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View Full Version : Who Do You Think You Are - Nigel Havers 31st Jul


kiterunner
30-07-13, 22:42
On BBC1 at 9 p.m., and repeated Thursday 10:35 p.m., also on BBC1.

Shona
31-07-13, 10:15
Good! It will make up for the dire drivel on Family Tree.

Piwacket
31-07-13, 11:51
Looking forward to it !

kiterunner
31-07-13, 22:04
Episode Synopsis

Nigel Havers was born in 1951. He has homes in London and Wiltshire and his wife's name is Georgiana. His parents were Sir Michael Havers, lawyer, MP, Attorney General and then Lord Chancellor, and Carol Lay. Sir Michael died over 20 years ago. Nigel's grandfather was Sir Cecil Robert Havers, the judge who sentenced Ruth Ellis to hang.

Nigel went to visit his father's older brother Tony Havers who is about 95 years old and lives in Hampshire. Tony had a family tree to show Nigel. Cecil Havers' parents were Daniel Havers and Agnes Sophia Buckingham. Agnes' parents were George S Buckingham and Elizabeth Hamblion, a couple who had 17 children, 14 of whom survived infancy. Tony showed Nigel a photo of Salisbury House, Unthank Road, Norwich, where the Buckingham family lived.
Nigel ordered a copy of Elizabeth Hamblion's birth certificate and found that she was born in Colchester on the 8th April 1841. Her parents were Henry Hamblion and Elizabeth Ann Ransome. Henry's occupation on the birth certificate was Driver. Nigel looked at the 1841 census which showed Henry's occupation as Hackney Master. There was also an older daughter Rosina age 2.

Nigel visited Colchester to find out about cab drivers in the 19th century. He was shown the Essex Standard from 1844 which had an advertisement for H & J Hamblion, who hired out horses and various carriages. J was Henry's brother Jeremiah Hamblion. Nigel was also shown a news report from the Ipswich Journal about a robbery on Mile End Road in London on one of Henry's drivers, and another report about a man who hired a horse and gig from the Hamblions, lied about where he was going, and failed to return the horse and gig.

Nigel was shown the minute book of the Colchester Association from 1846 stating that Henry Hamblion had joined as a new subscriber. His brother Jeremiah joined two years later. The association was an anti-crime organisation for local businesses and was known as "The Thieves".
Nigel was then shown a newspaper announcement of the dissolution of the Hamblions' partnership in 1850. This may have been due to Jeremiah's court appearances charged with "furious driving" and "wilful damage". Nigel also visited the street where Henry's livery stables used to stand, and a local business historian showed him the 1851 census entry where Henry, age 37, is the Innkeeper of the Brewers' Arms, with 12-year-old daughter Rosanna's occupation shown as Barmaid, although this is crossed out.

In 1864 Henry took over a business of "Railway and General Carrying", i.e transporting goods. But two years later he voluntarily had himself declared bankrupt, due to losses in his own business, and to him standing surety for his son-in-law John F Hum, builder, Rosina's husband. There was a newspaper report of John F Hum being imprisoned for debt, and a report from March 1867 that Henry Hamblion's creditors received £8,460.
The Essex Standard from Feb 1871 reported that the Provident Asylum Society, a kind of self-help insurance society for local business people, had voted to admit Henry Hamblion "on the Foundation" and commiserated on his "present affliction". They provided accommodation for him and his wife in the Society's house which was much better than the workhouse.

Nigel was shown Henry's death certificate - he died on the 17th Mar 1871 of a diseased heart,age 56. Henry's widow Elizabeth continued to live in the PAS home until her death in 1892 at the age of 79. Nigel visited the grave of Henry and Elizabeth in Colchester cemetery.
The 1881 census shows Elizabeth jr as the wife of George S Buckingham, shoe manufacturer employing 50 men.

