managed to keep from his first wife for years, were all able to say a last goodbye to Driver before he died.

Also at the former insurance mogul's bedside at the Chelsea and Westminster Hospital were Minnie's and Kate's mother, Gaynor Millington, his widow Misty, their son Charles, 24, and his eldest daughter, Susan, by his first wife, Annie.

Misty, who has cared for him since he suffered a stroke nearly four years ago, tells me: 'We are all great friends. Everyone supports each other in the family. Ronnie wanted his ashes to be scattered on the polo field next to his house in Barbados.'

Says a pal: 'He was one of those rare people of whom you can truly say: "They don't make them like that any more." He was one of the most charismatic, generous and charitable people you could meet.'

The well-connected Driver's funeral at St Paul's, Knightsbridge, this week is likely to be packed with A-list names. Sir Michael Caine and the Duchess of York were both chums.

Unconventional Ronnie installed former model Gaynor in a Mayfair apartment and divided his time between her and his then wife, who was unaware of the situation.

The scales dropped from her eyes, however, when an acquaintance at a Windsor polo match remarked to her daughter, Susan: 'How delightful to see the family all together - you and your half-sisters.'

Not surprisingly, Annie divorced him soon afterwards, but Gaynor and Driver never married.

Ronnie's company, London United Investments, crashed in the Nineties with debts of £35 million because of a surge of insurance claims for asbestosis.

[Guinevere]

Thanks for that, Shona. It answers some questions.

[Just Gillian]

I was surprised that Minnie could see her father's service records as I understood such records were only released to the next of kin and that would, presumably, have been Susan, eldest daughter of his first marriage? I was a bit uncomfortable with the details of her father's time in psychiatric hospitals being broadcast to the nation, given that he died so recently and has living relatives. I wonder if the BBC had to obtain consent from his other family?

I enjoyed it, and liked Minnie Driver, but prefer the ones which do not concentrate on the military stories.

[Shona]

I was surprised that Minnie could see her father's service records as I understood such records were only released to the next of kin and that would, presumably, have been Susan, eldest daughter of his first marriage? I was a bit uncomfortable with the details of her father's time in psychiatric hospitals being broadcast to the nation, given that he died so recently and has living relatives. I wonder if the BBC had to obtain consent from his other family?

I enjoyed it, and liked Minnie Driver, but prefer the ones which do not concentrate on the military stories.

Good points, Gillian. Ronnie married again. Perhaps his widow gave permission.

[Just Gillian]

Oh yes, Shona - I'd forgotten that he was married and that his widow would therefore have been his next of kin.

[Shona]

Gregor and Margaret McGregor had a son named George Alexander McGregor. Baptised in Liverpool in 1904. Father's occupation - stonemason.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2196/englb5617_283-bap-2-7_m_00101/1868895?backurl=http%253a%252f%252fsearch.ancestry .co.uk%252fcgi-bin%252fsse.dll%253findiv%253d1%2526db%253dliverpo olcoebaptisms%2526rank%253d1%2526new%253d1%2526MSA V%253d1%2526msT%253d1%2526gss%253dangs-d%2526gsfn%253dGregor%2526gsfn_x%253dNN%2526gsln%2 53dMcgregor%2526gsln_x%253dNN%2526cpxt%253d1%2526c atBucket%253drstp%2526uidh%253dfpy%2526cp%253d11%2 526pcat%253d34%2526fh%253d1%2526h%253d3006796%2526 recoff%253d10%252b32%252b43%252b44&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[Nell]

I found this episode very enthralling, although the ground (WW2, flying heroism, illigitimacy, adultery etc has all been covered before). Minnie came across as very natural, no blubbing or "OMG!" every 2 minutes. It was lovely that she was so thrilled to get a photo of her grandfather, a moment I'm sure most family historians could empathise with. The best of this current series so far.

[Ann from Sussex]

I found this episode very enthralling, although the ground (WW2, flying heroism, illigitimacy, adultery etc has all been covered before). Minnie came across as very natural, no blubbing or "OMG!" every 2 minutes. It was lovely that she was so thrilled to get a photo of her grandfather, a moment I'm sure most family historians could empathise with. The best of this current series so far.

I feel the same, even though I was having a little moan before the programme about it being another WW2 one which usually spells "boring" to me. Somehow it was different from other war episodes , perhaps because it was less about battles and more about the men involved and I did like Minnie. She came across as a really nice person with a very infectious laugh. She did shed a little tear over what she learned about her father but, given that it WAS her father whom she clearly loved dearly,that was natural. It must be very harrowing to find out things that you didn't know about a parent.

[Merry]

I just watched the programme on iPlayer.

I really enjoyed it. Minnie seemed lovely.

I did notice Minnie's father had a full sister as well as a half brother, but I don't think they mentioned her. His sister died in 1930 when Ronnie was about 9.

I too remember seeing photos of my paternal grandparents for the first time and also learning more about my father via his service records just like Minnie did, which made it especially interesting for me.