Nigel then turned to his mother Carol's family. He went to Hertfordshire to see his mother's sister Manda (Amanda) Lay who gave him some information about the family. His grandfather was Stuart Charles Lay who owned a laundry, and his grandmother was Irene Wackett. Irene's mother was Elizabeth Couch who was born in Cornwall, the daughter of David Couch and his wife Maria Caroline. David was a miller and he and his twin brother Jonathan lived at Couch's Mill.

The 1851 census shows David and Jonathan both unmarried and age 28 living with their father John Couch[B], the miller, age 62, and his wife [B]Elizabeth. Nigel was told that David took over the mill from John and it then went to Jonathan. The mill was on the Boconnoc Estate, which was owned by the Fortescue family. Nigel went to visit the old mill with a local historian, who showed him a newspaper report from the Cornwall Gazette stating that an affiliation order was made against David Couch by Ann Bryant (one of the Couch family's servants on the 1851 census) and he was ordered to pay 2s 6d per week. This was maintenance for Ann's illegitimate child, of whom David was the father. Nigel was shown the death certificate for Eleanor Couch Bryant age 1 year, who died 15 Mar 1854 of inflammation of the chest.

Nigel was also shown the 1862 marriage certificate of David Couch and Maria Caroline Collins, a widow. The couple had four children, David Frederick, Elizabeth, Georgina Mary and a second Georgina Mary after the first one died age 21 months from a scalding accident. Nigel was shown the 1871 census entry for the family including John Collins, son in law (i.e. stepson).

The local historian then showed Nigel an entry in the Estate Steward's Diary relating to the death of David Couch in 1871 at the age of 48. This was the reason why Jonathan took over the mill. Maria left the area with her children.

Nigel visited the parish graveyard near the mill and saw John Couch's gravestone and David Couch's gravestone, which also had the name of his daughter Georgina Mary on it.

Margaret in Burton
31-07-13, 22:12
Enjoyed it.

He assumed do as in ditto meant daughter on the 1841 census but overall enjoyable.

borobabs
31-07-13, 22:43
Yes I to enjoyed that one even if I was nodding off and that wasnt through the program lol

ElizabethHerts
31-07-13, 22:51
After David Couch died, his widow became a postmistress in Hertfordshire:

1881 Census
COUCH, Georgina M
HERTFORD, Hertfordshire
RG11 piece 1424 folio 90 page 16
Post Office, Epping Green, Little Berkhampstead
COUCH, Maria Caroline Head Widow F 50 1831 Post Office Mistress (C S Off) Devon
COUCH, Elizabeth C Daughter Single F 16 1865 Cornwall
COUCH, Georgina M Daughter Single F 11 1870 Scholar Cornwall

She was still alive in 1901, living with Georgina and her family.
1901 Census
JEFFRIES, Georgina M
CROYDON, Surrey
RG13 piece 643 folio 66 page 41
237, London Road, Croydon
Georgina married Thomas Jeffries.

Maria is still alive also in 1911 and still with Georgina, who is widowed:

RG number: RG14
Piece: 3347
Reference: RG14PN3347 RG78PN126 RD39 SD3 ED25 SN10
Registration District: Croydon
Sub District: West Croydon
Enumeration District: 25
Parish: Croydon
Address: Linden Lodge 237 London Road Thornton Heath Surrey
County: Surrey


Maria Caroline Couch died in 1913, aged 89.

Olde Crone
31-07-13, 22:51
Slightly disappointed and a bit irritated (again!) that Nigel Havers didn't know the first thing about genealogy. Also disappointed that we didn't find out how the family went from humble to posh in one generation.

(Was Nigel wearing a toupee or is he just a hair fiddler? He kept clutching his hair in an odd way).

OC

Margaret in Burton
31-07-13, 22:54
Slightly disappointed and a bit irritated (again!) that Nigel Havers didn't know the first thing about genealogy. Also disappointed that we didn't find out how the family went from humble to posh in one generation.

(Was Nigel wearing a toupee or is he just a hair fiddler? He kept clutching his hair in an odd way).

OC

I think the posh was the Havers side which they didn't touch on. I think a few of the women made lucky marriages.

ElizabethHerts
31-07-13, 22:56
Robert M O Havers married Carol E Lay in Q3 1949 in London City.

Name: LAY, Carol E was born in Q1 of 1929 in Edmonton District. Her mother's maiden name was Wackett, as mentioned.

Stuart C Lay married Irene Wackett Q3 1924 St Giles London.

kiterunner
31-07-13, 23:00
Post #4 of this thread now has the episode synopsis filled in.

kiterunner
31-07-13, 23:04
This is Daniel Havers and family on the 1891 census. Daniel is a solicitor.
1891 census ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/6598/NFKRG12_1530_1532-0231/11105484?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1891%26db%3d%26so%3d2%26ra nk%3d0%26gsfn%3dcecil%26gsln%3dhavers%26sx%3d%26gs 1co%3d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1%252c%2b%26 year%3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d0%26sbor%3d%26ufr%3d0 %26wp%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26srchb%3dr% 26prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-b&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

ElizabethHerts
31-07-13, 23:06
Irene Wackett was born in 1904 Q4 in Edmonton district.
In 1911 she is on the 1911 census with her parents, Eli and Carrie Wackett. This is the Elizabeth Caroline or Caroline Couch who was born in 1865.

1911 Census
WACKETT, Irene
EDMONTON, Middlesex
Reference RG14PN7226 RG78PN353 RD132 SD1 ED34 SN208

ElizabethHerts
31-07-13, 23:10
Eli Wackett and Elizabeth Caroline Maria Couch married in Q4 1883 in Hertford district.

For those of you with FMP here are the banns:
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/records/parish-records/view-image/M/74044078

kiterunner
31-07-13, 23:10
And here is Daniel Havers in 1881 at Salisbury House, Unthank's Road, Norwich:
1881 census ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/NFKRG11_1951_1955-0017/16473124?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1881%26db%3d%26so%3d2%26ra nk%3d0%26gsfn%3ddan*%26gsln%3dhavers%26sx%3d%26gs1 co%3d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1%252c%2b%26y ear%3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d0%26sbor%3d%26ufr%3d0% 26wp%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26srchb%3dr%2 6prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-c&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=NFKRG11_195 1_1955-0018)

Daniel is age 20, a solicitor's articled clerk, and his father is Charles Havers, 59, widower, Ironmonger employing 4 men and 2 apprentices.

ElizabethHerts
31-07-13, 23:11
The Wacketts are at Edmonton in 1891 and have two children, Sydney and Maude.

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/CensusHouseholdSearchServlet?censusYear=1891&uir=e1a6bc4e9bd0a8e3a1ca4db22ef7feca&lineNo=18&lineNoSuffix=0&UIRStamp=44f154e1e56a09669d830a5a1fec373d2ca9dde4a d2d0f01a778baeef68c7536c61fbf2cba41a078&pagetype=6

ElizabethHerts
31-07-13, 23:13
The Wacketts in 1901:

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/CensusHouseholdSearchServlet?censusYear=1901&uir=153dc79de223e0fa&lineNo=27&lineNoSuffix=0&UIRStamp=a767aac4902e3e266d394f0be1e11e37f627a5a85 aba707dbfb7678d6c1a53eefeb959b7d4642fcb&pagetype=6

Eli is a hay and straw salesman. He was a hay salesman in 1891.

kiterunner
31-07-13, 23:13
The Havers family in 1871:
1871 census ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/NFKRG10_1815_1817-0470/1824651?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1871%26db%3d%26so%3d2%26ra nk%3d0%26gsfn%3ddan*%26gsln%3dhavers%26sx%3d%26gs1 co%3d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1%252c%2b%26y ear%3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d0%26sbor%3d%26ufr%3d0% 26wp%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26srchb%3dr%2 6prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-c&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=NFKRG10_181 5_1817-0469)

and 1861:
1861 census ancestry (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/NFKRG9_1219_1223-0212/17362281?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1861%26db%3d%26so%3d2%26ra nk%3d0%26gsfn%3ddan*%26gsln%3dhavers%26sx%3d%26gs1 co%3d1%252cAll%2bCountries%26gs1pl%3d1%252c%2b%26y ear%3d%26yearend%3d%26sbo%3d0%26sbor%3d%26ufr%3d0% 26wp%3d4%253b_80000002%253b_80000003%26srchb%3dr%2 6prox%3d1%26ti%3d5538%26ti.si%3d0%26gss%3dangs-c&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

ElizabethHerts
31-07-13, 23:15
Eli Wackett was the son of George Abraham Wackett, a labourer, and his wife, Sarah. Eli was baptised on 19 December 1858 at Little Berkhamstead, Herts.

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/records/parish-records/details/B/71364895?iSnV=true&sn=WACKETT&fns=ELI&snNXF=true&fnNXF=true&rC=6&locale=en

ElizabethHerts
31-07-13, 23:17
The Wackett family in 1861:

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/CensusHouseholdSearchServlet?censusYear=1861&uir=ddea91b7c3d90b2b85f9eb4a84585dd9&lineNo=17&lineNoSuffix=0&UIRStamp=6ce1edb52ebf7e28772dd821ad7a915feaa199ba4 67b108ddc93f2c011c72ffba01aa50f8414e6dc&pagetype=6

Eli's father is given as Abraham, and he was born in Marylebone, London. He is a publican and sawyer.

ElizabethHerts
31-07-13, 23:23
This looks like the young George with his family in 1841:

http://www.findmypast.co.uk/CensusHouseholdSearchServlet?censusYear=1841&uir=dee56d7309f117b382a3dc0929a78304&lineNo=21&lineNoSuffix=0&UIRStamp=d87b240cec68c68596de603eaed6256feea0b491d b03610a58ec0160d6411bc75e5f8418f19b5123&pagetype=6#

However, it says he is born in county.

kiterunner
31-07-13, 23:24
Have they ever had an episode with so many old newspaper extracts in it before?

ElizabethHerts
31-07-13, 23:24
Off to bed now, I'll look in the morning to see what has been added.

Olde Crone
31-07-13, 23:30
Oh, a minor point but it's niggling me.

Georgina died of scalding caused by a "white pot" which the archivist said was probably the pot they made clotted cream in. I don't think this is correct. I've lived in Cornwall for over 40 years and never heard a cream pan called a white pot, it's called a cream pan! (Wide and shallow). Also, the pot never gets above blood heat, so unlikely to cause a scald of any sort, let alone a serious one.

Wasn't one of the other sons a blacksmith? Blacksmiths were often Whitesmiths too, particularly in Cornwall and I wondered whether the white pot was in fact molten tin and the child was in the smithy perhaps?

As I said, not important really but niggly!

EDIT - Seems there are two ways to make clotted cream (news to me!) and the other way involves scalding the cream, so maybe it was correct. Still never heard of a white pot though.

OC

kiterunner
31-07-13, 23:41
Also Nigel apparently assumed from the fact that the illegitimate child's name was Eleanor Couch Bryant that David Couch acknowledged her as his child and was involved with her upbringing and "must have been devastated" at her death. Maybe, maybe not.

Olde Crone
31-07-13, 23:45
If he acknowledged the child as his, you wonder why her mother had to take him to court for maintenance!

OC

Guinevere
01-08-13, 06:55
I enjoyed the programme, interesting to see the newspaper archives used as Kate said.

I like Nigel Havers. He seems typical of a lot of people who had never really questioned their heritage but were interested when they found things out. I wish my cousins felt the same way. *sighs loudly*

Shona
01-08-13, 08:44
Also Nigel apparently assumed from the fact that the illegitimate child's name was Eleanor Couch Bryant that David Couch acknowledged her as his child and was involved with her upbringing and "must have been devastated" at her death. Maybe, maybe not.

Too much emphasis was placed on Eleanor having Couch as a middle name. Wonder what happened to Eleanor's mother?

ElizabethHerts
01-08-13, 08:48
David Couch left a will:

Name: David Couch
Probate Date: 6 Sep 1871
Death Date: 17 May 1871
Death Place: Cornwall, England
Registry: Bodmin

His widow, Maria Caroline, was the sole executrix. Effects under £300.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1904/31874_222478-00146/1545736?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3dUKProbateCal%26ra nk%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dDavid%26gsln%3dCouch%26gsln_x%3dXO%26ui dh%3dxt1%26pcat%3d36%26fh%3d0%26h%3d1545736%26reco ff%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

ElizabethHerts
01-08-13, 08:51
Maria Caroline Couch also left a will:

Name: Maria Caroline Couch
Probate Date: 10 Jun 1914
Death Date: 29 Sep 1913
Death Place: Surrey, England
Registry: London, England

Probate was granted to Georgina Mary Jefferies, one of the daughters (not Nigel's line).

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1904/31874_222384-00456/1151830?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3findiv%3d1%26db%3dUKProbateCal%26ra nk%3d1%26new%3d1%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-d%26gsfn%3dMaria%26gsln%3dCouch%26gsln_x%3dXO%26ui dh%3dxt1%26pcat%3d36%26fh%3d3%26h%3d1151830%26reco ff%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnRecord

ElizabethHerts
01-08-13, 09:15
I was wondering what happened to the son of David and Maria Couch. Here is his birth, and he had an extra name:

Name: COUCH, David Charles Frederic
Registration district: Liskeard
County: Cornwall
Year of registration: 1862
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Volume no: 5C
Page no: 81


David seems to have used the name Frederick or Fred. He was Frederick on the 1871 with his family, and in 1881 he is Fred:

1881 Census
COUCH, Fred
UPPINGHAM, Rutlandhire
RG11 piece 3188 folio 29 page 8
High Street, Uppingham
He is an apprentice plumber with the Chapman family.

In 1891 he and Mum Maria are together:

1891 Census
COUCH, David C F
BILLERICAY, Essex
RG12 piece 1382 folio 47 page 49
6, Victoria Road, South Weald
David is 28, unmarried, and a plumber.

By 1901 David/Frederick is married to Gertrude and they have two children, David and Dorothy.

1901 Census
COUCH, David C F
BILLERICAY, Essex
RG13 piece 1666 folio 17 page 26
2, (Lynn Villas), Gresham Road, Shenfield

By 1911 there are two more children, Georgina and Sidney.

1911 Census
COUCH, David Charles Frederick
CHELMSFORD, Essex
Reference RG14PN10054 RG78PN529 RD194 SD2 ED9 SN437
Cherry Tree Inn Writtle Road Chelmsford

However, David is now an innkeeper.

David did not die until 1950:

Name: COUCH, David C F
Registration district: Brentwood
County: Essex
Year of registration: 1950
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at death: 87
Volume no: 4A
Page no: 426

His probate is on Ancestry.

Merry
01-08-13, 09:24
Too much emphasis was placed on Eleanor having Couch as a middle name. Wonder what happened to Eleanor's mother?

It looks as if she is still single and a house servant in St Veep, Cornwall in 1861. (spelled Briant this time)

Merry
01-08-13, 09:28
......and then she married Thomas Salt:


Marriages Jun 1865
Bryant Ann Liskeard 5c 111
Salt Thomas Liskeard 5c 111


They are together in 1871 with a couple of children.

Merry
01-08-13, 09:37
There seemed to be quite a few times in the program where Nigel was talking to himself about a finding, with no "expert" to put him right. Perhaps this is still less irritating than when there is an expert to hand, but they go along with the thoughts of the celebrity rather than suggesting other possible scenarios!

Shona
01-08-13, 10:25
......and then she married Thomas Salt:


Marriages Jun 1865
Bryant Ann Liskeard 5c 111
Salt Thomas Liskeard 5c 111


They are together in 1871 with a couple of children.

Thank you, Merry.

Shona
01-08-13, 10:58
As Nigel headed west puzzled by the fact that Jonathan Couch took over the running of the mill following David's short tenure, I wondered why Nigel hadn't checked whether David had died.

He also demonstrated a lack of interest in the fates of the other people on the 1851 census. Nor did we check the 1841 census.

Wish Nigel had reported back to Amanda and Tony, who seemed to have more interest in their respective family histories.

Shona
01-08-13, 11:05
Couch family in 1851

Hamlet of Couches Mill.

John Couch, head, 62, miller, b Boconnoc
Elizabeth Couch, wife, 65, b Boconnoc
David Couch, son, 28, millwright, b Boconnoc
Alfred Couch, son, 24, miller, b Boconnoc
Ann Cossentine, granddaughter, 8, b St Winnow
Ann Bryant, house servant, 17, b Pelynt
John Minords, mill servant, 17
William Symons, mill servant, 12

1841 census

Couches Mill, Boconnoc

John Couch, 50, miller
Elizabeth Couch, 50
Samuel Couch, 25, miller
Elford Couch, 14

Shona
01-08-13, 11:06
Ann Cossentine, the grand daughter mentioned in 1851, is the daughter of Jenny Couch and Charles Cossentine.

ElizabethHerts
01-08-13, 11:18
I wondered if this Couch family had any association with Arthur Quiller Couch, the author.

He was born in the same area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Quiller-Couch

Shona
01-08-13, 11:18
John Couch was baptised on 25 May 1788 in Boconnoc - son of Samuel and Margaret Couch.

John Couch married Elizabeth Boswathick on 13 June 1811 in Boconnoc.

John and Elizabeth's children:

- Jenny, bpt 8 Nov 1812
- Samuel, bpt 29 May 1814
- John, bpt 25 Jan 1816
- William, bpt 19 April 1818
- Walter, bpt 19 April 1920
- David, bpt 18 Dec 1822
- Jonathan, bpt 18 Dec 1822
- Elfrid, bpt 15 Jan 1827

Shona
01-08-13, 12:19
Looking at the Hamblion branch, Henry Hamblion's brother, Jeremiah, left an estate worth £1,000 in 1859. Henry left under £300. How much is that worth now?

Shona
01-08-13, 12:29
Oooh - Henry and Jeremiah's father, William Hamblion, challenged someone to a dual!

This story is attached to one of the public trees on Ancestry:

A Colchester colt-breaker, labouring under a grievance, depatched the following letter to John Bacon, innkeeper of the Nelson's Head:

'I, William Hamblion, forward this challenge to John Bacon, to meet him any time or place, with sword of with any other weapon that John Bacon may think fit to appoint. An imnediate answer is rewuired. To John Bacon, Nelson's Head.'

The magistrates took a lenient view of the offence and bound over the pugnacious law-breakers to keep the peace, but he, not producing the sureties demanded, was consigned to the lock-up to cool his heels and ire.

Now that would have been a nice story to tell the son of the former Attorney General!

Shona
01-08-13, 12:33
Ah - even more!

One of Henry Hamblion's sons was named William Henry Hamblion - he emigrated to Australia. Apparently, he has a long list of convictions in Australia from 1872 to 1906, including time in prison.

Off to investigate.

Shona
01-08-13, 15:06
William Henry Hamblion, alias Hamilton, alias Hamlin, also known as Deaf Harry, was quite the petty criminal. There are lots of mentions of him in the police gazettes, theft, forgery, wife abandonment. Interesting to see he is described in the police records as a groom and a cab driver.

This is his prison record complete with a photo.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1783/32098_223327-00283/4292?backurl=http%253a%252f%252fsearch.ancestry.co .uk%252fcgi-bin%252fsse.dll%253fdb%253dnswgaoldescriptionbooks %2526so%253d2%2526pcat%253dROOT_CATEGORY%2526rank% 253d1%2526new%253d1%2526MSAV%253d1%2526msT%253d1%2 526gss%253dangs-g%2526gsfn_x%253dNN%2526gsln%253dHamblion%2526gsln _x%253dNN%2526cpxt%253d1%2526catBucket%253drstp%25 26uidh%253dfpy%2526cp%253d2&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

Shona
01-08-13, 15:07
The wife he abandoned was Sarah Spittle. They married in Sydney in 1873.

Ann from Sussex
01-08-13, 15:58
It sounds as though they could get another episode out of the next generation back of Hamblions!

I enjoyed last night's programme. The information about coaches was interesting and so, to me, was the bit about bankruptcy. At around the time Henry was declared bankrupt so was my gt.gt.gt.gt.uncle who had a tailoring business just off Oxford Street. This was at the time when some tailors were beginning to use sewing machines, making things difficult for those who still worked by hand by under-cutting them. His son-in-law who was a licenced victualler had stood surety for him and within a few years he also was declared bankrupt. I have always thought the two business failures may well have been connected and now I think the situation was much like that with Henry Hamblion and his brother-in-law.

I did like Nigel Havers. I thought he brought just the right mix of seriousness and amusement to his discoveries...and he didn't go down the emotional route which is guaranteed to please me.

Shona
01-08-13, 17:12
Oooh - Henry and Jeremiah's father, William Hamblion, challenged someone to a dual!

This story is attached to one of the public trees on Ancestry:

A Colchester colt-breaker, labouring under a grievance, depatched the following letter to John Bacon, innkeeper of the Nelson's Head:

'I, William Hamblion, forward this challenge to John Bacon, to meet him any time or place, with sword of with any other weapon that John Bacon may think fit to appoint. An imnediate answer is rewuired. To John Bacon, Nelson's Head.'

The magistrates took a lenient view of the offence and bound over the pugnacious law-breakers to keep the peace, but he, not producing the sureties demanded, was consigned to the lock-up to cool his heels and ire.

Now that would have been a nice story to tell the son of the former Attorney General!

Found some more on the duel - which took place in 1840.

'With this alarming invitation, Mr. Bacon did not comply - nay more, when the defendant appeared in the taproom in propria persona with the ugly accompaniment of a tremendous bludgeon, he fled to his cellar, and there entrenched behind the XX and extra stout, he thought he was secure; when Mr. Hamblion proceeded to break in his windows, as easily as he broke in a colt, and after the evaporation of sundry big words departed...Mr. Hamblion pleaded the dishonour of a daughter as justification.'

Ann from Sussex
01-08-13, 17:28
That's wonderful Shona. I do love the language of newspaper reports at that time. "The evaporation of sundry big words...." Lol!

GenieDi
01-08-13, 18:17
I was in Colchester today and saw a lorry with Hamblion Transport on it. Did make me wonder if there is still any connection to the name.

Shona
01-08-13, 18:42
I was in Colchester today and saw a lorry with Hamblion Transport on it. Did make me wonder if there is still any connection to the name.

Hamblion is such an unusual name, the transport company must be linked in some way.

kiterunner
01-08-13, 19:17
As Nigel headed west puzzled by the fact that Jonathan Couch took over the running of the mill following David's short tenure, I wondered why Nigel hadn't checked whether David had died.

He also demonstrated a lack of interest in the fates of the other people on the 1851 census. Nor did we check the 1841 census.



I believe the programme makers will have decided the order of the research and the story, and of course there could be stuff that didn't make it into the finished programme. There are a couple of deleted scenes available for this episode, though they don't cover the points you mention:
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/footage/14431

Nell
02-08-13, 14:50
I like Nigel Havers but I found this episode, apart from the info about hackney coaches, rather dull. I also got annoyed with the "he must have been devasted" comments about his ancestors' dead daughters. If you have to be taken to court for maintaining a child that doesn't imply that you are greatly concerned about them, or indeed that you have any interest in them, other than regular payments.

I suppose if you are new to family history you mightn't be narked at others' lack of awareness or the jumping to conclusions based on flimsy evidence, to suit your own fancies.